Ofcourse the benefits would be huge, no denying it. My point is, to a supporter of the club, why would it be important enough to make him chose player x when he himself says player y is better as far as on field factors are concerned? Surely that doesn't matter to a fan and is something for the suits to think of?
Would you swap Martial for Messi?
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Ofcourse the benefits would be huge, no denying it. My point is, to a supporter of the club, why would it be important enough to make him chose player x when he himself says player y is better as far as on field factors are concerned? Surely that doesn't matter to a fan and is something for the suits to think of?
Messi for me is the best player ever. Therefore this is not even a contest, I would hypothetically also swap Ronaldo for Messi every day of the week and twice on Sunday. We'd probably win around 5-7 leagues in a row with him.
Tough one @Pexbo. Have thought about this for a good 5mins now and can't decide. Any other player but Messi and I would keep Martial for the very reasons you mentioned, nothing better than to see a talent as big as him develop at the club but Messi's Messi. Best player I have seen without doubt and he would instantly give us brilliance week in week out both in terms of entertainment and results and instantly propell us to not just PL winners but among the contenders for the CL.
I'll probably lean towards Messi, just about. I believe he'll be putting on a show even 5yrs from now as the best playmaker on the planet. Would absolutely suck to lose Martial but hey, it's Messi.
I'll probably lean towards Messi, just about. I believe he'll be putting on a show even 5yrs from now as the best playmaker on the planet. Would absolutely suck to lose Martial but hey, it's Messi.
No. Age is everything.
but feck me, that's tough.
but feck me, that's tough.
Ronaldo for Messi or do you mean Ronaldo or Martial?
If Ronaldo would still play for us (the current version), I'd also swap him for Messi anytime.
That's not what I'm saying though. Long run, if we're just concerned about on-the-pitch stuff, sure...I'd take my chances with Martial. However, there's really no denying that Messi would be better short-term and that, combined with the other areas where Messi would benefit the club, more than compensates.
Ah alright, that's a no brainer.
Manchester United, always building for the future never enjoy the fruits.
The fans somehow think that by playing TFM, Rashford, CBJ 3 years they'll become Keane/Rooney/Evra and we'll dominate the world winning 3 trebles in a row. The fans also thinks that by developing youth products the guy will give us his best years while being paid peanuts. We developed Ronaldo, look where he ended up retiring at
The fans somehow think that by playing TFM, Rashford, CBJ 3 years they'll become Keane/Rooney/Evra and we'll dominate the world winning 3 trebles in a row. The fans also thinks that by developing youth products the guy will give us his best years while being paid peanuts. We developed Ronaldo, look where he ended up retiring at
Being paid peanuts? We pay some of the best wages in the world. We made Ronaldo the best paid player in the world when he was here.
Alright, fair enough. I just don't think off field benefits should be much of a concern for a fan but can see what you mean, never mind.
1.Swap Martial for Messi
2.Dominate club football for next 5 years
3.In 5 years time buy next Martial
2.Dominate club football for next 5 years
3.In 5 years time buy next Martial
Fully agree. A fit Connor Wickham and Steven Fletcher are also far better player than that shit terrible idiot Martial.
Unforgivable post.
Yes; yes and yes.
I don't really understand why the OP is taking so much flak for this thread, especially as so much of it seems to be built on a kind of childish histrionics based on the mistaken assumption that a) anyone's actually comparing Martial to Messi on a pragmatic level, or b) that anyone is especially suggesting that it makes footballing or business sense to keep a relatively unproven Martial over signing the GOAT.
But I think it's a good thread, because it brings into focus what it is that individual fans want, as fans. Not as fans trying to project themselves into somehow being Ed Woodward and therefore caring intensely about the size of our brand in S. America, or having to suppress some kind of terrible paranoia about Martial one day leaving us, as if this has any bearing on the completely hypothetical scenario that @Pexbo brought up.
Surely there is a place of absolute, unfettered sentimentality in football, otherwise it's just another aspect of the big-business of entertainment, with all the amorality, corruption, and narcissistic money-generating pointlessness that big-business engenders.
So I get the arguments on both sides that either take sentimental joy in imagining Martial's development and flourishing at our club, or equally those that find more joy in the idea of seeing the best player of all time walk out in our colours, no matter whether it's for 1 season or 10. Why shouldn't we talk about this; surely the idea of what could or might happen is what keeps us all being fans, and this lets us look at what colour our imaginations as fans have. Nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I have no emotional attachment to Messi, so while swapping Martial for him would almost certainly be the right footballing and business decision, I don't need to care about that, being a random nobody, and can indulge my sentiment in this fantasy discussion, so I'd keep Martial.
But I think it's a good thread, because it brings into focus what it is that individual fans want, as fans. Not as fans trying to project themselves into somehow being Ed Woodward and therefore caring intensely about the size of our brand in S. America, or having to suppress some kind of terrible paranoia about Martial one day leaving us, as if this has any bearing on the completely hypothetical scenario that @Pexbo brought up.
Surely there is a place of absolute, unfettered sentimentality in football, otherwise it's just another aspect of the big-business of entertainment, with all the amorality, corruption, and narcissistic money-generating pointlessness that big-business engenders.
So I get the arguments on both sides that either take sentimental joy in imagining Martial's development and flourishing at our club, or equally those that find more joy in the idea of seeing the best player of all time walk out in our colours, no matter whether it's for 1 season or 10. Why shouldn't we talk about this; surely the idea of what could or might happen is what keeps us all being fans, and this lets us look at what colour our imaginations as fans have. Nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I have no emotional attachment to Messi, so while swapping Martial for him would almost certainly be the right footballing and business decision, I don't need to care about that, being a random nobody, and can indulge my sentiment in this fantasy discussion, so I'd keep Martial.
I certainly don't think it's as easy of a decision as some are making it out to be. I'm also trying to figure out the rationale behind some of the lesser opinions of Martial. What he did last year was nothing short of remarkable.
A million times yes.
Finally someone who actually gets exactly what this thread is about.
Is Messi better than Martial? Yes.
Will Martial reach a level close to Messi? Very unlikely.
Would we have more chance of success with Messi? Definitely.
Would I rather watch Martials story unfold here? Absolutely. I also think he'll win a lot for us so it's not even a choice of sacrificing success for youth development.
Some don't bother reading the OP to understand what's being said. Just read the title and go mental.
I'm not sure Messi would have the motivation to play like himself at another club for long. If Giggs or Scholes had been let go or sold I think they'd had retired much earlier. Also depending on his court case his move would make it seem like a financially motivated one.
If we throw away the possible real world scenarios and swap for a Messi that will be Messi like we know him then yes I wouldn't mind doing that when the other option is a player that possibly might be very good.
If we throw away the possible real world scenarios and swap for a Messi that will be Messi like we know him then yes I wouldn't mind doing that when the other option is a player that possibly might be very good.
And that is why the thread title is an important thing.
It's still a poor thread to be fair. Pointless beyond belief and I have also now heard that Welbeck is better than Martial. Enlightening stuff.
I love Martial but for me; it would have to be Messi.
Apart from the obvious reasons, signing Messi could also give us the best chance of signing anyone else we want to.
As I imagine many elite players would love to be able to have played alongside the greatest ever player.
Apart from the obvious reasons, signing Messi could also give us the best chance of signing anyone else we want to.
As I imagine many elite players would love to be able to have played alongside the greatest ever player.
It's Ronaldo, actually, Messi is №2. Nothing to do with their on the pitch performances, obviously, but Ronaldo's marketing activity is second to none
most RAWK thread ever on RedCafe
It's not a poor thread by any means. As you can see from the posts made here, quite a few people are on the "keep martial" side and a lot of the ones who pick Messi still mention it being a tough decision. Had it been everyone clearly on Messi's side without a thought, I'd have agreed with you but it's not the case at all.
I had no emotional attachment to Martial until a year back. Martial is not an academy product who has been with us since he was seven. He is not a local Manchester lad; heck, he is not even English. He is not someone that I have seen grow and become the player we saw last season playing for our U18's and U21's. He is a French player bought from Monaco for a sum that could eventually reach 80m Euros. I love him and always enjoy us investing in talented young players and nurturing them to their full potential, but the sentimentally and joy that is being talked about is a bit overblown, imo.
Would anyone miss a chance to replace Depay with a better, older player? He is also only 21 and wouldn't we like to see him further?
Van Persie was 29 when he came to us. I disliked the club he came from and his antics in general; however, that didn't prevent me from absolutely loving him and getting 'emotionally' attached to him. I never for a second thought, 'hey, here goes any chance of Danny becoming the player I always imagined he'll become'. In the same way, it won't take me a long time to become 'emotionally' attached to Messi either.
Now, if Rashford was the same age as Martial, and had the same experience before coming into our team, and banged 17 goals and got another 11 assists, I would reject the chance of swapping him with Benzema or may be even Lewandowski.
We'll have to agree to disagree; I think it's utterly pointless.
Not just having Messi for 3/4 years will bring more success then 15 years of Martial. It's also bragging rights.
Saying the greatest player of all time played for your club is a special thing.
Saying the greatest player of all time played for your club is a special thing.
I wouldn't have Messi here to be honest. He is already a well established player who is tainted (for lack of a better word) by one of the top clubs in the world. He has a huge Barca legacy which cannot be overwritten despite his achievements here because he has already played 75% of his career with them.
He is Barca through and through, and even if he decides to come to us for a new challenge or for the money, it won't feel real because for him it will not be a step up (it will be half a step down or a sideways move). For him it is not going to be a dream to play for us but a mere professional transaction. Even if he wins us a couple of leagues and a CL, that fact that he is a Barca legend who happened to play for us will be at the back of my mind and I can never claim him to be our own and revel in his success with us.
On the other hand, if Martial delivers on his early promise, he would be someone we have developed. MUFC would be the club that build him. It would be the same joy as watching Gary Neville and Ronaldo raise the CL trophy. We can claim him as our own and feel proud.
I know it all sounds like romantic BS but that's my two pence.
He is Barca through and through, and even if he decides to come to us for a new challenge or for the money, it won't feel real because for him it will not be a step up (it will be half a step down or a sideways move). For him it is not going to be a dream to play for us but a mere professional transaction. Even if he wins us a couple of leagues and a CL, that fact that he is a Barca legend who happened to play for us will be at the back of my mind and I can never claim him to be our own and revel in his success with us.
On the other hand, if Martial delivers on his early promise, he would be someone we have developed. MUFC would be the club that build him. It would be the same joy as watching Gary Neville and Ronaldo raise the CL trophy. We can claim him as our own and feel proud.
I know it all sounds like romantic BS but that's my two pence.
No.
Depends if you want short term success or if your in it for the long term, dont think Messi would have 4/5 years at his best in the premiership. maybe 2/3 plus we would also need to sign better players to play with him. would i love Messi at United Yes, would i sacrifice Martial to do it then answer would be no.
Messi. I love Martial. But, when players like Messi come along the debate becomes a non-contest.
He'd instantly elevate our title credentials and make us competitive & fearsome again. We also get to see Messi do it on a cold, wet, windy Tuesday night at Stoke, which for me is just as exciting as developing a youth prospect
He'd instantly elevate our title credentials and make us competitive & fearsome again. We also get to see Messi do it on a cold, wet, windy Tuesday night at Stoke, which for me is just as exciting as developing a youth prospect
Yes, of course....
I'd 100% take up this option. Whilst we are going with the assumption that Messi will decline over the next few years, it's also not a guarantee that Martial will spend his best years of football here(like Ronaldo) and honestly I'm frankly shocked that even a minority have said no.
One of the best players in the history of football who'll still give two-three years of top class service over a youngster with world class potential seems a no-brainer to me.
One of the best players in the history of football who'll still give two-three years of top class service over a youngster with world class potential seems a no-brainer to me.
For Messi? God, no!
For Messi, plus Neymar, plus Sourez, plus money... ... ... maybe!
For Messi, plus Neymar, plus Sourez, plus money... ... ... maybe!
I would swap Martial for Verratti, let alone Messi.
PS: The 10-15 years projections are complete nonsense.
PS: The 10-15 years projections are complete nonsense.
When I first read the title of the thread I was sure that this thread was just for a laugh. After reading the posts I can see some are quite serious.
I know that it is pretty normal to overrate our own players. That's ok. One loves one's own. But doubting even for a second the possibility of acquiring the greatest player of his generation, if not all time, at the peak of his powers in exchange of a young, promising player is foolish fanboyism.
I'd give up half of our starters for Messi and we'd still come out winning in the deal.
I know that it is pretty normal to overrate our own players. That's ok. One loves one's own. But doubting even for a second the possibility of acquiring the greatest player of his generation, if not all time, at the peak of his powers in exchange of a young, promising player is foolish fanboyism.
I'd give up half of our starters for Messi and we'd still come out winning in the deal.
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