Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Eric7C]

Again, a lot of people are looking at short term solutions rather than looking to the long term. The last match against Newcastle I had the chance to watch, and tactically it wasn't bad. From what I could see, the players were letting the team down not the manager. And, the slow play is causing a problem also. Remember, the change that should have happened 6 years ago, is happening now! Get behind a manager who is a legend, has the traditions of the club in his blood and let him get on with it. He should be given 3 years at least.

So the players are letting the team down and not the manager. And slow play is causing a problem also?

The slow play that Ole can't coach these tw*ts out of?

 

[Gandalf]

I have stated previously that we should at least give Ole this full season and then make a decision in May on whether it is working or if change is needed. I don't think sentiment plays a part in that, it needs to be a fact based decision based on all aspects of his performance in the role and a consideration of what alternatives are available and if we think they can improve us. Ole has by no means been given a fair shot and is being prematurely judged in some part due to a press that loves to kick us when we are down and due to the selective memory of those who seem to think we were promised a contending team this year.

In the summer the club and Ole made clear that short term fixes had failed and a longer term plan was needed, stripping the squad of overpaid and underperforming veterans, giving opportunities to youth players to see what they had and reshaping the team over several transfer windows. The message was clear that we would probably go backwards before things improved and considering we were a 6th place team what exactly were people expecting? If nothing else I would say this in defence of Ole. If you are told you have a couple of years to build a winning team and you make your decisions on that basis it is ridiculous to then move the goalposts less than a quarter of the way into the season and say we need to be competing right now. I imagine the decisions he made would have been different if he knew that the mob would start baying for blood as soon as things got tough and he would have made the same short term decisions that have hamstrung us for 6 years.

I don't think last season has much bearing on anything as most of it was spent in a caretaker role and even when that tag was removed we were a couple of months away from the end of the season and with no opportunity to change the squad so for me the real assessment began with this summer. To that end I don't really credit Ole all that much for the initial success nor do I blame him for the team running out of gas.

I was happy with the job done is the summer although like 99% of posters and Ole himself I felt we needed a couple more players to replace what we lost. The style of play was evident, the new signings all look like money well spent and the first XI at least looked capable of doing a job and that was backed up by the performances in the opening couple of games when we looked more solid at the back and dangerous going forward. Losing Martial and Shaw impacted us significantly and it has been a pretty dire few weeks since then as the lack of depth has been ruthlessly exposed. Ole has tried to maintain the style of play introduced in pre season but without the right players for the system it just is not working and with not a lot going right for us panic has started to set in.

The fact remains we are 8 league games into Ole's first full season on the job and as mentioned elsewhere we could easily be top 6 without missed penalties etc. and though we might still be complaining about the tactics etc. we wouldn't be talking about firing anyone. Over a full season luck ceases to be a factor, we will get a couple of wins we probably didn't earn etc. and it will balance out but that has not been the case so far. We will get a run of games with our first choice attack and we will have the opportunity to add a player or two in January. Come seasons end we should be minus a couple more of the deadbeats and hopefully will have added a couple more good players. If Ole still looks a bad fit then his replacement will be inheriting a far better situation than Ole himself did and that is really the worst case scenario. I will cheerfully take money from anyone who wants to bet on us going down because that is not happening and therefore we have nothing to lose by sticking to the plan we only made 2 months ago and potentially a whole lot to gain by showing some backbone and taking our lumps this year to finally fix this squad.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

The guy signed up this week. My guess is oppo fan on the WUM.

We want our newbie system back

Might need thick skin these coming months

 

[r0663664]

Good article and breakdown of the situation by Adam Bate on Sky. Gary Neville should read this.

Neville is just being nice as Ole is a friend and a colleague. If Neville doesn't know him personally, would he be so patient?

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Neville is just being nice as Ole is a friend and a colleague. If Neville doesn't know him personally, would he be so patient?

Neville thought we should have kept Moyes.

 

[Andersonson]

What on Earth are you talking about? He should be sacked because he has no clue. Sure the players are not good enough but any decent manager would sort out a system that the players he has are capable of playing.
It's ridiculous to expect every team to play tiki taka when they can't play like Iniesta.
But the same players can play a lot better in a different system.
It's the manager's fault he can't get them to take a decent corner. And it's the manager's fault for reducing the squad without replacing the players.
Ole can't even organise a piss up in a pub.

But Mou did that, played to the strength of the players, most fans wanted him gone too.

Nobody cant seem to win

 

[roonster09]

But Mou did that, played to the strength of the players, most fans wanted him gone too.

Nobody cant seem to win

He didn't even play to the strength of the player he trusted the most. He used Lukaku as target man when player himself said "Drogba is more of a hold-up player, a target man. I prefer to have ball to feet and run in behind."

 

[Class of 63]

Well I'm a neutral fan.

While I know what it means going through hard patches, if not seasons and how long it takes to rebuild a team (we were there more than once and not later than after winning the title), I can tell you that I completely understand why people are concerned and imo Ole isn't the man for this job, no matter how well he means. I know a builder when I see one, and in fact I'm absolutely amazed that there are still so many fans behind Ole, when he's got little to nothing to show for since he's been permanently appointed, be it results or improvement on the pitch. And we're talking about 9 months, which is more than enough for a manager to stamp his style on a team. The cynical in me would even suggest that these results are perfectly in line with what he did with Cardiff. That he's learning his trade at your expense.

Considering the expectations of such a massive club like yours and his performances, I rather think that he got much more time than any other manager would have if it wasn't for that famous goal in '99. I sincerely doubt that someone with such an unappealing CV as manager would have been touched with a barge pole after Mourinho's sacking if not for his connection to the club. The jump in class too big, especially in one of the toughest leagues in the world. For stating the obvious, he's been permanently appointed way too fast, on a sentimental basis. And I fear that a lot of your fans still defending him, are doing it for the same reasons.

To be brutally honest, any other opposition fan I know wish you rather keep him than appoint another manager who could actually get a bit more from this team. Some of you are acting like you have Millwall's squad, but in my opinion and even with these injuries, you should be able to do a bit better than what you're actually producing. Or you didn't see really shite players for a very, very long time. If you rely only on 2-3 players to make it work then there's something fundamentally wrong in your system.

Going with such an unbalanced, thin squad was utter madness, injuries are bound to happen and if he didn't sanction it, then he should've walked. You look rudderless on the pitch, disjointed, with no discernable game plan. No matter how you're poorly run from the top, and you definitely are, there's a minimum that a manager should be able to deliver on the pitch. I personally don't see it, even at full strength. I do see however youngsters put under massive pressure and thrown too fast in the lion's den without any kind of preparation or being previously loaned.

Take a look at what Benitez has done at Newcastle despite Mike Ashley and on a shoestring before eventually giving up, because enough is enough at some point. Now that was and still is a crap squad, yet he won the Championship right after their relegation and kept them in the PL against all odds. Watch them nose diving now and very likely getting relegated at the end of the season. See how mad their fans are at Ashley because he didn't back him and let him go. I know that they don't have the same ambitions as yours but it was to illustrate how a manager can make a squad look more than the sum of its parts despite being hampered by the board. The list is non-exhaustive.

I also see the last line of defense being his signings. They're indeed good, there's no question about that, although the jury's still out about James, whom I quite like. While he could've done worse, it doesn't take any kind of genius to sign hot targets like Maguire or AWB for £130M. You were crying out loud for a DM, a ST and a RW, yet bought another LW. I also don't understand the "british obsession", you're likely to overpay for them with no guarantee in return.
Unearthing gems is more like picking Kanté from an obscure team in the french premier league for £6M or plucking Mahrez for £400,000 out of the french championship. Just picked these two examples because they're the easiest ones for me. There are plenty others, but you must have the scouting network and the manager with connections and an eye for talent.

I might be wrong, maybe by some kind of miracle Ole will somehow turn it around, but he looks already like a dead man walking and it's now just a matter of when. "Rumors" are already leaking in the papers as well as "talks" about an eventual successor, signs that the shit is already hitting the fan behind the doors. As long as Woodward keeps making money he won't go, you can't sack the players, no matter how shit they are, and the manager will always be the fall guy. On the other side, you just can't keep a struggling manager for the hell of it and if he gets the sack, he won't coach in England ever again. Not even in the Championship.

Not rubbing any salt or being snarky, I liked the player and he seems like an honest bloke, who really loves your club. But the solution he isn't and he and the board should've known better.

Thanks for taking the time @That_Bloke, enjoyed reading that, as good a post as ive seen on these boards for yonks, cheers

 

[Shalashaska]

I think we have to give him until the end of the season as a minimum.

It is foul to watch at the moment, and will probably get worse within the next few months. But jumping around now would just put us back to square one.

The transfer window was a good one, all three players have been our best and most consistent this season. That as well as Tuanzebe looking very competent are real green shoots. But it is very clear that 3 players were not enough.

We have in a sense been very unlucky with Martial's injury as well as Shaw and Pogba. We have been left short and that is down to Ole and the Board but a new manager won't be able to magic a new striker and midfielder out of thin air. The January window will be huge, and if we pick up at least 1 needed player and have a fitter starting 11 we will have a strong second half of the season.

A new manager will come in and have their own players they do and don't want, and have the same players at their disposal. I by no means think Ole is currently doing a good job, but also think we are nuts to think that just swapping him out with another will have any impact at all if we don't make real structural changes at board level (spoiler alert, this won't happen).

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Good article and breakdown of the situation by Adam Bate on Sky. Gary Neville should read this.

Great article, and totally agreed - somebody needs to link Gary Neville and his cronies to this ASAP.

 

[Suv666]

Well I'm a neutral fan.

While I know what it means going through hard patches, if not seasons and how long it takes to rebuild a team (we were there more than once and not later than after winning the title), I can tell you that I completely understand why people are concerned and imo Ole isn't the man for this job, no matter how well he means. I know a builder when I see one, and in fact I'm absolutely amazed that there are still so many fans behind Ole, when he's got little to nothing to show for since he's been permanently appointed, be it results or improvement on the pitch. And we're talking about 9 months, which is more than enough for a manager to stamp his style on a team. The cynical in me would even suggest that these results are perfectly in line with what he did with Cardiff. That he's learning his trade at your expense.

Considering the expectations of such a massive club like yours and his performances, I rather think that he got much more time than any other manager would have if it wasn't for that famous goal in '99. I sincerely doubt that someone with such an unappealing CV as manager would have been touched with a barge pole after Mourinho's sacking if not for his connection to the club. The jump in class too big, especially in one of the toughest leagues in the world. For stating the obvious, he's been permanently appointed way too fast, on a sentimental basis. And I fear that a lot of your fans still defending him, are doing it for the same reasons.

To be brutally honest, any other opposition fan I know wish you rather keep him than appoint another manager who could actually get a bit more from this team. Some of you are acting like you have Millwall's squad, but in my opinion and even with these injuries, you should be able to do a bit better than what you're actually producing. Or you didn't see really shite players for a very, very long time. If you rely only on 2-3 players to make it work then there's something fundamentally wrong in your system.

Going with such an unbalanced, thin squad was utter madness, injuries are bound to happen and if he didn't sanction it, then he should've walked. You look rudderless on the pitch, disjointed, with no discernable game plan. No matter how you're poorly run from the top, and you definitely are, there's a minimum that a manager should be able to deliver on the pitch. I personally don't see it, even at full strength. I do see however youngsters put under massive pressure and thrown too fast in the lion's den without any kind of preparation or being previously loaned.

Take a look at what Benitez has done at Newcastle despite Mike Ashley and on a shoestring before eventually giving up, because enough is enough at some point. Now that was and still is a crap squad, yet he won the Championship right after their relegation and kept them in the PL against all odds. Watch them nose diving now and very likely getting relegated at the end of the season. See how mad their fans are at Ashley because he didn't back him and let him go. I know that they don't have the same ambitions as yours but it was to illustrate how a manager can make a squad look more than the sum of its parts despite being hampered by the board. The list is non-exhaustive.

I also see the last line of defense being his signings. They're indeed good, there's no question about that, although the jury's still out about James, whom I quite like. While he could've done worse, it doesn't take any kind of genius to sign hot targets like Maguire or AWB for £130M. You were crying out loud for a DM, a ST and a RW, yet bought another LW. I also don't understand the "british obsession", you're likely to overpay for them with no guarantee in return.
Unearthing gems is more like picking Kanté from an obscure team in the french premier league for £6M or plucking Mahrez for £400,000 out of the french championship. Just picked these two examples because they're the easiest ones for me. There are plenty others, but you must have the scouting network and the manager with connections and an eye for talent.

I might be wrong, maybe by some kind of miracle Ole will somehow turn it around, but he looks already like a dead man walking and it's now just a matter of when. "Rumors" are already leaking in the papers as well as "talks" about an eventual successor, signs that the shit is already hitting the fan behind the doors. As long as Woodward keeps making money he won't go, you can't sack the players, no matter how shit they are, and the manager will always be the fall guy. On the other side, you just can't keep a struggling manager for the hell of it and if he gets the sack, he won't coach in England ever again. Not even in the Championship.

Not rubbing any salt or being snarky, I liked the player and he seems like an honest bloke, who really loves your club. But the solution he isn't and he and the board should've known better.

I'm in the Ole in camp but you make a lot of sense. I'm just sick of us sacking managers because ultimately with the Glazers inchage I cant see any manager succeding. If we are able to land someone exicting and inventive who despite the lack of support from the board can turn it around I guess sacking Ole would be a viable option. Dont trust the buffons to bring one in though.

 

[Kemizee]

Well I'm a neutral fan.

While I know what it means going through hard patches, if not seasons and how long it takes to rebuild a team (we were there more than once and not later than after winning the title), I can tell you that I completely understand why people are concerned and imo Ole isn't the man for this job, no matter how well he means. I know a builder when I see one, and in fact I'm absolutely amazed that there are still so many fans behind Ole, when he's got little to nothing to show for since he's been permanently appointed, be it results or improvement on the pitch. And we're talking about 9 months, which is more than enough for a manager to stamp his style on a team. The cynical in me would even suggest that these results are perfectly in line with what he did with Cardiff. That he's learning his trade at your expense.

Considering the expectations of such a massive club like yours and his performances, I rather think that he got much more time than any other manager would have if it wasn't for that famous goal in '99. I sincerely doubt that someone with such an unappealing CV as manager would have been touched with a barge pole after Mourinho's sacking if not for his connection to the club. The jump in class too big, especially in one of the toughest leagues in the world. For stating the obvious, he's been permanently appointed way too fast, on a sentimental basis. And I fear that a lot of your fans still defending him, are doing it for the same reasons.

To be brutally honest, any other opposition fan I know wish you rather keep him than appoint another manager who could actually get a bit more from this team. Some of you are acting like you have Millwall's squad, but in my opinion and even with these injuries, you should be able to do a bit better than what you're actually producing. Or you didn't see really shite players for a very, very long time. If you rely only on 2-3 players to make it work then there's something fundamentally wrong in your system.

Going with such an unbalanced, thin squad was utter madness, injuries are bound to happen and if he didn't sanction it, then he should've walked. You look rudderless on the pitch, disjointed, with no discernable game plan. No matter how you're poorly run from the top, and you definitely are, there's a minimum that a manager should be able to deliver on the pitch. I personally don't see it, even at full strength. I do see however youngsters put under massive pressure and thrown too fast in the lion's den without any kind of preparation or being previously loaned.

Take a look at what Benitez has done at Newcastle despite Mike Ashley and on a shoestring before eventually giving up, because enough is enough at some point. Now that was and still is a crap squad, yet he won the Championship right after their relegation and kept them in the PL against all odds. Watch them nose diving now and very likely getting relegated at the end of the season. See how mad their fans are at Ashley because he didn't back him and let him go. I know that they don't have the same ambitions as yours but it was to illustrate how a manager can make a squad look more than the sum of its parts despite being hampered by the board. The list is non-exhaustive.

I also see the last line of defense being his signings. They're indeed good, there's no question about that, although the jury's still out about James, whom I quite like. While he could've done worse, it doesn't take any kind of genius to sign hot targets like Maguire or AWB for £130M. You were crying out loud for a DM, a ST and a RW, yet bought another LW. I also don't understand the "british obsession", you're likely to overpay for them with no guarantee in return.
Unearthing gems is more like picking Kanté from an obscure team in the french premier league for £6M or plucking Mahrez for £400,000 out of the french championship. Just picked these two examples because they're the easiest ones for me. There are plenty others, but you must have the scouting network and the manager with connections and an eye for talent.

I might be wrong, maybe by some kind of miracle Ole will somehow turn it around, but he looks already like a dead man walking and it's now just a matter of when. "Rumors" are already leaking in the papers as well as "talks" about an eventual successor, signs that the shit is already hitting the fan behind the doors. As long as Woodward keeps making money he won't go, you can't sack the players, no matter how shit they are, and the manager will always be the fall guy. On the other side, you just can't keep a struggling manager for the hell of it and if he gets the sack, he won't coach in England ever again. Not even in the Championship.

Not rubbing any salt or being snarky, I liked the player and he seems like an honest bloke, who really loves your club. But the solution he isn't and he and the board should've known better.

Intelligently written and I can't disagree with any of your points at all. Well said. Unfortunately some of our fans are so thick to understand some of the stuffs in your post.

 

[Kemizee]

Honestly, it's an issue of patience and long term planning - something that hasn't happened since SAF left in 2013. Sacking Ole will just continue the cycle of changing managers every couple of seasons. I think Ole doing the right thing in his approach, but it is taking time in front of the world's press and fans, and that's painful for everyone!

Most fans called for the removal of dead wood from the team - Ole did that and we rejoiced. Now, it's rebuilding time and Ole put some trust in some players who simply are not performing at the moment - all that can change in the blink of an eye in football! Now, the real rebuilding is starting that should have started 6 years ago. Ole is asking players to play for the badge NOT their salaries and bonuses and that is quite a change in mindset at this current Man Utd setup! For 6 years it's all been about money-might and now he's trying to change that, and man is that the challenge of the century!

Let's get behind the manager, challenge the players to play for the badge and allow Ole to make the changes needed to rebuild a great club again!

There are levels of delusion and this is quite on the high side.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Neville is just being nice as Ole is a friend and a colleague. If Neville doesn't know him personally, would he be so patient?

Yes. He's always like this, hence why he has no credibility on the issue. Not because he thinks he should be given time (that's his opinion), but the fact that he will never say a manager has to go, or blame them for what's happening, is what brings his credibility into question. it's an absurd stance to take.

 

[Hawks2008]

Milan sack Giampaolo for getting 9 points through 7 matches. Ole has 9 in 8 matches and yet some are still going on about the "vision" ffs.

If only they gave him time he would have become the next Sacchi.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Intelligently written and I can't disagree with any of your points at all. Well said. Unfortunately some of our fans are so thick to understand some of the stuffs in your post.

Why do you have to be so insulting to the fans that aren’t ready for Ole to be sacked not based on his performance which anyone can see isn’t good enough but because some of us believe the problems are bigger than him.

If we do as all the Ole out side want and I don’t call you thick for that I see your point of view it’s just as likely fans will be calling for the next manager out before long under this regime.

 

[Kemizee]

Why do you have to be so insulting to the fans that aren’t ready for Ole to be sacked not based on his performance which anyone can see isn’t good enough but because some of us believe the problems are bigger than him.

If we do as all the Ole out side want and I don’t call you thick for that I see your point of view it’s just as likely fans will be calling for the next manager out before long under this regime.

I understand your point and I didn't mean to be insulting to any of our fans. I actually agree that the problems are bigger than him but so far he doesn't strike me as the solution either. He has failed in the basics of implementing a recognisable pattern of play in his time here, something Lamaprd, Rogers and the others have done.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I understand your point and I didn't mean to be insulting to any of our fans. I actually agree that the problems are bigger than him but so far he doesn't strike me as the solution either. He has failed in the basics of implementing a recognisable pattern of play in his time here, something Lamaprd, Rogers and the others have done.

Luck hasn’t gone his way, he is down to playing players who aren’t good enough or aren’t ready yet. All the injured players seem to be the ones we need and if you look at the lineup that did well against Chelsea we haven’t come close to getting that team out again.

If there was an obvious solution I’d be more interested and forget that Allegri. Juve fans weren’t overly impressed and he can’t speak English yet which is most of our teams first language so can’t see what can possibly go wrong there.

I’d rather suffer and watch that scruffy useless gimp Woodward suffer.

 

[joseph_p]

So what do you guys think is Ole's contract actually worth? If Mou's went for round 20 mil. quid he can' be more then few hundred thousand. Mil tops.

 

[Class of 63]

Yeah your right it was impossible to get a striker in only possible to sell/loan the ones you do have and also impossible to sell pogba and use the money to bring in 1 or 2 players with the money, no manager could of done that what was I thinking it has to take time. Sorry don’t agree at all and as for putting confidence in Rashford and Martial plus Greenwood to score you the goals they would normally score plus the goals of Lukaku is plain hope just as giving time and money to an unproven manger with no CV of doing what we need and are asking him to do.

‘Ole is a gamble and the time you talk of would be far better given to a proven manager who has managed at the top level, this club needs to get its act together and not be wasting any more time on gambles with high odds of success and throwing money at an unproven manager while we all would love to live in an ideal world and Ole be a success and long term manager, we have to deal with the reality he is far from certain to achieve anything, he was only supposed to be a temporary appointment why did this become permanent based on the results of players who we’re going to leave and wanted to leave, obviously poor foresight on the boards part in not at least waiting till the end of the season.

in this mercenary culture of today brought about by clubs like Chelsea, City and PSG do you believe Ole is capable of bringing in top talent from around the world or do you not think that top players are necessary and more British and unproven players are what’s needed? We need to be very careful in the situation this club is in we are still the biggest club in Prem but that stature is under threat and while some will say I don’t care support the club even if it’s relegated but fail to see it’s not a question of support more of wanting this club to be at the top and achieving that becoming much harder the further we fall and the more time we take/waste.

And our problem of Pogba wanting to leave still exists and the longer that takes to resolve the less power you will have in that situation which I believe would of already of been sorted under a better class of manager and their is no way we would of started this season so weak just strengthening the defence but weakening the midfield and no proven attack just a hopeful one.

Would Ole walk into any other top club? If the answer is no why are we persisting with a manager who wouldn’t manage any other top club? Let Ole go learn his trade/experience elsewhere and not hide away in the Norwegian league let him go manage and improve a team and prove his worth he can always come back if he does.

• Where did I say it was impossible to get a striker in? Next
• Why is it a gamble to bring a club Legend in when we were looking for a period of stability? And how did throwing money at proven Managers go?
• We don't necessarily need top talent, just players with above average ability who are prepared to commit to the cause, and not just looking at the club as a stepping-stone, and hopefully can hack playing for the club.
• Oh right so a better class of Manager would have made Madrid/Juventus cough up how much United wanted for Pogba? Interesting.
• Nope, not in a million years, but then I don't think any of the dwindling band supporting Ole getting more time have said he would.

 

[::sonny::]

Milan sack Giampaolo for getting 9 points through 7 matches. Ole has 9 in 8 matches and yet some are still going on about the "vision" ffs.

miracle man

 

[Rista]

Yeah, above average players who hopefully can hack playing for the club is all we need. Paired with the manager with no experience at this level, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Class of 63]

Most see this seasons form as a continuation from last season, after Ole went on about getting them fitter, having a pre season etc, the performances and results aren’t improving. Our results aren’t just down to ‘school boy errors’.

The worry for fans is his managerial record, namely for Cardiff. He took them down, whilst they were in a state when he took the job, he didn’t improve them and even in Championship the football didn’t improve. Most would argue he wouldn’t have got the United job had he not played for us.

If he was still managing Molde at present , would he be on the shortlist for the Sunderland job or the Reading job? Probably not.

Whilst some of the football against Chelsea was good, it could’ve easily been 3-3 or 0-3. Wolves away, we had one shot on target in the first half and we dominated the first 45, we didn't create much. Wolves made an enforced sub at half time and it changed the game, we didn’t react, tactically or mentally. You say if Pogba hadn’t taken the penalty off Rashford, but Rashford missed one the following the game, so no guarantees he’d have scored either. Ole made his first sub in the 81st minute, when it should’ve been at 60 minutes. This Wolves side got turned over 2-5 a few weeks later at home. At home to Palace, it took us 60 minutes to have a shot on target!

Our performances have been pretty much the same after those initial 3 games when he came is as a caretaker manager.

• They probably are fitter but it won't necessary be obvious till the later stages of the season, or even the season after.
• Personally don't care what he did at Cardiff, some of the best Managers of all time have had spells at club they wish they could erase from the record books.
• He wouldn't have got the Gig at Old Trafford if he'd not played for the club, that's not even open to debate.
• Yes. 100% and bigger club than the two you mentioned as well.
• Not sure how it could've been 0-3 when we won 4-0, you might have to explain that to me. Anyhow it was our bogey team at OT, so who cares.
• We did react though, we regained the initiative and should have won, and if Rashford had taken the penalty we probably would.
• Yes Rashford missed the next one, but let's be honest all the fuss made about the previous one he was always likely to.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

What I want to understand from the 'keep Ole' section is: what are you basing your judgment on that given time Ole can create a successful side? There simply is no valid reference point that indicates given time he can implement a playing style befitting Utd to ultimately a successful team. I would say that of all the managers hired since SAF left, his is the most underwhelming CV. Utd is not some sort of experiment to suck it and see how a novice may perform and when you countenance the task there simply can be only one conclusion that Ole needs to be replaced.

 

[Class of 63]

I have stated previously that we should at least give Ole this full season and then make a decision in May on whether it is working or if change is needed. I don't think sentiment plays a part in that, it needs to be a fact based decision based on all aspects of his performance in the role and a consideration of what alternatives are available and if we think they can improve us. Ole has by no means been given a fair shot and is being prematurely judged in some part due to a press that loves to kick us when we are down and due to the selective memory of those who seem to think we were promised a contending team this year.

In the summer the club and Ole made clear that short term fixes had failed and a longer term plan was needed, stripping the squad of overpaid and underperforming veterans, giving opportunities to youth players to see what they had and reshaping the team over several transfer windows. The message was clear that we would probably go backwards before things improved and considering we were a 6th place team what exactly were people expecting? If nothing else I would say this in defence of Ole. If you are told you have a couple of years to build a winning team and you make your decisions on that basis it is ridiculous to then move the goalposts less than a quarter of the way into the season and say we need to be competing right now. I imagine the decisions he made would have been different if he knew that the mob would start baying for blood as soon as things got tough and he would have made the same short term decisions that have hamstrung us for 6 years.

I don't think last season has much bearing on anything as most of it was spent in a caretaker role and even when that tag was removed we were a couple of months away from the end of the season and with no opportunity to change the squad so for me the real assessment began with this summer. To that end I don't really credit Ole all that much for the initial success nor do I blame him for the team running out of gas.

I was happy with the job done is the summer although like 99% of posters and Ole himself I felt we needed a couple more players to replace what we lost. The style of play was evident, the new signings all look like money well spent and the first XI at least looked capable of doing a job and that was backed up by the performances in the opening couple of games when we looked more solid at the back and dangerous going forward. Losing Martial and Shaw impacted us significantly and it has been a pretty dire few weeks since then as the lack of depth has been ruthlessly exposed. Ole has tried to maintain the style of play introduced in pre season but without the right players for the system it just is not working and with not a lot going right for us panic has started to set in.

The fact remains we are 8 league games into Ole's first full season on the job and as mentioned elsewhere we could easily be top 6 without missed penalties etc. and though we might still be complaining about the tactics etc. we wouldn't be talking about firing anyone. Over a full season luck ceases to be a factor, we will get a couple of wins we probably didn't earn etc. and it will balance out but that has not been the case so far. We will get a run of games with our first choice attack and we will have the opportunity to add a player or two in January. Come seasons end we should be minus a couple more of the deadbeats and hopefully will have added a couple more good players. If Ole still looks a bad fit then his replacement will be inheriting a far better situation than Ole himself did and that is really the worst case scenario. I will cheerfully take money from anyone who wants to bet on us going down because that is not happening and therefore we have nothing to lose by sticking to the plan we only made 2 months ago and potentially a whole lot to gain by showing some backbone and taking our lumps this year to finally fix this squad.

Great post.

 

[Chairman Steve]

OGS has had a good half year headstart on both Rodgers and Lampard to impose a style on us, yet those latter two have already got their sides looking better than what they were. Lampard has put the youngsters in after losing the standout player and being banned from buying and Rodgers has turned the dull Puel side into a more exciting side. Whilst OGS’ Utd looks just as bad (if not worse than) as Jose’s last few Utd games.

When LVG gutted the squad he filled with the squad with mediocrity and players that just didn’t fit. When OGS gutted the squad he didn’t replace any of them. He seemingly just thought in blind hope that Martial and his beloved Rashy would suddenly turn into 30 goal strikers? And a 17 year old would be adequate cover? And added another fecking left sided attacker? Was he expecting absolutely zero injuries to happen or something?

And to those who think “But we need Pogba, Martial and Shaw back to look good!”... if we’re reliant on 2-3 players being in the team all the time throughout a 50 game season, then that’s a big fecking problem... and if we had an actual system then we shouldn’t be too reliant on them right? You know... a little bit of coaching and improvisation?

 

[Apokalips]

I have stated previously that we should at least give Ole this full season and then make a decision in May on whether it is working or if change is needed. I don't think sentiment plays a part in that, it needs to be a fact based decision based on all aspects of his performance in the role and a consideration of what alternatives are available and if we think they can improve us. Ole has by no means been given a fair shot and is being prematurely judged in some part due to a press that loves to kick us when we are down and due to the selective memory of those who seem to think we were promised a contending team this year.

In the summer the club and Ole made clear that short term fixes had failed and a longer term plan was needed, stripping the squad of overpaid and underperforming veterans, giving opportunities to youth players to see what they had and reshaping the team over several transfer windows. The message was clear that we would probably go backwards before things improved and considering we were a 6th place team what exactly were people expecting? If nothing else I would say this in defence of Ole. If you are told you have a couple of years to build a winning team and you make your decisions on that basis it is ridiculous to then move the goalposts less than a quarter of the way into the season and say we need to be competing right now. I imagine the decisions he made would have been different if he knew that the mob would start baying for blood as soon as things got tough and he would have made the same short term decisions that have hamstrung us for 6 years.

I don't think last season has much bearing on anything as most of it was spent in a caretaker role and even when that tag was removed we were a couple of months away from the end of the season and with no opportunity to change the squad so for me the real assessment began with this summer. To that end I don't really credit Ole all that much for the initial success nor do I blame him for the team running out of gas.

I was happy with the job done is the summer although like 99% of posters and Ole himself I felt we needed a couple more players to replace what we lost. The style of play was evident, the new signings all look like money well spent and the first XI at least looked capable of doing a job and that was backed up by the performances in the opening couple of games when we looked more solid at the back and dangerous going forward. Losing Martial and Shaw impacted us significantly and it has been a pretty dire few weeks since then as the lack of depth has been ruthlessly exposed. Ole has tried to maintain the style of play introduced in pre season but without the right players for the system it just is not working and with not a lot going right for us panic has started to set in.

The fact remains we are 8 league games into Ole's first full season on the job and as mentioned elsewhere we could easily be top 6 without missed penalties etc. and though we might still be complaining about the tactics etc. we wouldn't be talking about firing anyone. Over a full season luck ceases to be a factor, we will get a couple of wins we probably didn't earn etc. and it will balance out but that has not been the case so far. We will get a run of games with our first choice attack and we will have the opportunity to add a player or two in January. Come seasons end we should be minus a couple more of the deadbeats and hopefully will have added a couple more good players. If Ole still looks a bad fit then his replacement will be inheriting a far better situation than Ole himself did and that is really the worst case scenario. I will cheerfully take money from anyone who wants to bet on us going down because that is not happening and therefore we have nothing to lose by sticking to the plan we only made 2 months ago and potentially a whole lot to gain by showing some backbone and taking our lumps this year to finally fix this squad.

100% spot on.

 

[Tony Banta]

• They probably are fitter but it won't necessary be obvious till the later stages of the season, or even the season after.
• Personally don't care what he did at Cardiff, some of the best Managers of all time have had spells at club they wish they could erase from the record books.
• He wouldn't have got the Gig at Old Trafford if he'd not played for the club, that's not even open to debate.
• Yes. 100% and bigger club than the two you mentioned as well.
• Not sure how it could've been 0-3 when we won 4-0, you might have to explain that to me. Anyhow it was our bogey team at OT, so who cares.
• We did react though, we regained the initiative and should have won, and if Rashford had taken the penalty we probably would.
• Yes Rashford missed the next one, but let's be honest all the fuss made about the previous one he was always likely to.

I didn’t say you cared about what he did at Cardiff. Absolute rubbish he’d be on the shortlist of bigger clubs then Sunderland and Reading, he was sacked by Cardiff in 2014, didn’t return to Molde 2015. He’s never been courted by a big club.

Seeing as you don’t care, I won’t bother wasting my time.

 

[Patrick Astwood]

Ole should be sacked. For me there is one critical reason why. The last transfer window is where he needed to make crucial decisions about players he was releasing and who he was bringing in. And to be brutally honest he flunked it. After several seasons of poor buys and gradual decline, our situation at the beginning of the 2019/20 season was so precarious that this pre-season was probably the most important of all. We were no-longer a guaranteed top 4 but in real danger of falling ever further down the league. Ole should have grasp the gravity of this and reacted accordingly, but it seems he underestimated the task. To release players, especially attacking players, without replacing them was a serious error of judgement. So that now we no longer face the prospect of standing still, but the very real prospect of relegation. It is inescapable that Ole did not show the right judgement or use his new found authority wisely when preparing the team, and we are now paying the price.

 

[Class of 63]

I didn’t say you cared about what he did at Cardiff. Absolute rubbish he’d be on the shortlist of bigger clubs then Sunderland and Reading, he was sacked by Cardiff in 2014, didn’t return to Molde 2015. He’s never been courted by a big club.

Seeing as you don’t care, I won’t bother wasting my time.

Your loss pal, you might actually learn something.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Ole should be sacked. For me there is one critical reason why. The last transfer window is where he needed to make crucial decisions about players he was releasing and who he was bringing in. And to be brutally honest he flunked it. After several seasons of poor buys and gradual decline, our situation at the beginning of the 2019/20 season was so precarious that this pre-season was probably the most important of all. We were no-longer a guaranteed top 4 but in real danger of falling ever further down the league. Ole should have grasp the gravity of this and reacted accordingly, but it seems he underestimated the task. To release players, especially attacking players, without replacing them was a serious error of judgement. So that now we no longer face the prospect of standing still, but the very real prospect of relegation. It is inescapable that Ole did not show the right judgement or use his new found authority wisely when preparing the team, and we are now paying the price.

Yeah it wasn’t Ole who makes the final decisions on transfers

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Good article and breakdown of the situation by Adam Bate on Sky. Gary Neville should read this.

Excellent article.

 

[Tony Banta]

Your loss pal, you might actually learn something.

I’m not your pal,

 

[Robbie Boy]

I’m not your pal,

 

[USREDEVIL]

What a meanie right?

 

[Revaulx]

Many would have thought the same if they'd seen SAF's first 14/16 months at Old Trafford as most of the football was worse than anything we've seen since he retired. True story.

They might play better football(at times), but there is next to no pressure on the players, playing for United with the expectations is a whole new ball game.

SAF took over when we were plummeting into the relegation zone. Like we are now.

18 months later we finished second in the league. Like we were less than 18 months ago.

So not a true story. Not remotely.

 

[Catt]

So AC Milan has sacked their manager 7 games into the season with a record of 3 wins 4 losses.

So far, having 8 games played, Ole has won 2 games, drawn 3, lost 3.

And our next game is Liverpool...

What has Milan got to do with United?

 

[Lay]

What has Milan got to do with United?

Haven’t you heard? We are the new Milan.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

SAF took over when we were plummeting into the relegation zone. Like we are now.

18 months later we finished second in the league. Like we were less than 18 months ago.

So not a true story. Not remotely.

That 2nd finish under Fergie was a false flag similar to Jose’s - fergie knew it and tore that team apart. All Jose wanted to do was buy.

 

[Enigma_87]

I have stated previously that we should at least give Ole this full season and then make a decision in May on whether it is working or if change is needed. I don't think sentiment plays a part in that, it needs to be a fact based decision based on all aspects of his performance in the role and a consideration of what alternatives are available and if we think they can improve us. Ole has by no means been given a fair shot and is being prematurely judged in some part due to a press that loves to kick us when we are down and due to the selective memory of those who seem to think we were promised a contending team this year.

In the summer the club and Ole made clear that short term fixes had failed and a longer term plan was needed, stripping the squad of overpaid and underperforming veterans, giving opportunities to youth players to see what they had and reshaping the team over several transfer windows. The message was clear that we would probably go backwards before things improved and considering we were a 6th place team what exactly were people expecting? If nothing else I would say this in defence of Ole. If you are told you have a couple of years to build a winning team and you make your decisions on that basis it is ridiculous to then move the goalposts less than a quarter of the way into the season and say we need to be competing right now. I imagine the decisions he made would have been different if he knew that the mob would start baying for blood as soon as things got tough and he would have made the same short term decisions that have hamstrung us for 6 years.

I don't think last season has much bearing on anything as most of it was spent in a caretaker role and even when that tag was removed we were a couple of months away from the end of the season and with no opportunity to change the squad so for me the real assessment began with this summer. To that end I don't really credit Ole all that much for the initial success nor do I blame him for the team running out of gas.

I was happy with the job done is the summer although like 99% of posters and Ole himself I felt we needed a couple more players to replace what we lost. The style of play was evident, the new signings all look like money well spent and the first XI at least looked capable of doing a job and that was backed up by the performances in the opening couple of games when we looked more solid at the back and dangerous going forward. Losing Martial and Shaw impacted us significantly and it has been a pretty dire few weeks since then as the lack of depth has been ruthlessly exposed. Ole has tried to maintain the style of play introduced in pre season but without the right players for the system it just is not working and with not a lot going right for us panic has started to set in.

The fact remains we are 8 league games into Ole's first full season on the job and as mentioned elsewhere we could easily be top 6 without missed penalties etc. and though we might still be complaining about the tactics etc. we wouldn't be talking about firing anyone. Over a full season luck ceases to be a factor, we will get a couple of wins we probably didn't earn etc. and it will balance out but that has not been the case so far. We will get a run of games with our first choice attack and we will have the opportunity to add a player or two in January. Come seasons end we should be minus a couple more of the deadbeats and hopefully will have added a couple more good players. If Ole still looks a bad fit then his replacement will be inheriting a far better situation than Ole himself did and that is really the worst case scenario. I will cheerfully take money from anyone who wants to bet on us going down because that is not happening and therefore we have nothing to lose by sticking to the plan we only made 2 months ago and potentially a whole lot to gain by showing some backbone and taking our lumps this year to finally fix this squad.

Oh, my... Excuses, missed penalties, injuries. Some people are hellbent to make it easy for him and have a free ride at one of the biggest clubs in the world (yet).

Really stopped reading there. We're 17th in the ranking in terms of big chances created. Have played inferior teams and as you would love excuses - a very very limited Chelsea team under a new and unproven manager as well who battered us in the first half and should've been 2 up.

The squad is bare bones and the tactics and style of play is worse than Moyes.

The fact remains that he's 4 wins in 17, needed penalties to win against mighty Rochdale and looked clueless yet again against AZ.

It's truly remarkable how some of the top reds are trying to explain failure.

Also the amount of muscle injuries we picked down the road since he took over is also probably down to the training methods considering we didn't pick so many under Jose last year.

Over the course of the season we will pick even more injuries and the squad will be even more restricted. Fatigue will also come into play as those players will be run into the ground. Rashford who is 21 was visibly tired as early as end of September.

The whole post reeks of delusion, especially if you think that Ole will miraculously turn things around. We saw him at Cardiff.

If you are willing to bet I can gladly oblige and bet you £1000 he will be gone at some point this season or at the end of it.

Worst PL appointment in some time.