Both Lampard and Ole are carried on with the quality of their attacking players. I don't see much difference between both, to be honest. Both are above average managers at best.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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No i really don't agree with that. They had to grind out results and they've had a favourable fixture list up to now. Im not too concerned with Spurs finishing above us based on what I've seen so far
They were far from absolutely outstanding in any of those 3 games.
From the posts of Ole outers I've read it's more of people complaining Ole isn't good enough rather than saying sack him now
Selective reading.
Whats the difference?
I'm sure that's what I did
Isn’t good enough = look for someone to replace him and act on it when you find the right candidate. The timescale for this would unpredictable.
Sack him now = be prepared to appoint another interim manager until the season ends, then appoint a new manager or appoint immediately from the talent pool currently available
If that is what the poster means then the Last option looks lunacy at the moment.
Only way he is getting sacked is if he fails to qualify for CL , or when its mathematically impossible to do so. Think the signs from Ed and Glazers have been pretty clear on that. But with the amount of seemingly strong teams this season it may very well happen.
Who's this then? The pool of Poch?
With the assumption that we secure 3 points away to Southampton this weekend:
After 9 rounds we are 2 points behind said Chelsea and 4 behind Tottenham at the top of the table. Less than one third of the season played.
We are still in all cups
We are on pace to secure a spot in the knockout stages of the Champions League in the hardest group this season, with 2 of the best matches and results in Europe since Sir Alex retired.
And you're making the argument that Chelsea and Tottenhams fans should be delighted, whereas Ole should face the sack? Over a 2 and 4 point Premier League differential?
I get the criticism. The critcism is that we're not leading the Premier League. I'm just struggling with this notion that those clubs are seemingly in such a great shape compared to us. Can you elaborate on WHY that is? Because this smells a lot like confirmation bias.
What you and Ole-out crowd don't understand is that how much damage was done by Mourinho to this club. The more damage, the higher the cost (time & money) to fix it. And it won't take just one-two years to fix, it will take more than that and last season was his ever first full season in charged and he has only got himself 2 summer transfer window to work so far.
If Ole was appointed to fix problem, on the other hand, Lampard took over a team that just won EL and finished 3rd under Sarri. What Sarri left Lampard with isn't problem but progress from their previous season. And if you are going to make excuse about Chelsea lost Hazard, we also lost Lukaku. It sounds unfair comparison but what common is Hazard was Chelsea best attacker and Lukaku was United best attacker. Both lost their best attacker means both had big loss in offensive department except Lampard got Pulisic as replacement while we needed to wait until end of January to sign Bruno.
This season is not even 10 games, we are only 5 points & 7 points off from Chelsea & Spurs and both are one game ahead. Too early to judge. Although, just want to point out that you think Jose & Lampard have sorted out their main weaknesses, but Ole didn't get his RW or alternative to sort out the weakness. Now he end up playing Mata in there and the fans are expecting teenager 18-19 years old should be good enough to solve it this season.
Regardless of whether your feeling is right or not. Can you name one available manager you feel could win the title with the current squad?
Well as someone that thinks Ole is not good enough I would only criticise him but would not be shouting he should be sacked now and wouldn't unless
1) I see us struggling to make top 4 or we don't make top 4 this season
2) A manager that has a convincing look/CV of taking us back to the top along with an exciting style of play becomes available or attainable. Like City with Pellegrini when Pep was available
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Keep him & would everyone on this website get off his back & give him a break for 2 seconds!!
I specifically made reference to right now in my post. The wider point was Mourinho and Lampard had serious criticism towards the end of last season but very good transfer signings and a good start to the season has brought an end to the criticism. If Ole was able to do the same, this thread would not be active. I do agree its, far too early to say all of Spurs and Chelsea's problems are sorted but so far they have and that's why things are looking positive.
Spurs were struggling to be creative last season and now Kane and Son look back to their best, Chelsea could not defend for shit and after adding Silva and Mendy they look solid at the back. This is why their fans have a more positive outlook at present, they have improved their weaknesses and strengthened their squads. Will it last? only time will tell but I'd be pretty excited as a Spurs or Chelsea fan right now.
Again I've not called for Ole to be sacked tomorrow, I'd prefer him finish the season but be let off after that. I don't believe he has the ability to get us where we need to get to.
So essentially, you're blaming Ole for Woodward and Judge not being able to do their jobs? What kind of logic is that?
Ok, for how long? What’s the minimum marker for you come the end of the season?
It hurts my head reading that as well.
Why is that question relevant? I don't think anyone believes our current team wins the league.
The more important question is do I see us ever winning the league with Ole as our manager? The answer is an emphatic no and if that's the case why stick with him for the long term.
Can we ban these weird stat attacks that are meaningless when they straddle seasons? I get your point might be that since Bruno came things look better (as they should when you sign an expensive player) but the team is judged season by season, not for random periods of time where we're on fire or, equally to be fair, doing poorly.
We need to suck it up and show a bit of grit to get back into the top four where we should be with this squad - it's down to the team and coaches now to find some consistency & I've got a feeling we'll be really up for it this Sunday.
Have to give you credit for not mentioning Poch !
I don't get your point. Last season we did well and came third, but that's the past and should count for nothing. You think it's better to stick to the very small sample from this season because it suits your agenda better?
Indeed. It's the usual absurdity of people losing their shit over a few games. Ignoring the previous months of good form and focussing on a small inconsisent run, it goes the other way too, when clubs go on a small run of good form people lose their shit and hype up the Manager and players as the second coming of Jesus only for those clubs to fall back to their usual standard.
You'd think United fans would be proud of our form in 2020 and instead some snear at it and wave it off as irrelevant. Weird.
Not sure if you've confused my post with another? I even specified that I hope we stop seeing cherry picked stats from BOTH sides, whether we're going great or not. I had thought that would stop posters reacting rashly and starting these pointless off-piste threads about agendas but alas, earwax.
My sole point is whether you are Ole in, Ole out or Ole shake it all about, we should not use this model of between [insert random date] to [insert random date] we were better than x, y or z if the time period straddles different seasons. You don't have to agree with that, that's completely fine, but you can stop being so quick to allude to someone having an agenda.
Ole has high highs and low lows. You can create any sort of agenda you want just looking at specific time periods.
Certain time periods he has better results than Klopp, other times he makes that Huddersfield manager from last season look good.
Consistency over one season is the one thing that's lacking in Ole's tenure so far. Mind you, if we did get that consistency we'd probably be champions so it's easier said than done.
Certain time periods he has better results than Klopp, other times he makes that Huddersfield manager from last season look good.
Consistency over one season is the one thing that's lacking in Ole's tenure so far. Mind you, if we did get that consistency we'd probably be champions so it's easier said than done.
Why since February, is there a particular reason?
It is absurd. I get the idea that many are unhappy with the results and where the club is compared to where it should be. That someone is to blame for this, and we could and should do better. I don't understand blaming the manager, who's been here for less than 2 years for a decline that's been happening since before Sir Alex left the club.
We've had 2nd best points in the PL before, in a whole season at that as opposed to a specially selected period of time. And even then we were dissatisfied because the direction wasn't clear, and ultimately that manager was rightfully sacked.
Clear direction, especially with style of play, is the most important thing at this point. In fact it's why we brought Ole in the first place, because we were hoping he'd make us a better team on the pitch.
The performances this season in the PL especially have been cause for worry, but he has done well in the CL in terms of results and excitement. The most important thing to look out for is improved performances.
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Fair enough, all though I do disagree. Stats are a way to back an opinion, and when presented they strengthen the point a poster is making. We may agree or disagree on what a stat suggests, but it's better than the "I feel that ... " or the "I don't feel that ... " that this thread is full of.
Bruno I guess.
Makes some sense but always silly trying to break down parts of seasons like this.
The end part of last season was very good and promising.
The start to this season so far has been a huge step back in terms of league performances and in terms of points, not good enough.
Next few games are crucial.
Mourinho had a clear style of play. Many hated it, but it's been clear. He was ultra defensive, reactive and risk averse. His management was generally negative, threw players under the bus and blamed everyone when things didn't go his way.
The reason he was sacked is because results weren't going well. He was unlikely to turn it around because he lost the dressing room and was publicly critical of the board not giving him the players he wanted or getting rid of the ones he didn't.
I don't see much similarity with the situation now. Ole has mixed results but appears to have the players on his side and hasn't publicly criticized the board.
For Mourinho, results went south because the style wasn't good enough for consistent results without extreme player motivation. And once the motivation dropped due to his antics, there was nothing underneath to sustain us on the pitch. We already saw signs of that in his 2nd season with De Gea's heroics masking the underlying poor metrics.
That's the worry for Ole. I saw a stat saying that we have only scored one non penalty goal at home in the PL which is pretty bad. And it's been a consistent theme, needing a penalty to open up the game against more organized opponents. The performances need to be such that even after a loss or draw, we can say that we created enough to score a couple of goals (barring anomalies of course).
People keep on bringing Jose and asking why fans didn't back him even after finishing 2nd. Well let me tell you why. Peolle didn't not hate or turn on Jose for finishing 2nd but because of his mannerism after sevilla defeat. It was all sour. And most predicted in summer Jose will explode and we will waste the whole season amd that's what's happened. Imagine ole after losing 6-1 turning on martial, I bet many ole neutrals and inners would have turned on Ole. Result wise Jose was fine but his mannerism and his boring football made fans done with him.
While most of the people have talked about the reasons why things went south, I'm pretty sure the board realized that the club would be in deep shit if they went ahead and did the transfers he was asking.
We'd have ended up with Valencia, Young, Matic, Mata, Alexis, Boateng, Perisic who would have needed replacing within 3 odd years. Add to that we wouldn't have had Shaw, Pogba, Martial at the club, and maybe Rashy might have left us as well
No question the board realised it was going to be very expensive and with an incredibly high player turnaround, that’s why they stopped backing him and put the transfer board in place.
Can’t really blame them for that, but I blame the dumb fecks for ever employing him in that case as we all knew that’s exactly how he works. What were they expecting?
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