Good post. I feel the same way, though I have more doubts about Allegri since he is more of a Mourinho than a Klopp stylistically so I don't think he's a good fit for us. Also it seems he doesn't speak English very well and however entertaining Van Gaal was I don't think we need a sequel to that.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Good post. I feel the same way, though I have more doubts about Allegri since he is more of a Mourinho than a Klopp stylistically so I don't think he's a good fit for us. Also it seems he doesn't speak English very well and however entertaining Van Gaal was I don't think we need a sequel to that.
“Your job now is to stand by my seventh choice manager since Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti, LVG, etc weren’t available” more like.
This was 2013 and Moyes was the catalyst to this whole mess.
What a diabolical point to make
Is there ANY proof that Moyes was not the first choice? Or are you saying that because it hurts you to believe that SAF would pick Moyes as a successor? I think we both know the answer to this.
Are you saying there are no other managers who could do a better job than 5 wins out of 23? We don't necessarily need to offer someone a permanent job right now, we should get an interim who could at least keep us in the top half of the table... It simply cannot continue like that with Ole.
Absolutely disagree; we are playing a mixture of LvG and Mourinho's football, i.e. zombie passing + counter-attacking = disaster football.
Just getting Ole out the door is not going to solve everything. There has to be a manager available who comes in and is mentally determined enough to steer the club back where it belongs. They'll also have to be a tactical genius with our current crop of players. Who can that person be? It can't be a mercenary who's prepared to suck and see in return for a decent wage and possible pay off.
The fundamentals of the game haven't changed since the 80s, but the big difference between Ferguson then, and Ole now, is that Ferguson was a proven winner in Scotland. Ole is unproven.
The good thing about Ole is that he has the conviction to see United restored to glory, but if he's mentally weak and tactically inept, who do we replace him with?
Streaming Sky Sports news in the half expectation an announcement is pending shortly. 9am UK time. Could be getting told as I type this.
I'm not sure how you can say that. Our football is boring. I could understand if you said you were equally bored, despite the results. Better football though? There is no evidence of him being an attacking manager apart from his initial interviews where he emphasized United were about attacking football.
I would like to see him replaced but not for just anyone, I believe we need to have another manager lined up before replacing him and currently I can only think of 4/5 managers and they are all in work.
More than a manager we need a coach who will teach us to play football.
Granted the past few games it has been pretty poo.
Mourinhos football was extremely boring. Defend/Park the bus for 90 minutes while hoping to score on the other end. That was something you KNEW was going to happen EVERY single match with Mourinho.
Ole on the other hand, the team actually tries to attack, even though we're pretty piss poor at it considering our front options but it is more enjoyable to watch than Mourinho, even by a tiny bit.
If forced into it, right now I'd probably go with Sean Dyche till the end of the season, but he could be similar to David Moyes, and he might not be able to step up mentally. Pochetino won't want to join us, and Zidane is getting found out at Real. Giggs could turn out similar to Ole. These things are hard to predict.
The good thing is that we bought 3 good players this season, and with better quality in other areas, and the players to come back, I see us going in the right direction. It just hurts like hell at the moment.
what and forgo a multi million pound pay off? No chance. He wouldn’t walk even if he relegated us.
The question i would ask, is ole' a top manager with a proven history of challenging/winning and of building and rebuilding teams? I do not believe United is a club for hopeful experiments to see if given time ole' can become this, at this point in United's present state this club needs a proven manager and he needs to be backed fully by the board, i know people will say we have tried that with Van Gaal and Mourinho but nether were that good a fit for united and Mourinho was not backed fully as his style and volatility was questionable...
Ole' was only brought in as a temporary manager, by the way people talk now you would think he's the only man for the job.
Ole' was only brought in as a temporary manager, by the way people talk now you would think he's the only man for the job.
For everyone saying 'Keep because they believe we will have a turnaround when Pogba, Martial and Shaw return', think again cos these three especially Martial and Pogba already know he is out of his depth and the whole team is just going through the motions.
Pogba easily becomes disinterested and downs tools while Martial's body language when he doesn't give a feck is always noticeable. These two will infect the team even further with their lethargy and lacklustre attitude. We will be worse than we currently are going by their history.
Pogba easily becomes disinterested and downs tools while Martial's body language when he doesn't give a feck is always noticeable. These two will infect the team even further with their lethargy and lacklustre attitude. We will be worse than we currently are going by their history.
I would get rid of Carick, Mkenna and the lot too because they have not helped Ole at all. The team don't know how to pass, attack and score which is so worrying.
Exactly, and when people talk about lack of quality etc, no one can tell me that the team is worse than the Newcastle team.
Ole will have to make a decision because he has given Mata, Perreira and Rashford enough chances and has produced nothing, I would drop the lot of them in the next game if Martial, Pogba are fit. All this talk about trusting youth, what happens when a player is not in form? you replace him?
Are there any signs Rashford, Lingard will be dropped? None.
I read it all but just wanted to respond to a couple of points...
I’m torn on this. Maguire and Wan-Bissaka were very obvious targets, so James is the main positive surprise. But mainly, if you credit the transfers in you also have to damn the willingness to let players leave without replacement.
I worry this is a coaching issue too. A focus on an old school 90s style fitness regime that has been detrimental.
Klopp left Dortmund in a state. I believe Poch is 100% the best candidate despite what is happening at Spurs at the moment. In fact it is advantageous to us that his Spurs tenure seems to be coming to a close.
I’m torn on this. Maguire and Wan-Bissaka were very obvious targets, so James is the main positive surprise. But mainly, if you credit the transfers in you also have to damn the willingness to let players leave without replacement.
I worry this is a coaching issue too. A focus on an old school 90s style fitness regime that has been detrimental.
I think there are big issues with how our attack is coached. We are completely without ideas. At this level the timing of runs and patterns of play should be coached. Our forwards aren’t good enough, but they don’t make the right runs on crosses/cut backs and always seem later than the defender because the move/pattern hasn’t been timed or coached effectively. The atrocious quality of our set pieces is further evidence this kind of detailed coaching is not occurring.
Klopp left Dortmund in a state. I believe Poch is 100% the best candidate despite what is happening at Spurs at the moment. In fact it is advantageous to us that his Spurs tenure seems to be coming to a close.
How on earth can pogba and martial help when they are johnny foreigners who don't work hard and do not understand what playing for united is all about? I thought that Jesse, rashy, mcT and the rest of the honest lads will lead us to glory
They were good buys, give the man credit...
Did you purposely miss the point? I thought it was obvious personally...
Yes those skills are requisite in the managerial role, but then I'm not recommending him for that role am I? I'm not recommending him for any role, I'm just saying I haven't seen anything to make me believe he wouldn't be good in a different role, DoF for example.
I mean most of you (me included) thought he was good enough to be our manager a few months ago....
Fellaine, Herrera, Carrick, Sanchez, Lukaku, all gone and no replacements. the list is a lot longer when you think of the amount of quality players that have left or passed through in recent years without really matching or increasing the quality with replacements - think Fred.
I like the players Ole has brought in and gotten rid of, the fact he's got De Gea to extend and the Maddison and Sancho type links associated with him.
Whether Ole has the nous to make them more than the sum of their parts, time will tell. It's a shame Pogba is being such a twat, were he committed, Ole's or any successor's job would probably be a lot simpler.
So, I accept Ole may not be up to the job, and might have to be replaced if relegation did seem a possibility, but the glaring fact is, whoever you choose to put in charge, the Glazers/Board have to stump up the cash it takes to finish the job properly.
I'd like to see the board pull out all the stops to get Ole exactly the players he wants, and as soon as is humanly possible, because this is a problem entirely of their own making, and one that only they can put right, whoever is at the wheel.
As I said, I really like the direction Ole is taking the squad in regards to rebuilding it, but without some stunning and rapid transfer activity to bring in the top-end players this squad desperately requires, we and whoever is at the wheel will contiue to suffer.
It doesn't matter who is at the wheel, only investment can save us now.
I like the players Ole has brought in and gotten rid of, the fact he's got De Gea to extend and the Maddison and Sancho type links associated with him.
Whether Ole has the nous to make them more than the sum of their parts, time will tell. It's a shame Pogba is being such a twat, were he committed, Ole's or any successor's job would probably be a lot simpler.
So, I accept Ole may not be up to the job, and might have to be replaced if relegation did seem a possibility, but the glaring fact is, whoever you choose to put in charge, the Glazers/Board have to stump up the cash it takes to finish the job properly.
I'd like to see the board pull out all the stops to get Ole exactly the players he wants, and as soon as is humanly possible, because this is a problem entirely of their own making, and one that only they can put right, whoever is at the wheel.
As I said, I really like the direction Ole is taking the squad in regards to rebuilding it, but without some stunning and rapid transfer activity to bring in the top-end players this squad desperately requires, we and whoever is at the wheel will contiue to suffer.
It doesn't matter who is at the wheel, only investment can save us now.
F.. me now I have to deal with the Pogba boys even on this thread. Ole's misjudgement in balancing the squad( mostly not replacing Lukaku and Herrera) will probably cost him his job given that he obviously rates both Pogba and Martial and was definetly counting on them in this coming season. One could also argue that the decision (if it wasn't a financial one like I said before) not to replace Lukaku was a sign of faith from Ole to both Martial and Rashford. An opportunity neither of them took. But in all fairness I'm probably going to change my vote to "sack" after Pogba gets run over by Jordan f... Henderson and the Dippers dominate us in every single aspect of the game in a 3 0 trashing.
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I can say hand on heart I never advocated for him to be appointed on a full time basis. I said the club should wait until the end of last season before making a decision. There was no need for the club to do that. Ole is not good enough to manage us.
I honestly don't know if any manager could do much better with this pathetic squad of players.
The players Ole have brought in look like good signings. I wouldn't have kept any of the players he let go. We do need replacements but I don't think it's Oles fault we don't have them. I think we were not able to get the right players in, so he has gone with what we have. As painful as this is I think it's the right thing to do. Making the wrong signings is partly how we got in this mess.
The players Ole have brought in look like good signings. I wouldn't have kept any of the players he let go. We do need replacements but I don't think it's Oles fault we don't have them. I think we were not able to get the right players in, so he has gone with what we have. As painful as this is I think it's the right thing to do. Making the wrong signings is partly how we got in this mess.
True, but what is so baffling is how they played like lions in his 10 first games and then completely collapsed and look at us now.
Agree with this, but the truly worrying part is that we have seen so much of this over the past years. Lazy, uninspired football, no fight, no desire, no pride, basically everyone seems to give no fecks out there.
When Ole first came, it seemed many of them had something to prove to the world and now we seem as bad as in Jose's last year
I fear that if we replace Ole the story will repeat itself. A temporary bounce in morale and perfomance before we slide back to complete shit.
Disagree with the bolded part. You fear changing jose or lvg because while not pristine under them things can get worse (as shown by ole). However in ole situation the only thing worse that can happen is relegation.
I'd take my chance on a top manager, no matter how much the uncertainty that it brings rather than a 100 percent no top 4, 50percent of top 6 and 20percent chance of relegation
No bias, just pure probability.
Wait, are you saying Sky Sports news said Ole is getting sacked today?
You can’t buy those kind of players when you are this shit though, Sancho and Maddison are not going to join. They’ll stay put until they get better offers, it’s a nice idea waiting for the ‘right signings’ but negated by giving out new contracts to the wrong players and being so bad you can’t recruit players you are waiting for.
This is quite simple now, we made an emotional and convenient decision appointing Ole and it was a big mistake. Time to correct it now and move on, he’s made some decisions that longer term might be good but his lack of ability has been exposed.
No shame in that, I’m sure he never expected to be back managing in Premier League for any club let alone Utd. He’s given it his best shot and the blame has to be directed at Woodward and co.
Big swing from keep to sack... liverpool next !
It almost broke my heart to watch Ole's post match interview last night. He is such a decent guy but he just seemed so out of his depth, repeating over and over that the lads were working hard. I am afraid I have voted out. This is our, what, fourth rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild but I just don't think he is the man for the job, even if he should have another transfer window as some suggest. There are no green shoots that I can see. The football is abysmal and clueless and these guys have no fight in them. I just don't know what our, ahem, philosophy is anymore.
I would just love it if Ole put his hands up and said, "enough is enough and I am stepping down, I can't take this project further." But he isn't going to do that. He probably thinks that would leave us in deeper crisis or he would be seen as a quitter and lose all respect. We still respect you Ole but as a great player, and as an adequate journeyman caretaker. Bow out now, with integrity. I am sure you don't need the money.
The trouble is, who do we get in as a caretaker or permanent replacement? Our Board is a voracious money making machine first and foremost which sucks in managers and grinds them up in the machinery. Fergie succeeded because of his genius, personality and track record. In fact I would say he continued to bring us success in spite of the board. Moyes was Moyes. LVG failed despite his titanium Dutch balls, and Jose just huffed off into the night.
None of our managers since Fergie have been able to deal with the Board and owners. They, sure as shit, are going nowhere, so what sort of manager could take them on, or deal with them in some tentative and hopefully successful pact? A deal with the devil in other words if you will! Is Poch the man? Has he built what he has built at Spurs despite the financial constraints imposed by Levy, and would coming to United be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?
We are stuck with our owners and board for the foreseeable future alas so perhaps we need a manipulative big balled bastard who can manipulate and cajole the board, playing the game with them but remaining his own man while knocking us back into shape.
But who? I just don't know anymore.
These are just some thoughts, written at the end of a match-watching induced migraine and I do not wish to be enemies with anyone on here!
I would just love it if Ole put his hands up and said, "enough is enough and I am stepping down, I can't take this project further." But he isn't going to do that. He probably thinks that would leave us in deeper crisis or he would be seen as a quitter and lose all respect. We still respect you Ole but as a great player, and as an adequate journeyman caretaker. Bow out now, with integrity. I am sure you don't need the money.
The trouble is, who do we get in as a caretaker or permanent replacement? Our Board is a voracious money making machine first and foremost which sucks in managers and grinds them up in the machinery. Fergie succeeded because of his genius, personality and track record. In fact I would say he continued to bring us success in spite of the board. Moyes was Moyes. LVG failed despite his titanium Dutch balls, and Jose just huffed off into the night.
None of our managers since Fergie have been able to deal with the Board and owners. They, sure as shit, are going nowhere, so what sort of manager could take them on, or deal with them in some tentative and hopefully successful pact? A deal with the devil in other words if you will! Is Poch the man? Has he built what he has built at Spurs despite the financial constraints imposed by Levy, and would coming to United be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?
We are stuck with our owners and board for the foreseeable future alas so perhaps we need a manipulative big balled bastard who can manipulate and cajole the board, playing the game with them but remaining his own man while knocking us back into shape.
But who? I just don't know anymore.
These are just some thoughts, written at the end of a match-watching induced migraine and I do not wish to be enemies with anyone on here!
But the exact same happened under our last manager, and he was top class by all accounts.
The big question is why?
Nit really. Jose won cups and 2nd. So it's clearly different manager yields different result and there's possibility of new manager being better or worse.
I except that the signs are Ole's not up to the job, and perhaps we would be better to let a Pochettino type take over from here, but unless the Glazers et al stump up fast with the kind of offers required to ensure those top players do come here and quickly, the underlying problems will remain.
We need to show massive intent in the market to get those first top key players, the likes of those already mentioned, into the squad, not cheaper substitutes.
Showing that kind of intent should encourage further top targets to join as they see what we are building. Only the Glazers or another owner can turn this around now.
Another issue is wages though, with massive signings come massive salaries especially when they know what we paid sanchez, are paying our goalkeeper and potentially intend to pay Pogba.
United have always had a target of no more than 50% of income being spent on wages and we are already at 53% due to the mismanagement of Woodward so don’t see it happening.
ANOTHER QUESTION FOR PEOPLE VOTING "SACK"
If we get Pogba, AWB, Martial & Shaw back and we put in an amazing performance v Liverpool and beat them 3-0...
Would you change your vote to "KEEP"?
If we get Pogba, AWB, Martial & Shaw back and we put in an amazing performance v Liverpool and beat them 3-0...
Would you change your vote to "KEEP"?
Anyone still wanting Ole in place doesn’t have the clubs best interests at heart.
Yes the squad is so poor & scandalous the state it’s got in & we need a huge turnover of players but Ole is NOT the man to entrust with this. He’s been shocking & no signs of an identity being created. Another manager deserves a chance
Yes the squad is so poor & scandalous the state it’s got in & we need a huge turnover of players but Ole is NOT the man to entrust with this. He’s been shocking & no signs of an identity being created. Another manager deserves a chance
Even with them we won't beat Liverpool 3-0 putting an amazing performance.
People need to understand it's not a question of winning a single game(although this is rare occasion anyway), rather than having no plan on the pitch and probably during training. We're regressing with unimaginable speed and even if we win against Pool we still are not consistent enough to put something better than mid table finish.
Those players aren’t going to come here even if we want them and the owners aren’t going to spend that kind of money.
Cheaper realistic substitutes is exactly what we’re going to have to buy and we need someone who can actually coach players individually and collectively. Someone with a game plan and tactics, expecting a very ordinary manager to do this is inevitably failing.
That’s the only way forward under this ownership someone with the talent to create a team or whose willing to spend money on players they can develop. There’s no point pretending or hoping we act like an elite club because we aren’t.
Standards have fallen so much at United that Maguire, AWB and James have been declared as absolute successes already. They are talents but they are far from proven at United yet.
Can you add in your opinion to statements like that please.
No, would be a PSG type anomaly.
We keep saying this and nothing happens. The squad might be poor but it is not that poor that we cannot go to Newcastle and win.
Newcastle players probably waking up today feeling fresh, we did not make them work for the result. It is not like they were brilliant.
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