Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[elmo]

Have I missed something? Rodgers is miles ahead. I don't see it. Serial bottler, remember he was 5 points clear with 3 games to play with Liverpool. Joined a Celtic team on the back of 4 consecutive titles...and won the league. I don't think he would turn this team around.

We have had two world class managers come to the club in the last 6 years. Manager who have won everything, and they couldn't get the team back to winning. There is something fundamentally wrong and we can't keep pointing the finger at the manager.

He's got an inferior squad compared to us and nearly finished on par with us last season.

Yes, our squad has problems and it's mainly down to the fact that the manager isn't respected by the board who sees them as replaceable assets while underperforming players get their way because they're more valuable to the commercial side for the club.

But that doesn't change the fact that Ole has shown nothing in his managerial career to be better than Rodgers.

 

[Craig Ward]

So a mediocre manager and a mid table position is alright for you? Not for me for United.

Never did i say i was happy to finish mid table.

It's shambolic we aren't competing. But we are owned and run by people whose primary concern is not winning the premier league unfortunately

 

[Craig Ward]

Funny, Liverpool supporters said exactly the same about their board until they found a top class manager. Their board is still crap just like ours, they money pinch even more than us but what a difference a manager can make, who knew?

Disagree - Liverpool are much better than us in the transfer market.

 

[Leftback99]

Disagree - Liverpool are much better than us in the transfer market.

Miles ahead. It doesn't stop people believing Klopp single handedly picked out every signing though. Like he didn't with Salah:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/liverpool-chief-says-it-wasnt-klopp-who-wanted-to-sign-salah

 

[VP89]

How anyone can draw these types of conclusions and be so sure about them after three games really is baffling.

A month off and everyone had a eureka moment and figured out how to beat us?

More evidence is surely needed.

We were poor vs Sevilla, Southampton and fortunate to beat Leicester. It's not limited to just these 3 games.

 

[Withnail]

We were poor vs Sevilla, Southampton and fortunate to beat Leicester. It's not limited to just these 3 games.

We were only really poor in front of goal against Sevilla. On another day we win that comfortably. Southampton wasn't great and after a long weird season we were less nackered than Leicester and got the job done.

I don't really see a pattern that fits with the performances to date in the PL to form any kind of narrative bar a reductive 'we were poor'

As I said, if performances don't improve he'll be gone but it's all a little premature in my view, especially when other clubs have similar struggles.

 

[VP89]

We were only really poor in front of goal against Sevilla. On another day we win that comfortably. Southampton wasn't great and after a long weird season we were less nackered than Leicester and got the job done.

We were outplayed by Sevilla, to boil it down to just us being poor infront of goal is like rewriting the whole match.

Leicester gifted us a goal, I'm not giving Ole credit for skimming a Leicester side riddled with injuries to vital players.

I don't really see a pattern that fits with the performances to date in the PL to form any kind of narrative bar a reductive 'we were poor'

As I said, if performances don't improve he'll be gone but it's all a little premature in my view, especially when other clubs have similar struggles.

You don't see a pattern? We got 66 points and were very fortunate the teams around us made a fresh restart (Spurs, Arsenal) mid season while Chelsea had a transfer ban and had Lampard start new. And even then it was skimmed, thank feck for the Bruno bounce. The teams we beat were massively beatable teams which came at a good time, but that's all. Our manager is too much like a yo-yo, where he'll hit a patch of good form and then terrible form, before hitting good form again. You can pass it off for the first few months but he'll be in the role for 2 years come December with form that likely looks unimproved.

What's arguably worse, the players are now all doubting Ole's credentials massively as a top manager. When this happens it's a matter of time before shit really hits the pan.

 

[el3mel]

So if we sacked Woodward, Ole would win us the league? Trying to see through the logic of some posters here.

 

[VP89]

So if we sacked Woodward, Ole would win us the league? Trying to see through the logic of some posters here.

The answer I bet would be, we don't know but he deserves the chance to try

 

[dove]

Disagree - Liverpool are much better than us in the transfer market.

Players always look better in the winning team. The likes of Robertson, TAA, Firmino etc would be on our deadwood list long time ago.

 

[Idxomer]

We were completely outplayed by Sevilla, to boil it down to just us being poor infront of goal is like rewriting the whole match. They had 25 shots to our 6, dominated possession and thoroughly controlled the game. I think we only had a single shot on target.

I think you're misremembering the game or mixing it with another one, United had more shots on target, more clear chances, and just a bit less possession than Sevilla because of the 1st half after the penalty.

 

[VP89]

I think you're misremembering the game or mixing it with another one, United had more shots on target, more clear chances, and just a bit less possession than Sevilla because of the 1st half after the penalty.

I am indeed, I took that part out.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The answer I bet would be, we don't know but he deserves the chance to try

There's a plethora of excuses for Ole and the list continues to grow. I see now that he apparently didn't want AWB and Maguire. Funny, because last season both signings were used as rationale to praise Ole.

I'm struggling to keep up with the mental gymnastics and revisonisnmn regarding our performances last season. I feel his staunch defenders are merely lining up their excuses as they know the walls are closing in on him.

 

[Judas]

So if we sacked Woodward, Ole would win us the league? Trying to see through the logic of some posters here.

No the logic is if above Ole is sorted out, then a new manager coming in has a chance of being a success, as he won't have his hands tied behind his back the second he makes progress.

Even if Ole was backed I still don't think long term he's good enough, but while everything remains the same in the boardroom, no manager is coming in and getting us challenging for the title. If they didn't back Ole once he made top four, they're not backing the next mug they get in who does it.

Of course we will bin off Ole and we'll improve a bit, but they'll get us to a certain place again and history will without a shadow of a doubt repeat itself, unless this manager really is good at his job and can get us challenging with the restrictions this regime puts in place.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Players always look better in the winning team. The likes of Robertson, TAA, Firmino etc would be on our deadwood list long time ago.

Pretty much. TAA's performances for Liverpool and England are night and day. Wonder has that got something to do with one having a world class manager and the other having a bang average manager...

 

[OleBoiii]

So if we sacked Woodward, Ole would win us the league? Trying to see through the logic of some posters here.

I haven't read all the posts, but I doubt that anyone has claimed anything remotely close to that.

Ole has generally done very well when he's had a decent team to field. In 2019, if we exclude the games where we had neither Pogba nor Bruno(20 games), then we averaged 2.1 points per game. That is really good for a team that according to anyone who knows football is nowhere close to winning the league.

So far there is much evidence that Solskjær is a good coach when his team is decent, and more or less no evidence of the contrary apart from the last 4 games. The only thing you could fault Solskjær for is his results when key players are missing. But looking at our bench and looking at the sort of football Solskjær wants to play, there is no wonder that we struggle when injuries strike. I don't think any coach in this world would be able to do much with Lingard or Pereira as the link between midfield and attack. Not unless the rest of the team is world class or bordering to it.

I could understand the criticism if we went through a long, poor spell with our first XI(or something close to it), but this is clearly not the case. It's quite simple based on the current facts:

- Solskjær + a decent team = a lot of points.
- We're exceptionally vulnerable to injuries for two reasons: 1) first XI is only good-ish. It only takes one key injury to make lots of damage. 2) Our bench, up until now, has been very poor.
- In order to improve our results or make sure that we don't lose ground, we need to sign more players. And they have to be quality, obviously.

I don't think Solskjær can do much about injuries or the transfer budget/dealings. Hence: Solskjær is not the problem. Sure, it would be nice to have a coach who is a master of making shit players look great, but long-term it doesn't solve anything(unless the coach literally is a Fergie clone). We need to have good players. It's easily the most important aspect. The players you have at your disposal probably accounts for 70-80% of the outcome.

We're stuck in a loop, honestly. If we do find a coach that manages to do OK with very little, then Woody will conclude that nothing needs to be done. This will stop us from becoming a true force. But if the coach is unable to do this, then Woody will step on the break pedal and doom whoever is in charge. It happened with LVG, it happened with Mourinho, and it's very likely that it will happen to Ole.

 

[el3mel]

I haven't read all the posts, but I doubt that anyone has claimed anything remotely close to that.

Ole has generally done very well when he's had a decent team to field. In 2019, if we exclude the games where we had neither Pogba nor Bruno(20 games), then we averaged 2.1 points per game. That is really good for a team that according to anyone who knows football is nowhere close to winning the league.

So far there is much evidence that Solskjær is a good coach when his team is decent, and more or less no evidence of the contrary apart from the last 4 games. The only thing you could fault Solskjær for is his results when key players are missing. But looking at our bench and looking at the sort of football Solskjær wants to play, there is no wonder that we struggle when injuries strike. I don't think any coach in this world would be able to do much with Lingard or Pereira as the link between midfield and attack. Not unless the rest of the team is world class or bordering to it.

I could understand the criticism if we went through a long, poor spell with our first XI(or something close to it), but this is clearly not the case. It's quite simple based on the current facts:

- Solskjær + a decent team = a lot of points.
- We're exceptionally vulnerable to injuries for two reasons: 1) first XI is only good-ish. It only takes one key injury to make lots of damage. 2) Our bench, up until now, has been very poor.
- In order to improve our results or make sure that we don't lose ground, we need to sign more players. And they have to be quality, obviously.

I don't think Solskjær can do much about injuries or the transfer budget/dealings. Hence: Solskjær is not the problem. Sure, it would be nice to have a coach who is a master of making shit players look great, but long-term it doesn't solve anything(unless the coach literally is a Fergie clone). We need to have good players. It's easily the most important aspect. The players you have at your disposal probably accounts for 70-80% of the outcome.

We're stuck in a loop, honestly. If we do find a coach that manages to do OK with very little, then Woody will conclude that nothing needs to be done. This will stop us from becoming a true force. But if the coach is unable to do this, then Woody will step on the break pedal and doom whoever is in charge. It happened with LVG, it happened with Mourinho, and it's very likely that it will happen to Ole.

Can Ole win us the league? Will change of ownership and CEO make Ole win us the league? If not, what is the point of him staying exactly, and at one point will it be "that's enough, time to hire someone else capable of winning the league instead of being content with some patches of good results and top 4 finish"?

 

[Withnail]

I am indeed, I took that part out.

You can't just delete your rationale and yet stick to your claim we were outplayed when it was based on some fictional match where we had one shot on target.
Hilarious in that context that you're claiming I'm the one rewriting the whole match.

We weren't outplayed and created enough chances to win it. We had a horror show in front of goal whereas they scored two of their three shots on target.

As for the rest of it there are legitimate concerns about the manager but no I don't see much in the first three games that tallies with what happened in our poor run last year to form any kind of narrative. The players have looked undercooked with no cohesion much like they do in pre-season. We can see this in the performances of other clubs affected by similar circumstances.

As I said it's too early in my view for this type of talk and then you go into the usual stuff about Bruno being the sole cause of the upturn in form, as if it's devoid of anything the manager did, which is a reductive argument.

 

[VP89]

You can't just delete your rationale and yet stick to your claim we were outplayed when it was based on some fictional match where we had one shot on target.
Hilarious in that context that you're claiming I'm the one rewriting the whole match.

We weren't outplayed and created enough chances to win it. We had a horror show in front of goal whereas they scored two of their three shots on target.

I'm happy to retract the whole of the Sevilla point -it won't really dent the case against Ole's record for us.

As for the rest of it there are legitimate concerns about the manager but no I don't see much in the first three games that tallies with what happened in our poor run last year to form any kind of narrative. The players have looked undercooked with no cohesion much like they do in pre-season. We can see this in the performances of other clubs affected by similar circumstances.

As I said it's too early in my view for this type of talk and then you go into the usual stuff about Bruno being the sole cause of the upturn in form, as if it's devoid of anything the manager did, which is a reductive argument.

Outside of Fulham I cannot find a team that looks progressively worse after 3 games, so the pre-season relative narrative goes out the window. We were shite vs Palace and people said it was rustiness. Ole said before Brighton we've worked at it and put it aside, and then we actually performed worse versus Brighton. Then the following week we managed to top it off by looking even worse against Tottenham. When you factor how inconsistent we were over the course of last season on top, of course it's a damning PL record for a manager of Manchester United, who is in the role almost 2 years.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I haven't read all the posts, but I doubt that anyone has claimed anything remotely close to that.

Ole has generally done very well when he's had a decent team to field. In 2019, if we exclude the games where we had neither Pogba nor Bruno(20 games), then we averaged 2.1 points per game. That is really good for a team that according to anyone who knows football is nowhere close to winning the league.

So far there is much evidence that Solskjær is a good coach when his team is decent, and more or less no evidence of the contrary apart from the last 4 games. The only thing you could fault Solskjær for is his results when key players are missing. But looking at our bench and looking at the sort of football Solskjær wants to play, there is no wonder that we struggle when injuries strike. I don't think any coach in this world would be able to do much with Lingard or Pereira as the link between midfield and attack. Not unless the rest of the team is world class or bordering to it.

I could understand the criticism if we went through a long, poor spell with our first XI(or something close to it), but this is clearly not the case. It's quite simple based on the current facts:

- Solskjær + a decent team = a lot of points.
- We're exceptionally vulnerable to injuries for two reasons: 1) first XI is only good-ish. It only takes one key injury to make lots of damage. 2) Our bench, up until now, has been very poor.
- In order to improve our results or make sure that we don't lose ground, we need to sign more players. And they have to be quality, obviously.

I don't think Solskjær can do much about injuries or the transfer budget/dealings. Hence: Solskjær is not the problem. Sure, it would be nice to have a coach who is a master of making shit players look great, but long-term it doesn't solve anything(unless the coach literally is a Fergie clone). We need to have good players. It's easily the most important aspect. The players you have at your disposal probably accounts for 70-80% of the outcome.

We're stuck in a loop, honestly. If we do find a coach that manages to do OK with very little, then Woody will conclude that nothing needs to be done. This will stop us from becoming a true force. But if the coach is unable to do this, then Woody will step on the break pedal and doom whoever is in charge. It happened with LVG, it happened with Mourinho, and it's very likely that it will happen to Ole.

You're describing someone who's being carried by the quality of his players.

You call the players 'decent' but in reality it's Ole that's a decent manager at best. The players are quality.

 

[Kurton]

Miles ahead. It doesn't stop people believing Klopp single handedly picked out every signing though. Like he didn't with Salah:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/liverpool-chief-says-it-wasnt-klopp-who-wanted-to-sign-salah

So Klopp was given a player who he didn't want but he still made him world class, sounds like you defeated your own argument. So not all managers get what they want everytime, not a big news is it.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

There's a plethora of excuses for Ole and the list continues to grow. I see now that he apparently didn't want AWB and Maguire. Funny, because last season both signings were used as rationale to praise Ole.

I'm struggling to keep up with the mental gymnastics and revisonisnmn regarding our performances last season. I feel his staunch defenders are merely lining up their excuses as they know the walls are closing in on him.

It's getting funny now. Apparently none of our signings were Ole's picks

 

[OleBoiii]

Can Ole win us the league?

Nobody knows, but if he can average 2.1 points per game with the current starting XI, then it's not unlikely that he could win a major trophy provided he got Sanchez + a DM/CB + some bench padding ala Van De Beek.

Will change of ownership and CEO make Ole win us the league?

See above: nobody knows, but if the new CEO was willing to invest more, then it would make an extreme difference.

If not, what is the point of him staying exactly, and at one point will it be "that's enough, time to hire someone else capable of winning the league instead of being content with some patches of good results and top 4 finish"?

Did you read the last part of my post? This is where the "infinite loop" comes in. But in case I wasn't clear: we'll never achieve long-term success with the current owners. At least not until we strike gold and sign the next Fergie. Mourinho couldn't save us. Pep could definitely not save us, even if he was available. Klopp might have had a chance, but that ship has sailed.

 

[man united 4eva]

The way things are going at the moment and if our current form continues then i expect Ole will be sacked after the Everton game in November at the very latest..

 

[el3mel]

Nobody knows, but if he can average 2.1 points per game with the current starting XI, then it's not unlikely that he could win a major trophy provided he got Sanchez + a DM/CB + some bench padding ala Van De Beek.



See above: nobody knows, but if the new CEO was willing to invest more, then it would make an extreme difference.



Did you read the last part of my post? This is where the "infinite loop" comes in. But in case I wasn't clear: we'll never achieve long-term success with the current owners. At least not until we strike gold and sign the next Fergie. Mourinho couldn't save us. Pep could definitely not save us, even if he was available. Klopp might have had a chance, but that ship has sailed.

I'm asking a simple question that doesn't need paragraphs to reply on. If you want Ole to stay and blame Woodward for him failing, you have to actually believe Ole is good enough to win us the league in the future. If you don't think he can or not sure of his ability to do so, then him staying, regardless of Woodward position is totally pointless, unless the future targets of United won't include winning the league anyway and be content with patches of good results here and there and consistent top 4 finish. If you believe Ole can win us the league at one point, good for you, if you aren't sure, don't think so or don't know, then your point is lost. This isn't directed towards you really, but it's a general question I have asked.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Playing De Gea instead of Romero in the Europa league semi final, played Rashford and Maguire through injuries, rushed Pogba back from injury, overplayed our best eleven in the restart, overplays players like Maguire, Rashford, Pogba etc during spells of dreadful form.... To me this shows a manager that's a bit too reliant on individual quality. Wonder what would have happened if he managed a team like Cardiff

 

[smi11ie]

I reckon Klopp could take a run at the title with United's current squad. I can't say the same about Ole.

Imagine Ole in charge at Liverpool. Would they make the top 6? I don't think so.

 

[OleBoiii]

I'm asking a simple question that doesn't need paragraphs to reply on. If you want Ole to stay and blame Woodward for him failing, you have to actually believe Ole is good enough to win us the league in the future. If you don't think he can or not sure of his ability to do so, then him staying, regardless of Woodward position is totally pointless, unless the future targets of United won't include winning the league anyway and be content with patches of good results here and there and consistent top 4 finish. If you believe Ole can win us the league at one point, good for you, if you aren't sure, don't think so or don't know, then your point is lost. This isn't directed towards you really, but it's a general question I have asked.

I'll make it easy then: with proper investment, not the current half-measures from the board, I believe that Ole can win the league in the future.

Without it, I don't think he can. But in return, I don't think anyone can. Maybe a once in a generation managerial talent could. But only maybe.

 

[anant]

People need to think a bit more rationally.

Last season - we exceeded expectations - 66 points or not, we were worse than just 2 teams in the league - City and Pool - who were arguably 2 of the 5 best teams in Europe last season. The Bruno excuse doesn't fly, because in that case you need to acknowledge that this is the signing that should have been done 6 months ago, we didn't have Pogba Martial and Rashford for quite a few games. McT got injured when he was hitting form.

That made his position at the club as safe as it could be for any rational person. We were playing good football, we were getting results, we were doing everything right on and off the pitch.

Now, 3 games into the new season, the defence that was among the best not just in terms of goals conceded but also shots against, xG conceded, etc. is now getting shit. Especially at a time when every top defence has struggled. The manager is suddenly not good enough on the basis of 3 fecking games? At least there should be a good enough sample size, because should Ole be sacked this early in the season, this would go down as a knejeerk sacking for obvious reasons.

 

[el3mel]

I'll make it easy then: with proper investment, not the current half-measures from the board, I believe that Ole can win the league in the future.

Without it, I don't think he can. But in return, I don't think anyone can. Maybe a once in a generation managerial talent could. But only maybe.

OK, good for you. Let's see how the others will reply on such question.

 

[Withnail]

I'm happy to retract the whole of the Sevilla point -it won't really dent the case against Ole's record for us.

Outside of Fulham I cannot find a team that looks progressively worse after 3 games, so the pre-season relative narrative goes out the window. We were shite vs Palace and people said it was rustiness. Ole said before Brighton we've worked at it and put it aside, and then we actually performed worse versus Brighton. Then the following week we managed to top it off by looking even worse against Tottenham. When you factor how inconsistent we were over the course of last season on top, of course it's a damning PL record for a manager of Manchester United, who is in the role almost 2 years.

City have been poor and the quality of the opposition comes into play as much as the order of the games.

Last year we had a bad start and then went on unbeaten run to climb the table to third. I'm not really sure how you get inconsistent out of that. We coped better than most with the upheaval of the lockdown etc but I suppose we just got lucky because other teams didn't cope as well as us.

We're not really going anywhere here but regardless, it's still too early in my view. If things are no better by Dec he'll be gone and rightly so.

 

[OleBoiii]

Now, 3 games into the new season, the defence that was among the best not just in terms of goals conceded but also shots against, xG conceded, etc. is now getting shit. Especially at a time when every top defence has struggled. The manager is suddenly not good enough on the basis of 3 fecking games? At least there should be a good enough sample size, because should Ole be sacked this early in the season, this would go down as a knejeerk sacking for obvious reasons.

I don't know what's worse: the fact that only around 75% were "Ole In" in this thread after last season, or the fact that as much as 10% have changed their vote based on the last 3 PL games

 

[Robbie Boy]

City have been poor and the quality of the opposition comes into play as much as the order of the games.

Last year we had a bad start and then went on unbeaten run to climb the table to third. I'm not really sure how you get inconsistent out of that. We coped better than most with the upheaval of the lockdown etc but I suppose we just got lucky because other teams didn't cope as well as us.

We're not really going anywhere here but regardless, it's still too early in my view. If things are no better by Dec he'll be gone and rightly so.

Not too sure why he should get until December though. If we are still a mess over the next 4 to 5 games - which will take us into November- he should be fired. We haven't just started the season poorly, we've been a shambles. Brighton hit the woodwork 5 times and it took a crazy scenario for us to somehow win that game.

 

[tomaldinho1]

No the logic is if above Ole is sorted out, then a new manager coming in has a chance of being a success, as he won't have his hands tied behind his back the second he makes progress.

Even if Ole was backed I still don't think long term he's good enough, but while everything remains the same in the boardroom, no manager is coming in and getting us challenging for the title. If they didn't back Ole once he made top four, they're not backing the next mug they get in who does it.

Of course we will bin off Ole and we'll improve a bit, but they'll get us to a certain place again and history will without a shadow of a doubt repeat itself, unless this manager really is good at his job and can get us challenging with the restrictions this regime puts in place.

That's...well kind of the point. Ole is not a good coach.

If by restrictions you mean 200m in his first season and 80m in a covid window I struggle to see your point. We offered 90m for Sancho - that's a stupid amount of money when you think we aren't a sugar daddy club - you can't blame the board for not being ready to sanction big spending.

We are a club that simply don't follow any kind of logic - we went from Moyes, to LVG, to Mou all proven managers (comparative to Ole) with vastly different styles and then complained when we didn't like the style they played. We then identified (about 5 years to late) the style of football we should be targeting - aggressive, high fitness, high press attacking football and so logically the next move should have been to bring in a manager who had built at least one top team with this style...enter Ole, a club legend but someone who endured a terrible stint at Cardiff and has zero - absolutely zero - track record of building this type of team in a top league. Then we wonder why we aren't seeing evidence of an organised press and why we don't seem to have improved as a team, you only need to look at clubs with vastly inferior resources and players (Southampton & Leeds) to see what a good coach with, crucially, experience of this style of football can do in a short space of time.

There are simply no excuses left for Ole, he has to pick this team up because he has the players and we should still be beating most PL teams given how stacked the squad is.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It doesn't make sense to sack him after 3 games but I just want to get it out there that the plethora of excuses Ole had when he performed poorly since he came isn't valid anymore after this break. We have strong depth now, quality players, and a squad that should be fit.

 

[VP89]

City have been poor and the quality of the opposition comes into play as much as the order of the games.

Sure, but they haven't been as dogshite as us. They were extremely good in the first 45 vs Leeds and Wolves (where they put the game to bed in the latter). At least they don't look progressively bad as the games go by to a disturbing level.

Last year we had a bad start and then went on unbeaten run to climb the table to third. I'm not really sure how you get inconsistent out of that. We coped better than most with the upheaval of the lockdown etc but I suppose we just got lucky because other teams didn't cope as well as us.

Last year we had a terrible start, we were close to relegation than top 4 for an extended period. Our bounce was owing massively to Bruno's arrival but even after that we dipped in performances again and it's carried over to this season. It points to inconsistency, and is reflected by 66 points. 66 is a terribly low figure, we can't say "oh but that got us 3rd", because the way our peers are going this season, you'll be fortunate to get 5th with it.

This isn't based on 3 games, but also on the fact that Chelsea, Leicester, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal will all be in their 2nd year with their manager after their first summer business (akin to how Ole was after getting Maguire/AWB/James). They will undoubtedly improve, but mostly because they have more able coaches than us too.

There was someone who explained it very well. Even a blind squirrel can get some nuts, and Ole has a lot of squirrels by way of individual talent that can clock up patches of points, but that doesn't mean he's not limited as a manager.

We're not really going anywhere here but regardless, it's still too early in my view. If things are no better by Dec he'll be gone and rightly so.

In my opinion, Dec will be too late but that's a difference of opinion is all.

 

[Leftback99]

So Klopp was given a player who he didn't want but he still made him world class, sounds like you defeated your own argument. So not all managers get what they want everytime, not a big news is it.

Defeated my own what argument?

Klopp was given a very good player picked out by an excellent team of analysts. People want to believe everything good about Liverpool is down to Klopp (the manager). It takes far more than that which we don't have regardless who we put in charge.

 

[Withnail]

Not too sure why he should get until December though. If we are still a mess over the next 4 to 5 games - which will take us into November- he should be fired. We haven't just started the season poorly, we've been a shambles. Brighton hit the woodwork 5 times and it took a crazy scenario for us to somehow win that game.

Have you watched that back though? Only one of those was a proper chance. 4 of the 5 were from outside of the box and De Gea had his angles covered. Granted we were poor and got out of jail at the end but the woodwork stuff had been overblown.

I was giving him 10 games and quickly checked the date of the 11th which is I think West ham on Dec 5th but yeah it would be Nov 28th, really.

 

[b82REZ]

City have been poor and the quality of the opposition comes into play as much as the order of the games.

Last year we had a bad start and then went on unbeaten run to climb the table to third. I'm not really sure how you get inconsistent out of that. We coped better than most with the upheaval of the lockdown etc but I suppose we just got lucky because other teams didn't cope as well as us.

We're not really going anywhere here but regardless, it's still too early in my view. If things are no better by Dec he'll be gone and rightly so.

This is the logic our board use, and it seems it's filtering down to the fans now. Waiting until its too late to salvage our season has been the pattern we've followed for our last 3 managers.

Despite some good performances last season, overall the poor performances outweighed the good. Going into this season we look as bad as we did last year. Ole was very lucky to survive the Xmas period, and the Covid break allowed him and us to regroup. He will not have that luxury this year. By now we absolutely should be seeing his ideas translated on the pitch, yet we still have a completed divided fanbase on his performances and style. That is not good for the supposed biggest club in the country.

His time here suggest a "streaky" manager. We will have periods where we look like we've finally cracked it, but Ole's over reliance on his core 11 will lead to burnout, fatigue and obviously poor performances. City aside no club in the country has a second 11, so the drop off in quality has to be managed. For me Ole does not know how to utilise his squad beyond a core 11 or so players. That wouldn't be accepted in the lower leagues and absolutely should not be tolerated here.

The shift in rhetoric to defend him shows that even some of the staunchest Ole In posters are no longer sure what they're defending. Last season his signings were lauded, now their level has declined claims that they weren't his signings have started to creep into the Caf.

 

[Kurton]

Defeated my own what argument?

Klopp was given a very good player picked out by an excellent team of analysts. People want to believe everything good about Liverpool is down to Klopp (the manager). It takes far more than that which we don't have regardless who we put in charge.

Yes he was well scouted, but at the end of the day he was not his choice or at least not his first choice. Shouldn't that apply to Ole as well?