Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bilbo]

Its more about how when there’s something at stake, we buckle under him and take a long time to recover from a slump. Last season we were 4th going into the PSG away game and everyone was saying Utd have a very strong shot of finishing Top 4, then we fell apart with injuries from overplaying, no real rotation used unless forced too and everyone looked tired and we slumped over the line in 6th, getting beat by an already relegated Cardiff at OT on the final day.

This season we fly up to within touching distance of Chelsea and Leicester, then when we get close, that familiar stumble comes back, players get injured, players look gassed from overplaying, no trust in the bench etc... and it looks like we’re staggering over the line again and this year OGS has had his fitness regime in place.

These familiar themes are worrying.

For me this poses a bigger question mark about the overall character of the players. Its pointless and unfair to talk about any planned fitness regimes when we've had an unprecedented break in the season. That will scupper any existing plans, and if we are talking about results and points...well then we have a better record than anyone.

Its always been extremely likely that the last game, opponents being who they are, would be decisive. We were talking about having hope that we could claw enough points back so that the last game was relevant. In fact we only need a draw, which surely would have been a wonderful situation for us starting 8 points behind only 8 games ago.

Let's keep things in perspective and hope that we can finish the job on Sunday. It would be wonderful to secure that and then have a rested squad free to have a no-pressure go at winning the Europa League

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I have probably posted this a few times in the last pages but this is complete and utter bullshit.

I was very happy to point out the obvious weaknesses when we were winning but I got jumped by a flock of top reds ready for a witch hunt.

I wish these type of posts are banned. This attitude of trying to play Billy Big Bollocks because they'd a support a manager who'd have us comfortably midtable in 90% of premier league years just so they can look like the bigger fan when we scrape a shitty result against a bottling LCFC is so, so wrong.

Yep they’re talking absolute rubbish. I also did say the performances against Bournemouth & Southampton weren’t promising & I got told by ‘top reds’ that I didn’t know what I was talking about & any Ole our talk was ridiculous

 

[Rightnr]

You're just making up fantasies though.

Suddenly when we don't win a match everything that wasn't a problem when we were winning is a problem.

You've no idea what motivates the players or what doesn't.

As someone else said we've one of the best records in the league for getting points from losing positions.

How do you explain that?

I don't know, watching SAF shouting at players and getting the team up in the last minute in his 60s worked pretty damn well. Compare this to OGS sitting on his arse and looking like he's got all the vitality of a fish in the Sahara certainly does not scream motivation to me.

As for the other BiB, can we have some numbers. I literally don't remember the last time we got a big result from being a goal down. I do remember we've bottled leads twice against Soton and once against Sheffield United. And in any case, we are meant to be a club that comes back to clinch wins, that's our DNA. But not to secure bloody top 4.

 

[Bilbo]

They always will until he wins a major trophy , did we no lambast Liverpool for Roy Hodgson, Brendon Rogers
And even Rafa who won the CL why because the first two had never won any major trophies!!!
for the record Roy got to a Europa League final with Fulham so I guess Ole should be given a free pass because he lost 3 major semi finals and has us in the top 4 let’s be clear here , any other season 63-64 points is 7th or 8th place and if you think next year will be easier with a resurgent City, Liverpool, Chelsea spending money, Jose happy in London and a Saudi owned Newcastle or Leeds under Bielsa will be a nightmare think again did I mention Leicester and Wolverhampton and Everton under Ancelotti and Arsenal maybe wining a 14th FA Cup , it’s no longer a top 6 but a new top 10 to 11 where everyone has money, we need 5 or 6 major upgrades and an elite level manager that knows how to win trophies !!?

Thats fair. We should be judging Ole at the moment simply on progress, because he inherited a troubling situation. Pressure for trophies should, and will, come later. One step at a time

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Are you just ignoring that Nagelsmann has finished 9th and 3rd his last 2 seasons. Nothing to write home about that Ole can’t achieve. If we finish 3rd on Sunday, how could Nagelsmann have done any better with this squad against Pep’s City and Klopps’ Liverpool?

He did so with a worse squad than Ole and his side are in the quarters of the Champions League currently after dismantling Spurs.

But my point is going forward: Do you trust Ole to compete with Pep and Klopp?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Honestly are his signings really that great?

Besides Bruno, probably not.

We spent 135 m or thereabouts on Maguire and Wan Bissaka. Liverpool spent 82 mil on Van Dijk and Robertson.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

There's still a chance to even finish third. However, Champions league qualification for someone that has spent almost 200m on a team that finished 5 points behind top 4 the previous season should be the minimum

 

[He'sRaldo]

Thats fair. We should be judging Ole at the moment simply on progress, because he inherited a troubling situation. Pressure for trophies should, and will, come later. One step at a time

This is too intangible. IMO in part because even his supporters don't fully believe he can win the Premier League and Champions League against the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, and Zidane.

 

[Foxbatt]

He seems to be worse than even Frank Lampard.

 

[Mainoldo]

He needs to talk to Frank.

That’s how you make subs

 

[Withnail]

He needs to talk to Frank.

That’s how you make subs

Oh to have those options off the bench... Feck them they'd better still lose

 

[Zlaatan]

This isn't even true.

We win today and lose to Leicester we're on 65.

Chelsea lose to scousers and beat Wolves they are on 66.

Leicester go through with 65 pts and better GD.

I worded it a bit poorly, I was trying to say that if they don't get a win from either of their games a win for us today would've placed us in the top 4.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

This is exactly what I am saying. No two matches are the same. Each match is different and it's where his lack of game management is showing. A blind man can see that Pogba was not producing anything today.

When Pogba went off against Southampton our possession % plummeted and we were pinned back even more. I think Ole realised the same would happen again today.

 

[Bobcat]

I have probably posted this a few times in the last pages but this is complete and utter bullshit.

I was very happy to point out the obvious weaknesses when we were winning but I got jumped by a flock of top reds ready for a witch hunt.

I wish these type of posts are banned. This attitude of trying to play Billy Big Bollocks because they'd a support a manager who'd have us comfortably midtable in 90% of premier league years just so they can look like the bigger fan when we scrape a shitty result against a bottling LCFC is so, so wrong.

Its because you cling to the past. We are not the Man Utd of Fergie and we will probably never be in our lifetime again

Thats a fact. We have been varying degrees of shite for years now under several acclaimed managers and with the state we were in 1,5 years ago im happy we look to be on an upward trajectory. I enjoy watching us now and look forward to the next season.

Imagine being an Arsenal fan now, they look like missing out on Europe alltogether and losing their best player. Thats pretty bad for a club their size. Liverpool fans are happy today, but they have not won the league in 30 fecking years

Get some perspective

 

[Rightnr]

This thread should be against the definition of 'fall in standards' in the dictionary. So many are happy to become the new Liverpool and wait >20 years for a title.

 

[glazed]

This attitude of trying to play Billy Big Bollocks because they'd a support a manager who'd have us comfortably midtable in 90% of premier league years just so they can look like the bigger fan when we scrape a shitty result against a bottling LCFC is so, so wrong.

We have a winner

 

[Desert Eagle]

Its because you cling to the past. We are not the Man Utd of Fergie and we will probably never be in our lifetime again

Thats a fact. We have been varying degrees of shite for years now under several acclaimed managers and with the state we were in 1,5 years ago im happy we look to be on an upward trajectory. I enjoy watching us now and look forward to the next season.

Imagine being an Arsenal fan now, they look like missing out on Europe alltogether and losing their best player. Thats pretty bad for a club their size. Liverpool fans are happy today, but they have not won the league in 30 fecking years

Get some perspective

When fergie came we weren't the man utd of fergie but we had Charlton, Best, Edwards,Busby in our past and he pushed us to reclaim our rightful place as the greatest club in England. If we have a manager whose entire purpose is not to keep us on the throne then he should not be here. The more fans like you lower our standards the faster we risk becoming like Arsenal.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

He did so with a worse squad than Ole and his side are in the quarters of the Champions League currently after dismantling Spurs.

But my point is going forward: Do you trust Ole to compete with Pep and Klopp?

He finished 3rd with a team that has outspent every other team in Germany excluding Bayern and Dortmund in the last 2 years. They finished exactly where their spending should have them. Also the competition of opponents in Germany is weaker than in the PL.

Nagelsmann has not over achieved in the last 2 seasons either and his season before that seems to suggest it is an outlier rather than the norm.

 

[Withnail]

When Pogba went off against Southampton our possession % plummeted and we were pinned back even more. I think Ole realised the same would happen again today.

Well that's it. He's emptied the bench in numerous matches and no one's staked a claim for whatever reason.

If any of those lads had come on and played well he probably would have given them a start here or there.

 

[Withnail]

I worded it a bit poorly, I was trying to say that if they don't get a win from either of their games a win for us today would've placed us in the top 4.

Ah ok. Yeah there was certainly something to be gained from winning tonight in the permutations.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He finished 3rd with a team that has outspent every other team in Germany excluding Bayern and Dortmund in the last 2 years. They finished exactly where their spending should have them. Also the competition of opponents in Germany is weaker than in the PL.

Nagelsmann has not over achieved in the last 2 seasons either and his season before that seems to suggest it is an outlier rather than the norm.

Ironic considering how awful the Prem is this season. Top 4 is being handed to us and we're stumbling over the line.

Points-wise we're behind Jose's tally when we finished 6th in his 1st season and I think we're still behind in points from Moyes' disastrous season.

I'll ask you again: Do you trust Ole to compete with Pep and Klopp going forward?

 

[Web of Bissaka]

So my post was removed. Would be better and easy to simply edit it.

Anyway, what're the advantages of 4231 over 433?

Seriously though, I like to understand Ole's obsession with it and the rational justification behind it, surely there're actually a plan and thinking in choosing it.. or not.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

So my post was removed. Would be better and easy to simply edit it.

Anyway, what're the advantages of 4231 over 433?

Seriously though, I like to understand Ole's obsession with it and the rational justification behind it, surely there're actually a plan and thinking in choosing it.. or not.

Ole came in using a 3 man midfield. I don't know why he's pivoted from it.

I hate using a double pivot in today's football. Bruno and the midfielders are often too far apart.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I do feel sorry on Ole.
I honestly don't think he's good enough, but what he has done is earned some time, although if we do fail to get top 4, then to me, he should go, as has every other manager, but top 4 alone next season wouldn't be good enough for me. At least a challenge, a push in the right direction, not just clinging on to 4th place.

What frustrates me though, and maybe this is down to the player, the manager or both, but I sometimes think we lack close control consistency.
We struggle to play small triangular play. We didn't create much today, but the one time we managed to string a few quick, short passes together we got in behind and scored, but on too many occasions we put to much power on a pass, or a ball gets away from the foot rather than a soft touch.

When we play against these teams that want to sit and soak up the pressure, we need to be better at this.
That being said, we need to speed up our play. Since the Villa game, we've strolled along with the ball too much. Rather than trying to panic their players with quick player, we're happy to stand with the ball at the feet and look for another sideways pass. Today more than most, the amount of passes backwards was disappointing.

Whether that's down to how the manager wanted to play or tiredness I don't know, but that all falls on the manager.
The lack of rotation since the restart has caught up with us. Clearly doesn't trust Fred or McTominay right now and we need then more than ever

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ironic considering how awful the Prem is this season. Top 4 is being handed to us and we're stumbling over the line.

Points-wise we're behind Jose's tally when we finished 6th in his 1st season and I think we're still behind in points from Moyes' disastrous season.

I'll ask you again: Do you trust Ole to compete with Pep and Klopp going forward?

I trust Ole more than I would trust Nagelsmann.

Also this season wasn’t really about league finish for what I would be happy with long as we finished top 6. It was more about clear improvement and direction. Ole has done a lot of good work, and considering how light our team is in quality and depth, to be sitting 3rd going into the final game of the season is a good achievement.

All the work that has been done behind the scenes is just as important as the league finish this season.

If we do badly next season then I will hold my hands up and say yeah he isn’t good enough but so far I have seen a lot more positives than negatives.

 

[edgecutter]

Last time I checked you don’t get a prize for runners up or top 4.

Spurs were not unfancied the year they came 3rd in the league behind Leicester and Arsenal. They were favourites to win the title in the 2nd half of the season then capitulated badly and finished 3rd.

Ole took over a very tough job at United. The squad was aging, one of the oldest in the league, full of dead wood, had the worst fitness in the league, played awfully defensive football and had players with terrible attitudes at the club.

Most of the above has been removed whilst giving academy players more chances and he hasn’t even had 2 full seasons.

Poch’s first season he finished 5th. This is Ole’s first full season where we could either finish 3rd or 5th on the final day of the season, unfair to judge him on last season as he joined in mid December when the club had only 26 points from 17 games with 0 GD.

Poch got Spurs to a CL final after 5 years and also won 0 trophies in 5 years. But yeah judge a manager who had 5 years to bring success and brought none vs a manager who is in his first full season.

Ole has been finicially backed whil Poch wasn't. I don't think Ole has done a brilliant job, it's been adequate at best with the amount of money he has spent. Poch built Spurs into a Champions League side, he got them competing at the top end of the table consistently, Ole hasn't done any of these, but let's keep bigging up this masterclass job Ole has done.

 

[Bilbo]

This is too intangible. IMO in part because even his supporters don't fully believe he can win the Premier League and Champions League against the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, and Zidane.

Its too early to make that kind of judgement one way or the other. What argument are you going to use? His big game record against these elite managers is excellent so far.

I'm a big Ole supporter. Have been all the way through. I have always thought that there is a question mark about whether he is the right manager for right now, or whether he can take us all the way. For me though its unquestionably the case that he is the right manager for right now. Time will tell on the rest of it.

 

[darko]

I can say that I now look forward to watching United play and they are in a position where they can finish third. Under Moyes, Van Gal and Mourinho they became unwatchable.

Is Ole the manager to take them to the league title? I don't know, but he definitely deserves to be the manager at the start of next season.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ole has been finicially backed whil Poch wasn't. I don't think Ole has done a brilliant job, it's been adequate at best with the amount of money he has spent. Poch built Spurs into a Champions League side, he got them competing at the top end of the table consistently, Ole hasn't done any of these, but let's keep bigging up this masterclass job Ole has done.

This is rubbish. Poch spent £394m while at spurs, not to mention the players who were already there when he joined such as Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Walker, Dier, Lloris.

The 5 seasons before Poch joined, Spurs finished 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th. They were in and around the CL spots for a while before Poch joined.

 

[Tyrion]

Your post is moronic, but that’s what I get for

I explained why it's not. Just because it could be a good season doesn't mean it's moronic to say it might not be.

Getting top 4 will be a good season. And I’m not sure what logic leads to that conclusion either.

You suggested that OGS is a better manager than Poch because he's won a trophy. Rodgers won an absurd amount of trophies at Celtic and did something SAF couldn't at United (i.e. three trebles). But it would be ridiculous to suggest Rodgers is a better manager than SAF because some trophies aren't at the same level as others (e.g. the Norwegian league).

 

[Rhyme Animal]

A well rested Fernandes would've made the difference in this match.

The problem is, Solksjaer doesn't trust himself to win without Bruno on the pitch, and so idiotically has played him for every minute since lockdown, and thus run him into the ground...

Ironically, it's by playing Fernandes every minute that has exposed Solksjaer as sub par coach.

The up turn in goals and results was down to the arrival of Bruno - not Solksjaer's management.

I'd sack him and look for a proper manager.

But if Top 4 is secured, I think you can understand the Club giving him another season.

It's a forgiving, easy going culture at Utd, and yes, it lends itself to mediocrity, but that's what fans have asked for with Ole - and thus what they're getting.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Wish you could remove the ability to change votes.

 

[Bwuk]

I think we are too easy to play against.

Keep the middle congested and force us outside or to play through our full backs and we aren’t good enough to do so.

Pogba and Bruno are so far apart, half the time Pogba is getting the ball deep and there’s no obvious forward pass. We need to move from the 4231 to 433.

 

[edgecutter]

This is rubbish. Poch spent £394m while at spurs, not to mention the players who were already there when he joined such as Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Walker, Dier, Lloris.

The 5 seasons before Poch joined, Spurs finished 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th. They were in and around the CL spots for a while before Poch joined.

How much has ole been given for his first full season? If we sign sancho, you may find old is coming close to pochs spending in 2 years to his 5 This United team has also been in and around the CL spots too, but because old may get it this is seen as as a great achievement while pochs isn't?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If Solskjaer has said that then wow

The point on the result is true though, isn't it? Final day scenario remains the same (although there could be something to be said about momentum).

Edit: nope I forgot about Chelsea

 

[Rafaeldagold]

The point on the result is true though, isn't it? Final day scenario remains the same (although there could be something to be said about momentum).

Seems like Ole forgot that a win would’ve meant that a loss to Leicester & Chelsea draw would’ve put us top 4- now we’d need Chelsea to lose to get top .4

 

[The holy trinity 68]

How much has ole been given for his first full season? If we sign sancho, you may find old is coming close to pochs spending in 2 years to his 5 This United team has also been in and around the CL spots too, but because old may get it this is seen as as a great achievement while pochs isn't?

Ole took over a squad that was in a dire state, plus prices are inflated now compared to when Poch took over. We had to pay £80m for Maguire, in 2015 and 2016 prices for defenders were a lot less than now. Ole’s spending is inflated due to £80m for Maguire and £50m for AWB, these type of players would cost half of that 4/5 years ago.

If you want us to win the title again and think we won’t with Ole then fair enough, but we would never win it with Poch either.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Seems like Ole forgot that a win would’ve meant that a loss to Leicester & Chelsea draw would’ve put us top 4- now we’d need Chelsea to lose to get top .4

Good point, I totally forgot about Chelsea.

 

[Ole90+3]

I do feel sorry on Ole.
I honestly don't think he's good enough, but what he has done is earned some time, although if we do fail to get top 4, then to me, he should go, as has every other manager, but top 4 alone next season wouldn't be good enough for me. At least a challenge, a push in the right direction, not just clinging on to 4th place.

What frustrates me though, and maybe this is down to the player, the manager or both, but I sometimes think we lack close control consistency.
We struggle to play small triangular play. We didn't create much today, but the one time we managed to string a few quick, short passes together we got in behind and scored, but on too many occasions we put to much power on a pass, or a ball gets away from the foot rather than a soft touch.

When we play against these teams that want to sit and soak up the pressure, we need to be better at this.
That being said, we need to speed up our play. Since the Villa game, we've strolled along with the ball too much. Rather than trying to panic their players with quick player, we're happy to stand with the ball at the feet and look for another sideways pass. Today more than most, the amount of passes backwards was disappointing.

Whether that's down to how the manager wanted to play or tiredness I don't know, but that all falls on the manager.
The lack of rotation since the restart has caught up with us. Clearly doesn't trust Fred or McTominay right now and we need then more than ever

I agree with everything here. Well said. Far too pedestrian and lacking in aggression. Very little pattern in passing and movement when attempting to progress up the pitch.

Is it acceptable to always put this down to tiredness caused by lack of rotation? Tiredness was the supposed cause of a lot of the same issues at the end of last season.

For me, there’s certainly errors in coaching and fitness training.

A lot of fans who are fully behind the current regime seem to be putting a lot of belief in new signings making the major difference between us contending for 4th place and challenging for the title.

I honestly think there’s much more difficult problems to resolve at the club with the managerial and coaching staff, as well as the obvious playing personnel needing upgraded.

 

[crossy1686]

If Solskjaer has said that then wow

I mean, he's not wrong but it's not what we wanted to hear. Suspect he just wants Sunday over and top 4 confirmed before he can do the things he really wants to.