I think a marked difference is the improvement the longer he's been here. With Van Gaal, his first season improved as it went on then went so far down in his 2nd year, and half way through the 2nd season everyone was sick of it. There were some positives at the end of his 2nd season, mainly the use of the youngsters, but it was obvious it was time to move on from him. Mourinho similarly started off strong and showing lots of positives. First half of the 2nd season showed improvements, and then all went down hill from January 2018 that by the end of the season where we finished, we were all sick of him and knew it was a matter of time til he imploded. Yet we finished 2nd. This is just different now. Ole might not lead us to a title, but I definitely believe that he's the right person to have in charge right now and he's doing all the right things.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Meh, he's not all that. Huge question marks on whether he has the ability to lead teams to win trophies. He had an excellent team at Tottenham and ultimately failed to win anything despite all of their rivals going through waves of rebuilding.
There's a reason why none of the top tier teams have immediately snapped him up.
To put his time at Spurs into perspective, his largest unbeaten record is 17. We're on 16 currently with Ole, he's just as much of a gamble as Ole is imo.
On top of that, think it's important to realize that unlike those other false dawns and even Ole's promising start, he has been able to get the side playing extremely competent football after such a horrible start to the season. That speaks a lot to his man management and belief in himself to turn things around. Those earlier promising purple patches were all at the start of a tenure or season and things went on a downward curve from there. It's clear that the players respond to him and really that's half of the battle in football management. Now that he's closer to building his ideal team (i.e. Bruno and the summer signings) we are starting to reap the rewards of sticking with him in the tough moments.
Someone mentioned LVGs first season and while they had some nice results, for the most part the performances were concerning in the matches that they should have been winning. The 5-3 capitulation at Leicester in his first season was the point where you realized that even with some good players, the team and tactics were nowhere near what was required.
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I don't really disagree with any of this. I think in a couple of months it is gonna be clearer if the improvement has been real, or it was just another purple patch.
This is a huge red flag that all of Poch's supporters conveniently sidestep. Do I think a top-level manager could win trophies with that Spurs side from last couple of seasons? Yes they could, you have the likes of Kane, Son, and Alli, previously had a great CAM in Eriksen, a fantastic back 4, and a world cup winning GK. They also have some decent depth options with Lucas and Lamela. Our starting XI only recently is starting to reach that level. While they may not have had the squad depth and luck with injuries required to win a league title, they surely could have won a cup or two in that time. I think a big factor is that Poch has a poor mentality for a top club and this seeps down to the players: https://www.skysports.com/football/...o-and-tottenham-always-want-to-be-in-top-four. Those quotes at the time were prophetic in many respects and should serve as a stern warning to any top club wanting to win trophies with this guy.
Definitely. I wouldn't call it a question mark like Redsky, it is a total red flag screaming 'Stay Away'.
Totally agree. More than happy with Ole at the moment and long may the current run continue. Its always a good sign when us supporters are looking ahead to the next game.
Sack him, sack him now, can't be doing with this winning matches lark.
There’s another thing most people miss. “How many managers get back on track after a run like Ole had?” When you lose that many games and are so poor so often, the manager generally loses the confidence of the dressing room and there’s no coming back. It starts with a worsening record in big games and ultimately the team starts losing even the easy ones. The one thing that stood out during Ole’s darkest days was that he never lost the dressing room - and quite perversely won most of the big games. It showed (In hindsight, for me, I must admit) that there was something the squad bought into with him and that tactically he wasn’t entirely naive - but massively inhibited by the tools at his disposal (not calling him a genius just yet but let’s stop all the “PE teacher” crap please). Poch went into a slide and there was clearly no coming back. The same occurred with Moyes, LvG and Jose here. No tears seemed to have been shed in the dressing room when either of the trio were binned (quite the contrary really).
Nah, tonnes of people have admitted they were wrong already.
I agree Ole would primary be judged if we qualify for Champions league or not esp by the board
That, and his abysmal record against the top sides. So abysmal that the Poch supporters always avoid that conversation.
You seriously think ole is getting sacked if he doesn’t make CL? No chance at all. (We’ll make it anyway)
Can’t believe there are still 40%+ who still think he should be sacked immediately or at season end. Have to assume majority are very light users of cafe, else it makes no sense whatsoever.
Some of them probably have migrated to another forum I think
I suggest you reread what I said
Again, reread what I actually said rather than arguing points I didn't make.
They are probably mostly opposition fans that don't want us to return to glory!
Heard that there's a lot of them on here. That's the only way it makes sense!
Ole is staying for now and I am happy with that.
Give him a new 5 year deal after we make the Champions League
Majority were right about binning Mourinho and majority were right about keeping Ole it seems based on current trajectory.
That last Liverpool game under Mourinho where we parked the bus and removed the axle's seems such a distant memory now thankfully.
That last Liverpool game under Mourinho where we parked the bus and removed the axle's seems such a distant memory now thankfully.
the majority wanted to bin Ole too
My opinion on this at the start of the season was quite straightforward.
I was strongly against Ole's appointment because, put simply I think it left us in City and Liverpool's shadow. They both went out at their last managerial change and appointed big names with lots of success in European football behind them. Both Klopp and Guardiola were fantastic appointments.
Previously Chelsea (Sarri), Spurs (Poch and now Jose) and Arsenal (Emery) had appointed experienced managers.
And then there was United, who were shouting out for a Klopp/ Guardiola type appointment but 'settled' for someone with limited experience, and that virtually exclusively in a very weak European league with his sole English experience being a disaster at Cardiff.
So I raised an eyebrow at the appointment and had major doubts that Ole was the man to bring back the glory days.
He has however, with the squad he now has at his disposal without doubt earned the right to have another season, provided he can keep Pogba happy and playing good football because him and Fernandes in midfield are the absolute key to success in the short term; if they're happy and creating chances then we have the forwards to keep sticking the ball in the net.
I am not yet convinced he is the long term solution as manager. Let's assume Liverpool win the title again next season, and it's a fair bet because nothing suggests City can close the 23 point gap - especially if their UCL appeal is rejected.
We're then tied at 20-20, I still have serious doubts that Ole will put us back in front again.
I'm certainly not shouting for him to be replaced at present, but my concerns above will stand until I'm proven wrong.
I was strongly against Ole's appointment because, put simply I think it left us in City and Liverpool's shadow. They both went out at their last managerial change and appointed big names with lots of success in European football behind them. Both Klopp and Guardiola were fantastic appointments.
Previously Chelsea (Sarri), Spurs (Poch and now Jose) and Arsenal (Emery) had appointed experienced managers.
And then there was United, who were shouting out for a Klopp/ Guardiola type appointment but 'settled' for someone with limited experience, and that virtually exclusively in a very weak European league with his sole English experience being a disaster at Cardiff.
So I raised an eyebrow at the appointment and had major doubts that Ole was the man to bring back the glory days.
He has however, with the squad he now has at his disposal without doubt earned the right to have another season, provided he can keep Pogba happy and playing good football because him and Fernandes in midfield are the absolute key to success in the short term; if they're happy and creating chances then we have the forwards to keep sticking the ball in the net.
I am not yet convinced he is the long term solution as manager. Let's assume Liverpool win the title again next season, and it's a fair bet because nothing suggests City can close the 23 point gap - especially if their UCL appeal is rejected.
We're then tied at 20-20, I still have serious doubts that Ole will put us back in front again.
I'm certainly not shouting for him to be replaced at present, but my concerns above will stand until I'm proven wrong.
Keep him for life. We're going places with the great man, finally some forward movement.
I also have to apologise and admit that I was wrong about him at the start of the season. Now I am more convinced than ever and fully back and trust him until the end of the days. There is no better manager for United in this moment, no matter what anyone says.
Jose was PL winner in his last job with Chelsea.
LVG took Netherlands to the semi finals.
If he gets top 4 then he has proven himself worthy of backing result-wise.
He's already proven himself worthy of backing if the idea is to take another year in nowhere just to upgrade the squad for the next manager.
He's already proven himself worthy of backing if the idea is to take another year in nowhere just to upgrade the squad for the next manager.
Seems I voted to back him but I'll admit there was a point where I was seriously doubting him. He's done very well and his man management seems excellent.
He definitely deserves to stay for 20-21, and 2-3 signings.
This squad is going places with Ole at the wheel. That 5-2 was pure SAF era.
This squad is going places with Ole at the wheel. That 5-2 was pure SAF era.
Exactly
I am still not convinced about long term, if he has a great next season, then I will start getting convinced he can do it. Too many times I was quick to judge either on positive or on negative side of player/manager, so I will just be cautiously positive this time.
Not to mention that they both won trophies with Man Utd. Especially Mourinho in his first season. But people only see what they want to see. Believe what they want to believe.
Exactly. Whatever we think of Jose, in his first season, it looked like we could do something but it fell away because Jose has different ideas to Manutd.
However some seem to have forgotten how dire the football was under both of them. Sure they won a couple of ytophies and have proven track records but they produced teams which played some of the dullest and most lifeless football I have seen since Dave Sextons team.
Irrelevant to the original post. He said they were past it when they clearly weren't. Yet, anyways. The point is they still had proven pedigree at the time.
Not this season but from next season onward.
I personally believe that is minimum requirement for a coach at ManUtd.
Ole could win the title with United, win the treble the following season, take the England job and win the world cup + EC in the same year, become Prime Minister and achieve world domination within a day, Hadouken Jurgen Klopp, EAT St Pep, birth a quintuplet of children, eat a pineapple pizza and remain sane after, ascend to heaven and take god's job, and still this thread would exist on Redcafe.
Sigh.
Sigh.
Yeah, it's sad how things turned out in the end.
As an objective observer, I think he's done a wonderful job so far. The team is starting to look very organized in both defense and attack and there seems to be an understanding among the players in midfield. Give it some more time as I think his philosophy is coming through to the players. In addition, he would have learned player management being one of Fergie's players.
You have gone too far with Pineapple Pizza. Just too far.
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