Cushy number innit, spout shite for a living and not have to back it up.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Cushy number innit, spout shite for a living and not have to back it up.
Really I thought the players were wrong with LVG apart from Blind, Herrera (Who was meant to come the season before IIRC) and Shaw but the he's been pretty up and down.
Your right we are younger and have really ripped out the core of the squad and are rebuilding it
Jose last team vs poo.
De Gea; Dalot, Lindelof,
Subs: Romero, Jones,
Vs the last team
De Gea; Wan-Bissaka, Lindelöf, Maguire, Shaw, Fred, Matic, Williams, Pereira, James, Martial
Subs: Romero, Jones, Bailly, Mata, Dalot, Greenwood
Seven of them are gone or on loan (Smalling) and I don't think he is finished the cutting.
City are 22 point, what does that mean? Pep is rubbish or Liverpoo are having a crazy good season?
He has ripped up the squad and made it younger, I am hoping they are better, we can't see that on the pitch yet.
My 38 point comment was an answer to the 19 point comment when City were having an amazing season. City being 22 behind means Pep is having a rubbish season and Liverpool are having an amazing one but Pep is not rubbish simply because he has a decade of evidence proving otherwise.
We haven’t improved. We just have a better player. The football is still no better than Jose’s. He’s just not a very good manager. I mean we could get him a world class 11 and I’m sure we would compete for the title. But it’s not really the answer. Thank him for his mini rebuild and let’s get back to business on getting us back to the best club in this country.
I struggle to understand how any of our current players who have won nothing in their careers have the right to disrespect anyone who has .
How any fan can take those player's side over the manager is beyond me .
Ole may have won nothing as a manager as of yet but he has been around managers and teams that have so yes I'll take his opinion over a shaw or Lingard etc .
He spent time under Fergie when he was in charge of reserves and I'm sure he picked up enough to give him trust .
Cardiff job means absolutely nothing compared to the Utd job . Fergie was sacked by St Mirren should he have been written off?
How any fan can take those player's side over the manager is beyond me .
Ole may have won nothing as a manager as of yet but he has been around managers and teams that have so yes I'll take his opinion over a shaw or Lingard etc .
He spent time under Fergie when he was in charge of reserves and I'm sure he picked up enough to give him trust .
Cardiff job means absolutely nothing compared to the Utd job . Fergie was sacked by St Mirren should he have been written off?
That is so fecking dumb and irrelevant. After St. Mirren Fergie did amazing things with Aberdeen and took Scotland to the World Cup. After Cardiff Ole went back to the Norweigan league.
Stop comparing him to Fergie, it's embarrassing.
Comparing him with anyone is pointless and irrelevant. Evaluate him on the job he is doing, or don't bother at all. Every situation is different.
Pep and Zidane did have two of best club sides/players ever though, may have helped them a tad bit..
For me that is like saying im not allowed to disrespect Gary Neville as a pundit. I think hes full of shit a lot of the time and he completely failed with Valencia despite spending 2 decades with Saf. I also do not rate someone like maradonna as a all despite being one the best players of all time.
He's lucky every other team is underperforming, doesn't deserve to be kept if he gets us CL not with the amount of points we have.
Why is it suddenly a narrative on here that Ole failed at Molde? Why make things up?
So you knew Fergie would go on to be a great manager after being sacked by St Mirren ?
Gary Neville was sacked by Valencia and spent his entire Career with Saf. If he goes for a manager job again he might become the next Saf who knows...
Seems like the Ole replacement is sorted
It sure did, but both had an instant impact. Look how madrid were doing with Benitez.
This is such a tenuous comparison it should just be dropped on here. SAF did well at St.Mirren and won the first division and the reason they gave for sacking him was that he'd already agreed to join Aberdeen. His career follows a logical pathway of going to bigger and better things each time. Ole's managerial career does not and he's been incredibly fortunate both in getting the job and keeping it through some terrible form.
If you want to find a comparison that's actually similar it's tough, hence why I think so many people have doubts about Ole because he's not earned the right to manage a big European club and a lot of weighting seems to have been put on the fact he used to play for us. However, to think of an example, I think Christian Gross the old Spurs boss is a decent example: Did phenomenally well in a weaker league with Grasshopper (Swiss League/Norwegian League both well outside the strongest European leagues), raised a few eyebrows when he came across to the PL with Spurs (as Ole did with Cardiff) did awfully, got sacked and went back to the Swiss League. Even though he then went on to make Basel a genuine CL team and the dominant force in Switzerland - his career kind of panned out as you'd expect with a few jumps to other leagues with 'ok' teams and some paycheck roles in the Middle East but never getting a chance at a major league again.
The Saf and Klopp conparisons does my head in. Same goes for Pep and Zidane. Might as well argue that Cleverly might have turned into Xavi had we kept him.
Fergie didn't join us after St. Mirren, he joined us after Aberdeen, by then he had earned the respect.
Oh and St. Mirren only "sacked" him because he was joining Aberdeen.
It's an unbelievably stupid comparison.
You're right, and this debate could go on forever. Though It would be interesting to see what Ole would do with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Villa, Dani Alvez etc
Its a stupid debate.
I take it you wouldn't have much faith in Ole with Pep's Barca squad?
It's is a purely hypothecial scenario which never happened and never will happen. I don't know how Ole would do with Peps squad, just like i don't know how Moyes or Big Sam would do with that squad. But it's clear that Pep cleared out the deadwood superstars, promoted the right youth and persuaded Xavi to stay and gave him a important role in the squad. It's also clear that Pep's imprint on the style and tactics of that team was instant.
It's also clear that Zidane was an instant improvement on Benitez and finished runners up with 1 point behind Barca and won the CL.
How Ole would do with Barca's squad I have no freaking idea, but I don't think he would have won the treble in his first season or have made them into arguably the best club side of all time.
The same as what he's doing with Pogba, Rashford, Martial, De Gea, AWB good players and underachieving.
Good players but underachieving yes, the mentioned Barca players though; are either world class or arguably the best ever in their position.. So its not dead certain Ole would still be shite...
Except three of those have been out of the team with injuries for the majority of the season. United have played with 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th choice in midfield most of the season.
How many games di Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets miss in Guardiolas first season?
Edit: Jesus, looking at the 2008 Barca squad, I don't think even John Carver could have fecked up. Even he would have at least won the league.
Comparing Ole to managers like SAF, Guardiola, and Klopp is whole other level of stupidity.
Stupidity and many users of the forum go hand in hand. If anyone should compare a manager to Solskjaer it should be a Steve Bruce ala Gary Neville.
Rashford, Martial and AWB looks to be finishing this as the best season of their career, in terms of personal performance.
Pogba hasn't played much under Ole and has wanted to leave this club for 2-3 years, so he has been inconsistent way before Ole even took over as a manager here. I'd argue his best form at this club came under Ole and lasted about two months before both him and the squad looked like the normal Mourinho squad again. DDG also wanted away, and he has had the same faith in terms of performances.
So to summarise, our best players is having their best season and more than a few good players that previously have struggled at this club have responded well to the management of Ole and looks like they can contribute again. Fred, McTominay, Shaw. Then you have the young guys that has been prioritised by Ole like Greenwood and Williams.
That is 5 players right there that I wouldn't expect to add any real value to the squad when Mourinho was here. Let's look at the whole picture, and not forget what horrible position we were in previously and to some degree still is in. But now things look brighter, and anyone who don't see that has just made up their mind.
Not directed to you but..
I can understand concerns about Ole as a longterm manager, I think almost everyone can. I have them myself. But a scary amount of people looks like they now hate Ole in some way. That I don't understand at all. He isn't like Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho in that way. The players are on his side and the media haven't even been that unfair and ruthless in their criticism as with the previous managers. After our shit years post SAF it's like some fans have been trained to hate the manager after a set amount of time and just can't get out of that habit. I've heard some folks even wanted Ole out even in the hypothetical scenario he won us the league and CL. The reason was that he would still be a prick or something like that. Ole out crowd is way crazier and delusional than any minority blind-faith-in-Ole crowd.
Because he won the title in his first two seasons but then just went backwards from there?
Molde fans will tell you whether they think him leaving to join United was good for their club or not (hint: it was).
Im from Norway, and thats simply not true. Lost key players each season, and Rosenborg had rebuilt. Rosenborg is by far the biggest team in Norway. And has much more money.
Molde had good backing in the first two years of Oles reign, but it went back to normal after his comeback in Norway.
Yes ignore the fact Rosenborg are by far the biggest team in Norway and Ole finished a close second to them his last two seasons .
Your hate for a Utd legend just eats you doesn't it ?
It's always nice when the moaners on here go on about Molde as though they know anything about that time, and then a Norwegian who actually does comes on and corrects them.
It spells A G E N D A.
What Ole did to Molde is taking a team that was almost midtable and turned them into a very good team breaking Rosenborg dominance. Not only on the pitch but also as a club. It would be like taking over Aberdeen and winning Scottish League now in modern time.
I get the feeling our stint with OGS runs parallels with Ronny Deila at Celtic, who was also a lovable Norwegian (difference being Deila was an eccentric, crazy character and OGS is esteemed ex-player) yet out of his depth in the eyes of many Celtic fans. He also talked a good game about fitness and playing good football but seemingly didn't know how to put it into practice. He wasn't too media savvy. He gave chances to youth players. He had inconsistent results and he divided opinions with fans on whether he should go or stay.
I'm reading through some Celtic forum threads now about his reign and it's quite eerie how a lot of this is like Utd right now.
I'm reading through some Celtic forum threads now about his reign and it's quite eerie how a lot of this is like Utd right now.
After Ed’s comments today I think we’re stuck with Ole for a while even when we end up outside of the top 4 & could do so so much better with a better manager. We should be giving a decent manager this team & a summer rebuilding but we’re sticking with smiley Ole who’s only still there as he doesn’t rock the boat & has somehow convinced Ed he’s good enough.
Mediocrity for a long long time it is
Mediocrity for a long long time it is
Yes he has done well empowering individual players. That can't be taken away from him. However on a team wide level he can't seem to translate it into anything halfway cohesive and that's a big weakness. So many first teamers improving should normally see a team playing at more than the sum of its parts. But we aren't because of the reliance on moments of individual brilliance means all these improved players are just taking turns
While that may be true, I think all teams rely on individual brilliance. Especially when we're talking about goals in the tougher games. That's very often what decides matches and can be the key difference between similar teams. It's the moments where nothing happens where it doesn't look like we have cohesion, and we lack a bit but we have definitely improved in that area since Mourinho, imo. However, all teams have those moments throughout a season to varying degrees. In a normal season, a great team simply wont be able to do what they are told to such an extent it looks both effortless and productive all the time. Look at City, a lot of the time they just pass the ball around with no real plan or purpose. That probably isn't what Guardiola want, but maybe it's the weak point of his spesific philosophy so when they can't create they revert back to the passing. It isn't always the best solution to slowly pass as we've seen with LVG. Not if you need a goal.
Every style has an upside and a downside and how it looks when the team can't execute it properly hardly matters, as long as the upside is strong enough to dominate when it works. Teams are always going to rely on being able grind out wins every now and then, and I'd say most of the time goals comes from individual brilliance.
I don't think we are looking like a team playing at more than the sum of it's parts, but I'd certainly not say we are underperforming either. I think Ole has improved players and got them going, but I think it is unfair to expect even more right now from these players and Ole. We aren't exactly stacked with quality and I don't think anyone can really blame Ole for not getting a tune out of Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Jones, etc. It is normal that our consistency and cohesiveness would take a hit because of regularly having to include these players. I'm not able to confidently say we do not suffer because of it, and that our lack of cohesive play is solely in the hands of Ole. I expect to see these players out, and I expect to see improvement in what we're talking about here. If that doesn't happen, firstly I'll be flabbergasted but I'd also be inclined to be very angry at the club at that point, because there is no point in keeping Ole if we're going to continue to do mistakes outside of the pitch. He might be able to manage us if the right things happens outside of the pitch, but he doesn't have the experience to carry Ed on his shoulders and win something with Lingard and Jones. Not that I think anyone could. Sorry for being long-winded, I'm tired.
Imagine us resting a Fernandinho, Sterling and Agüero against Real Madrid? The balls but also the squad depth that City has.
We could be resting Martial, Rashford and Fred ourselves soon if we just get Sancho, Haaland and Partey. And a few others.
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