I get your point about endless rebuild.
But surely if the manager is poor, the rebuild also will be poor.
It seems foolish persistent with someone you know isn't good enough simply because you are tired of starting a process all over again.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
- Start date
- Status
But surely if the manager is poor, the rebuild also will be poor.
It seems foolish persistent with someone you know isn't good enough simply because you are tired of starting a process all over again.
But it's only endless because the club hire completely polar opposite managers and then give them free reign.
This practice clearly stopped after Mourinho's second season, the club are now much more active in identifying players and building the squad, so you'd imagine that they would then only hire a manager who can work with the players and squad that the club identified.
Then it stops being rebuild, new rebuild, new rebuild and just becomes constant progress. If, like at Bayern, the manager isn't good enough to work with that squad, fecker gets fired, NOT 2 years and 400m quid (The United Way
).If we don't win tonight against Chelsea, I think our top 5 chance will be gone. This leaves WINNING the Europa League as our only way into Champions League.
I would like to see Poch as manager, to guide us through this and last 11/12 games but he cannot take over until June. ( cost 10 Million). Allegri is too much like LvG football so we might as well carry on as we are until the Summer.
I would like to see Poch as manager, to guide us through this and last 11/12 games but he cannot take over until June. ( cost 10 Million). Allegri is too much like LvG football so we might as well carry on as we are until the Summer.
The rebuild nonsense really needs to end. The idea that every time you change manager you are basically ripping everything up and starting from scratch again and then you will need to be shite for another 2 years before you see results is not evidenced anywhere else. There will surely be players the manager doesn't fancy or incompatible with the way they want to play, but a good manager would adapt to the resources they have available until they can be changed. Like Klopp did when he was playing Lallana week in week out, as well as Jordan fecking Ibe. There was a system being implemented and then parts of the system could be upgraded and modified with each transfer window.
It still took a few year mate. And yes they were shite for them few year. I am all for change if we can get the right change.
( Manager and Players ) But I still feel that it goes much deeper than the manager here atm.
We have had LvG and Mourinho try and fail to agree with Woody so when or before we bring in a new manager I think we should be looking for a DoF who takes full control of football and transfer matters.
This really, you don't need Ole at wheel for a consistent transfer strategy.
What did LvG fail to agree with Woody on @Bestietom ? Woody bought him every bloody player his heart desired, hell he even agreed to let Nani go for free just so LVG could get his fecking left footed CB, a shit load of money AND NANI, for Marcos Rojo
Schweinsteiger who was clearly washed up, Blind, Depay, I could go on and on.
Mourinho also, for 2 years until he started demanding the likes of Willian and the club thought "this has to stop".
Both said repeatedly, ( and to this day) that Woody had no knowledge about football. I'm not talking about how much they spent, I'm talking about the disagreements between them mainly.What did LvG fail to agree with Woody on @Bestietom ? Woody bought him every bloody player his heart desired, hell he even agreed to let Nani go for free just so LVG could get his fecking left footed CB, a shit load of money AND NANI, for Marcos Rojo
Schweinsteiger who was clearly washed up, Blind, Depay, I could go on and on.
Mourinho also, for 2 years until he started demanding the likes of Willian and the club thought "this has to stop".
Klopp's first full season they got 76 pts in the pl. We are on course for 55 and that's lower than the season before. LVG and Mourinho weren't the right fit for Utd in the end but still had far superior results to Ole.
The idea that because proven managers 'failed' (despite both winning trophies, finishing in cl places and one league finishing second) therefore all proven managers will fail is ridiculous. First of all, 2 managers of this kind is a pretty ridiculously small sample size to go making such hypotheses from. It makes it even stranger that you could be 100% convinced based on two managers, who as it happens both achieved better results than Ole (almost like there's a link between proven capability, experience and success). Secondly, not all proven managers are the same. It's like a company saying 'well our last two experienced CEOs failed, therefore all experienced candidates are the same, and will fail with 100% certainty, therefore we must appoint a rookie with no experience of note in the role. No offence like, but it's honestly an idiotic argument. There's a valid point about who is appointing these CEOs and what are their criteria, but the idea every proven manager is certain to fail... christ on a bike.
Mate NO One can say who will Fail or Prosper as a manager now. There is much more competition than there was years ago. What I'm saying is, it is much better when things are RIGHT in a club.
Manager CEO and players working together as a happy family, is the first step to success.
He has no knowledge about football though. He’s a CEO, does he have to?
But he gave them time and pretty much a who’s who of their favorite players, so what did they disagree on?
I’ve only heard Mourinho say nice things about Woodward, and I’m especially curious as to what LVG and Woodward disagreed on? Apart from firing LVG of course.
Ultimately, I think he will be here until the Glazers are forced to sack Ole and Ed together.
Your guess is as good as mine. We just don't know what goes on at the club, although some seem to think they do. We can only listen to what they ( Managers) say after the Gag is taken off.
The Glazers will never sack Woodward. He basically tripled, if not quadrupled, their money intake from the club.
Well, he's costing them money now. Doubt they have much loyalty to him when $s are at stake.
Why guess? You said it is as fact, so show me something to back that up?
Maybe LVG disagreed with Woodward giving him so much free reign and not saying things like “Schweinsteiger??? he’s fecked, legs have gone, are you kidding me?”
I honestly don’t think LVG could’ve wished for less intrusive superior, never before has he worked with such a free reign .
I don't doubt this is a large part of it. But it's almost like some people think the board wants the team to fail. I get theres a lot of incompetence and a lot of inexperience and dithering and I am no particular fan of the owners or Woodward, but look at the signings they have sanctioned for every manager. You can't really argue they've been tight with the purse strings. I don't think they're holding meetings every day to discuss 'how can we hamper the manager, create a toxic atmosphere at the club and infuriate all the fans?' It is not really in the board's interest for the club to be unsuccessful.
Mate if it's an argument you want, your barking up the wrong tree. Let's end it there.
I don’t want an argument, you categorically stated that the previous two managers disagreed with Woodward, yet you can’t show me a single example of this disagreement? That’s just confusing not arguing.
Many also make the mistake of thinking that the CEO at Manchester United makes all the decisions like a dictator. Decisions on creating the new transfer committee for example are discussed with and made by the board, decisions on new managers are made by the board etc.
Same with a DoF, if the board decide that that is the way they want to go forward then Woodward will have no choice but to go along with it.
For what it’s worth this board actually includes sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill .
He has pissed up €1bn and we are nowhere. His leadership has left us on the verge of having our sponsorship arrangments slashed.
So I think he is costing us money.
Only if you believe he makes every decision. He doesn’t, the board make decisions and if the board aren’t happy with how the club is run they also have the option of bringing in a director of football, Woody can like it or lump it.
I’d imagine Ed is still in the job because people in the club understand more what his role is, and know that he is not a dictator; but that he is going along with decisions discussed and made by the board.
I'm not saying they weren't money there for transfers, there should be. How much have they put into the stadium for refurbishment and how much have they taken out since there time here. Only the ones running the club can create a toxic atmosphere if the fans see or feel things are not right, and that is what it's all about now. Again it all depends on what you treat as unsuccessful. To me only getting into top 4 twice in the last 7 seasons is unsuccessful for our club.
Mate I've just told you they ( LvG and Mourinho ) said this themselves in statements made to the media. I can't go back and get the fecking statements, but I'm sure that others on here can. You don't remember Mourinho and Woodward falling out over not signing him Maguire.
LvG told he had several disagreements with Woody and then got sacked by a text message. He also said he ( Woody) knew nothing about football.
Only isn't a rookie. He's just not proven that he's a PL lvl manager in both his jobs.
Mate, I'll google for you then…
LVG has never ever said he disagreed with Woodward on anything other than his sacking and them hiring Mourinho behind his back. He was given free reign to run the club how he wished, and was handed a who's who of his favourite players from around the World. He was even allowed to do a massive Carrington upgrade which he demanded.
So working with Woodward was no problem at all, getting fired by him was.
Mourinho only says nice things about Woodward himself, but he was unhappy that the club (not the imaginary dictator Ed), decided to put in place a transfer committee after his second season.
I'm unsure how I feel about this one personally, although I think any manager who wants full control shouldn't be here anyway, the club can't keep flip flopping from manager to manager and allowing them to gut the previous manager's squad and build themselves a full new one, the committee in that sense works like a DoF. So in the long term, good, in the short term it was daft of the club to employ someone like Mourinho and later put a transfer committee in place, he was always gonna fume at this.
So two managers there, which you said:
"We have had LvG and Mourinho try and fail to agree with Woody so when or before we bring in a new manager I think we should be looking for a DoF who takes full control of football and transfer matters"
Well, one manager didn't ever disagree with him aside from his sacking and the way it was handled, and.... things have changed, we now have a completely different approach to squad building for the club's best interests, one that isn't solely tied to whoever is sat in the hot seat.
And finally, Woody doesn't control football or transfer matters. He controls the budget. Football is controlled by the manager, transfers are controlled by the transfer committee, of which the manager is one vote, and his assistant has one vote, everyone has a veto.
I'm not getting into anymore with you. Your wasting my time. Talk some football about how we are going now.
Louis van Gaal launches scathing attack on Man Utd chief Ed Woodward
Louis van Gaal was sacked by Manchester United just days after winning the FA Cup and he has let rip at Ed Woodward
Former Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal has aimed a stinging attack at Ed Woodward - claiming he knows 'zero' about football.
The Dutchman was axed by United in 2016 just two days after guiding the club to the FA Cup.
Van Gaal, 67, has blamed United's chief executive for the club's problems and says he simply isn't up to the job.
Woodward has come in for criticism again this season after United's disappointing campaign.
Van Gaal, who has also had spells in charge of Ajax, Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Holland, told German magazine 11 Freunde: "At Bayern, the people in charge are football men. I always appreciated that.
"At Manchester United , on the other hand, Ed Woodward was installed as CEO - somebody with zero understanding of football who was previously an investment banker.
"It cannot be a good thing when a club is run solely from a commercially-driven perspective.
"I don't hold it against the club. They wanted Mourinho and he was on the market."
Van Gaal guided United to fourth and fifth-placed finishes during his time at Old Trafford but never really won over the Red Devils supporters.
The Dutchman added: "Appointing Mourinho was obviously interesting from a business point of view.
"He wins games. And for a club like United, the main thing is to win trophies.
"How they are won isn't the main priority, the English fans see it differently.
You asked me for proof where he said he knew Zero about football, then here is one statement, and there are many others.
So yeah, entirely about his sacking.
Every single sentence is about his sacking man
Not a single word on how Woodward made his job hard or stopped him from getting his team higher in the league than 4th despite massive investment, or prevented him from getting his team to play football that didn't send the entire country to sleep.
LVG disagree with his sacking? Can you believe that? He obviously never watched a game back.
Your worse than my wife. You'll never give in.So yeah, entirely about his sacking.
Every single sentence is about his sacking man
Not a single word on how Woodward made his job hard or stopped him from winning the league, or prevented him from getting his team to play football that didn't send the entire country to sleep.
LVG disagree with his sacking? Can you believe that? He obviously never watched a game back.
Good points, I guess only hope is repeating them til it sinks in.
Believe me I’m no fan of the glazers, used to post an awful lot in the glazers out thread til I gave up. Nevertheless, it is so obviously not their aim for the club to be unsuccessful, despite the parasitic nature of the8r ownership.
What am I giving in to?
LVG dislikes that Woodward and the club sacked him, he never once said Woodward was hard to work with. And we know he wasn't, because aside from more time he granted LVG every one of his wishes.
I'm all for slagging off the owners, but feck me, this club was incredible to LVG up until the sacking (then they were awful), he was granted sooooo much, way too much when we look back.
Do you talk/argue with yourself. Take a calm pill mate, or go and get yourself a few bevvies.
Quote from Van Gaal about Woodward.
Based on that he has problems with him other than his sacking, but it might be worth taking with a pinch of salt given the quote is from after his sacking.
Make your own forum and moderate the shit out of it all you like?
Out of interest, which other current Premier League managers would people prefer over Ole?
Howe, Potter, Dyche Lampard, Hodgson, Ancelotti, Rodgers, Klopp, Guardiola, Farke, Wilder, Hassenhuttl, Mourinho, Pearson and Nuno for me.
Wouldn't pick fat Frank because of his past associations but I do think he'll become a good manager.
If Wilder can sustain his form another couple of seasons then he maybe would be in with a shout.
Right here, right now
Klopp
Pep
Rodgers
Howe
And if Poch counts I'd definitely include him.
- Status