So this is how it looks today`s version of " 2nd, 2nd, 2nd ".
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Agree that those are good stuff Ole has done. But what about the on the pitch stuff? Do you see any evidence of what he is trying to do for us with the ball? It drives me crazy how we can't do simple pass and move stuff. Even fecking Norwich/Sheffield /Brighton have a better idea of how to play with the ball. At least that's how I feel.
I think people need to stop making this such a personal affair. It’s clear that Ole and his staff are our of their depths but are ultimately doing their best. Can’t expect much more than that from them with issues going beyond them and up to the board; who seem to be (apparently) behind a ‘vision’ or plan of sort - at least, that’s what they say. By that what they probably mean is a less scattergun approach to player recruitment, and looking at specific profiles who would match the image and philosophy of the club going forward. Which is good.
My frustration is that the board don’t seem to have accepted that Ole is quite frankly tremendously limited, and is not the person to take us in to the next stage of development. He’s played many of the youth which is a good thing as it’s kind of unfolded in front of us who is actually good enough to have a role in the first team going forward. But other than that, it seems a waste of time to persist with him when there is someone like Poch available who has done a similar job at Spurs I.e. build a team based on youth and on a budget. And let’s face it, the longer this goes on the harder a sell we become to prospective recruits making player acquisitions of top quality more difficult. Our problems just continue to exacerbate each other at this point and next thing you know it’s snowballed us to Liverpool pre-Klopp.
Regardless of whether we keep Ole come summer or not I’m hoping we invest this January. I mean, if there is actually plan around recruitment and player profiles, we should continue on with it as it shouldn’t really matter who would be in charge next as it all should be pulling toward one direction and image. One that the next manager would buy in to and add his own flavour rather than resetting the clock as we always seem to do.
My frustration is that the board don’t seem to have accepted that Ole is quite frankly tremendously limited, and is not the person to take us in to the next stage of development. He’s played many of the youth which is a good thing as it’s kind of unfolded in front of us who is actually good enough to have a role in the first team going forward. But other than that, it seems a waste of time to persist with him when there is someone like Poch available who has done a similar job at Spurs I.e. build a team based on youth and on a budget. And let’s face it, the longer this goes on the harder a sell we become to prospective recruits making player acquisitions of top quality more difficult. Our problems just continue to exacerbate each other at this point and next thing you know it’s snowballed us to Liverpool pre-Klopp.
Regardless of whether we keep Ole come summer or not I’m hoping we invest this January. I mean, if there is actually plan around recruitment and player profiles, we should continue on with it as it shouldn’t really matter who would be in charge next as it all should be pulling toward one direction and image. One that the next manager would buy in to and add his own flavour rather than resetting the clock as we always seem to do.
thats whats wrong with Utd, keeping a cluelss man incharge. Watch us rot more down so the OleI brigade cna be happy.
Why are you making stuff up in every post now
First you say we’ve only lost 5 in 25 this season and now another blatant lie. I’d call it embarrassing but it’s more than that, it’s downright weird.
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It's easy to see why people would say we should keep Ole. There are actually a bunch of good reasons that might just come out as excuses. The toxicity Mourinho spread across the club was too much and Ole came in and eliminated that toxicity. He's removed most of the deadwood and the players that are here so far have supported him
His buys have been good. And we're forming an identity in the sense that I can now imagine players that will fit the club eg Maddison, Haaland, Phillips etc. We've needed a proper rebuild since Ferguson left and this is what Ole constantly talks about. It's a breath of fresh air considering are previous coach.
With him there has been promotion of Youth and some of our players have improved undeniably. But does all these reasons mean we should keep him? No because in truth any manager can remove the toxicity of Jose by being psotive and hopeful. Any manager can remove deadwood because they are not hard to find. Any manager can form an identity for the club with a DOF or based on his own choices. Any manager can identify good transfer targets with good scouts and transfer committees or red Cafe transfer forum. Any manager can promote youth if he's a pedophile or if that's what he likes.
Ole has improved players and that I credit him for. But there are still lots of coaches that has done all this I've said. And when you look at it asides from improving players even you can do all this. What separates Ole from the best is what happens on the pitch and this is what people have a problem with
What Ole has done on the pitch has led us to fifth and into the semi finals of a cup. Is that good? Yes it's very good especially when you consider the quality of players we have, the injuries we've had, the lack of creativity in the team, how young our squad is. 5th and in the semi finals of a cup is a good position to be in.
So what is my issue with Ole? It's the style of play and tactics and yes we do have one. This may be overlooked but believe me this is the reason people want Ole out. It's the reason you wanted Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho sacked among other things. It's also the reason why when we win matches there are still a bunch of negative people
Do you people that want Ole like our style of play and tactics? Is it what we were promised by Ole when he came in? We are labeled as a counter attack team and that is all we are. Is this what we should be? There is the argument that this is down to the players we have. Not enough creativity, not enough quality but even a Sunday league team can have a decent style of play with the right coach. Look at Graham Potter for Brighton or Chris Wilder. They have established a style of play, tactics that is well drilled and the average players execute. All Ole has shown so far is that we are a counter attacking team because he's a counter attacking manager. Arsenal under Arteta managed to execute a pressing system that was better than what Ole has ever done since he came here.
We have no idea how to position ourselves to create space unless space is provided for us. We've been outplayed by teams worse than us. We sit back and counter when we face big teams. Is this what United should be? I remember Tottenham under Pochettino against Juve. They ended up losing that match but they came out attacking.
So for the people that want Ole are you actually happy with our tactics and style of play, our pressing, our defending after spending 130m and increasing De Gea's wages? Is this what he promised when he first came? Is this how you imagined us to be playing a year after he's been managing us? If your answer is no then Ole needs to be sacked. If your answer is that Jesse Lingard isn't good enough to for us to play good football then by all means keep riding Ole's d**k
His buys have been good. And we're forming an identity in the sense that I can now imagine players that will fit the club eg Maddison, Haaland, Phillips etc. We've needed a proper rebuild since Ferguson left and this is what Ole constantly talks about. It's a breath of fresh air considering are previous coach.
With him there has been promotion of Youth and some of our players have improved undeniably. But does all these reasons mean we should keep him? No because in truth any manager can remove the toxicity of Jose by being psotive and hopeful. Any manager can remove deadwood because they are not hard to find. Any manager can form an identity for the club with a DOF or based on his own choices. Any manager can identify good transfer targets with good scouts and transfer committees or red Cafe transfer forum. Any manager can promote youth if he's a pedophile or if that's what he likes.
Ole has improved players and that I credit him for. But there are still lots of coaches that has done all this I've said. And when you look at it asides from improving players even you can do all this. What separates Ole from the best is what happens on the pitch and this is what people have a problem with
What Ole has done on the pitch has led us to fifth and into the semi finals of a cup. Is that good? Yes it's very good especially when you consider the quality of players we have, the injuries we've had, the lack of creativity in the team, how young our squad is. 5th and in the semi finals of a cup is a good position to be in.
So what is my issue with Ole? It's the style of play and tactics and yes we do have one. This may be overlooked but believe me this is the reason people want Ole out. It's the reason you wanted Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho sacked among other things. It's also the reason why when we win matches there are still a bunch of negative people
Do you people that want Ole like our style of play and tactics? Is it what we were promised by Ole when he came in? We are labeled as a counter attack team and that is all we are. Is this what we should be? There is the argument that this is down to the players we have. Not enough creativity, not enough quality but even a Sunday league team can have a decent style of play with the right coach. Look at Graham Potter for Brighton or Chris Wilder. They have established a style of play, tactics that is well drilled and the average players execute. All Ole has shown so far is that we are a counter attacking team because he's a counter attacking manager. Arsenal under Arteta managed to execute a pressing system that was better than what Ole has ever done since he came here.
We have no idea how to position ourselves to create space unless space is provided for us. We've been outplayed by teams worse than us. We sit back and counter when we face big teams. Is this what United should be? I remember Tottenham under Pochettino against Juve. They ended up losing that match but they came out attacking.
So for the people that want Ole are you actually happy with our tactics and style of play, our pressing, our defending after spending 130m and increasing De Gea's wages? Is this what he promised when he first came? Is this how you imagined us to be playing a year after he's been managing us? If your answer is no then Ole needs to be sacked. If your answer is that Jesse Lingard isn't good enough to for us to play good football then by all means keep riding Ole's d**k
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i just wish he would reward Williams and Greenwood but starting them more. Shaw shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team. He’s so off the pace it’s scary.
the performances are dull and a disaster, yes it is a complete embarrassment! Remove your Ole tined glasses
Out of 3 players bought by Ole 2 are declining already. I see no progress whatsoever in this team. We are probably the worst team in the prem when it comes to spending/progress ratio. I see 0 ability in Ole's coaching methods. If the idea is to spend half a billion to start competing for top 4 than OGS is a total disaster and not an elite manager that is supposed to manage Manchester United. Defence is shaky, midfield is extremely limited devoid of any creativity, forwards are either extremely reliant on pace or a moment of individual brilliance. Sweet fook all when it comes to defending and attacking as a team.
Genuine question @Bilbo? Why does he deserve the chance to have his own squad here? Did Moyes also deserve that?
Already there are massive question marks being raised on James and AWB for our long term. If we sign Longstaff, Rice & Grealish in the Summer do you really believe that we'll be challenging? Or is the goal for the future just to challenge for top 4 with a more likeable team?
Why does he deserve time to build his own squad? That's a question that warrants a very long response that I dont have time for right now.
I think people have very quickly forgotten how bad things were under Jose and LVG, and what we were all asking for and hoping for. You all hated Young at right back. You all called Jones and Smalling the chuckle brothers. Abused Fellaini and Lukaku as non-footballers that no other top club would touch. Hated how we squandered huge sums on Sanchez, and couldn't find room in the team for Mkhi or Kagawa.
Guess what - this lot in charge now agree with that. We are specific now about the type of player we want to sign. We know what positions we need to strengthen. They are trying to build a side that Kagawa or Mkhi would flourish in (imagine having one of those here this season).
I guess my point is - why NOT give another season to a mgmt team that seem to want the same things that we all do? It's not like we haven't seen any signs of progress. I dont believe any fan could call this a squad without huge issues.
Mind you, this is a forum that also loses its minds when we dont take a patchwork side away to Wolves and blow them away, or apparently already have huge question marks about AWB and James, so really we dont really know what we want. We just want to be the best again RIGHT NOW and I'm afraid there isn't a manager alive that can deliver that.
AWB and James are not great technical footballers so it makes sense they are questioned. The belief many have in them as proper Manchester United signings really does remind me of the belief many Liverpool fans showed in players during the 90's and 00's when next year was going to be their year.
We don't want to be the best RIGHT NOW actually, most people here would be beyond delighted with 4th this season so you're making up scenarios in your head that do not exist. I think most would take a PL finish of 5th and a 50% win-rate. My issue is that we're on 38%, it's absolutely shocking.
You then say we are trying to build a side that Kagawa or Mkhi would flourish in, but so far we've signed 2 non technical footballers and apparently are extremely interested in the likes of Longstaff and Rice. So your optimism is to be congratulated, but how much of that is based on what you have seen so far and how much is grounded solely in wishful thinking?
If you see a technical team being built that Kagawa would excel in then you're seeing something different to me, I see us building an honest hard working team that will soon lose Pogba to boot. I see a team being built where very speedy forwards can excel.
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| Emery | Solskjaer | |
| 41 | Games | 21 |
| 49% | Win rate | 29% |
| 25 | Wins | 6 |
| 13 | Draws | 7 |
| 13 | Defeats | 8 |
| 91 | Goals Scored | 26 |
| 70 | Goals Conceded | 29 |
| 21 | Goal Difference | -3 |
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You're seeing a team where speedy forwards can excel because that is what we have. We are playing to our strengths because our midfield lacks creativity and we dont have any good number 10s. Some would call that smart.
There is no point using the likes of Rice and Longstaff and saying 'this is our future' because we have no idea who the club are looking at. Those are rumours. I'd kill to see what our shortlist actually looks like, but we dont have it.
James and AWB are both young footballers with plenty of promise and will improve. I really dont understand why we are questioning those two players. A month ago AWB was marking Sterling out of the game and everyone loved him. There is a concerning trend on here to ruin all of our players whenever they hit a stretch of indifferent form.
we talk about a rebuild but we failed to find a single midfielder in the summer.
our business then was pretty obvious - only Dan James was unexpected and he was recommended by Giggs.
as we enter the window we are already hearing about the difficulty of signing in January. after failing in the Summer we've had since 1st September with our near unlimited resources to find a single midfield player who fits Ole's profile.
Aside of Longstaffs how is it possible we haven't identified a single player?
is it Ole's veto or is Ole fighting hard enough for players. He wanted a replacement for Lukaku but didnt get one.
is the issue with Judge - who I learned is a former accountant - in terms of making offers and doing deals. I find it impossible to believe that they haven't found midfield players.
there's problems all over the club and coupled with Ole's tactical and motivational ineptitude it's truly pathetic. January is going to be terrible.
our business then was pretty obvious - only Dan James was unexpected and he was recommended by Giggs.
as we enter the window we are already hearing about the difficulty of signing in January. after failing in the Summer we've had since 1st September with our near unlimited resources to find a single midfield player who fits Ole's profile.
Aside of Longstaffs how is it possible we haven't identified a single player?
is it Ole's veto or is Ole fighting hard enough for players. He wanted a replacement for Lukaku but didnt get one.
is the issue with Judge - who I learned is a former accountant - in terms of making offers and doing deals. I find it impossible to believe that they haven't found midfield players.
there's problems all over the club and coupled with Ole's tactical and motivational ineptitude it's truly pathetic. January is going to be terrible.
Why are you making stuff up in every post now
First you say we’ve only lost 5 in 25 this season and now another blatant lie. I’d call it embarrassing but it’s more than that, it’s downright weird.
Sorry 6, hardly a blatant lie
Doesn't factor in Ole's forst 4 months.
Yeah just about in the FA Cup, didn't register a shot on target, is that not embarrassing enough for you?
If you're happy with continuing to watch us play crap football under an inept manager then maybe it's you who needs to have a word
.Yeah just about in the FA Cup, didn't register a shot on target, is that not embarrassing enough for you?
If you're happy with continuing to watch us play crap football under an inept manager then maybe it's you who needs to have a word
I've seen us play some very poor football and also some very good football. Not entirely unexpected really. Very similar to Chelsea and nobody is calling for Lampard to go.
What crap is this? We got 8 wins and 6 defeats this season. Or is this just his run as permanent run up to the point that Emery got the sack?
For what it's worth I agree that we shouldn't sack Ole now while the team is in decent form.
I also agree that we should sack him if either the club doesn't want to back him financially, has a more appropriate continuation candidate lined up, or if the season falls off the rails.
In terms of the comments about Ole Out mostly being limited to online chatter, I would stand by this. Haven't you found a difference in the mood of the fans this season compared to under LVG and Mourinho? I go home and away and I know I have. Of course you can find people in a pub or the ground who think he's doing a bad job, and some that want him sacked. However, I think back to the pessimism of the fanbase amongst the last few months of Mourinho where we were dreading press conferences, let alone matches. This season the results haven't been much better but the general mood is totally different. I don't think it's just because of TRA, I think a lot of fans are more positive, forgiving and willing to lend their support to a manager who seems to want to be here, who seems to have respect for the fans and the club traditions.
Obviously - since Emery can't alter his Arsenal percentage now that he's sacked...
It's demonstrating that Arsenal have sacked a manager for performing better than Ole has.
Nar, not from what I have witnessed. If anything maybe there is more indifference.
No question for me. Get him out. Awful football and poor results. This is not a rebuild this is a club stagnating and even regressing.
C'mon now, don't be entitled. You want a shot on target? Go support Barca ffs. We don't need gloryhunters like you here with their stupid expectations.Yeah just about in the FA Cup, didn't register a shot on target, is that not embarrassing enough for you?
If you're happy with continuing to watch us play crap football under an inept manager then maybe it's you who needs to have a word
I have no idea if you're being serious or not. If you're not then fair play
Spot on, I've had a very similar experience both home and away as well
More then that, some of the same people that say that, also agree in other threads that we barely have 3,4 player good enough to compete and 2 of them have been more injured then fit. It's beyond illogical
We either have a good squad and a underperforming manager or a poor squad and a decent manger given we are in a fight for top 4 and still in the cups.Why should we keep him? To rebuild? You need someone who is capable of rebuilding. He has no clue about coaching a top football club. Moyes has more experience and he was out of his depth. Why should we give Ole time? Just because he scored the winner in injury time in a CL Final? Might was well give to Teddy as he scored the equaliser and also in the FA Cup Final the same year. This will end like Shearer at Newcastle.
Different timescales though. No one was LVG-out or Mourinho-out halfway through their first seasons here, offline or online. The real equivalent is Moyes. With Moyes, as with Ole, there's a large section of the United support with the common sense to see it as a doomed appointment right from the start, and there was much less room for optimism once things started going wrong.
The loudest matchgoing fans are always the most deluded. If it were up to them Moyes would still be manager.
It's difficult to take a post seriously that calls our matchgoing fans deluded and weaponises hindsight by saying the fans who turned against Moyes earliest are more knowledgeable and have the foresight to see that Ole should be sacked.
We wanted a club that wasn't steeped in negativity and poison, where youth was given a chance, where overpaid, average journeyman are shipped out. Ole has done more than any of our other mangers since Fergie in that regard.
To think that we can achieve all of that without enduring a period of being wildly inconsistent and frequently frustrating is to assume we are already a well run club with bags of talent waiting for the right manager to unlock it, when we aren't.
We're run with making money as the primary success, not football. We have owners who saddled us with debt and have closed the purse strings, and we've got an accountant in running the show. Maybe Ole won't be the right man to get us back to the pinnacle of football, but at the moment you could have Jesus himself in charge and he wouldn't be able to work the miracles required to make this anything other than a transitional season.
I think most of our matchgoing fans are happy seeing youth and some positivity restored this season, and understand that we're a long, long way off (on and most importantly off the pitch) where some of our more reactionary fans presumably think we should be.
I am sorry - but what is this ?
I think it are stats of a now fired Arsenal manager who was considered a shit manager compared to the stats of our manager. The stats of that now fired, shit Arsenal manager are better than the stats of our manager who still has support.
Those Ole stats are terrible tbf.. although it does not include Ole his pre permanent manager stats.
Arsenal sacked their manager because of this season's performances and the fact that he lost the locker room, much in the same way Jose got fired last year. The whole blowup with Xhaka, who wanted out, and the way he handled Ozil, it's no wonder.
Ole does not have these problems, and as has been pointed out, we're fighting for 4th (Arsenal is not, at the moment) and we're still in all competitions (Arsenal is not).
Except that the real stats this season in the PL are: 8 wins 7 draws 6 defeats. Goal difference: + 7
And last time I checked, United were above Arsenal in the league, and were so also when Emery was sacked.
I´m not saying the stats in the league are fantastic so far this season, but no reason to make them worse than they are.
Emery wasn’t bad. Arsenal fans are unwilling to accept their ownership, like most in the PL, doesn’t think winning the title is worth the expense.
I see - so results and win percentage are ok to slide below managers who've been sacked, so long as you don't 'lose the dressing room'.
Basically - 'if the lads are happy while underachieving, then all's good'.
Awesome logic.
And you are using what, exactly?
If you lose the dressing room, there is no hope and a change has to be made.
Ole's situation is entirely different, so if you're trying to compare the two situations, you are not using any logic at all, or you are applying the same logic to a different set of facts. Either way, you're going to get the wrong answer...
Ole is a failing manager, whatever way you look at it.
Ole is an nostalgic eccentric appointment whatever way you look at it.
Ole isn't good enough to manage most PL sides, and, ultimately, he will soon be replaced unless he makes a 180 turn in his coaching quality.
That might not be the answer that you like, but it's the right one no less.
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