Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Taktik T-Rex]

But I’m not sure why you don’t want to acknowledge the fact that we are unbeaten in our last 7 league games (19 out of possible 21 points). Why do you give credit to individual brilliance when we win games? I’m sure when we lose, it’s Ole’s fault isn’t it?

Because that isn't the standard to judge any progress by for any club that isn't a relegation struggling side. Thomas Tuchel's Mainz started the 2010-11 season winning 7 back to back Bundesliga games beating CL finalist Bayern Munich at their own pit on their way to topping the Bundesliga after 7 games. That was 2 years after Klopp resigned because he couldn't promote Mainz again from Bundesliga 2. That's definitive progress. But we aren't FSV Mainz 05. We are Manchester United for goodness sake.

We have World Cup winner, a Portuguese magnifico, a very intelligent creator in Donny, one of the smartest strikers in the world, Rashy, Martial, Greenwood, functionally brilliant players in McTominay and Fred, a best in the game 1v1 full back, under a manager who's regarded as "better fit" to the club than the serial winning predecessors that we had before him by many and "revolutionary tactical and managerial genius" by some. If all you have to offer on the plate in return is a 3rd finish that was 2 pts better than Moyes and a good form in 7 games (even ignoring the 1 win in 12 games, the 3 semi-final exits, bottling the CL in the manner and fashion we did, the shocking comments that he has routinely put out), then that is coming up very short than what is promised. Unless you lower the expectations which is what is going on here. Mourinho was harassed for finishing 2nd with 81 points and winning 3 trophies. LVG was hounded out when he did just the same as Ole and even winning the FA cup couldn't save his job. None of that should have happened either. But we should humble ourselves in knowing that bigger giants than Ole have been sacrificed for doing much much more than Ole and none of them were given the same comfort of lower expectations that Ole enjoys with arguably better players for the execution.

I don’t buy much into the “public” demands. Jose used to do that a lot and those days were just terrible for the club and players.

You should if you are a fan of the club and not just the manager. Putting one's neck on the line for the public to judge one by is something that comes with the job. How much Ole pushes his players is clearly apparent in how frequently we bottle games that we should be winning. It is difficult to see that though when "past 7 games" is the only focus.

 

[georgipep]

Some tier 1 journalist had their info from player's agent and some from the club. Simon Stone has his info directly from the club mate, directly from Manchester United, that's what the club told him. What do you expect? You expect the manager to publicly said what he wanted? Not every journalist in Athletic is tier 1.

We also placed transfer bid being rejected on Benoît Badiashile, a centre back. We also had contact with Gabriel's agent. Both were confirmed by the most reliable journalist in France, Mohamed Bouhafsi.

If you honestly believe the club gives away transfer information to any journalist, you need to wake up and smell the roses.

Simon Stone, like any other journalist, uses any available information to his advantage and to sell clicks.

We may or may not have been after a CB and a DM. I can't see us signing a new CB without selling at least one or even two of the ones we have.

We gave Matić a new contract because even if we sign a new, young DM, he needs time to adapt and few better to learn from than Nemanja.

How long we were truly in for Sancho and what that meant for going after other targets, we will never know.

People seem to think that Cavani, Telles, Pellistri and Diallo took a few hours to get signed. I'm preety confident they didn't and we spent a lot of time negotiating those deals. They culminated on deadline day probably due to a combination of reasons, including when we want to announce them.

 

[Polar]

I'm with you and have the same concerns. If we can maintain the level of performance we saw earlier today then it'll be a very happy person. I'm actually buzzing tonight because of the football we played and who it was against.

We cannot expect performances like this every week. Also a lot of concerns about “false downs”. I’m not concerned. I know it’s more frustrating and inconsistent games to come, and I accept it. That’s football right now.

Things are not perfect because of one game, but I’m very happy because I see the team has potential. It’s something to build on - for the future.

We are going in the right direction, but it will be setbacks (two steps forward and one step back).

Let’s have trust in Ole and the team. We can evaluate after the season.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He needs to pick out a Bruno Fernandes like signing for the defense, otherwise the rest of the ingredients are all there for a really top team.

 

[Bobcat]

Wow, that's better than expected.

Also: Van Gaal

Its easy to forget just how tumescent we were under him. Things like Juanfield sticks in your memory, but we were brutal to watch most of the time

 

[amsoUG]

Because that isn't the standard to judge any progress by for any club that isn't a relegation struggling side. Thomas Tuchel's Mainz started the 2010-11 season winning 7 back to back Bundesliga games beating CL finalist Bayern Munich at their own pit on their way to topping the Bundesliga after 7 games. That was 2 years after Klopp resigned because he couldn't promote Mainz again from Bundesliga 2. That's definitive progress. But we aren't FSV Mainz 05. We are Manchester United for goodness sake.

We have World Cup winner, a Portuguese magnifico, a very intelligent creator in Donny, one of the smartest strikers in the world, Rashy, Martial, Greenwood, functionally brilliant players in McTominay and Fred, a best in the game 1v1 full back, under a manager who's regarded as "better fit" to the club than the serial winning predecessors that we had before him by many and "revolutionary tactical and managerial genius" by some. If all you have to offer on the plate in return is a 3rd finish that was 2 pts better than Moyes and a good form in 7 games (even ignoring the 1 win in 12 games, the 3 semi-final exits, bottling the CL in the manner and fashion we did, the shocking comments that he has routinely put out), then that is coming up very short than what is promised. Unless you lower the expectations which is what is going on here. Mourinho was harassed for finishing 2nd with 81 points and winning 3 trophies. LVG was hounded out when he did just the same as Ole and even winning the FA cup couldn't save his job. None of that should have happened either. But we should humble ourselves in knowing that bigger giants than Ole have been sacrificed for doing much much more than Ole and none of them were given the same comfort of lower expectations that Ole enjoys with arguably better players for the execution.



You should if you are a fan of the club and not just the manager. Putting one's neck on the line for the public to judge one by is something that comes with the job. How much Ole pushes his players is clearly apparent in how frequently we bottle games that we should be winning. It is difficult to see that though when "past 7 games" is the only focus.

I have watched nearly (not all) every game from the days of Alex - and OGS has us playing really well, is some games even better than how we used to play during Alex's era.

Moyes was mechanical, LVG a snooze - too much control to allow players the freedom to play (go read the criticisms from former Utd players), Mourinho - I hated our football under him, everything was about him and not about how Utd should play. We won Europa like wimps against a very adventurous Ajax. It was only a matter of time before he could be found out.

OGS has given the players freedom and confidence to play, and our football is flowing and many times mesmerising.I don't think there is a club right now in world football that can choose to play an open game against us and not get battered or outscored. OGS has instilled the belief and good arrogance in how pe play.

 

[keithsingleton]

United played exactly 1500 matches under Ferguson - 2769 goals = 1.84 goals pr match

Solskjaer 111 matches - 208 goals = 1,87

Mourinho 144 matches - 244 goals = 1.69

Van Gaal 103 matches - 158 goals = 1.53

Moyes 51 matches - 86 goals = 1.68



source: mufcinfo.com

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

 

[Polar]

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

Bizarre conclusion.. After 111 matches it’s obviously a strong indication that Ole is doing something right regarding our offensive play. Big difference between “5-10-20” and 111

 

[Red_Jamie]

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

But it's not 5, 10, 20 games it's 111. Which clearly doesn't 'mean nothing' and is an excellent sample size.

What a bizarre and nonsensical post.

 

[Flexdegea]

I just feel people need to calm down. It's like after 3 years, we're about to have our first test. We could do with a trophy but there is no divine right and it don't matter how teams perform now. Trophies aren't given out for form now.

Ole been at the club caretaker manager to manager for pretty much exactly 2 full years. Don't know where you are getting its like after 3 years.

He joined 19th December 2018.


It's December 2020.

 

[dogwithabone]

It would be madness to sack him right now.
Our best moments post SAF have come with Ole at the helm and we've just been served another today.

I agree. Say what you like about Ole but this Manchester United is the closest we’ve got to a Ferguson side. Even the way we often make it more difficult than it should be mirrors a lot of matches under Fergie. We’ve never really been about being obsessed with clean sheets and scrambling 1-0’s and although that’s often title winning DNA I think any success we have under the current regime will have plenty of ‘squeaky bum time’ along the way.

 

[LUC1f3R]

I am not a fan of Ole. But Ole is getting results in league this season and I appreciate that. And he should be given credit for the same (changed my opinion from #Ole_out_now to wait_till_season_end ) If we maintain the same after Boxing Day, I believe he should be given time till season ends atleast.
I haven't found him consistent enough (hope it changes, but not counting on it). We win against teams that attack us and leaves space behind, but against a low block we suffer. This is the primary reason for my position. We finished 3rd last time and hence I want us to finish in top 4 and reach a cup final atleast this season to count it as a progress and failure of former should result in his replacement.
When Ole gets his tactics right, we are a joy to watch (I missed that for a long long time) and I give credit to him for that. But when his tactics are wrong, he can't come up with tweeks then and there (instead, he waits till HT). I expect a coach to advice his team to counter after seeing opponents tactics. eg. When PSG made changes in their defense line and they were making progress (before the Fred red card), I expected Ole to change his formation or advice players on how to counter. He did none. There were many instances like this and is the other reason why I am not a fan of Ole. (My opinion is not based on our CL matches alone)

I believe Ole is learning on the job and if he learns by season end and we finish good, I will sure support him ( for, I like this United attack)
At same time, please don't hype Ole too much based on current form (and ABC tables). Let's see how we face low block teams and high pressing Liv.

GLORY GLORY MAN UTD

 

[CoolDuckie]

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

Actually, this can be calculated using confidence intervals of counts:
Ferguson:
You observed 2769 objects in a certain volume or 2769 events in a certain time period.
Approximate (Pearson) Poission confidence interval:
The 90% confidence interval extends from 2683.79 to 2856.92
The 95% confidence interval extends from 2667.77 to 2874.07
The 99% confidence interval extends from 2636.73 to 2907.90

Thus, the "true", generalizable goal count would be between 1.77 and 1.96 for Ferguson, assuming 95% confidence intervals.

Solskjær:
You observed 208 objects in a certain volume or 208 events in a certain time period.
Exact Poisson confidence interval:
The 90% confidence interval extends from 184.87 to 233.34
The 95% confidence interval extends from 180.69 to 238.26
The 99% confidence interval extends from 172.73 to 248.11

=1.62 to 2.14 with 95% confidence intevals for OGS.

It is also possible to calculate the confidence intervals of the count-differences, but I don't think that is necessary here. The main conclusion is that you are right: We don't know whether these goal-counts reflect a "true" difference between these managers. It could be down to chance and the true long-term score for OGS could prove to be lower.

These numbers are also not really valid given that circumstances to a large degree would differ in different time-periods. It would perhaps be better to compare goal counts under OGS vs Ferguson relative to total goal counts for all teams within the league at the relevant time-periods.

CD.

 

[RUCK4444]

Let this be the last post before a lock:

This is amazing

 

[Jeffthered]

Yes, I do feel that. We have been the best team since February, not the whole calendar 2020, my apologies for the wrong information in my previous post.

Since GW 26 last season up till today, here's the table:

Team	Games	Points
Manchester United	26	57
Liverpool	27	57
Manchester City	26	53
Chelsea	26	47
Tottenham	27	47
Leicester	27	40

Last 10 games:

Team	Points
Manchester United	23
Liverpool	22
Manchester City	19
Chelsea, Southampton, West Ham, Leicester, Tottenham	18
Wolves	17

Last 5 games:

Team	Points
Manchester United	13
Liverpool, Manchester City	11
Everton, West Ham	10
Leicester	9
Burnley	8

We have trouble in the starting minutes of our games. That has been pretty obvious. And I'm sure the coaching staff are addressing that problem.

That's all interesting to read, but this (again) highlights the increasing use of stats in football.. it's an industry and peoplee should consider it as such. Stats can be useful, if appropriated in a useful way, and with the context supporting it. This calendar year, Liverpool have EASILY been the best team, and are still the best team. But look at those tables. We are better than Man City? Liverpool? really?

Liverpool won the league then took their foot off the gas... this 'skewed' their stats. And this season proves what, accept that the league is Liverpool, probably city ( as they will start scoring goals...) and then it's the rest. Which includes us.

Last weekend Tottenham were top. Now look at them. So let's not look into stats etc too quickly, or a win against Sheff Utd and Leeds.

I look at out season so far, and I remain, unconvinced. We are being illuminated by moments of inspiration... Bruno, Rashford.. but I am not sure we can really rely on much as yet... and OGS HAS to sort that out. Has to. That is HIS job.

 

[90 + 5min]

Now comes a really big test. Everton in the cup. We have a huge chance to win the cup this year with City looking weaker than previous years. They will go strong so we need to match them. I think start either Rashford or Martial and rest the other. Cavani, Greenwood, Pogba, Fred, VDB, Telles, Maguire, Lindelöf, AWB, De Gea.
If we put up another disaster cup performances though big questions need to be asked about Ole and him keeping the job.
I think we will build on it and win or at least play well enough to justify the selection and tactics.

Every game is a big test for you. If we draw or lose you will say sack him. You write in that way because of agenda.

 

[georgipep]

That's all interesting to read, but this (again) highlights the increasing use of stats in football.. it's an industry and peoplee should consider it as such. Stats can be useful, if appropriated in a useful way, and with the context supporting it. This calendar year, Liverpool have EASILY been the best team, and are still the best team. But look at those tables. We are better than Man City? Liverpool? really?

Liverpool won the league then took their foot off the gas... this 'skewed' their stats. And this season proves what, accept that the league is Liverpool, probably city ( as they will start scoring goals...) and then it's the rest. Which includes us.

Last weekend Tottenham were top. Now look at them. So let's not look into stats etc too quickly, or a win against Sheff Utd and Leeds.

I look at out season so far, and I remain, unconvinced. We are being illuminated by moments of inspiration... Bruno, Rashford.. but I am not sure we can really rely on much as yet... and OGS HAS to sort that out. Has to. That is HIS job.

I've never said that I think we are title contenders or are the best team in the league. I said that we are the in-form team. And ok, last season Liverpool took the foot off the gas after it was clear they won it. What about last 10 games then? Or we can't be encouraged by our results because City are not scoring enough goals?

I know it can all turn sour very quickly. We have Leicester and Liverpool next. These can easily be two losses. But so what? We've lost games before and will lose again. It is obvious, to me, that we're making huge strides forward and am confident that the future is bright.

The "moments of inspiration" argument. So, you're telling me that other managers deliver results not because they have brilliant players? Is that it? Why weren't Liverpool winning as much without VVD, Alison, Mane and Salah? What was stopping Klopp?

Why are City not winning as much now without Aguero, David Silva and Kompany? Isn't he brilliant enough to make any given footballer a world class performer in his magnificient tactical masterpieces?

Get off your high horse and acknowledge the progress and hard work done by our team and staff. Bruno and Rashford shine so much because there is a system in place to make the most out of their talents, which are being honed on the training field.

 

[wolvored]

Well, if I have to be honest, I couldn't care less about the League Cup and the EL. I honestly wouldn't be able to bring myself to watch Europa again, even if we play as well as today. It's just so much below our level and having to play 2 games a week for 9 months for our two CBs, which is what the manager seems to be going for, is just not feasible.

I would focus on the title challenge and FA cup.

But it is our level. We were not good enough for champions League.

 

[mancan92]

Fair play to Ole. Honestly I'm pretty pissed about going out of the champions league. But just focus 100% on the league and who knows what could happen

 

[Tarrou]

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

111 is definitely a big enough sample to draw some conclusions from

 

[90 + 5min]

Its easy to forget just how tumescent we were under him. Things like Juanfield sticks in your memory, but we were brutal to watch most of the time

I think I’m very few in here who actually think he was buildning something. I don’t know what it tells about me or the rest. VanGaal football is hard to learn and takes couple of years to understand. I wanted to give him mot years.

When it to Solskjaer, everyone knows what I think. Time and patience.

 

[Bobcat]

I think I’m very few in here who actually think he was buildning something. I don’t know what it tells about me or the rest. VanGaal football is hard to learn and takes couple of years to understand. I wanted to give him mot years.

When it to Solskjaer, everyone knows what I think. Time and patience.

I know what you mean, i to get the sense that LvG really wanted to build something here that lasted, but unfortunately he was let down by a very poor transfer record and for him it ended up with a whole lot of square begs in round holes. Also, his instance on playing a badly declining Rooney in MF really hampered us.

 

[McTerminator]

On the fence of sacking Ole and getting a proven manager in.

Still can't get over the champions league exit and that Liepzig result was down to him. I don't think he's a good enough manager to win you the league or trophies. All I really expect from him is top four and crash out early in the champions league.

I suppose some fans are okay with that though. Hes there two years now and still don't see a huge improvements in his tactics on the pitch.

Which one? the incredible 5-0 win or the disappointing 3-2 loss, or both?

Two sides to every coin and at the moment Ole is doing pretty well whichever side you look at. For a team that has been so unsuccessful in the champions league for seven years we certainly do have great expectations when we manage to qualify, little bit odd don't you think?

 

[FatherWolff]

I think we have lost four league games in close to a year. That’s right, isn’t it? But people are expecting another false down and want consistency? We will lose football matches, and we will play badly. Just like every other team in the world.

 

[dal]

Clear, transparent signs of improvement.

The Leeds game has zero baring in this though, in fact its probably the worst type of game to judge Ole on.

When Mourinho left, we said just watching good football would be good enough.

The whole club seems to be changing and I’m not bothered going out of the champions league, I’ll care more if we do the same next year.

I understand the project and I think the board do to and most of the fans except for some short-sighted naysayers.

It’s a long season but I’d be very happy with champions league qualification again and finishing in the top 4.

We haven’t finished in the top 4 two seasons in a row for 8 years. This would demonstrate consistency.

The spoilt fans won’t like this.

 

[lysglimt]

Anyone taking notice of such stats after 111 matches would be deluded. You could get a new manager to beat 1.87 after 1 game 5-10-20. Games, it means nothing.

Well - to compare him to Ferguson who played 1500 is deluded - but to the other 3 tells you something

 

[meamth]

Luck or not.

Those stats showing us accumulating the most points since the turn of the year is no fluke. We're seeing the fruits of it now. Let's hope we can continue.
Haters will say it's Bruno.

Sack him? Ridiculous.

 

[TrustInOle]

United played exactly 1500 matches under Ferguson - 2769 goals = 1.84 goals pr match

Solskjaer 111 matches - 208 goals = 1,87

Mourinho 144 matches - 244 goals = 1.69

Van Gaal 103 matches - 158 goals = 1.53

Moyes 51 matches - 86 goals = 1.68



source: mufcinfo.com

Brilliant find. Goes against the consensus that we are a counter attacking team. It may seem that way because when we receive the ball our first thought is get forward and attack. Just like in Sir Alex's days and something fans have been crying out for since.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I decided to show you just one picture of Conte at Inter and you decided to focus and make the big deal out of it and ignore the original discussion.

You can try to disprove whatever you like about Conte & Mourinho being similar but disproving that is irrelevant to our original discussion. The original discussion was Conte inherited title winning squad, Ole didn't inherit the same Mourinho 17/18 squad when we finished the league with 80 points, he inherited 6 years problem to fix. Stick with that discussion, don't get dragged out too easily.

You tried to disprove that original discussion about Conte inherited title winning squad by calling it tactical switch. So I countered it by making statement that Ole's tactic is also different to Mourinho. And your stats there clearly proved me that I'm right he is different to Mourinho. And if we go by your logic about Conte & Ole being more similar then this tactical switch isn't the difference here which actually disproved your point because both managers applied the similar tactical switch and are different to Mourinho. Tactical switch wasn't the difference, players were.



Why is it relevant Conte used Moses for his tactical switch to our original discussion? A winger converted into wing back. Young, Valencia, Cuadrado, Jesus Navas, Vázquez and even Chiesa was used as wingback few times at Juve & Fiorentina. Is it special case? No!

I never say Ole would performed better, may be he could, may be he couldn't. What I suggested was you are unfairly using Conte's & Mourinho finished with 80 points to suit your argument. The reality is Ole didn't inherit the same 17/18 squad, but Conte inherited the same title winning 14/15 squad. Are you finally get it now?

Just to sum this up.
My OP was Ole and Mou setup their teams in similar manner...I believe I said it is arguable how different their style is. Is stated Mou is most defensive of the two. I have seen nothing from your side to refute my point aside from your opinion on which football you prefer, every stat you have produced has supported my opinion. Yesterday's game is the perfect example and we have the exact style that is like cryptonite to Leeds, we sit in, cede possession (United had 41%) and have the players to break and cause problems. This is not a criticism FYI, this is exactly what we should doing against a team like Leeds but it, again, proves my point that Ole is a defensive coach. I need to stress here, it's not bad or good to be a defense first coach.

On the Chelsea squad, if your sole point is that Conte inherited Mou's whereas Ole inherited most of Mou's squad but completely ignores the factors around that, I don't know what to say because it's so irrelevant to the wider picture. If you're genuinely asking what relevance Conte's tactics have to our discussion which is essentially why he did so well first season at Chelsea, again I don't know what to say...it seems your logic for explaining which coaches are successful is just if they inherit a good team, they will do well. My sole point on this part is Ole did not inherit some rag tag band of mid table scrappers, he inherited a team whose last full season was a 2nd place finish and then he actively chose to get rid of those players you mentioned (they weren't out of the club before he came) and then was backed with expensive signings. We have a really good, deep squad and I got a lot of flak on the Spurs, United, City comparison thread because I suggested for the first time in a long time we're pretty level with City and I think now people are starting to get it - our recruitment has not been as bad as people think and the players everyone slates are not half as bad as people make out.

I'm glad you have finally got the fact that Ole/Conte are more similar the Conte/Mou.

 

[RedPed]

From all of the top 10 European leagues at the moment, only Inter Milan have a better recent form record than Manchester United. Clubs like Dortmund , Barcelona, PSG, Man City etc. have also struggled in recent times. Some like Barcelona and Arsenal are in real turmoil. This is a very unusual time. You have to look at the bigger picture.

It's all relative and all things considered, you have to say that Solskjaer is not doing too badly. The only thing that is giving doubters ammunition is inconsistency. Once he stamps that out of the team, people will start to put respect on his name. Of course, winning a trophy will also help.

 

[Tom Cato]

On the fence of sacking Ole and getting a proven manager in.

Still can't get over the champions league exit and that Liepzig result was down to him. I don't think he's a good enough manager to win you the league or trophies. All I really expect from him is top four and crash out early in the champions league.

I suppose some fans are okay with that though. Hes there two years now and still don't see a huge improvements in his tactics on the pitch.

You're on the fence of sacking the manager after 6wins 1draw in the last 7?

 

[Widow]

You're on the fence of sacking the manager after 6wins 1draw in the last 7?

Probably based on two years in charge I'd say. I imagine you secretly know that.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If you honestly believe the club gives away transfer information to any journalist, you need to wake up and smell the roses.

You are new to football then, welcome to football. This is so common because there is nothing wrong for the club to tell journalist which area or position they are looking for in transfer window. It’s a simple small information that they often give to journalist.

Simon Stone, like any other journalist, uses any available information to his advantage and to sell clicks.

Not every journalist are on the same tier mate.

We may or may not have been after a CB and a DM. I can't see us signing a new CB without selling at least one or even two of the ones we have.

We gave Matić a new contract because even if we sign a new, young DM, he needs time to adapt and few better to learn from than Nemanja.

How long we were truly in for Sancho and what that meant for going after other targets, we will never know.

People seem to think that Cavani, Telles, Pellistri and Diallo took a few hours to get signed. I'm preety confident they didn't and we spent a lot of time negotiating those deals. They culminated on deadline day probably due to a combination of reasons, including when we want to announce them.

Let’s don’t play dumb here. We had 4 months of transfer window last summer mate. 4 months! Cavani was available for 9 months. It took that long??

 

[Widow]

There's noway Ole should be sacked. I'm not convinced he's the messah yet but barring a drop off the cliff decline, he has definitely done enough to see the season out.

 

[pass.pass.pass]

Ole did well yesterday in exploiting Leeds' weaknesses. Asking McT to make those runs and play forward passes was a great change from how he usually plays. All credit to the manager.

And yet, Leeds were the perfect team to face for Ole. We have always known that he knows how to exploit an attacking opposition. As a team, however, you can still see how poor we are at keeping the ball. We cannot dampen down the tempo of a game when it is required. This is why we went out of the CL after being in a commanding position in the competition after the first two games. Let's not forget that that was just a couple of weeks ago.

It's quite hilarious really to see the flip floppers in this thread who have again changed their vote based on this one game. The jury is very much out (though I hope Ole proves me wrong and gets us close to the winning the league--that would be glorious).

 

[Tom Cato]

Probably based on two years in charge I'd say. I imagine you secretly know that.

But we reached our outspoken goals so far? The ambition last season was top4, we got top3. We're markedly improving this season and we're still very much in the title race. What are we doing here? Infighting among ourselves while we're enjoying the 2nd best season start since SAF retired? (17/18 saw us at 32p after 14 rounds, 20/21 will net 29points once the Burnley game is played)

 

[90 + 5min]

But we reached our outspoken goals so far? The ambition last season was top4, we got top3. We're markedly improving this season significantly and we're still very much in the title race. What are we doing here? Infighting among ourselves while we're enjoying the best 2nd best season start since SAF retired? (17/18 saw us at 32p after 14 rounds, 20/21 will net 29points once the Burnley game is played)

I would say that it is never enough. Progress is so clear to see for those who want to look at it. Even if we would win trophies there will be those saying we should sack manager and that grass is greener on the other side. We don't have to go to far with seeing that. Remember all those talk that Ferguson should be sacked, in his last couple of years? Amazing stuff.

I know what you mean, i to get the sense that LvG really wanted to build something here that lasted, but unfortunately he was let down by a very poor transfer record and for him it ended up with a whole lot of square begs in round holes. Also, his instance on playing a badly declining Rooney in MF really hampered us.

I think it was down to patience. People didn't have that. You are right, some of his transfers were wierd, but he had a clear plan. People might have thought we were boring but I liked us controlling games. I didn't like how he got sacked.

Haha, when I talk about him that press conferance always comes to my mind: *Louis Van Gaal army, Louis Van Gaal army*

 

[bond19821982]

There's noway Ole should be sacked. I'm not convinced he's the messah yet but barring a drop off the cliff decline, he has definitely done enough to see the season out.

After 13 matches , seriously?

 

[FatherWolff]

Ole did well yesterday in exploiting Leeds' weaknesses. Asking McT to make those runs and play forward passes was a great change from how he usually plays. All credit to the manager.

And yet, Leeds were the perfect team to face for Ole. We have always known that he knows how to exploit an attacking opposition. As a team, however, you can still see how poor we are at keeping the ball. We cannot dampen down the tempo of a game when it is required. This is why we went out of the CL after being in a commanding position in the competition after the first two games. Let's not forget that that was just a couple of weeks ago.

It's quite hilarious really to see the flip floppers in this thread who have again changed their vote based on this one game. The jury is very much out (though I hope Ole proves me wrong and gets us close to the winning the league--that would be glorious).

How many changed their votes? Two? Three? It’s pretty horrible over 40% wants the manager sacked right now. Show a complete lack of touch with reality.

On the point of us keeping the ball I do agree to some extent. But the way I see it, it’s mostly down to player ability. You don’t teach that from Monday to Tuesday at this level. It’s a matter of manager choice really. We can play Pogba or Matic, but then we loose some mobility and energy. On the up side though, Mc.T and Fred are getting better at it. We know the manager wants to keep the ball more, so that is something we need to get better at.

 

[TheGame]

Interesting stat from BBC Sport, closest we've been points wise to the top compared to previous years:

Man Utd at Christmas since 2013-14, and their final position
Season	Position	Pts off top	Final position	Final pts off top
2020-21	3rd	5*	?	?
2019-20	8th	24	3rd	33
2018-19	6th	19	6th	32
2017-18	2nd	13	2nd	19
2016-17	6th	13	6th	24
2015-16	5th	9	5th	15
2014-15	3rd	10	4th	17
2013-14	8th	8	7th	22