Who do you rate more? Poch or Allegri?
Would you give the job to Allegri right now?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
What is the point of changing the coach now.. Ole has had real hard troubles due to injures. The squad is not strong enough to handle it. He has only just a couple of months ago begun to rebuild the squad so that he can have hungry talented players with mentality and the right qualities for his style. If you "save" the season now, that means quickfixing and a restart of the endless cycle. This shit has to be allowed to play through. Rome was not built on one day. United is so damaged that it will need longer time to get stable and world class than some weeks under any manager. reading all the crap in here, I wish Ole had said no to the job. He deserves better than what both fans and players are giving him.
Cech, Terry, Lamps, Hazard, Ivanioc, Luiz, Torres, Mikel, Oscar, Azpilicueta, Mata, Moses, Ramires is what he took over as well as Marin and you left out they had just won the Uefa cup with most of the tem that won the CL season before and add the 200 million jose added to that squad and two yrs later won the league, but you're post wouldn't look too good with that added I suppose.
To be fair to Moyes, christ he took over a team who had players who didnt want to be here, rooney, a player in RVP who went into a sulk as the reason he came retired, and players who were past it and players like jones, smalling not UTD standard, now havent said that, he messed up by not be sorted and ready to go as soon as AF left.
Can we stop claiming Ole's failure is just down to injuries?
I am sure it was not like I am also sure it wasn't built by someone who has no idea wha he is doing.We can all lust over Nagelsmann as much as we like, but let's be realistic. @devilish's Good Point A is absolutely key.
We need someone who can lay the law down to Ed and the Glazers (i.e. unlike Ole) without being a self serving cnut (i.e. unlike Jose). Someone who can tell Ed how to do his job in such a way that Ed still thinks he's the one calling the shots. If Allegri can do that, I'm all for getting him in ASAP.
Poch, much as I recognise his strengths, seems too emotional and prone to sulking. As I would be, if I had to deal with Ed
We need someone who can lay the law down to Ed and the Glazers (i.e. unlike Ole) without being a self serving cnut (i.e. unlike Jose). Someone who can tell Ed how to do his job in such a way that Ed still thinks he's the one calling the shots. If Allegri can do that, I'm all for getting him in ASAP.
Poch, much as I recognise his strengths, seems too emotional and prone to sulking. As I would be, if I had to deal with Ed
Weirdly enough, Allegri fits most of that qualities you had mentioned. He is young , dramatically improves players, very flexible and promotes youth.
No it wouldn’t similar to what you’re last paragraph made United’s team look average. It’s not United’s fault Moyes dittered on transfers and decided to just go with Fellaini. I mean his name at Everton was dittered Dave and they was known for making last minute deals.
Czech we had DDG. Terry we had Vidic. Lamps you can have. Hazard we still had Valencia and Nani. Torres and Mikel was just crap. He sold Mata to us that season and Oscar and Remieries well look at them now. It’s a non arguement. They just got a better coach. If he joined us instead we would have got a midfielder and a few others and won the title.
The squad is strong enough to comfortably beat teams that where created 10 years ago and relegation quality teams.
Unrelated to the situation, but yeah, a lot of Rome was built by absolute madmen.
No - I don't want another pragmatic, win-at-all-costs, negative-football manager. a) because I want to enjoy, not endure, watching United play, and b) because I don't think that style would win us the league anyway - not with City and Liverpool in their current state.
Tuchel?
This does my head in. It's not like he's made the best of what we have and we have just been unlucky because of the injuries. We've been fecking shite, not enough people working for the team. Clueless tactics and zero coaching to improve it.
Another year another influx of new members who think making a stand for a failing manager is the way. Also can't tell if they actually believe it or are actively trying to game the system for an easy promotion
Tuchel could be at PSG for a good while. They just hammered Madrid and will cruise to another league title
If we don't see any improvement (style and control - not just points) from Ole in the next month, he shouldn't make it to Christmas. Give Allegri some time. We need a control-freak to build up the ruins which are United.
I like Allegri in general but not for Manchester United in our current position.
He's a good coach but if it all falls apart then we'll have failed again without having really shifted to a coherent progressive approach.
He's a good coach but if it all falls apart then we'll have failed again without having really shifted to a coherent progressive approach.
Only if I was a rival fan and wanted us to continue burning. Do people learn nothing from continuous, 7 years of mistakes? You can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Some smart guy once said that is the definition of insanity. Ed fits it quite nicely.
Marco Rose, Nagelsmann etc would not join us so soon after taking over their current team. As an interim manager is Allegri not perfect? Plays defensive football which would hide our attacking problems and is proven to get the best out of our best player.
We can change managers every month but the problem isn't the manager, it's the people in suits who think football is the 2nd part of the job in running a football club and business being 1st...
Ole needs two more windows. I hope he gets them. Whether we finish 6th or 17th doesn’t matter. This season and most seasons is a mess because of Woodward.
Ole doesn’t have the numbers to compete never mind the talent to play how he wants to play. Hopefully get in another 6 players minimum over the next few windows and we’ll see a team start to form.
I think people need to reset their expectations for this team for a while. It’s not going to happen quickly no matter who is in charge. Forget Fergie, those days are gone. Time for the future. Stop putting pressure on these players and the manager. There are so many circumstances against them.
Ole doesn’t have the numbers to compete never mind the talent to play how he wants to play. Hopefully get in another 6 players minimum over the next few windows and we’ll see a team start to form.
I think people need to reset their expectations for this team for a while. It’s not going to happen quickly no matter who is in charge. Forget Fergie, those days are gone. Time for the future. Stop putting pressure on these players and the manager. There are so many circumstances against them.
It's the club so called 'ethos' can pressuring themselves actually. The club won't move on from the 'United DNA' thing. So we are now a past club. Always looking back
Abso-fecking-lutely.
Its very difficult to say.
Pochs plays attacking football which is a big plus. There again the only way you can do that is to have top class players upfront which we currently lack. Even Sir Alex (United way yada yada) took a rather cautious approach at the end of his career. Another key advantage of Pochs is that he knows the EPL inside out. Again that can be contested by saying that he never really been with a club that is in such mess.
Allegri has no experience in the EPL. That's a bugger although it really didn't hurt Conte, whom, on the other hand, was managing a far better side then we have. His experience with difficult owners (Berlusconi would eat the Glazers for breakfast) and in managing squads that are a mess is a big plus. His key asset is his versatility. Allegri doesn't have a prefixed philosophy that everyone need to adhere to. He builds his philosophy bottom up ie he observe his players, he learns their strengths and weaknesses and he comes out with a tactic on how to manage them. That's something we sorely need. However I wonder if he ever worked without a DOF and the last DOF he had was the Bentley version of all DOFs.
To conclude, one must ask if Pochs would be interested in United in the first place. At this stage of his career he would want to move forward not back.
Is this guy really the long term answer? We'd probably end up desperate for him to be sacked 18months down the line
Have you guys actually watched his tactics when he was with juve? It’s worst than mourinho. You guys really want to get a poor man’s mourinho???
Ole will never have the players to play his way as there is no magic strategy. He employs mid table tactics. Other managers who started new afresh could instantly imprint their stamp without 6 Windows. It's an excuse and delaying the inevitable. If he had a grand plan he would not have spent 10 years in the doldrums of management. The guys with a "way of playing" get snapped up real quick
The long term approach is way forward and that’s exactly why Ole should go. He’s not even a mid-table manager in all honesty, someone who can actually coach the players and knows something about tactics is required. Giving Ole time and money for no reason other than he can stay long term is just going to make everything worse.
I expect club will have to sack Ole soon and as he’s available Allegri is most likely successor. It’ll suit Woodward as will be easy deal and it’s a high profile manager. I don’t think it’s right appointment but neither is persisting with Ole for the sake of it.
This is pure insanity.
Moyes was not fired because he didn't immediately do what Fergie did. He was fired because he took the league champions down to 7th. Giving him more time to "get his own players" was never going to happen. It would have been an insane gamble to let him spend hundreds of millions while he was doing absolutely terribly with what he had.
It is fishy how it's always the newest members who tend to be the desperately over the top posters wanting managers to keep their jobs.
I try to stay away from manager discussion threads atm as it only supports the short termism dominating and at the same time is unnecessarily polarized and divisive (I’m no better than anybody else). I’ll make an exception here because this to me is about the owners and where they are taking the club:
Appointing Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho at United was three mistakes in a row. Appointing them in a row, is hair on end stuff. Not only does it speak to the poor football work of Woodward, but also to his employers.
Now, at this point (in February), appointing Ole Solskjær and supporting him in rebuilding the club from the ground up is either a sign of the hierarchy being on the right way - i.e., that regardless of wether Solskjær will prove to be adept enough as a football manager to last the course at United, if the G’s and Woody has understood that their haphazard way is flawed and the club needs being built in a consistent way over time, we will be on the right course even if Solskjær fails to deliver results on the pitch in the longer run. We will get a new manager who are thinking in roughly the same vein as Solskjær, and will be able to make use of the players Solskjær have assembled, and of the talent produced by an Academy thinking along the same lines.
If, however, Allegri is the next manager, it will prove that Solskjær was not hired because his Woody wanted his ideas of building the club, but because Woodward thought he would be a good quick fix appointment. Or that Woodward simply doesn’t care, and would actually pick any momentarily popular choice. Or that Woodgate’s understanding of cinsistency and building process is so low that he could be able to think ‘oh well, now we’ve tried concistency for twelve months, it obviously doesn’t work, let’s go for haphazard instead, or maybe the famed Woodward Gut Feeling.
Either of those scenarios would be too depressing to even bother considering, and a clear proof that the owners have actually no idea whatsoever what they are dealing with, and are not able to or interested in learning either. Let’s hope (against much evidence?) that it isn’t so.
Appointing Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho at United was three mistakes in a row. Appointing them in a row, is hair on end stuff. Not only does it speak to the poor football work of Woodward, but also to his employers.
Now, at this point (in February), appointing Ole Solskjær and supporting him in rebuilding the club from the ground up is either a sign of the hierarchy being on the right way - i.e., that regardless of wether Solskjær will prove to be adept enough as a football manager to last the course at United, if the G’s and Woody has understood that their haphazard way is flawed and the club needs being built in a consistent way over time, we will be on the right course even if Solskjær fails to deliver results on the pitch in the longer run. We will get a new manager who are thinking in roughly the same vein as Solskjær, and will be able to make use of the players Solskjær have assembled, and of the talent produced by an Academy thinking along the same lines.
If, however, Allegri is the next manager, it will prove that Solskjær was not hired because his Woody wanted his ideas of building the club, but because Woodward thought he would be a good quick fix appointment. Or that Woodward simply doesn’t care, and would actually pick any momentarily popular choice. Or that Woodgate’s understanding of cinsistency and building process is so low that he could be able to think ‘oh well, now we’ve tried concistency for twelve months, it obviously doesn’t work, let’s go for haphazard instead, or maybe the famed Woodward Gut Feeling.
Either of those scenarios would be too depressing to even bother considering, and a clear proof that the owners have actually no idea whatsoever what they are dealing with, and are not able to or interested in learning either. Let’s hope (against much evidence?) that it isn’t so.
Have bad track record with owners.
He'd walk within 3 months if he had to deal with someone like Woodward
Indeed.
Also fishy is the number of posters claiming to have supported United for decades yet insisting that we “aren’t a sacking club”.
Not my first choice but he's an upgrade on Ole so I would have to say yes.
We've had four managers, two of whom were proven winners. We've also had countless world class players who have failed at Old Trafford (and some of whom have been world class again after leaving)
It seems to make no difference how good someone is - Old Trafford is currently toxic and there's a problem which goes beyond personnel.
It seems to make no difference how good someone is - Old Trafford is currently toxic and there's a problem which goes beyond personnel.
Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are defending the idea of keeping Ole for as long as it takes to rebuild the club in his image, regardless of on field results.
So what would be your solution?
He wont take the job until the end of the season, i dont want him on a 3 year contract. I would look to other, more interim, options. Then appoint a manager for longer in the summer. The key here is in the summer, not the interim manager after a nice run of games mid season
Our form is shocking and we're reaching a new low on a weekly basis. You can't expect the club not to reach to that especially since Ole has been out of depth at any club outside Norway.
Appoint Allegri as first team coach, and move Ole to Director of Football.
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Look at all those people thinking you can get paid millions per year managing a big club without expectations or pressure, oh and that David Moyes “deserves” more time.
Ffs some people live on another planet I swear.
Ffs some people live on another planet I swear.