plain and simple bad faith from @ArjenIsM3 there... ffs he was 1-1 at 60min time in both of them too... he also had momentum in both, losing to a dubious no-penalty call on pogba followed by conceding through a deadly counter vs barca and losing to a deflected shoot by casemiro and subsequent floodgate vs real
Would you give the job to Allegri right now?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
plain and simple bad faith from @ArjenIsM3 there... ffs he was 1-1 at 60min time in both of them too... he also had momentum in both, losing to a dubious no-penalty call on pogba followed by conceding through a deadly counter vs barca and losing to a deflected shoot by casemiro and subsequent floodgate vs real
Except there isn't. If it was you wouldn't have to stretch back 14 years for an example. Proof is in the pudding.
What do you think, that we will spend shit loads and bring in game changers in January? Our best bet is Mandzukic and Can, neither of whom are comparable to Evra/Vidic.
Now you stop trying to start an argument. I just mentioned that we brought in Evra and Vidic in January to prove that good players can be found in January if we really look. You mentioned Mandzukic and Can, not me. I said there is players to be got and much better than what we have.
Look let's just leave this here, as you just seem set on wanting an argument, and the last word. Goodbye.
No one's arguing, this is a forum for debate. I'm just saying you can't claim there are players available and resort to examples from 14 years ago to justify value in January. The truth is there is no value in January. Everyone knows that.
Mourinho won with this squad. You can't possibly say the signings 'improved' us when we're in fecking relegation battle.
Allegri comes and guaranteed he wins one trophy at least THIS season or at least gets us in top 4.
Team that won Europa League:
GK 20
Sergio Romero
RB 25
Antonio Valencia (c)
CB 12
Chris Smalling
CB 17
Daley Blind
LB 36
Matteo Darmian
DM 21
Ander Herrera
RM 8 Juan Mata
78'
90'
CM 27
Marouane Fellaini
52'
CM 6
Paul Pogba
LM 22
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
31'
74'
CF 19 Marcus Rashford
84'
Substitutes:
GK 1 David de Gea
DF 4 Phil Jones
DF 24 Timothy Fosu-Mensah
MF 14 Jesse Lingard
74'
MF 16 Michael Carrick
FW 10 Wayne Rooney
90'
FW 11 Anthony Martial
84'
Manager:
José Mourinho
I count 7 from the starting line-up that are not here. Much more experience also.
Im sure we will end higher up in Premier League this season than that team wich was 6th.
We played 9 games with alot of injuries and the squad is paper thin.
And you cant see us improved in defence? really.
"Allegri comes and guaranteed he wins one trophy at least THIS season or at least gets us in top 4." i would love to taste whatever you are smoking, cause it must be epic.
GK 20
Sergio RomeroRB 25
Antonio Valencia (c)CB 12
Chris SmallingCB 17
Daley BlindLB 36
Matteo DarmianDM 21
Ander HerreraRM 8
Juan Mata
CM 27
Marouane Fellaini
CM 6
Paul PogbaLM 22
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
CF 19
Marcus Rashford
Substitutes:
GK 1 David de Gea
DF 4 Phil Jones
DF 24 Timothy Fosu-Mensah
MF 14 Jesse Lingard
MF 16 Michael Carrick
FW 10 Wayne Rooney
FW 11 Anthony Martial
Manager:
José Mourinho
I count 7 from the starting line-up that are not here. Much more experience also.
Im sure we will end higher up in Premier League this season than that team wich was 6th.
We played 9 games with alot of injuries and the squad is paper thin.
And you cant see us improved in defence? really.
"Allegri comes and guaranteed he wins one trophy at least THIS season or at least gets us in top 4." i would love to taste whatever you are smoking, cause it must be epic.
"Allegri comes and guaranteed he wins one trophy at least THIS season or at least gets us in top 4." i would love to taste whatever you are smoking, cause it must be epic.[/QUOTE]
Completely agree with the above, the thing is you can’t have an opinion like this without being called an Ole fan boy.
Nobody thinks Ole is doing particularly well but there are reasons people are willing to let things play out this season, rather than swap for another stop gap manager and throw another couple of hundred million against the wall.
Completely agree with the above, the thing is you can’t have an opinion like this without being called an Ole fan boy.
Nobody thinks Ole is doing particularly well but there are reasons people are willing to let things play out this season, rather than swap for another stop gap manager and throw another couple of hundred million against the wall.
Arsenal signed Aubameyang
Chelsea Pulisic, Palmieri, Giroud
Leicester Tielemans
Liverpool VVD
City Laporte
Spurs Moura
Just a few from the last 2 Jan windows
Completely agree with the above, the thing is you can’t have an opinion like this without being called an Ole fan boy.
Nobody thinks Ole is doing particularly well but there are reasons people are willing to let things play out this season, rather than swap for another stop gap manager and throw another couple of hundred million against the wall.[/QUOTE]
Good to hear someone that understands mate.
Aubameyang stunk out the Dortmund dressing room and was getting toxic.
VVD was doing the same, his was just an summer overdue target.
Laporte was forever linked with a move away and even still it took a large amount.
Tielemans was a loan and was made perm in the summer.
Moura was surplus to requirements.
Pulisic actually joined in the summer.
Name me a single target that we can get whose on par with your named players.
I listed the players signed in the last 2 Jan windows to PL clubs, some of them are not big name players either.
Jan is obviously a harder window, and if we're not going after big name galactico signings anyway maybe there could be some deals that could be done.
Dani Olmo - If the side don't qualify for UCL knockouts, may be a possibility
Piątek - Milan not doing so well, maybe he would be up for the move. He not that loyal as we've seen already, and Milan apparently signing Mandzukic
Partey - Release clause, depends if he is interested in a move though, however his agent did mention the players wanted to play in the PL. Since its a release clause its down to the player not the club
Obviously the more high profile player would need to wait till summer, but we don't need all of our signings to be high profile. I'm sure there must be other players playing for lesser clubs or playing in lesser leagues, or not playing in Europe that we could also target.
Why ? He did a terrible job at Milan
Thought he only managed semis so I stand corrected.
He won the league for the first time in many years and kept them high until too many good players were sold.
And that was when Milan still had a decent side. Also take into account Juve were still shit while Inter who won the Treble the year before were semi-destroyed by Rafa's incompetence.
Allegri is good coach but are we willing to go again the same way as we have done? Changing manager every 1-2 years. Getting him is no guarantee of immediately success. And with Allegri, we still have the same players. It's not like he can take Juventus with him.
I'm not sure about your point here but it doesn't equate to doing a terrible job, he did well by at least matching expectations. By the end of his tenure Milan were deep into their fire sale and I still laugh at the goalkeepers and defenders they had.
It's not like Milan were outright favourites when he joined.
No, I would go for Hodgson or Big Sam
Well, he's hungry and British, so ticks two of the boxes
AC Milan won the league under Allegri in 2010-2011. Prior to that they last won the league in 2003-2004 ie 7 years prior. Throughout that gap AC Milan ended
2004-2005 - 2nd
2005-2006 - 3rd
2006-2007 - 4th
2007-2008 - 5th
2008-2009 - 3rd
As you can see prior to Allegri AC Milan weren't fairing really great
They won the champions league though, twice if you include the one in 02. The one that knocked us out was one of their greatest ever.
James Maddison
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No.
2009-2010 - 3rd
Ibrahimovic joins
2010-2011 - 1st
2011-2012 - 2nd
Ibrahimovic leaves
2012-2013 - 3rd
2013-2014 - 11th when sacked
On what grounds is Allegri better than Klopp and Pep.
Yes. I acknowledge he’s good coach based on his accomplishments. But. He dominated a one team league. Serie A has only opened up a bit this year again.
Are you telling me that pep wouldn’t have done the same with juve.
Allegri is a great coach. But, i don’t think his playing style is suited to what our fans would want. Plus, it would be another completely different direction to what we already working towards.
Also, winning with a one team juve is different from getting Man Utd challenging again. Ask Jose and van gaal.
We already tried Jose a winning manager. I think at this point, we just need a manager that can get us to champions league qualifying level with positive football.
Like sides like Barcelona or even Dortmund there needs to be priority over a style of play and a type of player. By choosing Allegri, it would mean that Woodward still has learned nothing from his previous mistakes.
They did, against Liverpool whom similarly to AC Milan were a cup team with no chance in hell of winning their respective league.
We signed Ibra as well and that didn't translated into a league title didn't it? The AC Milan of 2010-2011 was a hot potch of old players (Nesta, Inzaghi, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Oddo, Ambrosini), rejects from elsewhere (Robinho, Ronaldinho, Flamini), an injury prone player who were screwing the owner's daughter (Pato) and of course 2-3 top players (Ibra, Thiago Silva, Cassano). That's not a nightmare of a team to manage. The seniors had won everything and they wouldn't stand criticism from a then inexperienced manager. Pato was untouchable since he was sleeping with Barbara Berlusconi. Ronaldinho was by the time simply picking the salary. His motivation for football had long gone. Then there was the bad boys ie Ibra and Cassano. The former was far more difficult to manage back then then he was with us while the latter was Balotelli's standards of madness.
Not to forget what was going behind the scenes.
A- intrusive owner who thinks he's Sir Alex level of tactical brilliance whom when not busy escaping justice he was busy trying to force his tactics on the manager.
B- an obsolete CEO who would buy any free transfer he could get his hands upon.
C- Barbara Berlusconi who shared her father's lust, ambitions and love in intruding on football manners without sharing his experience in football. Towards the end little Barbara would engage herself in an open warfare with Galliani because she basically wanted his job.
AC Milan was a powder keg ready to explode. Allegri managed to win the league and kept doing well until Berlusconi basically stripped him of every player who knew how to play football. In 2011-2012 Milan got rid of Pirlo, Jankulovski and Legrottaglie, In 2012-2013, 4 legends left the team (Gattuso, Nesta, Inzaghi and Seedorf) + Milan sold off Thiago Silva, Cassano and Ibra. Their replacement were, erm, De Jong, Bojan, Pazzini + Montolivo & Mexes on free. Despite all that AC Milan managed to come 3rd. Then in 2013 Milan sold off Boateng and Flamini with Ambrosini retiring and bam all went down like an avalanche.
What Allegri did at AC Milan was extraordinary. I dare to say at par to what he did with Juventus. I can understand people having concerns about his defensive style. However don't criticise him on what he did at AC Milan. He was the first man AC Milan wanted when he became available.
Also no one has as much experience in managing a crap squad with delusions of grandeur and bad owners to match better then Massimiliano Allegri. The reason being that unlike most managers the guy has no philosophy. He builds his tactics bottom up ie basing on his players strengths and weaknesses. He's also one of the greatest communicators in football which means that he rarely loses the dressing room.
He is better than Klopp point blank. Pep is better historically of course, but Allegri had better results than Pep in 5 years he was at Juve.
Are we never getting past the 'one team league' BS? Roma and Napoli got 87 and 88 points in consecutive seasons. Juventus had to go 90+ pts in 4 straight years to win the title, Juventus haven't been past 1/4 final of CL in 12 years before he came. Then they went to 2 finals with two completely different teams. They hadn't won a cup in 20 years before he won it 4 years in a row. Milan didn't win the league in 7 years and weren't higher than 3rd in 4 years before he came. He holds the highest win % by any coach in Juventus' history. Stop with underestimating please, look outside of England, there's good football played outside of England and Spain I promise. In the last 5 years we had 2 teams win the league who were mid-table/bottom half teams the year before, we can't possibly be looking down on others. Other than last year his Juve would've won the Prem pretty easily during this period.
Pep almost certainly wouldn't do the same. Man needs one system, one type of player and continuity year in year out. Juventus changed so many players over the years, they were almost unrecognizable year to year. He only managed stacked teams and had all the riches at his disposal wherever he went and didn't come close to sniffing the final, let alone winning the CL in almost a decade.
Also, please stop with 'style of football' propaganda. It's fine to say you don't like Allegri's style (but judging from your post I don't think you have any idea how he plays), but Man United never had a style of play like Barcelona. Fans prefer that so they want that and have convinced themselves that United was always that and should be that in the future. We weren't.
Also people have this misconception that hipster attacking coaches and football are the only way to go, that only them win the big trophies etc, when in fact pragmatic coaches have won way more than people with one system and one philosophy.
We need a winning, smart, flexible coach who knows how to make the best with lesser talent but also how to build a team, work with big players and egos and has a winning mentality. Allegri ticks every one of those boxes and we'd be incredibly lucky to have him.
How long will he take to win with this united team?
1)He doesn’t speak English right now,so what??Pochettino couldn’t speak a word of English when he first came to England...If he gets appointed he will learn how to speak the language,this isn’t an issue at all.
2)6 league titles and he reached 2 CL finals....Quite a decent CV
3)He’s 52,the same age as Klopp..Hardly a dinosaur...
4)Yeah,please help the club in finding the “next Pep/Klopp”....I”m sure you will find dozens in every street...
1. is an issue as he'll need to speak it before he gets here
2. Decent enough cv, but things went downhill at ac milan and the league titles were won in a 1 horse league. 2 cl finals is good but he lost them both and the footy on display wasn't good to watch at all. Very Mourinho esque.
3. Not about age, it's about tactics and style of play as I've explained before.
4. I've already mentioned a few highly rated managers who are ready for a step up and who fit the bill better. Only reason you'd want Allegri over any of them is because on paper he has a better Cv. It's Mourinho all over again.
Serie A has stopped becoming a one league team for the past 3 years or so. Juve aren't winning it without breaking a sweat like say PSG. There has been a strong competition from Napoli and now Inter is also rising.
Allegri managed 2 CL finals which Conte couldn't and his Juve side with all its dominance was underwhelming in Europe. Allegri solved this. He's a top tier manager unless any defensive manager is now a dinosaur for some or something.
Allegri managed 2 CL finals which Conte couldn't and his Juve side with all its dominance was underwhelming in Europe. Allegri solved this. He's a top tier manager unless any defensive manager is now a dinosaur for some or something.
I'm with you on this. It's same posters that were pro-Mourinho that now want Allegri.
The fact that his buddies in the press are talking about how he'll get us winning a title in x amount of time, says it all.
Some people think that it's as simple as getting a coach like Allegri and everything is fixed and we'll back to our winning ways.
That's exactly what was expected with Mourinho and Van Gaal. Then things don't go according to plan, we get frustrated with their boring style of play. Then they start having threads on the next manager that will fix things.
I'm all up for a new manager at some point, if Ole doesn't get us in the right direction. But, we first need to steady our ship. Get a consistent style of football and the right type of player and build a system. Rather than get a coach like Allegri and undo his work.
Whoever we get must be able to build on Ole's positives. Otherwise, we are going round in circles. This what these big name manager fan boys don't get.
I agree. It will take one hell of a manger to come in here and change things around immediately, unless he has a magic wand. Using that want to knock Woodward off his perch first.
Absolutely not.
Leave Ole do the job he was hired to do.
We all knew it would be rough on times, considering the squad overhaul required.
Ole needs at least 3 more transfer windows
Leave Ole do the job he was hired to do.
We all knew it would be rough on times, considering the squad overhaul required.
Ole needs at least 3 more transfer windows
Very good post
Dembele, Mandzukic, Bale, Olmo, Eriksen etc etc and obviously the 6ft 5 god himself King Zlatan
Dembele and Olmo might cost more in January but still attainable due to the stature of their clubs and the rest would be dirt cheap barring wages.
I'm very confident he would either win something immediately or qualify for top 4 if he comes by the next international break.
Win consistently and not just like Mourinho did? By his first full season.