Wot, no transfers? It's all happening now!

Godfather said:
Thanks for stating the obvious. Point is Dortmund said from the start what they wanted for him. And if we can't pay it he stays. We obviously can't and still haven't looked for alternatives to strengthen our right side leaving us with a paper thin squad again. It's just terrible management all around and there's simply no two ways about it.
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The fact is we don't have a clue what discussions have actually taken place between both clubs. As has been mentioned above, clubs will always start with an absolute price for sale but it's very rare that the price is completely non-negotiable.

What's also apparent is that Dortmund have been very keen not to let the story die, with their continued insistence on price and Sancho 'staying'. If the deal really was as non-negotiable as we're led to believe, why bother stringing things along?

I personally believe we'll still get the deal done. If so, and it happens to be at the original asking price, I won't criticise the club for trying to drive it down over the last couple months. If we fail to get it done and don't strengthen, then the club clearly have once again gone it wrong.

Only time will tell, but football transfers are never as simple as "that's the price, pay it".
 
Leftback99 said:
Leverkusen said they wanted more for Havertz than what Chelsea paid, Bayern with Thiago etc etc.

Would you always pay the asking price for a house, car etc? Are you that easy to negotiate with?

How do you know we haven't looked for alternatives when we're still most likely chasing the first choice?
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Difference with buying a car/house, the seller wants to sell. Dortmund don’t. It’s no different to when we told Madrid to pay £150m for Pogba or sod off.
 
Leftback99 said:
Leverkusen said they wanted more for Havertz than what Chelsea paid, Bayern with Thiago etc etc.

Would you always pay the asking price for a house, car etc? Are you that easy to negotiate with?

How do you know we haven't looked for alternatives when we're still most likely chasing the first choice?
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Thing is I doubt we can even afford close to what they are asking for which makes this whole thing a big farce and which is why we should have moved on long ago.

Also Havertz actively pushed for the move. As was Thiago. Plus Thiago ran out of contract.

We are in a very bad situation for any kind of negotiation here. Sancho seems fine with staying for another year and Dortmund don't want to sell. They'll get just as much for him next year.

So yes in this instance we will have to pay up to get him or move on
 
Have we had tunnel vision yet again this year? Where we seem incapable of arranging more than one transfer deal at a time, and once again we've been trying to get one big deal done whilst other options have gone elsewhere, and now we're stuck with feck all?

Three weeks to go, I know. But I will genuinely surprised if anything happens.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Have we had tunnel vision yet again this year? Where we seem incapable of arranging more than one transfer deal at a time, and once again we've been trying to get one big deal done whilst other options have gone elsewhere, and now we're stuck with feck all?

Three weeks to go, I know. But I will genuinely surprised if anything happens.
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Sancho was used as an excuse not to sign anyone else
 
Godfather said:
We knew exactly the amount Dortmund wanted from the start. Couldn't bring it up and therefore should have looked for alternatives. I suspect though we never intended to spend more money after VdB anyway.
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We should have been looking at alternatives from the start as it became clear Dortmund were being difficult. No idea why we’re still chasing this, or if we actually are, but we’re right to not bend over and pay whatever fee they pull out with no questions asked. That said, watch us do it anyway.
 
devilish said:
TBF it's not the Glazer's money either. They bought us on debt using the club as a collateral.

Irrespective of that, no one expected us to buy Sancho. All we expected is for the club to invest on decent players that would improve the squad. It's called progression. The Glazer's bought United when we were the best club in the UK and one of the best clubs in Europe. They have a moral obligation to make sure that we invest on enough players to one day return to that level once again. The club's money is not all about paying their debt, their salaries and their dividends.
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Let’s not get into that. We’re agreed that we needed to invest more this summer. My point is that you don’t just blindly pay whatever fee a club pulls out of their arse.
 
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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All of this makes sense, however it doesn't explain why so much time has been wasted on this. Dortmund are like that with their players, they were never gonna budge so why persist ? Not signing Sancho doesn't bother me one bit, it's all the time wasted on his pursuit.
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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Forget next year if we don't get him now then he won't ever play for this club
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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Who's this? You have no idea what's left in the pot every year or what utd are allowed to spend? Utd wouldn't go bust if they over spent for 1 year,
 
crossy1686 said:
Ole gets a free ride this season. Even his most staunch critics must see that he's being absolutely shafted by the board this summer.
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Regardless of transfers, he shouldn't get a free ride. The squad as it is should do better, in terms of points and goals, than last season. Finishing another league campaign with fewer than 75 points would be a massive failure even if we bring in no one else (which looks almost certain at the moment).
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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I think the majority understand that we shouldn’t spend irresponsibly, but the only reason we can’t buy Sancho without ‘plunging’ into more debt is because the owners saddled us with debt to take over in the first place.

Or perhaps we’d be able to spend the money if they didn’t take out hundreds of millions in dividends?

Trying to justify them not investing is embarrassing. Without them we’d have absolutely no issue going out and getting him.
 
Godfather said:
Thing is I doubt we can even afford close to what they are asking for which makes this whole thing a big farce and which is why we should have moved on long ago.

Also Havertz actively pushed for the move. As was Thiago. Plus Thiago ran out of contract.

We are in a very bad situation for any kind of negotiation here. Sancho seems fine with staying for another year and Dortmund don't want to sell. They'll get just as much for him next year.

So yes in this instance we will have to pay up to get him or move on
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They can't be sure of that at all. We know it and they know it. It's a very blinkered way of looking at it to assume that us or anyone else will be in the market for a £100m+ winger next summer.
 
shahzy said:
And wasted a majority of that. Incompetence also flows from the top. Not just the managerial appointments and players
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I wouldn;t say wasted but certainly overspent. The improvement in our defence is evident yet we probably need to still upgrade 2 or 3 positions in our defence to be taken seriously. Its mad.
 
YNWAManUnited said:
So Woodward/Glazers are getting increasingly frustrated about the fans getting increasingly frustrated about Woodward/Glazers. Good stuff!
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Indeed!

Godfather said:
I wonder who's at fault there. Briefing the press for more than a year that we want Sancho and then not to deliver... Well what did these geniuses expect?
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ShinjiNinja26 said:
How about they get their fecking act together and get some deals done then!
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Agreed.
 
PIcking up on the Haaland discussion in the Sancho thread - if he really has a buyout at 63m next summer, given where we are and IF Ole is still manager, I could see that being a deal that makes almost all the sense. Ighalo back off, would create an awesome front 4 of options (Martial/Rashford for the left; Haaland/Greenwood/Martial for middle; Greenwood on the right - ok we do still need a RWF obv).
 
The door opens and the familiar smell of stale cider mixed with Paco Rabanne "1 Million" wafts through the air.

Woodward - "We're gonna sign Sancho!"
The World - "OK, that's great but if you cou-"
Woodward - "SANCHO IS COMING TO UNITED!!!"
The World - "...right, but maybe just wait until-"
Woodward - "Swear on me nan's life, bruv! Next Season. SanchooOOooOoo."

Three months later

The World - "Hey Ed, any updates on that Sancho dea-"
Woodward - "omg guys stop bullying me not nice fecking blocked mate"
 
At this point we're a building waiting to collapse that's getting a new coat of gold paint so that people who walk by think everything is alright.

And the janitor is a meth addict.
 
Zen86 said:
Let’s not get into that. We’re agreed that we needed to invest more this summer. My point is that you don’t just blindly pay whatever fee a club pulls out of their arse.
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So let's agree that this is not the Glazers money. If we buy Sancho then it will probably be done through a loan. That will be added to the huge loan the Glazers took to buy our club, a Clun who once had zero loans and was able to sign the best local talent without beating too much sweat. Meanwhile if we don't sign Sancho then the money might be used to pay the loan interest or it might go to the Glazers in form of dividend

With that out of the way let's focus on Sancho. No one forced us to go for him. If we signed for example Ziyech instead then no one would have complained. Instead we focused on Sancho despite knowing fully well that the guy would be ridiculously expensive. So why blame the fans for this high expectations? It's like a parent who promised his boy that he's going to buy him a car to a ferrari store only to give him 5k to spend whatever car he wants.

Don’t take me wrong every club makes cock ups. However we do them on a yearly basis. Which makes you wonder why on earth we haven't yet brought foot people in to take football related issues instead of sticking to two bankers. We were promised a DOF. Where is he????
 
Leftback99 said:
They can't be sure of that at all. We know it and they know it. It's a very blinkered way of looking at it to assume that us or anyone else will be in the market for a £100m+ winger next summer.
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Ok but they'll still have a world class young winger that every big team will be going for, only with 2 years left on his contract instead of 3. Which is still basically full price. So whatever they value each season of him as is the difference they'd probably be ok with between his price this summer and next summer (but it likely won't be a huge reduction). Leroy Sane off the back of an ACL surgery, not being rated as highly as Sancho, and just 1 year left on his contract went for 50m from City to Bayern. Thats probably what they're using as comparisons, along with Havertz price. 108m isn't a crazy fee for him, that's just the fee it takes to get him. Either pay it or move on if you can't afford it. There is no such thing as a realistic or unrealistic demands, the demands are what they are for players that a club doesn't want to sell and are the most wanted attackers around Europe.
 
On a completely unrelated note Sancho is 11/10 on skybet to stay at Dortmund, surely it’s basically printing?
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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Owners are allowed to invest into their football clubs. The Glazers have invested none of their own money into us, saddled us with debt of their own making, and then just sit and take the profits from the club with little intention to pay off that debt. They just leech off of the club and provide nothing for it.
 
Lentwood said:
It's no surprise that football fans can't be patient but I seriously don't know what some of our fans fail to understand about finance in football.

Let me make it clear (I created an entire thread with all the detail behind this) - the Glazers allow United to spend basically as much as we can possibly afford without plunging the club into (more) debt. We don't have a huge pot of cash left over at the end of every season which somehow the Glazers refuse to spend. It's demonstrably not the case.

If fans want us to spend irresponsibly that's their prerogative, but that never ends well for clubs in the long-run.

I would absolutely love us to sign Sancho, but not if it risks the financial stability of the club...and there's always next year
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I get it. But I don't think the difference between spending 120 million euros and what United are offering is going to plunge the club into the financial abyss.

Most fans don't mind penny pinching over smaller transfers but, for the big ones, where we have a definite need, it doesn't make any sense. It's only hurting us on the pitch, which will in turn hurt us financially off the pitch
 
Matthew84! said:
Who's this? You have no idea what's left in the pot every year or what utd are allowed to spend? Utd wouldn't go bust if they over spent for 1 year,
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We do know this for a fact. Utd have shareholders. We publish a detailed annual report every year. You can read them, they’re on the website
 
AdNani said:
I think the majority understand that we shouldn’t spend irresponsibly, but the only reason we can’t buy Sancho without ‘plunging’ into more debt is because the owners saddled us with debt to take over in the first place.

Or perhaps we’d be able to spend the money if they didn’t take out hundreds of millions in dividends?

Trying to justify them not investing is embarrassing. Without them we’d have absolutely no issue going out and getting him.
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None of that has anything to do with what I posted. We can argue all day long about whether we would be better off without the Glazers but the reality is, whether we like them or not, they spend as much money as we can spend once all of our outgoings are accounted for - and yes those outgoings include interest for the loan and dividends (which are nowhere near hundred of millions btw...again, read the clubs annual reports)
 
devilish said:
So let's agree that this is not the Glazers money. If we buy Sancho then it will probably be done through a loan. That will be added to the huge loan the Glazers took to buy our club, a Clun who once had zero loans and was able to sign the best local talent without beating too much sweat. Meanwhile if we don't sign Sancho then the money might be used to pay the loan interest or it might go to the Glazers in form of dividend

With that out of the way let's focus on Sancho. No one forced us to go for him. If we signed for example Ziyech instead then no one would have complained. Instead we focused on Sancho despite knowing fully well that the guy would be ridiculously expensive. So why blame the fans for this high expectations? It's like a parent who promised his boy that he's going to buy him a car to a ferrari store only to give him 5k to spend whatever car he wants.

Don’t take me wrong every club makes cock ups. However we do them on a yearly basis. Which makes you wonder why on earth we haven't yet brought foot people in to take football related issues instead of sticking to two bankers. We were promised a DOF. Where is he????
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I see you’re using this as an excuse to go off on a tangent, not entirely sure what the point you’re making is. If it’s that this summer hasn’t been very good, then I agree.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
How about they get their fecking act together and get some deals done then!
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This.

I'd understand if the board said this after they'd already backed Ole with a few bodies. But they've obviously just been sat on the beach with their fingers up their bums all off-season. Then moan that people have noticed.
 
Lentwood said:
None of that has anything to do with what I posted. We can argue all day long about whether we would be better off without the Glazers but the reality is, whether we like them or not, they spend as much money as we can spend once all of our outgoings are accounted for - and yes those outgoings include interest for the loan and dividends (which are nowhere near hundred of millions btw...again, read the clubs annual reports)
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It does though, because whether they spend within their means is irrelevant, because without them, we’d still spend within our means but be able to comfortable shell out money for a player like Sancho. It’s not hundreds of millions each year but in total? Easy.
 
AdNani said:
I think the majority understand that we shouldn’t spend irresponsibly, but the only reason we can’t buy Sancho without ‘plunging’ into more debt is because the owners saddled us with debt to take over in the first place.

Or perhaps we’d be able to spend the money if they didn’t take out hundreds of millions in dividends?

Trying to justify them not investing is embarrassing. Without them we’d have absolutely no issue going out and getting him.
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And that’s why we’ll never get rid of them, there’s too many fans trying to justify/defend their business model, don’t spend X amount because of our debt? Who the fecks fault is that?

I saw one poster argue that they should be allowed to take out dividends because it’s their money. When did they ever use any of their money to buy our club, I could see the argument for it if they did and this isn’t just about spending 120m on one player, this is about how the club is run and how they’ve rinsed the feck out of us fans for years.

I find it so odd that people try and defend and rationalise their ownership and what they have done for this club and they will call fans that want to stand against it as spoilt.

It’s because of this we’ll never be rid of them.
 
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