Wot, no transfers? It's all happening now!

Fluctuation0161 said:
Top clubs have not struggled as badly as we have, especially when you consider our financial advantage and previous positions. Champions league football has been a rarity since for us 2013!

For a start, you plan by having a style of play that you want to stick to, and a number of managers who could facilitate that broad vision. Think Brendan Rodgers transitioning to Klopp. Or even Pellegrini to Guardiola. Then, you look at the average time at a club for Premiership managers. What is it, 2 to 3 years max as an average. It is hardly choosing a wife on your wedding day with those stats. Don't be ridiculous.

It is evident from my previous post to you, how we lacked any semblance of forward planning by lurching between 2 managers with totally contrasting playing styles, investing heavily with each on and having to start the rebuild from scratch each time. Massive mistake from Woodward, sackable offence.
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No one has the monopoly of knowledge on these matters, just opinion no more no less. Every football club starting position is different and people seem to have amnesia about the success we have historically had for decades. This was naturally going to come to an end irrespective of how much you plan especially when the greatest manager in football leaves the club. You simply cannot replace that easily or compare other clubs that haven't had that level of success under the same manager. You realise Liverpool who dominated the league took 30 years to win the Prem. Do you think they thought it would take this long?

Also you seem to think we are the only horse in the race? We have no god given right to continue to be successful and irrespective of how you plan, there will be others that will prove to be better. Unfortunately some fans were born into the success of the club and know nothing other than that. Brendon Rogers got the sack, there was no transition. Are you suggesting that the graveyard of managers at city was some kind of plan? The average of prem is based on failure not success. This proves the difficulty of the task in hand and something that we didn't have to even consider for two decades. You don't resolve that matter overnight and it will continue to be a painful process, the same the other big clubs have and still enduring now.

Hindsight we as fans have the benefit of as it's an exact science. Did SAF in anyway reflect the managers before him, based on your thinking we should have employed someone that was more akin to Big Rom? Funny enough Alex still got a tune out of the previous managers players whilst adding his own players and playing style. Patience rather than knee jerk responses because we are still trying to find a solution post SAF. Ole might be the best manager since but it will take time more than it will take money.
 
kirk buttercup said:
I'm still pretty calm . I reckon we will bring in 3 signings and I think one of them will be Sancho. Dont Panic!
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Part of me feels that way because it's always quiet before the storm. So either we're doing feck all or we're working on something. I reckon that if United either did not have the ability to do the Sancho deal or did not want to, that they'd have moved on by now and sign a back up or at the very least moved on to other positions that need addressing like a CB and maybe CDM or left back or something. I find it impossible to believe we're not cooking something up.
 
Chairman Steve said:
I'll start to be concerned if nothings happened after two weeks from now. I'd like to think as soon as this Sancho business is sorted, the rest of it is more straightforward and won't be as protracted.

I'm hoping we can get three players altogether. We shouldn't go apeshit like Chelsea are doing who are only doing it because they have a serious case of transfer blueballs after getting banned, and good luck to them trying to get 5-6 new players integrated into their team at once and managing to get good results.
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But that's the point. Sancho deal is independent of other areas we desperately need to address. Its clear as day that central defence is a problem. Where is the central defender. No I don't mean Tuanzebe who is not proven. I mean an experienced good defender. Lindelof has proven to be a pointless defender. Why are United not concluding deals for other targets?
 
USREDEVIL said:
Part of me feels that way because it's always quiet before the storm. So either we're doing feck all or we're working on something. I reckon that if United either did not have the ability to do the Sancho deal or did not want to, that they'd have moved on by now and sign a back up or at the very least moved on to other positions that need addressing like a CB and maybe CDM or left back or something. I find it impossible to believe we're not cooking something up.
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It's interesting as whilst people think we need a CB, CDM and LB, maybe the club doesn't? Sancho improves us but arguably, not one of Chelsea signing would as they don't start over what we have nor would they come to sit on the bench. If we are looking to sign players, who in world football that are 'available' do we sign that comes immediately into our team and improves it. Yes people can roll off a number of names but many aren't available or equally may not want to leave their club. Also it's not everyone's desire to play in the prem or for Utd.
 
Stretender said:
But that's the point. Sancho deal is independent of other areas we desperately need to address. Its clear as day that central defence is a problem. Where is the central defender. No I don't mean Tuanzebe who is not proven. I mean an experienced good defender. Lindelof has proven to be a pointless defender. Why are United not concluding deals for other targets?
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Which experienced good defender? You know City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Real et al are arguably looking for one too.....
 
Litch said:
Which experienced good defender? You know City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Real et al are arguably looking for one too.....
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So does that mean United stop looking because City and Chelsea are also looking? You and me don't need to know who this defender is, it's why United pay scouts for. They have to find that defender. That's their job.
 
Woodward and Judge definitely don't fill you with confidence, but I am confident we'll bring in Sancho.
 
Stretender said:
So does that mean United stop looking because City and Chelsea are also looking? You and me don't need to know who this defender is, it's why United pay scouts for. They have to find that defender. That's their job.
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That's not my point, it's that it's competitive and therefore not easy to identify those players. Ole mentions to a player that we are interested in him, next he's signing for City. Even with scouts, there aren't that many experienced CB available out there and that's partially why you end up paying 80m for a 50m defender.
 
Why don’t we sign bargains anymore like we did with Javier Hernandez for 6m. The problem with our club is that we give insane contracts to players that are terrible. For example:

Brandon Williams is on 65k a week for god sake. He can’t even take a man on or cross a ball!

And to add to the list

Jese Lingard 75k a week
Phil Jones 75k a week
De gea 375k a week
Rashford 200k a week
Fred 120k a week
Lindelof 120k a week
Mata 160k a week
Shaw 150k a week

We give bumper contracts to incredibly average players. The only one you could argue is De Gea’s as he was the best in the world at one point but 375k? Seriously.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
We should have bought him in already and stop pissing about. 120m is a very fair price.
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With the minor caveat that you don’t know if that’s within our financial capabilities. Closing 100m+ deals is a major undertaking with huge ramifications. There’s a ton of due diligence, moving parts and financial analysis to be done. Especially with regard to the stance of the selling club, their response times, and the structure, timing and weighting of the payments. Before we even get into agents and intermediary fees, which apparently Dortmund are insisting on using.

I swear that the depth of most business understanding on here comes from Football Manager. I also guarantee that Woodward and Judge are more intelligent, and better operators than almost anyone on the Caf. Following Caf logic the club would’ve been bankrupt years ago.

People spend all this time criticising people for the job they are doing, without having any understanding of what their job entails, and the considerations required. I am CEO of a small company, valued at around 22M, and even at that size I can tell you how complex dealing making, financial forecasting, and operations are. For a multi billion pound business, it reaches a level of complexity that is so far beyond most people. We have so many experts on here who have not even a rudimentary understanding of business. My favourite lineI see parroted over and over is the classic “Why are we haggling over a few million?”, like it isn’t a huge amount of money.

When you hear statements like that, or “just pay what they want and get him in”, you realise you are hearing opinions borne out of ignorance, frustration, and a short attention span.

The club obviously want top players, and have shown they are willing to spend huge amounts of money for players they want. What we’ve seen is an overhaul of how we identify and screen potential signings, and as a result our purchases since we brought in Ole, have been excellent. I chose to put my faith in that, and understand it may take time to get these deals done. Get the right player, at a financially prudent price. That’s the managements mandate, and I’m confident they’ll do that. If we don’t sign Sancho it’s because we can’t afford the fee. Given the Covid crisis, there is no shame in that.

It’s probably akin to telling the Hulk to “just calm down”, but what people here need is some patience and a level head.
 
So 2 weeks since Sancho's deadline passed and since our rumors for Sancho died pretty much. No actual links with literally any other player since (barely even the blatantly fake ones). The feck are we doing?
 
simonhch said:
With the minor caveat that you don’t know if that’s within our financial capabilities. Closing 100m+ deals is a major undertaking with huge ramifications. There’s a ton of due diligence, moving parts and financial analysis to be done. Especially with regard to the stance of the selling club, their response times, and the structure, timing and weighting of the payments. Before we even get into agents and intermediary fees, which apparently Dortmund are insisting on using.

I swear that the depth of most business understanding on here comes from Football Manager. I also guarantee that Woodward and Judge are more intelligent, and better operators than almost anyone on the Caf. Following Caf logic the club would’ve been bankrupt years ago.

People spend all this time criticising people for the job they are doing, without having any understanding of what their job entails, and the considerations required. I am CEO of a small company, valued at around 22M, and even at that size I can tell you how complex dealing making, financial forecasting, and operations are. For a multi billion pound business, it reaches a level of complexity that is so far beyond most people. We have so many experts on here who have not even a rudimentary understanding of business. My favourite lineI see parroted over and over is the classic “Why are we haggling over a few million?”, like it isn’t a huge amount of money.

When you hear statements like that, or “just pay what they want and get him in”, you realise you are hearing opinions borne out of ignorance, frustration, and a short attention span.

The club obviously want top players, and have shown they are willing to spend huge amounts of money for players they want. What we’ve seen is an overhaul of how we identify and screen potential signings, and as a result our purchases since we brought in Ole, have been excellent. I chose to put my faith in that, and understand it may take time to get these deals done. Get the right player, at a financially prudent price. That’s the managements mandate, and I’m confident they’ll do that. If we don’t sign Sancho it’s because we can’t afford the fee. Given the Covid crisis, there is no shame in that.

It’s probably akin to telling the Hulk to “just calm down”, but what people here need is some patience and a level head.
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Barcelona paid Dortmund 140m for Dembele nice n easy. 120m for the worlds best young player is a good price and and it’s because of the Covid crisis. we should get it done just like Chelsea are with Havertz.
 
simonhch said:
With the minor caveat that you don’t know if that’s within our financial capabilities. Closing 100m+ deals is a major undertaking with huge ramifications. There’s a ton of due diligence, moving parts and financial analysis to be done. Especially with regard to the stance of the selling club, their response times, and the structure, timing and weighting of the payments. Before we even get into agents and intermediary fees, which apparently Dortmund are insisting on using.

I swear that the depth of most business understanding on here comes from Football Manager. I also guarantee that Woodward and Judge are more intelligent, and better operators than almost anyone on the Caf. Following Caf logic the club would’ve been bankrupt years ago.

People spend all this time criticising people for the job they are doing, without having any understanding of what their job entails, and the considerations required. I am CEO of a small company, valued at around 22M, and even at that size I can tell you how complex dealing making, financial forecasting, and operations are. For a multi billion pound business, it reaches a level of complexity that is so far beyond most people. We have so many experts on here who have not even a rudimentary understanding of business. My favourite lineI see parroted over and over is the classic “Why are we haggling over a few million?”, like it isn’t a huge amount of money.

When you hear statements like that, or “just pay what they want and get him in”, you realise you are hearing opinions borne out of ignorance, frustration, and a short attention span.

The club obviously want top players, and have shown they are willing to spend huge amounts of money for players they want. What we’ve seen is an overhaul of how we identify and screen potential signings, and as a result our purchases since we brought in Ole, have been excellent. I chose to put my faith in that, and understand it may take time to get these deals done. Get the right player, at a financially prudent price. That’s the managements mandate, and I’m confident they’ll do that. If we don’t sign Sancho it’s because we can’t afford the fee. Given the Covid crisis, there is no shame in that.

It’s probably akin to telling the Hulk to “just calm down”, but what people here need is some patience and a level head.
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Finally someone who understands that transfers are not just the club opening an imaginary wallet to spend. These are large capital investments for a major business. Would we be mocking companies in other industries for doing due dilligence, negotiating term sheets, assessing interest risks and all the legal and financial work that needs to be done for all parties - not just the business but its lawyers, lenders, insurers - to be on the same page? This is especially tedious and important when both future cash flow and macro environment are highly uncertain.
 
simonhch said:
With the minor caveat that you don’t know if that’s within our financial capabilities. Closing 100m+ deals is a major undertaking with huge ramifications. There’s a ton of due diligence, moving parts and financial analysis to be done. Especially with regard to the stance of the selling club, their response times, and the structure, timing and weighting of the payments. Before we even get into agents and intermediary fees, which apparently Dortmund are insisting on using.

I swear that the depth of most business understanding on here comes from Football Manager. I also guarantee that Woodward and Judge are more intelligent, and better operators than almost anyone on the Caf. Following Caf logic the club would’ve been bankrupt years ago.

People spend all this time criticising people for the job they are doing, without having any understanding of what their job entails, and the considerations required. I am CEO of a small company, valued at around 22M, and even at that size I can tell you how complex dealing making, financial forecasting, and operations are. For a multi billion pound business, it reaches a level of complexity that is so far beyond most people. We have so many experts on here who have not even a rudimentary understanding of business. My favourite lineI see parroted over and over is the classic “Why are we haggling over a few million?”, like it isn’t a huge amount of money.

When you hear statements like that, or “just pay what they want and get him in”, you realise you are hearing opinions borne out of ignorance, frustration, and a short attention span.

The club obviously want top players, and have shown they are willing to spend huge amounts of money for players they want. What we’ve seen is an overhaul of how we identify and screen potential signings, and as a result our purchases since we brought in Ole, have been excellent. I chose to put my faith in that, and understand it may take time to get these deals done. Get the right player, at a financially prudent price. That’s the managements mandate, and I’m confident they’ll do that. If we don’t sign Sancho it’s because we can’t afford the fee. Given the Covid crisis, there is no shame in that.

It’s probably akin to telling the Hulk to “just calm down”, but what people here need is some patience and a level head.
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This. The buy at any cost, get rid at any price mentality of many on here would have us bankrupt in no time.
 
Sassy Colin said:
We finished 3rd last time I looked :confused:
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That's because this was the "need to get back to UCL" season.
Litch said:
No one has the monopoly of knowledge on these matters, just opinion no more no less. Every football club starting position is different and people seem to have amnesia about the success we have historically had for decades. This was naturally going to come to an end irrespective of how much you plan especially when the greatest manager in football leaves the club. You simply cannot replace that easily or compare other clubs that haven't had that level of success under the same manager. You realise Liverpool who dominated the league took 30 years to win the Prem. Do you think they thought it would take this long?

Also you seem to think we are the only horse in the race? We have no god given right to continue to be successful and irrespective of how you plan, there will be others that will prove to be better. Unfortunately some fans were born into the success of the club and know nothing other than that. Brendon Rogers got the sack, there was no transition. Are you suggesting that the graveyard of managers at city was some kind of plan? The average of prem is based on failure not success. This proves the difficulty of the task in hand and something that we didn't have to even consider for two decades. You don't resolve that matter overnight and it will continue to be a painful process, the same the other big clubs have and still enduring now.

Hindsight we as fans have the benefit of as it's an exact science. Did SAF in anyway reflect the managers before him, based on your thinking we should have employed someone that was more akin to Big Rom? Funny enough Alex still got a tune out of the previous managers players whilst adding his own players and playing style. Patience rather than knee jerk responses because we are still trying to find a solution post SAF. Ole might be the best manager since but it will take time more than it will take money.
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We are one of the biggest clubs in the world, in supporters, structure and value.
Just because we weren't that big of a deal in the 70s and 80s it's not an excuse to be dogshit right now.
If there was a ratio to measure how much it's expected of a club, and how much it actually achieved, we'd probably be one of the worst clubs in the world in the last 7 years, behind only the Milan clubs and maybe Arsenal.
 
Chairman Steve said:
I'll start to be concerned if nothings happened after two weeks from now. I'd like to think as soon as this Sancho business is sorted, the rest of it is more straightforward and won't be as protracted.

I'm hoping we can get three players altogether. We shouldn't go apeshit like Chelsea are doing who are only doing it because they have a serious case of transfer blueballs after getting banned, and good luck to them trying to get 5-6 new players integrated into their team at once and managing to get good results.
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Would be ecstatic with three players provided they are Sancho, CB and AM ideally Grealish but looks impossible
 
Stretender said:
But that's the point. Sancho deal is independent of other areas we desperately need to address. Its clear as day that central defence is a problem. Where is the central defender. No I don't mean Tuanzebe who is not proven. I mean an experienced good defender. Lindelof has proven to be a pointless defender. Why are United not concluding deals for other targets?
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Because any other deals are dependent on player sales and you get the distinct impression we are having major problems shifting the deadwood
 
I wish we would stop chasing Sancho and go after 3 solid players that would help to atleast solidiy top 4 again. VDB , Telles , Ismail Sarr could be got for combined 100m and would represent better value in today's climate. Our out goings will offset most of this too. i wish we wise up one time as we are really in need of strength in depth.
 
kouroux said:
Why though ? What's the point of doing this ?
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Because I am fed up of seeing this once great club do diddly squat in this window whilst Chelsea splash out in style.

The thing that really gets to me is that these execs at other big clubs rightly see our board as a joke and we know who to blame for that.
 
ash_86 said:
I wish we would stop chasing Sancho and go after 3 solid players that would help to atleast solidiy top 4 again. VDB , Telles , Ismail Sarr could be got for combined 100m and would represent better value in today's climate. Our out goings will offset most of this too. i wish we wise up one time as we are really in need of strength in depth.
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We need to be signing players who have that ability to bench the likes of Lindelof, Matic & give Mason/Bruno/Pogba a rest as well
 
Either fork out for Sancho or figure out where the team is going to invest the money you had allocated for him. I'll never give up on cheering for the team, I'm too attached, I'd follow us to the championship or League One. But, if they don't show some level of ambition this window, I'll find it hard to continue having to pay for a subscription service to stream every game because the EPL sold it (when I could probably easily pirate it) and it is no longer on cable (DAZN) because the EPL rather cash in on this market (Canada) and not make it easily accessable, paying for club membership, and buying a new jersey which I was thinking of doing this year (try to buy one every 2 to 3 years). Look, I know I'm nothing in the scope of Manchester United, but if they don't think because of Covid they can or should invest in improving the team, I find it hard to justify those extra expenses during these times too.
 
croadyman said:
We need to be signing players who have that ability to bench the likes of Lindelof, Matic & give Mason/Bruno/Pogba a rest as well
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Sarr <-> Greenwood
Bruno <-> VDB
for two pivots we can still get away from picking two out of current 4 - Scott, Fred, Pogba, Matic

What i'm saying is we need the above signings as a minimum. If we get more i'd not say no.
 
This club prefer to pay ridiculous fees to avoid competing for the player's signature and when we do compete for a player's signature (ex Bellingham, Haaland etc) we lose out. Meanwhile our CEO had admitted giving contract extensions to players the club doesn't want to keep simply because we would find it hard to replace them. We give squad players ridiculous salaries that makes it impossible for us to get rid off, contract negotiations only start few months before the player's contracts end which tend to test the player's patience and we struggle to sign more then 3 players a year.

Former managers had complained about it (Moyes, LVG and Mourinho) and former scouts had shown their frustration as well. That's what happens when business completely dominate a football team. I mean look at our board of directors. There's as many football people in it then at its counterparts at Goldman Sachs
 
simonhch said:
With the minor caveat that you don’t know if that’s within our financial capabilities. Closing 100m+ deals is a major undertaking with huge ramifications. There’s a ton of due diligence, moving parts and financial analysis to be done. Especially with regard to the stance of the selling club, their response times, and the structure, timing and weighting of the payments. Before we even get into agents and intermediary fees, which apparently Dortmund are insisting on using.

I swear that the depth of most business understanding on here comes from Football Manager. I also guarantee that Woodward and Judge are more intelligent, and better operators than almost anyone on the Caf. Following Caf logic the club would’ve been bankrupt years ago.

People spend all this time criticising people for the job they are doing, without having any understanding of what their job entails, and the considerations required. I am CEO of a small company, valued at around 22M, and even at that size I can tell you how complex dealing making, financial forecasting, and operations are. For a multi billion pound business, it reaches a level of complexity that is so far beyond most people. We have so many experts on here who have not even a rudimentary understanding of business. My favourite lineI see parroted over and over is the classic “Why are we haggling over a few million?”, like it isn’t a huge amount of money.

When you hear statements like that, or “just pay what they want and get him in”, you realise you are hearing opinions borne out of ignorance, frustration, and a short attention span.

The club obviously want top players, and have shown they are willing to spend huge amounts of money for players they want. What we’ve seen is an overhaul of how we identify and screen potential signings, and as a result our purchases since we brought in Ole, have been excellent. I chose to put my faith in that, and understand it may take time to get these deals done. Get the right player, at a financially prudent price. That’s the managements mandate, and I’m confident they’ll do that. If we don’t sign Sancho it’s because we can’t afford the fee. Given the Covid crisis, there is no shame in that.

It’s probably akin to telling the Hulk to “just calm down”, but what people here need is some patience and a level head.
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agreed, closing a huge transfer deal for a club probably only really compares to the decision to purchase a house for most people if they really wanted an analogy. even relatively speaking such a transaction involves a lot of moving parts after a price has been agreed.
 
It shows once more we dont have the right setup nor the right people. There is a reason Bayern is so successful
 
There are literally zero rumours right now. All that means is that the club is controlling the leaks, not that we arent working on signing players (as that's highly unlikely with the number of players we had expressed a minor/major interest in).

And I don't mind us doing business like this honestly. As far as our fans are concerned, we'd abuse the club however we carry out the business.
 
Godfather said:
Difference is, Chelsea almost beat us to 3rd place and are now doing very well in the market. Arse also spent money. If we do feck all we will again struggle to get top 4 which can't be our ambition season in season out. We should progress not regress. It feels the same as it was With mourinhos second season when he was hung dry.
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In fairness, Chelsea didn’t almost beat us to third place. They were in the box seat and we overhauled them.
 
If people are wondering how Chelsea are able to conduct their transfer activity, let's take a look at their cash flows.
Pwz6PEW.png

Summary: at 30 June 2019, they had 36.6 million Pounds in the bank. They only had that much at the end after Abramovich "lended" them 291.2 million Pounds. In contrast, we had 307.6 million Pounds, all from the club's own operations.

Whilst Chelsea had a transfer ban that summer, we spent quite a bit on players that summer and in the winter, and it showed in our cash flows as of 31 March 2020 (90.25 million Pounds). Both Chelsea and United will miss out on much of the matchday and broadcasting revenue; the difference, however, is that Chelsea will still have Abramovich bankrolling them. Add in the transfer, and you can imagine something like 200 million pounds (an in-between guess based on the 2018 and 2019 "borrowings".

In contrast, we'll have to deal with 90 million pounds + whatever little money we'll get. Given that we have more to strengthen than just the right wing, I can see why the club would be careful with planning out our summer activity. It also wouldn't surprise me if we're waiting for sales in order to raise some more cash for purchases. Letting go of Sanchez would help, of course, but we'll see how far that can take us.

Side note: Chelsea had a loss as of 30 June 2019, but they were within FFP limits.
 
Getting a CB, Grealish and Sancho would be the dream window as it would mean the bench would be so much stronger than what it has been. As it stands our best 11 is pretty good. But our bench options are atrocious and not of the quality to change a game. Cup games are a problem also as we are forced to overplay our best players.

With those 3 positions being strengthened this window, I think we would be in a good place and closer to where we need to be.

It is imperative that we do what is needed now and not spread it over the next 3 windows. I am basing this on Liverpool and City being miles ahead already and Chelsea going mad with their rebuild. Arteta will have Arsenal doing better and Spurs/Wolves being up there too. We could end up struggling for top 4 again if we are not careful. That is why there has been a 'meltdown' over Chelsea's dealings.
 
Suvvernmanc said:
Getting a CB, Grealish and Sancho would be the dream window as it would mean the bench would be so much stronger than what it has been. As it stands our best 11 is pretty good. But our bench options are atrocious and not of the quality to change a game. Cup games are a problem also as we are forced to overplay our best players.

With those 3 positions being strengthened this window, I think we would be in a good place and closer to where we need to be.

It is imperative that we do what is needed now and not spread it over the next 3 windows. I am basing this on Liverpool and City being miles ahead already and Chelsea going mad with their rebuild. Arteta will have Arsenal doing better and Spurs/Wolves being up there too. We could end up struggling for top 4 again if we are not careful. That is why there has been a 'meltdown' over Chelsea's dealings.
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this
 
Newcastle have signed someone now haven't they?

So does that just leave Man United, Wolves and Leicester who are sitting on their hands?
 
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