missed itWorld Cup All-Time All-Stars Final: Team Annah vs Team Theon+Snow+Crappy
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missed itI mentioned the pasue and orchestration from Maradona is lacking and that it is more a Socrates than a Zico trait. The problem though with Socrates (other than not being anywhere close to peak Maradona) is holding off pesky marking, changes of pace, etc. In such a high intensity game he may just suddenly not give a feck any more and have a poor game.
I do think that type of player would be more suited than Zico though. In fact, I'm wondering whether Baggio wasn't the better option, at least on a standalone individual basis.
Actually, I'm sure Baggio would be having a better game than Zico here. Too much wanting to get into the box and scoring across the front three. I could imagine Baggio working the build up with Eusebio and exploiting other options much better.
Agree with Boniek, but why Andrade vs Alberto? From this match perspective, I think the 4-2-2-2 should effectively counter Annah's set up, esp with inside forwards and not actual wide players in the team sheets.
I am going to work now lads, cheers all the voters and the people commenting. Not sure if I will be able to post or not, otherwise I am sure some neutrals will be able to answer stuff for me.
OK, I didn't expect you to copy that on here!Anyhow, the Andrade thing is because his WC peak would have suited the Junior role (on the right) best. Tucks into midfield to cover Falcao, Falcao pushes forward, Zico breaks into the box, and Boniek is the one providing width instead of CA/Andrade. That would be a 4-2-2-2 which switches to 2-2-2-4 like Brazil 82 would, otherwise it's just a random 4-2-2-2 with two attacking fullbacks and not letting Falcao and Zico play at their very best.
Of course, I would much sooner have Cafú on the right, Junior on the left and both Falcao and Zico (and Socrates and Beckenbauer) on their favoured sides. That's why I say Carlos wasn't a great pick for Brazil 82, because the attacking fullback should be on the right.
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I can't believe this scoreline .
.That's my main problem with those 5 man defenses, always has been. I already wrote a few times, that you don't need that numerical advantage and at a certain point, more numbers don't have an advantage anymore and if you miss the players somewhere else, it becomes a disadvantage. Annah made a great point in the beginning when he said, the best way to counter a team with 3 centerbacks is to play only one striker and gain the advantage everywhere else and he's doing that here while Theon/Crappy don't react to it at all. In the end you still have a lot of defenders of course, but they will be a step to late often enough, when they have to react to several different attacking players running at them with and without the ball all the time.
I actually expected Kohler to man-mark Pele here and have the DMs help out on the wings, because they can interfere early enough to prevent what Anto described as the best way to goal.
There's no way Figueroa stepping out of defense can prevent that from happening without a midfielder helping out on the wing early, so you need one of the 3 centerbacks more often than not in DM here (Figueroa?) or one of them doing a man-marking job on Pele (Kohler?), so that one of Beckenbauer or Falcao can help out wide. Zico tracking Matthäus when he moves forward would be helpful as well. Would it work? In my opinion better, but still not good enough to have a chance of winning the game.
It was always going to be a nightmare to defend Annah in the final third, so I don't think Theon could have done anything to win the game with his team here. Annah's team grew on me during my game against him, because the more I thought about how I could defend against him, the more I came up with solutions for him to destroy me. And one defender more in the box doesn't solve any of the problems.
Bloody hell, 16-4.
Was hoping for a tighter match and maybe another penalty shoot out!
Was hoping for a tighter match and maybe another penalty shoot out!
Congrats Annah, well done.
Winging it with Vicente-Stam up to the final. Jammy feck
Winging it with Vicente-Stam up to the final. Jammy feck
Congrats, Annah!
Or he could have his third midfielder contributing more defensively than Zico, do as good a job as he can muster on Pelé and free up the CMs to support the flanks if needs be. You know, like in the Argie 3-5-2 with Maradona...
Congrats to Annah - well deserved win!
The score looks ugly - so I feel it's only fair to say that there wasn't that much between the sides.
The score looks ugly - so I feel it's only fair to say that there wasn't that much between the sides.
GREATEST HOWLER IN REDCAFE DRAFTING HISTORY?
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The magic draft formula: Build a 3-5-2, win difficult games on the strengths of its defence, then have the chance to play the best ever in the formation that made him best ever... and pick Eusebio.
Different game :POr he could have his third midfielder contributing more defensively than Zico, do as good a job as he can muster on Pelé and free up the CMs to support the flanks if needs be. You know, like in the Argie 3-5-2 with Maradona...
In fact, if Kohler was such a big deal (it wasn't) the formation above with Eusebio and Kohler would have been better as well.
Well done Annah. You've done alright for someone that was predicted to be easily beaten in the first round!
Congrats Annah!
GREATEST HOWLER IN REDCAFE DRAFTING HISTORY?The magic draft formula: Build a 3-5-2, win difficult games on the strengths of its defence, then have the chance to play the best ever in the formation that made him best ever... and pick Eusebio.
After all the hammering on 3 defenders vs 1 attacker, sticking to the same formation
Brilliant draft, Annah. You took a risk earlier when you ignored your centerbacks and it paid off, that side in the final was basically unbeatable and it had a nice identity with lots of Brazilian flair in attack. Great job.
. But yeah, you got your competitive final.
Neeskens is still pissed at you for your reason to vote against me, btw(...)
He would be the stronger side going into the final and I'd rather see a competitive final.
. But yeah, you got your competitive final.Congrats Annah! Missed the voting cut off and in any case I was indecisive as ever. Could easily have seen Theon/Crappy's team getting some joy on the counter-attack, but the arguments in favour of Annah's awesome attacking set-up and ability to win the possession battle have been persuasive too.
After all the hammering on 3 defenders vs 1 attacker, sticking to the same formation
The hammering related to possession though. The moment you accept it's a soak and hit on the break setup Zico becomes quite obviously redundant relative to having a man on Pelé, allowing the other CMs to support the flanks, and having the right men upfront. Maradona can quickly counter or hold up the ball and allow others to join him in the attacking phase, Eusebio would be a more straightforward counter player.
In fact, had Theon not picked Carlos Alberto he could have played Eusebio AND Maradona as the two and have both options handy with the best possible personnel to execute them
It really all boils down to understanding what your system is about and picking the right men for it, no sacred cows allowed.
Neeskens is still pissed at you for your reason to vote against me, btw
Well, the idea was Annah would be more competitive
I had no hand in picking his opponent, let alone his reinforcements!Thanks everybody for voting and posting through-out the draft. Of course like always there is a lot of luck in these drafts. I think there are plenty of deserving winners who slipped on the finish line in some matches who otherwise may just as well have won it all.
Annah VS Fergus'son 10-10[Penalty Draw - Annah through on more manager votes]Fergus was considered pretty much the favorite of the entire draft after brilliant picking, couldn't have been much better if he decided for us what we'd all pick.
Unfortunately we had to reschedule to a time where we didn't have very much time neither of us. He had Falcao and Matthäus in the first round and an impeccable defense. Among the last picks he picked up Rummenigge as his 10th pick and I thought he'd be impossible to beat - but then he probably suffered from trying to find a RW - he had to place Rummenigge out wide and push in Klinsmann.
I realized that his decision to do that would work in my favour a lot considering Rivelino was a very narrow player naturally and Rummenigge played severely injured for most of the tournament - so an otherwise great winger didn't actually play the winger role one could expect in his WC.
This meant I could play a very narrow defense, which always makes it incredibly tough to break down no matter who you got playing there. His only hope was to send Nilton Santos bombing up the field but I had picked Stoichkov/Leonidas/Ronaldinho knowing they can be swapped around - Stoichkov is the perfect winger to abuse his work-rate, stamina and explosive pace against just full-backs.
Suddenly all that was left was his central offense which was incredibly intricate and had great passers. I think banging on about how having 4 players who won't help very much in the defense probably lead to me edging the managerial votes.
Annah VS Cal 15-6With four picks I managed to pick up Matthäus, Bobby Charlton, Facchetti and Cafu. This draft-round won me the game considering only Balu and Antohan had any wingers or wide players. I got extremely lucky, I had planned for something much much worse.
Facchetti-Ronaldinho
Cafu-Stoichkov
Facing pretty much no resistance apart from a wing-back or full-back. I think I was the only one picking up 4 players who skill-wise would be great in a final. So I wasn't as worried about my CB's as I guess most others. I knew that unless I played Balu or Antohan, Facchetti and Cafu would play so tight that they'd increase the defensive abilities by an awful lot.
I also had the best midfield by quite a margin at this point joint with Theon. Matthäus-Didi-Charlton-Stoichkov were all great defensively so the CB's was never much of an issue for me knowing how I will play.
Annah VS Balu 11-8
This match was the one I wanted the least and the most, by far the most difficult both tactically and discussion wise but still a great challenge.
Balu benched his 4th round pick and considering my fourth round pick was Cafu, I think that swayed this even game. I felt this match was extremely close tactically, he pulled off a masterstroke sending Haan down to do his Ajax role or the non-peaking '78 role of stepping down from midfield to defense when in possession - to allow his wing-backs to push up with more cover.
I think I did good pointing out that Cruyff was a false 9 and again it meant if he wanted to attack centrally my full-backs would play a big part in that too.
So tactically pretty even and I think I won simply because Matthäus-Didi-Pele is final worthy players in each position and Davids-Haan-Neeskens just wasn't equally good individually.
Major mistake in the tournament was picking Iniesta second and not making sure I had more freedom from the restrictions in latter rounds. Couldn't play Charlton in the final which is a bit daft.
Annah VS Fergus'son 10-10[Penalty Draw - Annah through on more manager votes]Fergus was considered pretty much the favorite of the entire draft after brilliant picking, couldn't have been much better if he decided for us what we'd all pick.
Unfortunately we had to reschedule to a time where we didn't have very much time neither of us. He had Falcao and Matthäus in the first round and an impeccable defense. Among the last picks he picked up Rummenigge as his 10th pick and I thought he'd be impossible to beat - but then he probably suffered from trying to find a RW - he had to place Rummenigge out wide and push in Klinsmann.
I realized that his decision to do that would work in my favour a lot considering Rivelino was a very narrow player naturally and Rummenigge played severely injured for most of the tournament - so an otherwise great winger didn't actually play the winger role one could expect in his WC.
This meant I could play a very narrow defense, which always makes it incredibly tough to break down no matter who you got playing there. His only hope was to send Nilton Santos bombing up the field but I had picked Stoichkov/Leonidas/Ronaldinho knowing they can be swapped around - Stoichkov is the perfect winger to abuse his work-rate, stamina and explosive pace against just full-backs.
Suddenly all that was left was his central offense which was incredibly intricate and had great passers. I think banging on about how having 4 players who won't help very much in the defense probably lead to me edging the managerial votes.
Annah VS Cal 15-6With four picks I managed to pick up Matthäus, Bobby Charlton, Facchetti and Cafu. This draft-round won me the game considering only Balu and Antohan had any wingers or wide players. I got extremely lucky, I had planned for something much much worse.
Facchetti-Ronaldinho
Cafu-Stoichkov
Facing pretty much no resistance apart from a wing-back or full-back. I think I was the only one picking up 4 players who skill-wise would be great in a final. So I wasn't as worried about my CB's as I guess most others. I knew that unless I played Balu or Antohan, Facchetti and Cafu would play so tight that they'd increase the defensive abilities by an awful lot.
I also had the best midfield by quite a margin at this point joint with Theon. Matthäus-Didi-Charlton-Stoichkov were all great defensively so the CB's was never much of an issue for me knowing how I will play.
Annah VS Balu 11-8
This match was the one I wanted the least and the most, by far the most difficult both tactically and discussion wise but still a great challenge.
Balu benched his 4th round pick and considering my fourth round pick was Cafu, I think that swayed this even game. I felt this match was extremely close tactically, he pulled off a masterstroke sending Haan down to do his Ajax role or the non-peaking '78 role of stepping down from midfield to defense when in possession - to allow his wing-backs to push up with more cover.
I think I did good pointing out that Cruyff was a false 9 and again it meant if he wanted to attack centrally my full-backs would play a big part in that too.
So tactically pretty even and I think I won simply because Matthäus-Didi-Pele is final worthy players in each position and Davids-Haan-Neeskens just wasn't equally good individually.
Major mistake in the tournament was picking Iniesta second and not making sure I had more freedom from the restrictions in latter rounds. Couldn't play Charlton in the final which is a bit daft.
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Those four picks were indeed brilliant, I was actually shocked you could get away with it. Personnel-wise, having a theme really put anyone going for a theme on the backfoot as you can't just pick quality but very very specific players.
Yeah I didn't at all expect it. But like you said in a theme you need not just a right-back, but a right-back who plays in a particular style. It was a tad bit hard on the people with themes this draft. I didn't dare doing it myself I went for having players who can play in plenty positions instead.
But Balu, Antohan did a great job following themes and Crappy had a great team too with partnerships.
Congrats annah, as organiser I hereby proclaim you the winner of the world cup all time all stars tournament
Congrats annah, as organiser I hereby proclaim you the winner of the world cup all time all stars tournament
Cheers mate! Thanks for all the time you put in to organizing the entire thing and leading it. You've been a brilliant admin to say the least.