Workrate

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
liking to defend is not requirement for pressing. Collective strategy is. Under a tactical pressing coach a team of Ozil's could press another team mercilessly out of possession easily
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DeepSpace said:
You're right, a single player's actions (be it lazy defending, or a honest misjudging of the situation) could undo a good press. However, I'd imagine that good coaches have contingencies planned for these kinds of situations. Of course, if a player is half arsed all the time, then that's insubordination in my book and he should be out of the team regardless - this has nothing to do with liking to defend or not. They just need to follow instructions
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A team of Ozil's could do a lot of things, what they will do is another matter. I agree coaching is paramount, but it falls apart pretty quickly when you have a lot of insubordinate, difficult to motivate players. Or older, less mobile players like Barcelona (who granted, could try harder). Personally i think you can and should have 11 players who can and are willing to work their balls off, whatever their ability. We dont have that atm and attempts to create a high pressing team out of what we have is a tall order imo.
We should be moving in that direction.
 
Minimalist said:
What is your argument? We’re not reading all those links - what’s your summary?

If you’re trying to suggest we don’t have fitness issues I have to laugh.
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I was about to say pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it.
You must have fitter fingers.
 
All other English teams have warriors running their socks off in big games while our heavy paid clowns can't bring themselves to press a little against the team at the bottom of the league table.

Fecking crap.
 
el3mel said:
All other English teams have warriors running their socks off in big games while our heavy paid clowns can't bring themselves to press a little against the team at the bottom of the league table.

Fecking crap.
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Its so depressing...
Ole should really sell all these clowns, no matter who it is.

And its attitude, desires and effort that beat total football after all...
 
el3mel said:
All other English teams have warriors running their socks off in big games while our heavy paid clowns can't bring themselves to press a little against the team at the bottom of the league table.

Fecking crap.
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We have unfit and lazy players or players who have just lost the engine.
 
Treble said:
Ajax ran 118 km, Spurs 115.
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Spurs had more possession. Both teams worked their socks off. Spurs made Ajax do more work as they chased the ball all second half. It was immense as a spectacle. Wonder what the running stats were last night? If I was a Barca fan I’m sure I’d be disgusted with theirs.
 
Rory 7 said:
Spurs had more possession. Both teams worked their socks off. Spurs made Ajax do more work as they chased the ball all second half. It was immense as a spectacle. Wonder what the running stats were last night? If I was a Barca fan I’m sure I’d be disgusted with theirs.
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Yeah, I agree. My point was that both teams ran a lot, not only Ajax.
 
caid said:
A team of Ozil's could do a lot of things, what they will do is another matter. I agree coaching is paramount, but it falls apart pretty quickly when you have a lot of insubordinate, difficult to motivate players. Or older, less mobile players like Barcelona (who granted, could try harder). Personally i think you can and should have 11 players who can and are willing to work their balls off, whatever their ability. We dont have that atm and attempts to create a high pressing team out of what we have is a tall order imo.
We should be moving in that direction.
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We don't fail to press because we lack dynamic players, nor due to having difficult characters. We are shit at it rather simply because we DONT train it tactically.
We employ school boy pressing. Just running after the ball, simply hoping to win the ball by sheer numbers and work rate. That is why we have this nonsense of one guy 'leading the press'. We never close up passing lanes. Never form groups with which to press with. Make no real effort to make it easier to win second balls how we set up. Never have an urgency with how we hunt for the ball after we lose it. Often preffering to relying on shape rather than proactive tact.

People need to remember Barca and spain dominated the world for half a decade employing snails like Xabi Alonso, Xavi and Busquets with OK paced men like Iniesta. Playing some of the best high press football of all time. They never ever relied on athleticism. They instead relied on tactics and fitness.

That is what I'm hoping Ole and company will drum into our team next season. From pre season and beyond
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
We don't fail to press because we lack dynamic players, nor due to having difficult characters. We are shit at it rather simply because we DONT train it tactically.
We employ school boy pressing. Just running after the ball, simply hoping to win the ball by sheer numbers and work rate. That is why we have this nonsense of one guy 'leading the press'. We never close up passing lanes. Never form groups with which to press with. Make no real effort to make it easier to win second balls how we set up. Never have an urgency with how we hunt for the ball after we lose it. Often preffering to relying on shape rather than proactive tact.

People need to remember Barca and spain dominated the world for half a decade employing snails like Xabi Alonso, Xavi and Busquets with OK paced men like Iniesta. Playing some of the best high press football of all time. They never ever relied on athleticism. They instead relied on tactics and fitness.

That is what I'm hoping Ole and company will drum into our team next season. From pre season and beyond
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Fantastic post, I completely agree.
 
Its embarassing whatever way you look at it. The running stats from Oles first few months werent anything crazy. They were exactly what you expect at a big club. Nothing unsustainable about it, yet they dropped like flies and reverted to type after that. That's why I have a hard time blaming Ole too much.
 
United ran out 4-0 winners against old rivals Chelsea in the first competitive match of 2019/20 and while the margin of victory was perhaps a little harsh on the Blues, who registered more possession and shots, the Reds were still worthy victors on the day, thanks to some hard work and effective finishing.

Interestingly, we can confirm that Opta data shows United covered 107.89 kilometres throughout the much-anticipated match, topping Chelsea's 106.63 kilometres.
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https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...man-united-covered-more-distance-than-chelsea
 
M Bison said:
Be interesting to see that broken down by player, is that anywhere?
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Haven't seen anywhere. Usually in PL site player comparison, it is mentioned but its not updated for this season.
 
lysglimt said:
To calculate if the distance we run is correct ?
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Any excuse to post this image :lol:

essiencalc.jpg
 
I guess I should address this here rather than the Ole thread.

Where can I find stats on our games in the league so far? Distance covered, sprints, etc.?
 
Bastian said:
I guess I should address this here rather than the Ole thread.

Where can I find stats on our games in the league so far? Distance covered, sprints, etc.?
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Im also very curious. Seems like when our best players dont play (martial/pogba) we revert back to sitting deep and not trying to attack.
 
I imagine it'd be higher, but not like top 4. There have been games where we've definitely worked harder, it's just lacking the finishing touches and quality in the final third.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
We don't fail to press because we lack dynamic players, nor due to having difficult characters. We are shit at it rather simply because we DONT train it tactically.
We employ school boy pressing. Just running after the ball, simply hoping to win the ball by sheer numbers and work rate. That is why we have this nonsense of one guy 'leading the press'. We never close up passing lanes. Never form groups with which to press with. Make no real effort to make it easier to win second balls how we set up. Never have an urgency with how we hunt for the ball after we lose it. Often preffering to relying on shape rather than proactive tact.

People need to remember Barca and spain dominated the world for half a decade employing snails like Xabi Alonso, Xavi and Busquets with OK paced men like Iniesta. Playing some of the best high press football of all time. They never ever relied on athleticism. They instead relied on tactics and fitness.

That is what I'm hoping Ole and company will drum into our team next season. From pre season and beyond
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Bingo

Pressing is about predicting/influencing where the opponent will pass the ball and then, once the ball is in those areas, cutting of passing lanes to force errors or a long ball. Ole has no history of this, nor do any of our coaches, so I don't see how he's going to implement without it being reliant on just watching other teams and trying to work out how they do it.

We need more direction, if the board have decided that this style is what they want - there are plenty of mangers out there who are known for this type of philosophy and who should have been approached. The fact Ole knows the club is detrimental because it means his go-to ideas are just counter attacking, hard work and pacey players which is the football of a decade ago.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Bingo

Pressing is about predicting/influencing where the opponent will pass the ball and then, once the ball is in those areas, cutting of passing lanes to force errors or a long ball. Ole has no history of this, nor do any of our coaches, so I don't see how he's going to implement without it being reliant on just watching other teams and trying to work out how they do it.

We need more direction, if the board have decided that this style is what they want - there are plenty of mangers out there who are known for this type of philosophy and who should have been approached. The fact Ole knows the club is detrimental because it means his go-to ideas are just counter attacking, hard work and pacey players which is the football of a decade ago.
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This is pretty basic stuff and I’m amazed that we haven’t progressed in this area at all and instead relying on running around like headless chickens.
 
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