It's crazy that he also built Lucid and BYD when he already had Tesla.
Working on multiple transfers at a time
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
It’s irrelevant until we start closing bids. All we have is various social media mouthpieces saying we did this or that.
Why are these current bids any less ‘prepared’ than a bid in the past?
I’m always wary of assuming this was ever the case, we were likely in touch with loads of players and agents and working on deals, I don’t think we ever worked on ‘a deal at a time’. What we did, though, was seemingly go for a very random and scattergun approach which then often left us without bargaining power and pushing through late deals by throwing money at the problem.
With what we’re doing now, much of it I think is being pushed to the media by Ineos, making it crystal clear we are going to sign a CB and are making headway with good options. I think the current plan is trying to pressure Everton to sell for about £55m with Braithwaite and having De Ligt as backup for a cheaper fee. I suspect we know Yoro likely wants to wait for Real but we pushing that news to help us.
With what we’re doing now, much of it I think is being pushed to the media by Ineos, making it crystal clear we are going to sign a CB and are making headway with good options. I think the current plan is trying to pressure Everton to sell for about £55m with Braithwaite and having De Ligt as backup for a cheaper fee. I suspect we know Yoro likely wants to wait for Real but we pushing that news to help us.
I think @Adnan answered this, even if the club officials worked on multiple deals at one time, they still needed to get the okay from Glazer to move forward, now we've Ratcliffe taking over the football management out of the Glazer's hands, we should be able to do it faster since Ashworth is now tasked with managing the football operations and he would not need to get approval to finalize a deal since he will know what's required of him and what limits he can operate within.
I mean if you want to just refuse to ever believe any reporters then sure I guess, but if that's the case you're better off just waiting to crack open a nice old school news paper to see the headline of who we signed.I don't think it has to be that cynical personally
That's not what I said. My point was in the past we often seemingly waited weeks in between bidding for players, dragging on negotiations far past what they needed to go and in many cases missing out entirely even after doing so.
There is no evidence that none of that will not be the case this summer either. We’ve signed nobody, and have one player in particular who we have made two bids over a few weeks for, and are rumoured to be ‘preparing a third bid’, which I imagine will be below the 70m asking price and no guarantee we will get the player after a long pursuit.
My own point is, people seem to be riding a crest of a wave and positivity at the moment, and in previous years, they were riding a wave of negativity. As a result, the same things look different when held under different lights.
I wouldn't say I'm particularly "positive" right now, but I'm also not devoid of memory and this summer just factually (if we actually want to accept the numerous reports from decent sources) seems far more active/proactive on a day to day basis than previous years under old regimes. If you want to play the "we haven't signed anyone yet nothing's changed" card that's fine as you're correct as of now. Sure we are pursuing Branthwaite, but we also have agreed a fee with Lille and are tempting Yoro as well as finalizing a fee with Bayern to pull the trigger on De Ligt. If you can't see how that's different from past summers or don't want to think it is then we'll just disagree forever.
this was just a made up thing a bit like the Brexit FC thing that was going for a while
The point is, if we don’t sign those players, then the same narrative will be spun. We agreed a fee with De Jong (famously).
For a club that spends in and around 150m net every summer and brings in between 4-6 players quite often, we’ve obviously been ‘active’ in several summers. I still maintain that sentiment around our market activity is largely media driven.
Im not talking about narratives or what we end up spending. Obviously we spend heavily (especially recent summers considering lack of sales), but it’s a pretty easy observation for me personally that we are more proactive/decisive currently in who are are pursuing and how we are approaching each target. If you choose to believe that it’s all just media spin either way that’s fine, not going to be able to change your mind on that. And really who gives a feck either way in the end if we end up nailing our targets and get them in before season starts.
Is that enough evidence yet of things being different this time? @Rozay
Weirdo.
Keep sticking that head in the sand I guess
i remember that, it looked like amazing business at the time. Hindsight is a great thing i suppose.
Okay feck it, I’ll play.
Are you Twitterati all a bunch of excited teens or something? What is so ‘different’ about Manchester United signing a footballer? Has this not been done before? I, and a number of others, have already addressed this fallacy of ‘working on more than one deal at a time’ being some sort of new thing with evidence of it being a complete myth.
Next you will be telling me that it is apparently United tradition to sign our players on deadline day or something, and signing players early is ‘acting like a football club’. Do you want to go through all the players we have signed since Fergie has retired and count what percentage of them have done a pre-season with us?
Or seeing as you are the one throwing smilies around, why don’t YOU tell me what is so ‘different’ about us signing two early targets to when we signed Dalot and Fred early. Or when we signed Shaw and Herrera early (Shaw being announced the day after the season ended if I recall).
Our pursuit of Yoro over the last couple of weeks has been almost identical to that of Frenkie de Jong. Yet, due to INEOS and Ashworth excitement, people have decided to be rational this time. It’s actually been amusing reading the thread and seeing so many people saying ‘even if he doesn’t come I’m happy we’re competing’, or ‘yea, he’ll probably go to Madrid, who can blame him, at least we tried’. Picking and choosing, the same thing was a model of incompetence the other day.
United put a bid in for a footballer during a summer transfer window no less and it’s immediately ‘oooh look, structure’. And it’s me who has my head buried. How about you elaborate on your claims or go back to whatever you were doing this afternoon before you decided to bother me. All that matters is the players we bring in be successful. We were optimistic when we signed the other players too, then they were not so good and we claimed the club had no clue. By the same token, the ones we have signed this summer could be just as unsuccessful. Hopefully they are not, but if they are, I’d love for you to come back in a year and explain to me why it was somehow different this summer.
The way we're operating this summer is clearly much improved. We've got some ins and outs done early, and several other strong rumours both on the buying and selling front that suggest others could be close.
What remains to be seen is whether we actually sign the right players. We've had summers where we've been happy with the signings and then most of them flop. So I'm not going to assume we've made great signings until I see proof on the pitch.
The directors we've appointed have barely arrived through the door so I'm not sure how much time we've had overhaul our recruitment process, and assess what's been wrong with our scouting the last 11 years. It remains to be seen but I'm happy we're getting deals over the line quicker.
What remains to be seen is whether we actually sign the right players. We've had summers where we've been happy with the signings and then most of them flop. So I'm not going to assume we've made great signings until I see proof on the pitch.
The directors we've appointed have barely arrived through the door so I'm not sure how much time we've had overhaul our recruitment process, and assess what's been wrong with our scouting the last 11 years. It remains to be seen but I'm happy we're getting deals over the line quicker.
Tell them to slow down
Tell them to slow down
Enjoying this silly season so far, it’s so refreshing for all of us to see after years of incompetence and disappointment.
We’re moving quick and getting it done.
We’re moving quick and getting it done.
Grouchy one eh?
The initial debate was that we clearly were operating a bit differently compared to past summers under previous regimes, and largely dithered in incompetence even when we did sign and sell players (either from drawn out negotiations, struggling to walk away from deals, not able to land any decent fees for players we needed to move on, etc.) You're initial sticking point as of a week ago was that we hadn't actually signed anyone, would drag on Branthwaite negotiations just to meet Everton's price eventually, and that everything "different" about this summer has just been media driven. Well now a week has passed and we've quickly wrapped up a straightforward deal for another young striker as well as getting our top target on the market in Yoro before going on tour. I actually don't see the resemblence with De Jong at all, that's a pretty shit comparison considering he was already an established star at his "dream club" that we were trying to pry away, and did so until the last days of the window when it was clear he wouldn't be moved.
You keep wanting to move the fecking goalposts now though because apparently "all that matters is the players being successful" when that was never the debate or point of the thread/point of my discussion in the first place! No shit it matters that Yoro and everyone else are good? That's obvious?
But hey I'm glad you referenced 4 transfers from the past decade as evidence of us doing deals and moving efficiently in the market (laughably Fred being one of those considering our own manager didn't even want him at the time and the deal was hugely debated in here). If your only cause for changing your mind as to whether "things have changed" is just transfers working out then it's pointless anyways, as transfers never work out 100% of the time, which is why I said just keep your head in the sand I guess since the entire point of debate seemingly shifted for you.
It feels good to have a structure that works on multiple deals. I think even next year it will be even better, once everyone has been in place with a full year of scouting talents.
Sure, but for me it's always been more important to operate logically and make sure the process in who/how we targeted and acquired players was sound. You'll never get every transfer spot on (just check City's transfer dealings), but if the processes in place are sound you'll come out ahead more often than not and still be able to recoup some of the money from the failed ones.
They are shifting players out the back door as well. Over 50m recouped. Add Casemiro and Sancho and it could be 120m
Varane
Martial
Greenwood - 30m
Wan Bissaka - 15m
Alvaro Fernandez - 6m
Van De Beek - 500k
Varane
Martial
Greenwood - 30m
Wan Bissaka - 15m
Alvaro Fernandez - 6m
Van De Beek - 500k
The initial debate is actually in the thread title, it’s rather conspicuous. That point was of course a nonsense.
You saying we ‘largely dithered in incompetence’ are just words. You have no idea what you’re actually talking about, and these are all buzzwords regurgitated ultimately due to the fact that we were not winning enough football matches, which means that in this era of interneters, everyone feels qualified on how to runa multi-billion football club and conduct transfers. As I said a week ago, two identical things will be discussed differently after being held under different lights. We signed Berbatov on deadline day. Was that ‘incompetence’? People just talk shite because it’s easy to talk.
My initial ‘sticking point’ was nothing of the sort. My initial sticking point is that you’re talking rubbish and largely driven by internet sentiment, which appears to shape narrative and opinions. I challenged a specific point about how we are apparently moving so quickly now but pointing out, crucially, that we hadn’t even signed a player. That doesn’t mean that my position would be that ‘everything is different now’ should we go and sign a player. For that to be the case, surely we would have had to not manage to sign players early before. But alas, that of course is not the case, which means you/others are just talking without really thinking about what you’re saying. Would you consider us to be ‘dithering’ on Ugarte? We will probably still be active in August. Would you be complaining those players were not signed earlier? Or will you, like many others, choose to not have a problem with that this year, and instead choose to see positives because we have positive vibes now. All before we’ve seen whether there’s a difference on the pitch mind you.
It’s easy for you to see no resemblance to De Jong now (interestingly you didn’t say that a week ago) given we have convinced the player. The outcome was irrelevant. A week ago, we were trying to convince a player to come who seemingly would have preferred not to. As we did with De Jong. The fact that we actually got this one is further vindication that we absolutely should have been trying to convince De Jong too, because obviously, you might manage to do so! Nobody can tell me based on what I’ve read over the last few weeks, had it been Ratcliffe/Berrada and co pursuing De Jong they would have been labelled as incompetent. Negatively towards our previous execs led to the narrative. When you think about it, only an idiot would say it’s embarrassing for a club to try and convince a football player they would like to sign to join them. Because it isn’t, which we can see clearly now we have our cool new structure in place (for about two weeks).
And I’m not moving any goalposts. Ultimately, that’s all that matters. We did the same things before. This dissection of exactly how we negotiated or what date the signing was concluded is literally only relevant because the players were not successful. If Antony was the best forward in the league, any United fan would be a fool to be complaining two years later that the club was so clueless for signing him in August instead of July. By the same token, if the players we have signed relatively quickly this summer turn out to be failures, nobody would be lauding our operations in hindsight. And if they would do, then why are they not lauding the numerous quick deals we have done over the last decade now?
So again, how about you be specific and say how and why things are different this summer to the last 11, other than the feel good factor that clearly warms your heart.
You forgot Willy Kambwala - 10m
No one knows how the player will deliver but at the very least it seems we're chasing the right profiles.
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We have clearly been working on multiple deals at the same time to great effect already this window. Both ins and outs.
Let’s be honest, all top tier clubs should have their business done before the start of the season. Waiting until the 31st August and then panic buying Falcao, Fellani and Di Maria is United of old…
Seems some concrete big moves being attempted at the moment though we haveonly small links with the one I want who has already had bids from two clubs we arevery much involved with in termsof buying players and li ked withplayers they want, sodream scenario for me....
Xavi Simmons goes to Bayern - we dont need him
Joao Neves Goes to PSG - Not seen much of him at all,butmy initial impression is he goes for £70-80m (not the £59mbeingmentioned today) and he looks a real talent but maybea bit more of a better defensive version of Mainoo.
Also we DONT sign DeLigt or Ugarte to add money to there coffers. Think both are good players and decent value as well....but is Ugarte the first choice dm we crave and do we need to spend £40m as good (and young lets not forget) on a second choice cb?
Personally Istill think we an sign in these two positions for half the total fees and at similar levels in midfield espeially where there area number of very good Souh American midfielders...and that allows us for probably similar fees overall to sign the player I covet most andboth PSG and Bayern have already bid for...
Ugarte and De ligt £80-85m - Give us players to play cb and dm
or
Anselmio, Ezequiel Fernandez, DesireDoue £60-80m - give us players to play cb, dm, cm, lw, rw, am
The firs two are just examples, but I definately want a winger and personally unlike most probably, really thinkwe an approve at right back too and a starter,not a back up.
Xavi Simmons goes to Bayern - we dont need him
Joao Neves Goes to PSG - Not seen much of him at all,butmy initial impression is he goes for £70-80m (not the £59mbeingmentioned today) and he looks a real talent but maybea bit more of a better defensive version of Mainoo.
Also we DONT sign DeLigt or Ugarte to add money to there coffers. Think both are good players and decent value as well....but is Ugarte the first choice dm we crave and do we need to spend £40m as good (and young lets not forget) on a second choice cb?
Personally Istill think we an sign in these two positions for half the total fees and at similar levels in midfield espeially where there area number of very good Souh American midfielders...and that allows us for probably similar fees overall to sign the player I covet most andboth PSG and Bayern have already bid for...
Ugarte and De ligt £80-85m - Give us players to play cb and dm
or
Anselmio, Ezequiel Fernandez, DesireDoue £60-80m - give us players to play cb, dm, cm, lw, rw, am
The firs two are just examples, but I definately want a winger and personally unlike most probably, really thinkwe an approve at right back too and a starter,not a back up.
No more listening to deadline day coverage waiting for Utd to try and close a deal!
Long may it continue!
What is this sorcery?
Shows what having a competent structure, who know what they're doing can do.
Shows what having a competent structure, who know what they're doing can do.
Been screaming this for nearly 20 years mate.
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How’s your throat?
Really impressed with how quick we've seen the new signings. Both most important positions too and in the ideal age range. Can't let this stop now, need to really push the outgoings and work on other signings.
Imo we need all of the below to have any hope for next season:
Imo we need all of the below to have any hope for next season:
- 2 CDMs -- Established midfield destroyer + Young player in a similar mould to play backup.
- 1 CM -- Someone to rotate with Mainoo, Mount and Bruno. Similar skillset to Mainoo.
- 1 CB -- Experienced but not too old, more of a physical presence to play with Licha.
- 1 FB -- Full back versatile enough to play LB/RB, replacement for AWB. Kadioglu is a name that sticks out.
In truth, it shouldn't be too hard to keep control over that. But I'm waiting for that spreadsheet too. PSR-wise, I would suppose that what we've done so far (incl Greenwood) has more or less evened out.