Wimbledon 2016

Really? Women's tennis in Graf's time was even worse than the current levels of shitness?

Yes.

Not so much at the top of women's tennis, but during the early stages of competitions and qualifying rounds? Yes absolutely, giving you a easier route to finals.
 
Yes.

Not so much at the top of women's tennis, but during the early stages of competitions and qualifying rounds? Yes absolutely, giving you a easier route to finals.
The top is nonsensical these days though. Great players make it past the early rounds regardless. In fact Women's tennis is in the worst state I've personally seen it at. At one point you had Davenport, the William sisters, sharapova, Kim Clijsters (?), Justin Henin, Morezmo all around about the same period. And I could be missing some names. Today it's a bit farcical.
 
Really? Women's tennis in Graf's time was even worse than the current levels of shitness?
Serena has been around for donkey's of years to be fair. Not like she won all her slams in 2015, where the opposition was quite weak.
 
The top is nonsensical these days though. Great players make it past the early rounds regardless. In fact Women's tennis is in the worst state I've personally seen it at. At one point you had Davenport, the William sisters, sharapova, Kim Clijsters (?), Justin Henin, Morezmo all around about the same period. And I could be missing some names. Today it's a bit farcical.

Like anything it comes in eras, hopefully a higher calibre of players will come through in the next years.
 
Justine Henin was the rival Serena should've had, but she walked away from the sport at a ridiculously young age. If she'd stuck around, I'd wager that Serena would have a few less grand slams. The paucity of talent in the women's game is just shocking. Federer is 34 about to turn 35, and despite still playing at a ridiculously high level, has not won a major since he was 30 (last Wimbledon 2012), because of the emergence of younger players like Djoko, Nadal and Murray. The fact Serena continues to dominate, while being a testament to her incredible fitness levels, is also a damning indictment of the rest of the field. You could easily see her dominating until she is 36 or 37.

Also, not that I'd personally want to watch it, but I just don't understand why women don't play 5 sets at the slams.
 
Justine Henin was the rival Serena should've had, but she walked away from the sport at a ridiculously young age. If she'd stuck around, I'd wager that Serena would have a few less grand slams. The paucity of talent in the women's game is just shocking. Federer is 34 about to turn 35, and despite still playing at a ridiculously high level, has not won a major since he was 30 (last Wimbledon 2012), because of the emergence of younger players like Djoko, Nadal and Murray. The fact Serena continues to dominate, while being a testament to her incredible fitness levels, is also a damning indictment of the rest of the field. You could easily see her dominating until she is 36 or 37.

Also, not that I'd personally want to watch it, but I just don't understand why women don't play 5 sets at the slams.

Agreed.

Women's tennis is just so dull right now. When there is a sole dominant figure, it just makes it quite repetitive.
 
I think men's tennis may be entering a similar sort of phase to be honest. Outside of the big four I don't think there are any really outstanding talents like they are/were, I could see the slams being won much more evenly once Djokovic and Murray start to decline. It's crazy to think that in Fed, Nadal and Djokovic we've had three of the best players of all time all competing at the same time
 
Agreed.

Women's tennis is just so dull right now. When there is a sole dominant figure, it just makes it quite repetitive.
Three different slam winners this year so far.

I actually think women's tennis has got a lot more interesting this year.
 
The fact Serena continues to dominate, while being a testament to her incredible fitness levels, is also a damning indictment of the rest of the field

I find it worse that Venus can do feck all for most of the year but still easily get to Grand slam quarters and semis.
 
I'm not a big fan of comparing players in different eras in any sport but; Serena is undoubtedly better.
Graf herself even admitted she thinks Serena will pass even Court's record of 24 Grand Slams.

The arbitrary number of Grand Slams doesn't make you a better player than the next, because the context has to be taken into consideration. People say Serena dominates women's tennis but Steffi stayed number 1 for over 370 weeks & the players she was playing against aren't near the level of female players Serena is currently up against. That's the definition of domination.

Most people who don't rate Serena usually do so because they may not like her as a person for whatever reason, but very few have any real reason to argue that she's not the greatest. Other than amount of Grand Slam wins, and i'm confident she'll beat that too.

The main attribute in which Graf > Serena is probably agility or amount of court she covers. But in almost every other attribute, serve, backhand, forehand, power etc. Serena beats her.

She's the greatest.

Regarding Graf, we need to remember that Stefi wouldn't have quite so many slam titles if one of her countrymen hadn't gone and stabbed Monica Seles, who was dominating the women's game at the time.

In fact, that's why the guy did it. By his own admission, he wanted Stefi to be #1, not Monica.
 
Justine Henin was the rival Serena should've had, but she walked away from the sport at a ridiculously young age. If she'd stuck around, I'd wager that Serena would have a few less grand slams. The paucity of talent in the women's game is just shocking. Federer is 34 about to turn 35, and despite still playing at a ridiculously high level, has not won a major since he was 30 (last Wimbledon 2012), because of the emergence of younger players like Djoko, Nadal and Murray. The fact Serena continues to dominate, while being a testament to her incredible fitness levels, is also a damning indictment of the rest of the field. You could easily see her dominating until she is 36 or 37.

Also, not that I'd personally want to watch it, but I just don't understand why women don't play 5 sets at the slams.
See I'd say it's pretty damning for the men's game that a clearly declined 34 year old Federer was still the second best player in the world until January this year. Think I'm right in saying the big four will be 1-4 in the rankings again after Wimbledon - fair play to them but Federer's missed half the year and Nadal's been a non-factor in slams since 2014. And, as I think we'll see later today, there's a big gap between Djokovic and Murray and the rest.
 
See I'd say it's pretty damning for the men's game that a clearly declined 34 year old Federer was still the second best player in the world until January this year. Think I'm right in saying the big four will be 1-4 in the rankings again after Wimbledon - fair play to them but Federer's missed half the year and Nadal's been a non-factor in slams since 2014. And, as I think we'll see later today, there's a big gap between Djokovic and Murray and the rest.
Maybe we will, but Murray and Raonic's matches past two matches have been very competitive. At the Australian Open, Raonic probably would have won had his adductor not relapsed. At Queens a couple of weeks ago, he was a set and 3-0 up before Murray turned it around.

With all that said I expect to see Murray win today but I think we will start to see Raonic contending at the slams on a regular basis (apart from RG).
 
Maybe we will, but Murray and Raonic's matches past two matches have been very competitive. At the Australian Open, Raonic probably would have won had his adductor not relapsed. At Queens a couple of weeks ago, he was a set and 3-0 up before Murray turned it around.

With all that said I expect to see Murray win today but I think we will start to see Raonic contending at the slams on a regular basis (apart from RG).
Hope you're right on that last point, could really do with some different players stepping up and consistently fighting for slams.
 
So when do they just hand Murray the trophy? Ten minutes before the match starts or will they leave it until both players arrive on court? :rolleyes:

....The press have been shocking the last few days - on 5Live a few minutes ago the presenter just said "Well, Murray's obviously going to win". I think that this will be closer than we think.
 
Think and hope that Murray will win it, but Raonic will undoubtedly present a very tough challenge. Excellent player who seems to be coming into his prime. Murray's benefit will surely be from the fact that he's an excellent returner, which should hopefully help him to neuter Raonic's dangerous serve.
 
So when do they just hand Murray the trophy? Ten minutes before the match starts or will they leave it until both players arrive on court? :rolleyes:

....The press have been shocking the last few days - on 5Live a few minutes ago the presenter just said "Well, Murray's obviously going to win". I think that this will be closer than we think.

I think it will be very close too, I have a bad feeling Raonic might win this if nerves don't get to him.
 
I think it will be very close too, I have a bad feeling Raonic might win this if nerves don't get to him.

I have that feeling before any Murray match to be honest. I know he's mellowed in recent years but all t takes is for him to lose his head for a second and then.....
 
So when do they just hand Murray the trophy? Ten minutes before the match starts or will they leave it until both players arrive on court? :rolleyes:

....The press have been shocking the last few days - on 5Live a few minutes ago the presenter just said "Well, Murray's obviously going to win". I think that this will be closer than we think.

Smells like an Iceland.
 
Hope you're right on that last point, could really do with some different players stepping up and consistently fighting for slams.
Provided he doesn't have injuries, I'm confident on that. He's got a very different game to the rest of the big players and will always be tough. Mentally, he has come a long way and he is also playing a more varied brand of tennis. He did well at the Australian Open, and now at Wimbledon. I'd expect him to have some joy at the US Open this year. Probably won't ever do much on clay, but you're right, men's tennis has certainly needed a player like Raonic. Hopefully he continues to make strides.

We may get other players making breakthrough like this, because based on last year, I don't think many would have expected this of him.
 
Just watched a replay of the men's doubles final. Is there anyone else who gets really irritated when after every point the players are doing some kind of high five? Even when they lose a point.
Maybe it is just me :)
 
Few early unforced errors from Raonic.
 
Murray doing well here but Raonic isnt a mug. Think hes somewhat downplayed cos of who hes playing in the final (by the media)
 
He just looks calmer and more composed with Lendl there.
 
Relatively comfortable set in the end. Murray looking decent. Raonic hasn't been too bad but he's been far from his best: failing to trouble Murray all that much with his serve, and a number of unforced errors too. Would be surprised if Murray doesn't win it now, probably in four sets I reckon.
 
Raonic has been getting no joy returning Murray's serve. He's not played badly, but needs to step up his game to win it.
 
Did one of the BBC commentators just say that Richard Baker was a "good tennis player"? Isn't Baker just some executive for the LTA who used to be the boss of Boots?! Methinks someone is just trying to appear knowledgable.