Ah yeah sure I don't think his mental attitude is an issue at all. He's become a fighter now IMO.
Wimbledon 2012
- Thread starter Nearco
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Ah yeah sure I don't think his mental attitude is an issue at all. He's become a fighter now IMO.
Federer still has a couple of slams left in him. He will be a threat at Wimbledon for the next year or two and will also challenge at the Aussie and US. I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes with 20 slams.
Also, how the feck is Federer as fit as he is? His 25 year old opponents in Djokovic and Murray keep slipping, sliding, huffing and puffing and this guy looks like he never breaks a sweat.
I thought he had one in him prior to this. But his performances in the quarters, semis and final was quite superb (barring a set and a half in the final). I mean I don't think it's fair for me to expect a 30 year old to start winning many GS' but the level he showed this Wimbledon is good enough to win any of the hard and grass court slams. But as I said, as a fan, it will be a bonus for me.
First final in 9 attempts, so I'm still not quite sure this is the resurgence some are making it out to be(I would love it!). I just don't know if he has enough left in the tank for 3 more grand slams...
Always hated Sampras(I was an Agassi fan) so anything and everything he does to distance himself from Sampras pleased me
I'm not a Murray fan but I gained a lot of respect for him as I feel he played superbly and I'm not sure if he could have done any more plus he kept his twitch behaviour to a minimum. What to say about Roger other than a sublime effort and I am so glad he won. On to the Olympics now.
It's his movement and ability to dictate play. His anticipation is amazing, Murray hit some stunning shots and Federer was right there to pick them up, half volley onto the bassline etc. The guy is a genius.
First final in 9 attempts, so I'm still not quite sure this is the resurgence some are making it out to be(I would love it!). I just know if he has enough left in the tank for 3 more grand slams...
Always hated Sampras(I was an Agassi fan) so anything and everything he does to distance himself from Sampras pleased me
Yeah I'm not sure I see 3 more. I'm taking this as one last swangsong more than a revival to be honest. But you never know, there may be another GS in him if he can reproduce this level again. It will keep getting harder though. He's not a machine.
Incredible movement, football and balance indeed.
It's a shame both my idols will retire in the next 2-3 years
Such non sense. Similar to Liverpool fans believing their team is as good as United without winning anything.
I wouldn't be so sure. Nadal still has a at least 3/4 French Open's left in him, while I expect he'll win quite a few of the others as well in the next few years. if Djokovic doesn't maintain his current level and drops down at all, then I could see Nadal breaking Federer's record within a few years.
I don't believe Nadal will stand the test of time because of his attritional style of play...he's only 26, but has a ton of miles on those legs and that left shoulder.
currently 17-11
She is 24, fair game and legal.
Anything can happen but I don't see another 4 French Opens for Nadal. As the years go by his dominance will slip on that surface and I'm not sure he can be at Federer's level at 30. He is much more reliant on his legs. Djokovic will probably age a little better than Nadal.
Personally, I want to see someone different to Djokovic, Nadal and Murray entering the fray. I don't like the way either of them play the game. For me they're a bit lucky to play in this era where the courts completely suit "runners" more than "creators". I want to see someone like a Tsonga enter the fray who has some of Federer's traits be the next big thing in tennis. I like players who like to move forward and make things happen. But sadly for me the courts are such that I think we're going to keep getting players like them being at the forefront. In fact, Federer himself has had to hold himself from moving forward as much as he'd have liked because it just doesn't work on the surfaces being as slow as they do.
The Bryan brothers serve up bullets, don't they?..
Also, Djokovic now has something to think about. From complete dominance last year to being equal with the other two in terms of GS' this year and being number 2 is a bit of a drop. Let's see how he responds to not being at the top after being at the top.
I can see another 4 French Opens for Nadal, easily in fact. Clay specialist aren't really coming through anymore, because it's all about being all-rounders now, that's what the ATP wants and has altered courts for it. And Nadal is, still at the core of his game, a clay specialist, the best one ever for that. He gets to finals without breaking a sweat. He'll struggle to win 3-4 from the other slams though, Murray, Djoko, Tsonga, DelPo are all capable of beating him.
He's gonna look odd though if he does break the Slam record with like 12 French titles and only 5-6 of the others. -_-
He's gonna look odd though if he does break the Slam record with like 12 French titles and only 5-6 of the others. -_-
I'll probably have the Nadal fans hounding me but there's no way the courts are being altered to suit all-rounders. Federer is an all rounder. Tsonga is an all rounder. The courts have been altered so drastically and pathetically that they clearly suit defensive baseliners far too much. It makes it completely pointless most of the time to come to the net unelss it's a "surprise" option or to follow up a semi-winner. I find it absurd that they've gone to such an extreme. I think Sampras would really struggle on these courts. He'd have passing shots buzzing around his ears because of the time players have to set themselves up for the passing shot.
And forget volleying, even the relevance of the serve has been drastically reduced. I'm glad I've been lucky to follow Federer's career. But the future of tennis looks bleak to me in how imbalanced it is in favoring one kind of tennis player over another. And I find that kind of tennis a bit cowardly and boring if I'm perfectly honest.
I can still see Nadal dominating on clay. I agree that Novak will age better than him, but Nadal is just dominant on clay and I can see him being so into his 30s.
It's easy to forget that he's very good on grass as well. This years defeat was the first time he's lost at Wimbledon outside a final since 2005. In that time, his only defeats have come against the greatest grass player of all-time, and the other came against a Noval Djokovic having the year of his life. I can easily see a couple more Wimbledon titles, as well as at lwast a couple on the hard courts as well.
He's good of this kind of grass, yes.
And yes I can see him winning many majors still. But 17-11 as it stands and GS' have to be earned. Not that the numbers alter my own opinion. Federer is the greatest for me. No doubt in my mind about that whatsoever.
I don't doubt that Federer is the greatest, but this isn't a debate of who is the greatest. 17-11 is a fair gap, but it's far from irreversable. If Nadal wins the US Open, and has a very good year next year then he could potentially only be a few away, which is quite possible. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he eventually holds the record.
A lot will depend on how many new challengers there are in the next few years, and whether players like Tsonga and Del Potro for example can really make the step up and make it harder for the usual players to dominate in the GS's. If they don't though, I can see a fair few more for Nadal.
I wasn't aware Tsonga is already 27 until recently...late bloomer eh.
Unlucky Tim.
Yeah, I'm not denying he has more in him. For all we know maybe Federer has some in him as well. Maybe Djokovic will have another year like has last year and reach 8 or 9 very quickly.
My point is very different though and it's one that genuinely upsets me about the game. I've only discovered it fairly recently and the volume of information online about it is very conclusive but sad at the same time.
Hence for me, more than the number 17, this GS was more about Federer making a statement, really and reaching the summit one last time. The rest isn't all that relevant.
More like unfulfilled potential. The guy has insane ability. Although he would be phenomenal on faster courts more suited to volleying. Even these days when people are scared to come to the net he produces some incredible volleying ability. But he's probably lacking in mental strength no matter what the court.
This doubles final is quite amusing. Raymond has completely lost it and the other team are just targeting her. Great fight back from Paes and Vesina.
Tsonga had a lot of physical problems as a young man I think he only joined the tour at 22 after a slew of injuries.
I remember when a friend of mine attempting to big up Paes claimed there was no difference in prestige/quality required between winning a singles, doubles or mixed doubles GS title.
Didn't know that. What a fantastic player to watch he is. Rather watch him make errors than see Murray and co. hit winners. Pure flair.
I started going to post this earlier, but my missus wanted to go shopping for a mop, so...
I thought it was a great final. Murray coming out of the blocks like a steam train (I enjoy a mixed metaphor) made for a great final. Unfortunately he lost a couple of big points in the second set and they really hurt him. Federer was already on his way back and the break allowed him (or Paul Annacone) to tweak his tactics so he wasn't giving Murray the chance to work himself into rallies. He started to pick off the second serve and once he built up the momentum he looked like he couldn't be stopped. The roof being closed meant you could be much more sure of your technique, and that will always favour the more talented played.
But Murray should be proud of himself as for almost two sets he made Federer look very pedestrian. He was actually playing attacking tennis. I think losing the second set knocked the stuffing out of him in that "I've thrown everything at this cnut and we're still even" sort of way, and he seemed to revert to a slightly more defensive approach which played into Federer's hands. It looks to me like Lendl has made real progress with him and if he can continue to play like that instead of reverting to type when the pressure comes on then he's a cert win a major or two. But he did start to show negative body language when things turned around and that is something he needs to rein in. As McEnroe said beforehand, "Some players use that as a way to inspire them, I've never really seen Andy benefit from it". I can see Murray going close in the US Open if he doesn't struggle emotionally after this loss.
A few other things I noticed:
- The Brit commentator said, on at least a half dozen occasions, "There's no one fitter than Murray after the work he's done in the last few years. He won't outrun him". Well that's exactly what he did. Federer still looked fresh in the fourth set and Murray looked bedraggled and frustrated. He's not the only player that keeps fit. Obviously you can't expect them not to be a bit biased, but that was a really lazy - and with hindsight, daft - thing to keep harping on about.
- I agree with Pete and Mike. Andy's missus doesn't do it for me (obviously this comment is made while playing "Rate famous women that wouldn't piss on Brophs if he was on fire").
- Boris Becker is a good bloke.
- David Beckham is a delight.
- His wife, on the other hand, looks a right miserable cnut.
- There's a small part - hehe, gratuitous cock joke - of Henman that wants Murray never to win a major so he doesn't lose his fecking hill.
I thought it was a great final. Murray coming out of the blocks like a steam train (I enjoy a mixed metaphor) made for a great final. Unfortunately he lost a couple of big points in the second set and they really hurt him. Federer was already on his way back and the break allowed him (or Paul Annacone) to tweak his tactics so he wasn't giving Murray the chance to work himself into rallies. He started to pick off the second serve and once he built up the momentum he looked like he couldn't be stopped. The roof being closed meant you could be much more sure of your technique, and that will always favour the more talented played.
But Murray should be proud of himself as for almost two sets he made Federer look very pedestrian. He was actually playing attacking tennis. I think losing the second set knocked the stuffing out of him in that "I've thrown everything at this cnut and we're still even" sort of way, and he seemed to revert to a slightly more defensive approach which played into Federer's hands. It looks to me like Lendl has made real progress with him and if he can continue to play like that instead of reverting to type when the pressure comes on then he's a cert win a major or two. But he did start to show negative body language when things turned around and that is something he needs to rein in. As McEnroe said beforehand, "Some players use that as a way to inspire them, I've never really seen Andy benefit from it". I can see Murray going close in the US Open if he doesn't struggle emotionally after this loss.
A few other things I noticed:
- The Brit commentator said, on at least a half dozen occasions, "There's no one fitter than Murray after the work he's done in the last few years. He won't outrun him". Well that's exactly what he did. Federer still looked fresh in the fourth set and Murray looked bedraggled and frustrated. He's not the only player that keeps fit. Obviously you can't expect them not to be a bit biased, but that was a really lazy - and with hindsight, daft - thing to keep harping on about.
- I agree with Pete and Mike. Andy's missus doesn't do it for me (obviously this comment is made while playing "Rate famous women that wouldn't piss on Brophs if he was on fire").
- Boris Becker is a good bloke.
- David Beckham is a delight.
- His wife, on the other hand, looks a right miserable cnut.
- There's a small part - hehe, gratuitous cock joke - of Henman that wants Murray never to win a major so he doesn't lose his fecking hill.
I thought that was more mental that physical, Murray started stropping and moaning after the loss of the third set. The big factor for me was Murray's appalling first serve with only 56% in - you can't win with that % and he was nearly always struggling to win his serve and then too exhausted to put pressure on Federer's.
Yeah, fair point, it's easier to look fresh when you're winning. But I did think Murray was looking a bit jaded from around the third set.
Also today was a pretty neat comparison of arguably the best second serve in the game and one that needs a lot of work.
Agree 100%. It was nice to see a match today that was not a total baseline slug-fest and I never want to go near another 6 hour match like Djokovic and Nadal produced at the Australian. If Roger had played in the 90s he would have won Wimbledon more than 7 times as the court is so different now. I too would like to see someone come through who has an all court game and is more attack minded. I also do not see Nadal winning more than a couple more French opens if that. His body is breaking down and he can be hit off the court by the big-hitters like Del Po and hopefully Raonic. If Djokovic slides a bit there will be an opening for Murray or someone else to come through as Roger surely cannot hold back Father Time much longer. But while he does I will love it
Yes I pointed this out after the Djokovic's game. Federer's second serve is incredible, although I think it was better in that game than this one.
Also I thought he changed his tactics after the rain break in that he started attacking Murray's second serve instead of simply pushing it into play with little pace but some depth. That for me was an extremely importan shift. Not sure it came after the second set or after the rain break.
After the rain break, I thought he was not taking advantage of all those second serves before that. especially in the first set (paradoxically Murray got 72% first serves in in the second set which he lost).
Yeah, me too. I reckon Annacone gave him a bollocking for that during the break. It was a pretty much instantaneous swing after they came back.
Yep. And the non attacking returns definitely seemed to be a tactical move. He pretty much did it every single time. I thought that was a strange move. Maybe he thought the pressure was going to get to Andy.
I reckon Nadal will end up with around 15-17. He's so dominant on clay that I expect 2 or 3 more Slams there and he's easily good enough to add a Slam or two elsewhere over the next 3 years. Can't see him winning any slam barring maybe the French after he turns 29 though.