Willian - worth a punt?

Rajma said:
Sort 2+1 contract (option to extend on our side) with reasonable wage demands, hell why not in the position we’re light. Rather this than splashing 100m on Sancho, we need to be wiser in the market.
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Not at all. Sancho is one of the coming men of world football. Willian is a very good player now coming to the end of his career, with a lot of miles on the clock. One could take United back to the top, and that’s where the club should aspire to be.
 
Let Mourinho take him. Please.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Please name that player. There's a whole thread for Sancho alternatives. The problem with alternatives is everyone club seems to be asking £50m for players with a bit of pace, and no better ball skills than Chong. Doesn't look like we can find an alternative, nor afford Sancho. Looks like Willian is best cheap 'alternative'.
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So you have scouting reports for every other RW in the world?

Willian
this season - 3 goals
18 /19 - 3 goals 6 assists

Dan James this season 4 goals 7 assists

Willian will be 32 this summer and James is 22.

He is cheap for a reason, he will not improve this team.
 
If we don't get Sancho and we are absolutely sure we will get him next season then he's worth a punt but only on a 1 year contract. Personally rather see Greenwood as RW if Sancho doesn't come this season
 
There wouldn't be a place for him to start. It'll be Pogba, Fernandes and Mctominay/Fred

But yes, I would sign him. People saying no to this were all over the Zlatan signing.
 
People are being crazy. No RW in the squad and people would say no to someone in great condition with PL experience. He is a top ball carrier and I think he would link the midfield and attack really well and be an experienced head in a youthful team.

I don’t want another season of Mata or Lingard squeezed in there. Get this guy in and give ourselves a good option!
 
4 or 5 years ago? Sure. But now? No. We need smart long term thinking, not signing big names 'because we can'
 
The Purley King said:
Have read a few articles over the last couple of days saying we might be interested in Willian on a free when he leaves Chelsea.
Depending on wage demands I'd definitely sign him on a free. On his day he's an excellent player and he should be around his peak now, or maybe just past it. 3 year contract and he can leave when he's 34.
What says the caf?
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3 year contract for a 31 year old? Absolutely insane.
 
He might be somewhat worth signing given that fixture congestion will likely be pretty bad next season but only on a one year deal which I see no reason to believe he would agree to and he would likely want more than a rotation/backup player salary, so realistically no.
 
We already have enough players with shit output so Willian would be redundant.
 
Not worth it and probably just lazy paper talk.

If for some reason nothing is happening in the market I could see a year or two maybe to fill a gap if he'd accept reasonable wages but would be dross over dross in the hope it's a fraction better.
 
No but I would look at shaktar and think they are doing something right with their scouting and development. Fernandinho, Fred and Willian have all been class in the PL. Miki dominated the Bundesliga for 2 seasons. So by the powers of deduction Tete might be worth a look. He’s young and can play all across the front. I wouldn’t like too many stop gap signings on big money. I’d rather give the minutes to someone we can develop even as a rotation with sancho. Willian is only 31. Chelsea wouldn’t be letting him go on a free if he had much mileage left on the clock. There’d be much more noise about trying to sign him up for one more year etc. I can see him going to someone like spurs or arsenal and then being allowed to leave to a league in Asia for huge wages on a free next year sometime.
 
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Only for 1 year if Sancho or his alternative is not available
 
I didn’t want him a few years back and I certainly don’t want him now.
 
Willian can be a very polarizing player. He's a guy who excels when the game is stretched and uses his pace with a bit of trickery to beat his man and carry the ball forward quickly. When he's up against a team which sits back he's normally rubbish because he needs the space in behind to beat his man and he lacks the vision to thread a defense splitting through ball so all his passes are sideways. That's why he's at his best in the big games when the opposition set up to attack us. It's also no coincidence that he shone in our disastrous 15/16 year when pretty much every team realised we were there for the taking and went on the front door from the get go.
 
romufc said:
That is fine then. But then why do we need him? We have Dan James, Greenwood and Chong?
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Don't have an opinion either way on Willian tbh but there seems to be a massive collective amnesia at how bad James was bar those first initial games and how awful Chong was in any appearances he made...I mean he didnt even look like he had played before at times.

That's an exaggeration obviously but I dont see them being with us in 2 years time and think we will look back on them like Obertan.
 
welshwingwizard said:
Don't have an opinion either way on Willian tbh but there seems to be a massive collective amnesia at how bad James was bar those first initial games and how awful Chong was in any appearances he made...I mean he didnt even look like he had played before at times.

That's an exaggeration obviously but I dont see them being with us in 2 years time and think we will look back on them like Obertan.
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hahaha give over! james is already a much better signing than obertan tosic or Bebe. The main problem with him is I think he’s much more dangerous cutting in from the left as he doesn’t have the trickery or physically to come across onto his weak foot and be much of a threat. His speed is insane and his crossing from the right is improving. He seems a hard worker, a good lad and happy to develop here as a squad player. He played way more games than he should have this season and burnt out. He’s also been through a lot. I’m happy to give him time here to see how much he can improve.
 
If we're going for Sancho in 2021 instead and we sign a 10 like Grealish or Maddison or Havertz then sure, bring in a decent winger for a loan or free for a year like Bayern did with Perisic, but Willian probably wants more than a one year deal and massive wages. There will be better options and even more so with the Covid economic depression/recession.

Already guys like Lozano, Bernardeschi, Brahim Diaz, Lemar and Vitolo come to mind as maybe loan or loan to buy options that I would rather have for a year than Willian for his age 32 season, which is old as hell for a winger, and his stats imply a 2-3 goals in 25 season is coming soon for him.
 
VP89 said:
You're quoting a post where I said it would only be considered if Sancho was coming, and then suggesting in your post that I'm implying a substitution for Sancho. It's not uncommon to bring in a player on 100+ a week for a squad option provided they add in various other areas, such as experience and leadership that the manager feels would be a great suit to his team. Young was on 100k+ as a squad option, and he left on his own accord to move to Inter Milan. Jones is on 100k+ FFS. 100k plus in todays world is not a silly sum for seasoned squad players at top clubs. And you'll need 1-2 of those heads in the squad, you'll need that balance and that leadership.

I'm not begging for Willian here but I'm just saying don't rule him off with a "oh but Sanchez" outlook. That's just lazy.
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I never compared him to Sanchez.

We have the likes of Young/Jones/Lingards on insane contracts due to piss poor management, if you notice anything about what Ole is trying to do to the squad is re-shape it and sell off the deadwood.

Adding deadwood like Willian solves nothing, not only from a wages point of view but from an ability view as well.

Willian doesnt offer leadership, he's been bang average at Chelsea for years. Being an older player doesnt make you a leader.

Look at the type of player and feel to the club Ole is trying to shape - Willian does not fit into that bracket

Willian isnt good enough to be here - period. End of discussion
 
No, these type of transfers are a thing of the past, thank God for that.
 
If we could get him for 2+1 contract I would all in if it happens that we can't get Sancho. He's a good player that would provide some good years on our right wing. None is even close to him on our right wing. Also because of his age, Greenwood would have a lot of opportunities compared to Sancho who'd be a definitive starter.
 
Craig Ward said:
We have the likes of Young/Jones/Lingards on insane contracts due to piss poor management, if you notice anything about what Ole is trying to do to the squad is re-shape it and sell off the deadwood.
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Young left, Lingard will go and ironically Ole saw to it that Jones gets a bumper 5 year deal.
Craig Ward said:
Adding deadwood like Willian solves nothing, not only from a wages point of view but from an ability view as well.
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Why are you operating in binary fashion? If a player is not joining as a starter that doesn't make him deadwood. His ability is still good, he's a very useful squad player at worst without any injury history.
Craig Ward said:
Willian doesnt offer leadership, he's been bang average at Chelsea for years. Being an older player doesnt make you a leader.
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Being superb at football doesn't make you a leader either. You have feck all knowledge to discount his leadership, whereas I can point at least to his professionalism and hard working ethics on the pitch which would transcend to his peers.
Craig Ward said:
Look at the type of player and feel to the club Ole is trying to shape - Willian does not fit into that bracket
Willian isnt good enough to be here - period. End of discussion
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Nor does Jones, and Ole didn't want Young to leave when he did either.Yes we want to build a young team, but we don't want ONLY young players. He wouldn't have bothered giving Jones a 5 year deal (stupid decision) but also Matic a further extension on top.[/QUOTE]
 
God no.
He’s a good squad player, but in no way is he right for us.

he’s looking for a big payday, and nothing wrong with that - but imagine him on a 2-3 year contract, and the amount that will cost!

most likely he’s off to Spurs.
 
It would depend on a few variables (salary, alternative options we can get, sale of current players mata/pereira/lingard etc) but the general opinion from me is no. Not the type of profile we’re recruiting and I’m happy with that.
 
Terrible recommendation, he looked inconsistent the few times I've seen him this season. Ageing player on top we need longevity down the right wing, James isn't good enough to sustain the position so Sancho is the best alternative.
 
VP89 said:
Young left, Lingard will go and ironically Ole saw to it that Jones gets a bumper 5 year deal.

Why are you operating in binary fashion? If a player is not joining as a starter that doesn't make him deadwood. His ability is still good, he's a very useful squad player at worst without any injury history.

Being superb at football doesn't make you a leader either. You have feck all knowledge to discount his leadership, whereas I can point at least to his professionalism and hard working ethics on the pitch which would transcend to his peers.

Nor does Jones, and Ole didn't want Young to leave when he did either.Yes we want to build a young team, but we don't want ONLY young players. He wouldn't have bothered giving Jones a 5 year deal (stupid decision) but also Matic a further extension on top.
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Please enlighten me with your great insight into Willians leadership capabilities?

Ole let Young go in favour of using Shaw/Williams.

The Jones deal is a calamity whoever wanted it. Massive error, think we can all agree on that.

The Matic deal made sense as he played himself back into form and contention when we were light in midfield. Matic is a good pro who has proven to be a good squad member.

Im not operating in a binary fashion. We simply disagree on whether Willian could offer us anything. You clearly think so, i don't. Short term or long term, Willian should not even be a target we are discussing. Why should we take players Chelsea dont want? He isnt good enough for them and we are striving to be better than them.

By your logic we should just keep Smalling and Sanchez while we're at it? Cos they are both old and can be leaders, no?

Just try and think logically and raise your standard a little. If your happy with mid table nonsense, keep the same thought process and you'll be fine.
 
Craig Ward said:
Please enlighten me with your great insight into Willians leadership capabilities?
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He's a seasoned player and a title winner, his professionalism is highly rated by all the manager's he's worked for. His effort on the pitch is there for all to see and you can extrapolate from there that he's more likely to be a positive influence on the team than a negative/idle one.
Craig Ward said:
Ole let Young go in favour of using Shaw/Williams.
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No he didn't - Young wanted out when Inter came calling and left midway through the season. Why do you keep ignoring this?
Craig Ward said:
The Jones deal is a calamity whoever wanted it. Massive error, think we can all agree on that.
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Yeah, Ole signed off on that one.
Craig Ward said:
The Matic deal made sense as he played himself back into form and contention when we were light in midfield. Matic is a good pro who has proven to be a good squad member.
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So being a good pro and playing well as a squad player does matter. Make up your mind.
Craig Ward said:
Im not operating in a binary fashion. We simply disagree on whether Willian could offer us anything. You clearly think so, i don't. Short term or long term, Willian should not even be a target we are discussing. Why should we take players Chelsea dont want? He isnt good enough for them and we are striving to be better than them.
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You literally are. Your initial point came out from Wilian being old and therefore useless. It's as binary as it gets.

Craig Ward said:
By your logic we should just keep Smalling and Sanchez while we're at it? Cos they are both old and can be leaders, no?
Just try and think logically and raise your standard a little. If your happy with mid table nonsense, keep the same thought process and you'll be fine.
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Hilarious - I literally pointed to professionalism, work ethic, title winning experience and you go back to your binary mode to try and suggest my sole point is "old = leadership". And then you have the cheek to talk to me about logical thinking. Your entire argument is based on black or white garbage.

"Chelsea don't want him, why should we take him" - It wouldn't be the first mistake Chelsea made with letting go of a player, so not impossible to think Wilian can be a good free transfer for any club to be honest.
"Ole got rid of Young" - I mean soon enough he would have but its obvious Young asked to leave at a time Ole didn't want him to go so your argument collapses there.
"Look at the players Ole wants to bring in" - *see's the Jones example " - "That's a calamity" (!?)
"Matic played himself into form and is a good pro". And you think Wilian isn't a potential good squad option or a good pro? What's this based on?

Curious to know how many Chelsea games you watch to be honest -whilst Wilian is not a player for week in week out, he's consistently a dependable player for a decent performance. And all big clubs need those squad options. Chelsea can let go of him, that doesn't mean he won't be missed if unreplaced, or that he wont go on to add value at another club in a bit/part role.
 
VP89 said:
He's a seasoned player and a title winner, his professionalism is highly rated by all the manager's he's worked for. His effort on the pitch is there for all to see and you can extrapolate from there that he's more likely to be a positive influence on the team than a negative/idle one.

No he didn't - Young wanted out when Inter came calling and left midway through the season. Why do you keep ignoring this?

Yeah, Ole signed off on that one.

So being a good pro and playing well as a squad player does matter. Make up your mind.

You literally are. Your initial point came out from Wilian being old and therefore useless. It's as binary as it gets.


Hilarious - I literally pointed to professionalism, work ethic, title winning experience and you go back to your binary mode to try and suggest my sole point is "old = leadership". And then you have the cheek to talk to me about logical thinking. Your entire argument is based on black or white garbage.

"Chelsea don't want him, why should we take him" - It wouldn't be the first mistake Chelsea made with letting go of a player, so not impossible to think Wilian can be a good free transfer for any club to be honest.
"Ole got rid of Young" - I mean soon enough he would have but its obvious Young asked to leave at a time Ole didn't want him to go so your argument collapses there.
"Look at the players Ole wants to bring in" - *see's the Jones example " - "That's a calamity" (!?)
"Matic played himself into form and is a good pro". And you think Wilian isn't a potential good squad option or a good pro? What's this based on?

Curious to know how many Chelsea games you watch to be honest -whilst Wilian is not a player for week in week out, he's consistently a dependable player for a decent performance. And all big clubs need those squad options. Chelsea can let go of him, that doesn't mean he won't be missed if unreplaced, or that he wont go on to add value at another club in a bit/part role.
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He was allowed to leave midway through the season for little fee so clearly we weren't exactly bothered by his departure, we could have easily refused the sell him if Ole wasn't sure about Williams and Shaw.
 
Craig Ward said:
Im not operating in a binary fashion. We simply disagree on whether Willian could offer us anything. You clearly think so, i don't. Short term or long term, Willian should not even be a target we are discussing. Why should we take players Chelsea dont want? He isnt good enough for them and we are striving to be better than them.
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It's not a simple at "Chelsea don't want him". It's club policy at Chelsea not to offer players over a certain age more than a 1 year contract. Willian wants a longer contract than that.
 
If we were to sign him just to add depth then I might be ok with it AFTER we signed a starting left winger. But do we really need more players who aren't good enough for the starting 11?
 
Willian is 10 times better than mata. This season I observed the way he participates in launching attacks/counter attack and he has not lost his edge. Quite intelligent in creating space, good shooter, work in the middle or on wing. If we are getting him for free then 2 years contract will do no harm at all.
 
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