Willian - worth a punt?

Che Guevara said:
Like which ones? From reports so far, most are support and admin staff. They are getting rid of Cagigao because, after their restructuring, they feel Edu will adequately cover that job. Are they right? Only time and results will tell. I agree that Luiz's days at the top are numbered and frankly he is lucky to still be starting (although he was the MOTM against City), but they have brought in two new CBs (Saliba and Mari) in addition to Holdings and Chambers. Also, in my opinion Willian and Coutinho will be very good additions to their squad, they are still more than decent players by any standards.
Click to expand...

They've let go of their head of international scouting and various heads of regional scouting. These include the chap who was around for 24 years and vital to bringing in great gems. Then citing covid, they let go of 2 more key scouts in Brian Mcdermott, and Clarke (who I think was head of UK Scouting).

Then they let go of more regional scouts, hour by hour, who were employed in a consultancy basis. Whilst this is not unusual from covid, no club has made such big cuts in this department as Arsenal have. And its really no coincidence that they are using Kias relationship to bring in players, which massively limits the pool of talent they can go for. Cedric, Wilian, Luiz, Coutinho all Kia's clients.

Coutinho and Wilan are also circumstantial. They aren't part of a long term plan, quite obviously and they will add to quality but it points to a circumstantial relationship with one agent, not a well thought out plan from Edu. Not yet anyway.

My source is from an Athletic affiliated podcast which analysed this issue for what it's worth. The loss of key staff wasn't well received by the squad either apparently.
Che Guevara said:
Giroud is almost 34 and easily Chelsea's best striker at the moment. Besides, Chelsea actually wanted to give Willian a new contract, albeit a 2-year one.
Click to expand...
Giroud's style of play allows age to be less of a factor where as its quite notorious that wingers have a problem with age unless they adapt their game. Wilan is a good squad option but 2 years really was really a fair limit to offer the bloke!
 
Last edited:
I’m delighted with this one. We need someone to come in and make an immediate impact because we have enough promising youngsters who might never make it and Willian has just had a very productive season and is fully settled in the PL/London.

At 5m a year he will cost us 20m over 4 years which is nothing for what he could potentially offer. I think it was a no brainer of a deal and the fact that Lampard wanted to keep him is telling as well. Unlike Utd who could afford to keep throwing money at their problems until they got somewhere, we have a limited budget and signings like this are a necessary part of our rebuild while we save the transfer cash for other signings.
 
Mastadon said:
Unlike Utd who could afford to keep throwing money at their problems until they got somewhere, we have a limited budget
Click to expand...
2019/20 Tierney 25 million, Luiz 8 mill, Martinelli 6, pepe 72 million, Ceballos 16, Saliba 27. Season 18/19 leno 19.5 million, Papastathopoulos 17.6, Guendouzi 8, Torreira 27.6 million. Season 17/18 Lacazette 52.7 million, Aubameyang 56 mill.

You're problem is not spending, it's getting in the wrong players. You have 3 front players who cost 180.7 million and you cant match a kid (Mason) playing his first season, a player in Rashie injured and out of form at the start and another in AM, for that money and experince you shouldn't be scoring 10 less than us, you should be scoring twice that more than us.
 
patty123 said:
2019/20 Tierney 25 million, Luiz 8 mill, Martinelli 6, pepe 72 million, Ceballos 16, Saliba 27. Season 18/19 leno 19.5 million, Papastathopoulos 17.6, Guendouzi 8, Torreira 27.6 million. Season 17/18 Lacazette 52.7 million, Aubameyang 56 mill.

You're problem is not spending, it's getting in the wrong players. You have 3 front players who cost 180.7 million and you cant match a kid (Mason) playing his first season, a player in Rashie injured and out of form at the start and another in AM, for that money and experince you shouldn't be scoring 10 less than us, you should be scoring twice that more than us.
Click to expand...

Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
 
His biggest motivation is to stay in London for as long as possible.

Instead of performing week in week out so that he can keep renewing every year with his club, he just decides to go the easy route.

I'd say he's probably going to improve Arsenal, at least in his first season, but I can't see him being too arsed about things when things go wrong (and they will). His attitude will fit Arsenal perfectly :lol:
 
Rojofiam said:
His biggest motivation is to stay in London for as long as possible.

Instead of performing week in week out so that he can keep renewing every year with his club, he just decides to go the easy route.

I'd say he's probably going to improve Arsenal, at least in his first season, but I can't see him being too arsed about things when things go wrong (and they will). His attitude will fit Arsenal perfectly :lol:
Click to expand...

This post is a new level of laziness. Because a player prefers to live in London rather than shift abroad at the end of his career, he must have a poor attitude? :lol: That's a bit of a jump
 
VP89 said:
This post is a new level of laziness. Because a player prefers to live in London rather than shift abroad at the end of his career, he must have a poor attitude? :lol: That's a bit of a jump
Click to expand...

Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?

EDIT: This is why I liked the idea that we used to give 30+ players no more than 1 year extensions. If I'm not wrong, we gave Matic a longer extension not long ago, right?
 
Rojofiam said:
Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?
Click to expand...
Because it's likely his final contract for a major league, and he wants to compete for a big club in London in the Premier League for as long as possible?

It's normal for any professional footballer to get the best contract available, this doesn't point to laziness or a bad attitude. If he wasn't fecked he'd take any big money offer, so it's not all about the money. He clearly 1) prefers London, 2) wants to compete and 3) wants his final contract to be a good one. 99% of top footballers approach the final stages of their career in similar fashions.
 
Rojofiam said:
Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?

EDIT: This is why I liked the idea that we used to give 30+ players no more than 1 year extensions. If I'm not wrong, we gave Matic a longer extension not long ago, right?
Click to expand...

He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
 
duffer said:
He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
Click to expand...

Continues to cement himself as a Tottenham legend!

A mixture of both monetary factors and playing time I would suggest. Clearly the 3 year contract is important to him, as well as being part of the first team squad.
 
Mastadon said:
Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
Click to expand...

Liverpool in the past 2-3 seasons sure. Before then and even in the first few years under Kloop they were piss poor hence winning feck all.
 
duffer said:
He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
Click to expand...
I'm actually curious if this will be the case or not. Arsenal are pretty well stocked in the attacking areas. Wonder how pleased the Arsenal fans will be seeing Willian playing instead of their youngsters like Martinelli and Saka who they rave about constantly.
 
Mastadon said:
Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
Click to expand...

Going by reported numbers, it's far from "Squad which costs slightly more than 50% of ManUtd squad"

There might be difference of few millions btw.

ArsenalManUtd
Bernd Leno
22.5​
De Gea
18.9​
Kieran Tierney
25​
Lindelof
35​
Sokratis Papastathopoulos
17.6​
Bailly
30​
Alexandre Lacazette
55​
Jones
16​
Mesut Özil
42.5​
Maguire
80​
Lucas Torreira
26​
Pogba
89​
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
56​
Mata
37​
Rob Holding
2​
Martial
44​
Nicolas Pépé
72​
Rojo
16​
Shkodran Mustafi
35​
Fred
47​
Calum Chambers
16​
Bruno
60​
Pablo Marí
7​
Dalot
20​
David Luiz
8​
Daniel James
15​
Matteo Guendouzi
7​
Shaw
27​
Granit Xhaka
40​
AWB
45​
Gabriel Martinelli
5​
Matic
40​
Total
437​
Total
619.9​
 
VP89 said:
They've let go of their head of international scouting and various heads of regional scouting. These include the chap who was around for 24 years and vital to bringing in great gems. Then citing covid, they let go of 2 more key scouts in Brian Mcdermott, and Clarke (who I think was head of UK Scouting).

Then they let go of more regional scouts, hour by hour, who were employed in a consultancy basis. Whilst this is not unusual from covid, no club has made such big cuts in this department as Arsenal have. And its really no coincidence that they are using Kias relationship to bring in players, which massively limits the pool of talent they can go for. Cedric, Wilian, Luiz, Coutinho all Kia's clients.

Coutinho and Wilan are also circumstantial. They aren't part of a long term plan, quite obviously and they will add to quality but it points to a circumstantial relationship with one agent, not a well thought out plan from Edu. Not yet anyway.

My source is from an Athletic affiliated podcast which analysed this issue for what it's worth. The loss of key staff wasn't well received by the squad either apparently.

Giroud's style of play allows age to be less of a factor where as its quite notorious that wingers have a problem with age unless they adapt their game. Wilan is a good squad option but 2 years really was really a fair limit to offer the bloke!
Click to expand...
I agree they took advantage of Covid to get rid of staff. But I can't see why you seem to think this will necessarily weaken them. And just because somebody has been at the club for 24 years doesn't mean they are irreplaceable or their replacement will do worse. As I said, my take is Edu is taking over a lot of Cagigao's responsibilities. I agree the signing of Coutinho and Willian (if they happen) are short-term, obviously they want to get back to CL football asap, and I think the two will definitely improve them. Also they still have a very good pool of young players. Like with any major decision in football, nobody knows if their restructuring and new recruitment strategy will work, it's certainly too early to draw any firm conclusions either way.
 
Last edited:
I think Arsenal would have looked at it in terms of , how much would a player similar to the ability of Willian cost in terms of transfer fee and wages and probably taken a reasonable calculation that it was worth giving him the extra year to secure the deal. Purely as a squad rotational player I think Willian contributes to any of the top 6. Interested to see how Arteta uses him given the massive resources put in to get Pepe who usually plays the same position. I actually think Pepe might come good next season albeit that’s a separate discussion.
 
Far too many people are just focusing on the part that a 35 yr old player should not earn so much.
Look at it the other way,
How much would it cost to loan a player of Willians calibre who is almost in his prime (keep the players age aside as we are talking about just loaning him for 1 yr).
Wages: 130k/week (what willian was earning at Chelsea) = 6.5m
Loan fee: 6m ( considering we are paying close to 4 for Ceballos and Barca are rumoured to be asking 9m for Coutinho)

So thats 12.5m for 1 yr
Compared to that 15m (+bonuses which i think will take it to 20m) is still a decent deal.

As an arsenal fan i would say its a good deal as it does not block off other young players like nelson. And also atleast for next year we get a pretty solid player.
 
SirAnderson said:
Click to expand...


Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
 
The Purley King said:
Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
Click to expand...

Most reports are actually saying he is taking a pay cut. £100k a week now compared to 150/120k a week at Chelsea. However with the 3 year deal offered by us rather than the 2 years on offer at Chelsea he will be making more money that way.
 
The Purley King said:
Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
Click to expand...
Well they won't need him when they have Werner and Ziyech (plus Hudson Odoi, Pulisic, Mount). I really don't see how Wilian can squeeze into a front 3 often enough for that squad to justify £220k a week for 3 years.
 
MalBot said:
Most reports are actually saying he is taking a pay cut. £100k a week now compared to 150/120k a week at Chelsea. However with the 3 year deal offered by us rather than the 2 years on offer at Chelsea he will be making more money that way.
Click to expand...

"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
 
duffer said:
"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
Click to expand...
The £100,000pw does not include bonuses and other add-ons. If he earns those then he is playing well. The main difference with the Chelsea offer was the extra 1 year.
 
duffer said:
"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
Click to expand...

After the season ended and we were being heavily linked with him, I remember clicking on those reports and finding almost all of those had those figures.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soc...arsenal-on-three-year100k-a-week-deal-sources

https://onefootball.com/en/news/her...ut-willian-is-taking-to-join-arsenal-30651822

Since he was pretty much confirmed to be signing for us by reliable journalist I didn't need to be reading that kind of news anymore, so naturally didn't bother anymore. Hadn't realised the story had changed and now there are also a lot of reports suggesting he is on much more money.
 
If we were open to paying high wages and agent fees to an experienced international on a free transfer purely from a short term point of view, surely Willian would have made more sense than Cavani?

Willian also didn't need to adapt to England, is PL proven, and can actually play RW.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
If we were open to paying high wages and agent fees to an experienced international on a free transfer purely from a short term point of view, surely Willian would have made more sense than Cavani?

Willian also didn't need to adapt to England, is PL proven, and can actually play RW.
Click to expand...

Agreed in a vacuum but the problem for you is that Willian desperately didn't want to leave London to the point where he turned down Barcelona - his family are completely settled and he is at least a part-owner in a couple established businesses.
 
If we'd signed Willian, then some fans would have groaned that the priority should have been to land another striker, to compete with Martial.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
If we were open to paying high wages and agent fees to an experienced international on a free transfer purely from a short term point of view, surely Willian would have made more sense than Cavani?

Willian also didn't need to adapt to England, is PL proven, and can actually play RW.
Click to expand...

Willian would not have accepted a 1 year deal or a backup role.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Agreed in a vacuum but the problem for you is that Willian desperately didn't want to leave London to the point where he turned down Barcelona - his family are completely settled and he is at least a part-owner in a couple established businesses.
Click to expand...

Moving to Barcelona and La Liga is a much steeper cultural shock than moving to Manchester and staying in the PL, though. It is likely that we would have offered more wages than Barca as well.

duffer said:
Willian would not have accepted a 1 year deal or a backup role.
Click to expand...

For the RW role, we would have given him at least a 3 year contract to rotate with Greenwood and Rashford, he would have had James/Mata/Lingard's minutes and more.

If we had decided to offer ~200k/week wages for a 34 yo free transfer, that is. Which is pretty much what we did.

We'd be guaranteed returns with PL-proven Willian, too. Something we can't say about Cavani.
 
Rojofiam said:
His biggest motivation is to stay in London for as long as possible.

Instead of performing week in week out so that he can keep renewing every year with his club, he just decides to go the easy route.

I'd say he's probably going to improve Arsenal, at least in his first season, but I can't see him being too arsed about things when things go wrong (and they will). His attitude will fit Arsenal perfectly :lol:
Click to expand...


VP89 said:
This post is a new level of laziness. Because a player prefers to live in London rather than shift abroad at the end of his career, he must have a poor attitude? :lol: That's a bit of a jump
Click to expand...

9 months later...



215435817_175648644547745_2857711583430746473_n.jpg
 
Dodged a massive bullet there, incredible to see posts saying he would have made more sense than Cavani but to be fair Ed did get off to a pretty slow start. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Judging by the belly and the performances Arsenal are going to be waiting a long time for an offer, finally ditch one overpaid scrub in Ozil and promptly saddle themselves with another.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.