Will SAF use this moment to speak up?

[Maticmaker]

As far as I’m concerned Ferguson can do what he likes and I won’t hold it against him

But can you not see how significant it would be if he came out against the owners? He could force them out single handily. It would absolutely be front page news

Sorry I doubt that first bit, yes of course if anyone associated with United, even 'farts' in the street, its on Granada News and is headlines the following day
SAF went along with the Glazers for a few years. Maybe when Gill left and he could see they way they were intending to run the club going forward and also that his own 'autocracy' was being over taken by Ed Woodward's, so he decided to follow Gill and get out, but we will never know (unless SAF has a third book ready!).

Great manager and servant to the club though he was, SAF is now 'old news' and the last thing we need now is even more retrospection.

 

[Tigersam]

Speaking as an outsider, I find this thread quite amazing. It is full of contradictions & sometimes a poster may even contradict themselves too, look at this exchange as an example:

People really need to let go of SAF. We need to move on from him.

which drew this response:

Why? He’s done nothing other than prop them up for years, in spite of the fact the squad became progressively worse towards the end of his tenure.

Also, he is eighty. He should be relaxing and enjoying himself, not getting into club-related squabbles.

Well @romufc that is a bit difficult when on the Tuesday after the pre-season tour ended Ronaldo was at the training ground, but so was Sir Alex - not as I assumed at the time, to persuade Christiano to stay (or maybe go!) but to sort out the new Gill/Robson/Ferguson 'think tank'. You may want the club to move on from him, but he wants to stay involved. Why do the owners let him? because he is useful as he acts as a buffer between them and the fans.

This whole topic (the Gazers and Sir Alex) must be causing so much angst for United fans as exemplified by @Kag who not only criticises Sir Alex twice - for not leaving a decent squad for his successor and for propping up the Glazers, but then in the next sentence he sticks up for the ex-Manager: '.... he is eighty. He should be relaxing and enjoying himself'. The problem is, Sir Alex enjoying himself isn't working on the allotment or travelling the world, it's being involved in Manchester United and he wont ever stop, especially whilst the Glazers remain.

Some people in private, on their keyboards, even go so far as to hold Sir Alex responsible for the Glazers coming to the club in the first place, I don't know if that is true or not. But assuming it is, we are looking at this potentially bonkers situation on Monday: people leaving empty seats in a stand named after the person who facilitated the involvement of the people they are protesting about! Would any United fan be brave enough to go to the game instead and unveil this banner: "10 years of mistakes and its still crap.... Ta-Ra Glazers and Ta-Ra Fergie too". That would have more effect than anything in getting the Glazers to realise the strength of feeling over here. I know it won't happen though.... if someone did take such a banner to the game, there would be Man Utd fans fighting with Man Utd fans, as we have already seen this season. What a shame that it has come to this, at such a famous and historic club.

During the golden era Fergie and Wenger had many battles & I have to admit that more often than not your guy won. But if we consider who has done better in the post-managerial phase, Arsene wins hands down and he has done so by doing nothing at all!

 

[Greck]

I try not to think about it but Fergie didn't just keep quiet he seemed strongly for them. Can't find most of the soundbites, just a couple but there were several disappointing quotes against measures fans were taking.

Harris called on United fans to take direct action against the Glazers by refusing to go to Old Trafford for games, a suggestion ridiculed by Fergie.

"Now that is a great idea," said Fergie, his voice heavy with sarcasm. "And that's come from an intelligent guy, has it? There's no chance of that.

He also went out of his way to rubbish fan ideas to buy the club. Really specific criticisms that weren't simply towing the line. It wasn't just one or two out of context quotes. I think he genuinely had a great relationship with them.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Speaking as an outsider, I find this thread quite amazing. It is full of contradictions & sometimes a poster may even contradict themselves too, look at this exchange as an example:



which drew this response:



Well @romufc that is a bit difficult when on the Tuesday after the pre-season tour ended Ronaldo was at the training ground, but so was Sir Alex - not as I assumed at the time, to persuade Christiano to stay (or maybe go!) but to sort out the new Gill/Robson/Ferguson 'think tank'. You may want the club to move on from him, but he wants to stay involved. Why do the owners let him? because he is useful as he acts as a buffer between them and the fans.

This whole topic (the Gazers and Sir Alex) must be causing so much angst for United fans as exemplified by @Kag who not only criticises Sir Alex twice - for not leaving a decent squad for his successor and for propping up the Glazers, but then in the next sentence he sticks up for the ex-Manager: '.... he is eighty. He should be relaxing and enjoying himself'. The problem is, Sir Alex enjoying himself isn't working on the allotment or travelling the world, it's being involved in Manchester United and he wont ever stop, especially whilst the Glazers remain.

Some people in private, on their keyboards, even go so far as to hold Sir Alex responsible for the Glazers coming to the club in the first place, I don't know if that is true or not. But assuming it is, we are looking at this potentially bonkers situation on Monday: people leaving empty seats in a stand named after the person who facilitated the involvement of the people they are protesting about! Would any United fan be brave enough to go to the game instead and unveil this banner: "10 years of mistakes and its still crap.... Ta-Ra Glazers and Ta-Ra Fergie too". That would have more effect than anything in getting the Glazers to realise the strength of feeling over here. I know it won't happen though.... if someone did take such a banner to the game, there would be Man Utd fans fighting with Man Utd fans, as we have already seen this season. What a shame that it has come to this, at such a famous and historic club.

During the golden era Fergie and Wenger had many battles & I have to admit that more often than not your guy won. But if we consider who has done better in the post-managerial phase, Arsene wins hands down and he has done so by doing nothing at all!

You've been banned how many times before and you keep coming back to spout the same old rubbish? Are you dense? Go away.

I try not to think about it but Fergie didn't just keep quiet he seemed strongly for them. Can't find most of the soundbites, just a couple but there were several disappointing quotes against measures fans were taking.



He also went out of his way to rubbish fan ideas to buy the club. Really specific criticisms that weren't simply towing the line. It wasn't just one or two out of context quotes. I think he genuinely had a great relationship with them.

There's no doubt he got on very well with them. He wrote about it in his book. As others pointed out, SAF respected the fact that the Glazers left all the football matters to him. They weren't owners that would get involved and stop things from happenining like he experienced in some occasions in the past with the PLC. The problem is the Glazers were so distant from the club they didn't have a clue what to do when Fergie and Gill stepped down. I'm not sure what his relationship with the Glazers has been like recently though. It's been reported that the Glazers pushed SAF out the way since his retirement and in my opinion that's because they (and Woodward) wanted to prioritize the commercial side which SAF would never allow to happen if he had power. Football always come first for him.

 

[romufc]

Well @romufc that is a bit difficult when on the Tuesday after the pre-season tour ended Ronaldo was at the training ground, but so was Sir Alex - not as I assumed at the time, to persuade Christiano to stay (or maybe go!) but to sort out the new Gill/Robson/Ferguson 'think tank'. You may want the club to move on from him, but he wants to stay involved. Why do the owners let him? because he is useful as he acts as a buffer between them and the fans.

Im sorry but I dont know how you know it was to persuade Ronaldo? SAF and the directors / board had a meeting planned that day which is why he was there.

Ofcourse Ronaldo would be there too because he is a player.

 

[Tigersam]

All the respect to what he has done for us a manager, his personality was very egotistical and he more often than not hold on to his beliefs and doesn't let go, which is a good quality in certain circumstances. Now modern football has evolved and united are still stuck in the past and club isn't run probably with right appointments and not even a sporting director, when in crisis club reverts back to Fergie for advice, and he has been advising since his retirement, none of which has worked for 10 years. Appointment of Moyes was failure, advising and influencing Ole failed. He should now enjoy at home and not get involved in club business, and if club approaches, ask them to appoint specialists and copy successful teams blueprint.

Totally agree with this.

Im sorry but I dont know how you know it was to persuade Ronaldo? SAF and the directors / board had a meeting planned that day which is why he was there.

Ofcourse Ronaldo would be there too because he is a player.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, but when Ronaldo returned to the squad, after the tour, it coincided with the board meeting you mention, it was initially reported that Sir Alex was there to meet with the striker, but the club quickly quashed those rumours and explained about the board meeting. Fair enough. But a few days later the news came out about a new 'think tank' involving Sir Alex and in my mind this was even worse than a one-off meeting about a specific player. It looked to me as if the club were turning to the advice of SAF to replace the loss of Ralf Rangnick as consultant. It is evidence that, as @Isle says: "when in crisis, the club reverts back to Fergie for advice, and he has been advising since his retirement, none of which has worked for 10 years".

I don't have an agenda against your legendary manager (despite his rivalry with A. Wenger), on the contrary, I am concerned he is harming his own legacy, which would be a shame. Whilst he continues to be involved in the running of United and things continue to get worse, before they get better, it will impact on his reputation and this is already happening. You can see many comments which broadly agree with mine and they are from Manchester United fans themselves.

As regards the op itself, it must be a dilemma for Sir Alex: leaving aside any financial loss, if he speaks out against the Glazers it risks a body of people focusing on how they became involved in the club in the first place. Yet if he stays quiet, it looks to another bunch of people that he is supportive of their ownership and their methods. He can't win either way.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I try not to think about it but Fergie didn't just keep quiet he seemed strongly for them. Can't find most of the soundbites, just a couple but there were several disappointing quotes against measures fans were taking.



He also went out of his way to rubbish fan ideas to buy the club. Really specific criticisms that weren't simply towing the line. It wasn't just one or two out of context quotes. I think he genuinely had a great relationship with them.

Maybe he really thought there was no value in the market

We'll never know

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It would accomplish nothing and he had a great relationship with them.

 

[TenonTen]

Fergie is literally one of the biggest supporters of the Glazers. They have a fantastic relationship. Gary Neville is the biggest Man United person you'll see calling this board out. That's all you'll get and you should support him in that.


A part of Fergie must love how hopeless the club looks without him. This downfall only shows Fergie in a brighter light for the general public(except a few fans who analyse his bond with Glazers and stuff). Generally, no one in the media/fan-media blames Fergie one bit for anything to do with Glazers.

 

[Real Name]

A part of Fergie must love how hopeless the club looks without him.

Come of it.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Fergie is literally one of the biggest supporters of the Glazers. They have a fantastic relationship. Gary Neville is the biggest Man United person you'll see calling this board out. That's all you'll get and you should support him in that.


A part of Fergie must love how hopeless the club looks without him. This downfall only shows Fergie in a brighter light for the general public(except a few fans who analyse his bond with Glazers and stuff). Generally, no one in the media/fan-media blames Fergie one bit for anything to do with Glazers.

Its clear Fergie effectively did a deal with the Glazers whereby they left him to run the football side and they stayed out of the way and he didnt criticise them. His natural dislike of agents and inflated player transfer fees and wages for star players meant he was not going to question their approach. Unfortunately modern clubs are too big for one man and many aspects of the football side dropped off under his later watch, mainly youth side and scouting. City comfortably overtook us there on his watch.

 

[TenonTen]

Come of it.

I mean I'm sure he wants the club to succeed. But say a new manager came in and straight away kept winning big trophies. The current scenario makes Fergie look even better and more legendary.

Hiring Moyes for a club like this is one of the weirdest decisions honestly when Jose, Ancelotti, Klopp and these coaches were realistically available for United and Fergie had a good relationship with these guys.

 

[Real Name]

I mean I'm sure he wants the club to succeed. But say a new manager came in and straight away kept winning big trophies. The current scenario makes Fergie look even better and more legendary.

Hiring Moyes for a club like this is one of the weirdest decisions honestly when Jose, Ancelotti, Klopp and these coaches were realistically available for United and Fergie had a good relationship with these guys.

So you're saying he recommended Moyes just so club looks crapper and him even bigger?

 

[Gordon Godot]

So you're saying he recommended Moyes just so club looks crapper and him even bigger?

I remember GIll telling us the club had learnt from past mistakes (Busby) and had a plan. It turns out that plan was to make exactly the same mistakes, namely allow the outgoing manager to appoint the new manager and then hang around in the background. Fergie should have been nowhere near that decision, but again the Glazers left all football decisions to him. I am sure that is one of reasons Gill left.

 

[Real Name]

I remember GIll telling us the club had learnt from past mistakes (Busby) and had a plan. It turns out that plan was to make exactly the same mistakes, namely allow the outgoing manager to appoint the new manager and then hang around in the background. Fergie should have been nowhere near that decision, but again the Glazers left all football decisions to him. I am sure that is one of reasons Gill left.

That's a different story and a valid opinion. The other is Fergie loving the thought of United being in a miserable situation so his tenure can look even better and him even more famous..
Also I dont think the reason why Gill left was the one you mentioned.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I mean I'm sure he wants the club to succeed. But say a new manager came in and straight away kept winning big trophies. The current scenario makes Fergie look even better and more legendary.

Hiring Moyes for a club like this is one of the weirdest decisions honestly when Jose, Ancelotti, Klopp and these coaches were realistically available for United and Fergie had a good relationship with these guys.

There was only Mourinho and that was never going to happen because Sir Bobby Chartlon couldn't stand him. According to Ancelotti, Fergie talked to him about the United job but Ancelotti had already accepted Madrid's offer. Klopp wasn't looking to leave Dortmund then. It left us with the Moyes option and SAF, Gill and Charlton rated Moyes. The Glazers were instantly sold on him because they saw him as another Fergie. They thought they could leave things to Woodward and Moyes and everything would be business as usual.

 

[Tigersam]

Correct me if I missed it, but when United have a bad time Sky love to find Sir Alex looking glum in the stands, but when they have a great result and play with heart and passion Sky don't bother.... why is that?

 

[needtoknowbasis]

There was only Mourinho and that was never going to happen because Sir Bobby Chartlon couldn't stand him. According to Ancelotti, Fergie talked to him about the United job but Ancelotti had already accepted Madrid's offer. Klopp wasn't looking to leave Dortmund then. It left us with the Moyes option and SAF, Gill and Charlton rated Moyes. The Glazers were instantly sold on him because they saw him as another Fergie. They thought they could leave things to Woodward and Moyes and everything would be business as usual.

the rumors' were that SAF also talked to Pep but he was taking a sabbatical for a year....and it may have turned out better for Moyes if he'd listened to SAF and kept the staff in place that were already there and introduce his own staff as time went on, but Moyes just didn't take the advice and replaced everyone and installed his own staff and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Member 117152]

Look at it this way. Even with the glazers taking over as a problem Fergie won us more trophies in 20 years before than anyone could have ever.

That is worth a down time alone so no hard feelings. Our club will rise again someday. The toxic country owned clubs will hopefully fade into a thing of the past when the market / politics changes I hope, who knows when though.

The down years were worth the glory years for whoever experienced it. Very few clubs in history will ever win that many trophies in 200 years never mind a quarter of a century.

 

[Tommy79]

Speaking as an outsider, I find this thread quite amazing. It is full of contradictions & sometimes a poster may even contradict themselves too, look at this exchange as an example:

During the golden era Fergie and Wenger had many battles & I have to admit that more often than not your guy won. But if we consider who has done better in the post-managerial phase, Arsene wins hands down and he has done so by doing nothing at all!

Just like any person who pays attention to world footie and not just England would with your post. As do you forget the whole fecking world has been laughing at wenger the past 12 months and his BS at trying to feck the world cup even more by adding even weaker nations.

 

[Samid]

Apparently SAF is being used as an advisor and has been sent to scout Kevin fecking Trapp. Can we please move on from the ghost of Fergie already? Let the man enjoy his 80s. Having him influence such key decisions isn’t going to help the club either.

 

[Bastian]

Samid, Fergie is choosing to do this himself. This is probably how he enjoys his 80s. I don't see him as a sentimental type who will be emotionally coerced to do things against his better judgement.

 

[Samid]

Samid, Fergie is choosing to do this himself. This is probably how he enjoys his 80s. I don't see him as a sentimental type who will be emotionally coerced to do things against his better judgement.

His influence is not benefitting the club. He was desperate for Ronaldo to return, that was a sentimental call.

Give him free tickets to all matches in the world for all I care, let him do charity events and be a club ambassador. He just shouldn’t have any influence in the decision making at the club.

 

[Bastian]

His influence is not benefitting the club. He was desperate for Ronaldo to return, that was a sentimental call.

Give him free tickets to all matches in the world for all I care, let him do charity events and be a club ambassador. He just shouldn’t have any influence in the decision making at the club.

Ah, I read you now. Thought you were saying he should be allowed to enjoy retirement rather than saying he shouldn't be involved anymore, former being moralistic while the latter is practical.

I agree. And the best way to not be involved is to speak against continued Glazer ownership

 

[Tigersam]

Just like any person who pays attention to world footie and not just England would with your post. As do you forget the whole fecking world has been laughing at wenger the past 12 months and his BS at trying to feck the world cup even more by adding even weaker nations.

To be fair that's been happening in football for years, I remember when the European Cup was a knock-out competition for the club who won their countries top league, this year Glasgow Rangers are in it whilst Man United are not, that’s not right (talk about adding weaker nations!) But my point stands: Wenger retired and moved onto other things leaving Arsenal & Unai Emery initially and now Arteta to do their work without interference from someone whos time had been and gone. Contrast that with Man United where Sir Alex has recently been given a more important role than that which he already held. (see below).

Ah, I read you now. Thought you were saying he should be allowed to enjoy retirement rather than saying he shouldn't be involved anymore, former being moralistic while the latter is practical.

I agree. And the best way to not be involved is to speak against continued Glazer ownership

Or indeed be part of a Man United 'think tank' with David Gill and Bryan Robson doing who knows what behind the scenes - scouting a new goal keeper, I read last night.

Look at it this way. Even with the glazers taking over as a problem Fergie won us more trophies in 20 years before than anyone could have ever.

That is worth a down time alone so no hard feelings. Our club will rise again someday. The toxic country owned clubs will hopefully fade into a thing of the past when the market / politics changes I hope, who knows when though.

The down years were worth the glory years for whoever experienced it. Very few clubs in history will ever win that many trophies in 200 years never mind a quarter of a century.

I understand this point and it's a fair one to make, but I am guessing you are 40+, 50+ age, yes? Look at it from the point of view of someone born say in 2002, they might remember the 2013 title (aged 10 or 11) but not much else. They will of course be able to relive the glory days via Youtube, but it isn't the same when you already know the score. So a United fan around age 20 now, might not share your view that "The down years were worth the glory years for whoever experienced it..." because they didn't.

As I have said before, this is a never ending argument and its similar to the Ronaldo conundrum. Ronaldo was great for United 20 years ago, but is he harming the club now? Ferguson was great for United 20 years ago but……. that’s all I’m trying to say.

 

[bringbackbebe]

His influence is not benefitting the club. He was desperate for Ronaldo to return, that was a sentimental call.

Give him free tickets to all matches in the world for all I care, let him do charity events and be a club ambassador. He just shouldn’t have any influence in the decision making at the club.

When the opportunity presented itself, so was 99.95% of the CAF members who peed their pants with the idea of Ronaldo going to City. Debatable if Ronaldo alone is a cause for our poor performance, but the guy did get 24 goals. Our inability to manage his ego isn't SAF's fault.

 

[DanClancy]

Fergie is just pure greedy unfortunately, puts his pocket first.

 

[Tigersam]

Fergie is just pure greedy unfortunately, puts his pocket first.

This may be part of it or is it his love for the club and its history and his part in that? I say this because he probably could have made a similar amount of money outside of Old Trafford - something with UEFA maybe - plus after-dinner speaking, motivational talks, books about how to be a winner, that sort of thing. He could have devoted more time to horse racing and made money that way too.

Sky would have paid him a fortune to sit next to Roy Keane and discuss (argue) at important matches, I'd pay to see that!

 

[wolvored]

I try not to think about it but Fergie didn't just keep quiet he seemed strongly for them. Can't find most of the soundbites, just a couple but there were several disappointing quotes against measures fans were taking.



He also went out of his way to rubbish fan ideas to buy the club. Really specific criticisms that weren't simply towing the line. It wasn't just one or two out of context quotes. I think he genuinely had a great relationship with them.

Hes got a great relationship as they are still paying him millions of pounds a week to do virtually feck all. I wonder if he would be supporting them if they had cut him loose when he retired, like Wenger and Arsenal. Didnt he say he was retireing to spend more time with his wife?

 

[Tigersam]

Hes got a great relationship as they are still paying him millions of pounds a week to do virtually feck all. I wonder if he would be supporting them if they had cut him loose when he retired, like Wenger and Arsenal. Didnt he say he was retireing to spend more time with his wife?

Well, its not quite millions a week. I have heard various figures for the Associate Director/Ambassadorial role ranging from 1m a year to 4m a year. Which isn't really that much for a club who could be spending 200-300 million Euros in this transfer window. Although, as I have said previously, if, as most people agree, that Ronaldo returned due to a call from SAF, then one could put the £450,000 per week against his name and that is a significant sum over the two years. But the Glazers obviously think having Ronaldo at the club is a positive for commercial reasons, otherwise I doubt they would have agreed to Sir Alex taking more responsibility - this advisory role - if they weren't happy with his work behind the scenes previously for example on Ronaldo's return.

It would be interesting to know if the Gill/Robson/Ferguson 'think tank' is just an ad hoc arrangement or is that involving remuneration too, is Bryan Robson now on the payroll? I know other clubs often reward their greats from yesteryear with some sort of meet and greet type of job - appearances at pre-game meals for those people who can pay for expensive match day packages, that sort of thing. But Manchester United have certainly taken this sort of thing to a next level.

You are right about the Wenger comparison, I have made that myself on here and got grief for doing so, but I accept that, it is a Man United fan site after all & I'm just a guest here.

 

[wolvored]

Well, its not quite millions a week. I have heard various figures for the Associate Director/Ambassadorial role ranging from 1m a year to 4m a year. Which isn't really that much for a club who could be spending 200-300 million Euros in this transfer window. Although, as I have said previously, if, as most people agree, that Ronaldo returned due to a call from SAF, then one could put the £450,000 per week against his name and that is a significant sum over the two years. But the Glazers obviously think having Ronaldo at the club is a positive for commercial reasons, otherwise I doubt they would have agreed to Sir Alex taking more responsibility - this advisory role - if they weren't happy with his work behind the scenes previously for example on Ronaldo's return.

It would be interesting to know if the Gill/Robson/Ferguson 'think tank' is just an ad hoc arrangement or is that involving remuneration too, is Bryan Robson now on the payroll? I know other clubs often reward their greats from yesteryear with some sort of meet and greet type of job - appearances at pre-game meals for those people who can pay for expensive match day packages, that sort of thing. But Manchester United have certainly taken this sort of thing to a next level.

You are right about the Wenger comparison, I have made that myself on here and got grief for doing so, but I accept that, it is a Man United fan site after all & I'm just a guest here.

Sorry meant a year.