Why the reluctance to sign a defensive midfielder?

If De Jong's playing the 6, you don't necessarily need a screening DM in the mould of Matic.

You should play with 2 high intensity, box to box midfielders. We already have one in Fred, so we need another who easily covers 10km a game. McTominays too cumbersome to play that role.

I'd like a midfield set up such as

------- De Jong
---CM ----- Fred

Around 65 minutes, swap the two CMs for another pair of high intensity midfielders who can keep up the work rate for the last 25 minutes of the game. I think VDB can play that role and maybe Eriksen?
 
glazed said:
Both true enough in any sane world. But it doesn't make either bad players and this isn't a sane world. Worth is a bit meaningless in this context. My three bedroom end of terrace isn't worth a million quid but I could probably get that much for it. Worth is defined by willing buyers, however stupid they are.
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And we shouldn't repeat the same stupid mistake we made with Maguire. Let someone else make that stupid mistake or else wait, and persuade him to run his contract down.
 
You don't need a defensive midfielder, you need someone good at tactical fouls - that is the City / Liverpool blueprint.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
You don't need a defensive midfielder, you need someone good at tactical fouls - that is the City / Liverpool blueprint.
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That wouldn't work for us. Our own fanbase would be running the campaign to get our players punished for it.
 
Skills said:
Don't you remember the witch-hunt against Ashley Young's diving? That was led by our own fans when were actually successful.
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That was during a period Young was quite disliked by the fanbase. There wasn't the same outrage directed at a certain young Portuguese winger when he first arrived. Tactical fouling is part of the modern game unfortunately and something Man Utd need to get up to date with.
 
Skills said:
If De Jong's playing the 6, you don't necessarily need a screening DM in the mould of Matic.

You should play with 2 high intensity, box to box midfielders. We already have one in Fred, so we need another who easily covers 10km a game. McTominays too cumbersome to play that role.

I'd like a midfield set up such as

------- De Jong
---CM ----- Fred

Around 65 minutes, swap the two CMs for another pair of high intensity midfielders who can keep up the work rate for the last 25 minutes of the game. I think VDB can play that role and maybe Eriksen?
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yeah Eriksen would be my #1 choice there, then VDB #2. McTominay #3 which is sad but I don't trust Bruno at all as an 8. I think you would see a better player in McTominay in a box to box role focusing on helping the attack.
 
joedirt87 said:
yeah Eriksen would be my #1 choice there, then VDB #2. McTominay #3 which is sad but I don't trust Bruno at all as an 8.
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I'd like Bruno as a CF. I think that's the only place to really accommodate him.
 
Skills said:
I'd like Bruno as a CF. I think that's the only place to really accommodate him.
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He can be second striker or AM as well. CM is a possibility as long as he has 2 other CMs with good defensive attributes alongside him. Based on his explosive style of playing, he can also do well as a inverted forward in a 4-3-3.
 
FDJ will most likely play as the no.6 in Ten Hag's system. I didn't watch Ajax regularly at the time but the consensus on him is that the no.6 role is his best and most effective position.
 
Skills said:
And we shouldn't repeat the same stupid mistake we made with Maguire. Let someone else make that stupid mistake or else wait, and persuade him to run his contract down.
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Probably right. Though might mean he goes to Chelsea and we are being penny wise and pound foolish.
 
With De Jong you don't need a dedicated holder, I look at how the Verratti/Matuidi partnership worked at PSG and I think the same would work for us, where De Jong will often be deepest when we have the ball so he can receive it from the back 4, but when out of possession the other CM will be deeper. We basically just need a positionally intelligent, technically sound ball winning midfielder, unfortunately De Jong will likely be forced to play with one of our positionally inept, technically average ball winning midfielders.
 
Maybe ETH is an insane xenophobe who only signs Dutch players but nobody noticed before now?
 
#07 said:
I agree with you that, clearly, Rice is the one people at the club love. However, what if our lack of a proper screening midfielder sees us finish 6th again next year? What if Chelsea compete for trophies, Kante finally moves on and Chelsea are like: 'Hey Declan, come back to your boyhood club. Kante's gone now and we're fighting for Champions League unlike Man Utd?'

Sometimes the hierarchy at Man Utd behaves like this is 2002 not 2022. Like we can just put markers down with players and come back to them. There seems to be little acknowledgement that the last 10 years has seen us become less and less attractive to players.

We may well be planning to go for Rice next year. However, in the meantime, if we don't do well enough to be attractive to him this year, we might not get him. Getting a proper defensive midfielder, even a cheap one who has the right instincts (unlike McTominay and Fred who wanna go chasing the ball), could be the difference between looking like a club on the way up or down. I just don't understand how the hierarchy at United doesn't see that.
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Yeah totally agree this CDM doesn't need to cost the earth just be able to screen the back four and also pick a pass as well
 
SadlerMUFC said:
If Bruno is playing as a #8 then we might as well just give up now. Bruno is NOT a midfielder. The only place I want to see him is either in the #7 or #11
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Ok.

I mean it’s a role he’s played throughout his career but again, ok.
 
Trigg said:
Ok.

I mean it’s a role he’s played throughout his career but again, ok.
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Just because a player has played there it doesn't mean they are good at it. Bruno is a threat offensively. His numbers speak for them self. But he's also too careless with the ball. So rather than play him in the midfield, I'd rather see him in a more offensive position. I'd play him at either the #7 or #11. If he has a good run there, I bet he puts up even more goals and assists. A front 3 of Bruno, CR7 and Sancho could be amazing...
 
With the incomings we have 3 CM to fight for 2 positions and 4 left backs fighting for 1. Why not address the unbalance of the squad? I don’t get it..
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Just because a player has played there it doesn't mean they are good at it. Bruno is a threat offensively. His numbers speak for them self. But he's also too careless with the ball. So rather than play him in the midfield, I'd rather see him in a more offensive position. I'd play him at either the #7 or #11. If he has a good run there, I bet he puts up even more goals and assists. A front 3 of Bruno, CR7 and Sancho could be amazing...
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Good enough for Man Utd to buy him.
 
Maybe United are confident that a limited player like McT can cover the holding midfielder role for this year.
 
Trigg said:
Ok.

I mean it’s a role he’s played throughout his career but again, ok.
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And he shined closer to goal. The whole "Bruno can be a great #8" is very unlikely in my eyes. I mean, we have seen it, Bruno is an instinctive footballer, he doesn't have the awareness when to push and when to reserved. He also isn't great at carrying and the supposedly workrate doesn't really end in a net benefit because he is as weak as he is.

Against the smaller teams, you certainly can get away with him as one of two 8s in front of a 6. But apart from that, it is a desaster waiting to happen. We have seen it, when he played next to Pogba. We abandoned Midfield all together.

SadlerMUFC said:
Just because a player has played there it doesn't mean they are good at it. Bruno is a threat offensively. His numbers speak for them self. But he's also too careless with the ball. So rather than play him in the midfield, I'd rather see him in a more offensive position. I'd play him at either the #7 or #11. If he has a good run there, I bet he puts up even more goals and assists. A front 3 of Bruno, CR7 and Sancho could be amazing...
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Completely agree with the bolded part. Get him as close to the opposition goal as possible and try to relieve him of defensive responsibilities and he will bring the output. If that works when we have Ronaldo on board who has mostly the same proposition needs to be seen.

A front 3 of Bruno, CR7 and Sancho lacks a bit of offensive workrate. In terms of working for others instead of trying to be the main person.
 
Christ knows. Lack of options will be bandied around, but City have signed Phillips and Spurs have signed Bissouma, so other clubs are clearly interested in investing here. Why we won’t is beyond me.
 
Kag said:
Christ knows. Lack of options will be bandied around, but City have signed Phillips and Spurs have signed Bissouma, so other clubs are clearly interested in investing here. Why we won’t is beyond me.
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I don't agree with the idea but clearly he wants to try the existing options there first even though none are proper DM's
 
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There may well be a belief within the club that with proper coaching that McTominay can be turned into a CDM. And that Garner, if given the chance, can do the job.
 
lex talionis said:
There may well be a belief within the club that with proper coaching that McTominay can be turned into a CDM. And that Garner, if given the chance, can do the job.
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Yeah that can only be the reason there are no links to any pure CDM's at all, however still worry about none in the whole squad.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Martinez could play in DM. Kante could be another possibility. And of course it could also be Sangare, best DM in Dutch league.
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Think Kante stuff was if we couldn't get De Jong, in regards to Sangare there hasn't been much noise at all but could change.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah that can only be the reason there are no links to any pure CDM's at all, however still worry about none in the whole squad.
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It worries me as well. I don't see any potential in McTominay at all, but giving Garner a proper chance is not irrational.
 
I fear we may end up in the pogba zone with de jong, constantly talking about our need for a dm to unlock his abilities.

At barca one of the issues raises by fans is his runs forward often left the team open defensively when playing at the vase of midfield, but given that's one of his strengths you wouldn't want to curtail it
 
NZT-One said:
And he shined closer to goal. The whole "Bruno can be a great #8" is very unlikely in my eyes. I mean, we have seen it, Bruno is an instinctive footballer, he doesn't have the awareness when to push and when to reserved. He also isn't great at carrying and the supposedly workrate doesn't really end in a net benefit because he is as weak as he is.

Against the smaller teams, you certainly can get away with him as one of two 8s in front of a 6. But apart from that, it is a desaster waiting to happen. We have seen it, when he played next to Pogba. We abandoned Midfield all together.


Completely agree with the bolded part. Get him as close to the opposition goal as possible and try to relieve him of defensive responsibilities and he will bring the output. If that works when we have Ronaldo on board who has mostly the same proposition needs to be seen.

A front 3 of Bruno, CR7 and Sancho lacks a bit of offensive workrate. In terms of working for others instead of trying to be the main person.
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In Bruno, we've signed a player who should be a 10. Should play where Cantona did, and where Mata should have played when we signed him. He doesn't fit into a 4-3-3 or variation of without unbalancing the team. Perhaps we should start looking at a formation that gets the best out of the players we have. To me, that involves Bruno playing centrally, with license to roam, behind a striker.
 
or a top central midfielder in fact. the midfield has been neglected for too long.
 
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