Why is everyone so certain that DDG will be a starter under ETH?

Can't for the life of me understand when people look at our squad they think the keeper is the main most teething issue :lol:



If Ten Hag doesn't fancy him, he will make the change once he gets the rest sitting right, which won't be any time soon, blowing small fortune on a keeper.
 
It's also worth pointing out that it's possible, according to reports in the media, that Dean is part of the bad apples group. He got next to no attention from RR either. So let's first see if he is even part of the squad next year let alone challenge DDG.
 
I think he'll be replaced in time.. he's far too capable of a wobbly patch, and his distribution isn't good enough to play modern football, but he's probably the least of our worries atm, the defence needs sorting properly first
 
jackal&hyde said:
It's also worth pointing out that it's possible, according to reports in the media, that Dean is part of the bad apples group. He got next to no attention from RR either. So let's first see if he is even part of the squad next year let alone challenge DDG.
Click to expand...

Aye, this is another factor. If addressing the dressing room and leaking culture is anything of a priority then Henderson is obviously far more a problem on that front than De Gea.
 
Revan said:
More like we never learned how good he is, mostly cause he is not that good. Even Romero was miles better.
Click to expand...
I don't think Romero was better than De Gea let alone miles better and I say that as somebody who doesn't even Rate De Gea , but fact of the matter is Dea Gea is just a poor keeper lacking in fundamentals who just never evolved anything beyond being a great shot stopper .
 
Context: the team is very poor and the keeper has has a mildly better season than expected.

comment: the keeper is the least of the new managers problems
 
jackal&hyde said:
It's also worth pointing out that it's possible, according to reports in the media, that Dean is part of the bad apples group. He got next to no attention from RR either. So let's first see if he is even part of the squad next year let alone challenge DDG.
Click to expand...
Yep good point. If it weren’t for this I actually think ETH might give both a chance but I get the impression Henderson will be moved on this summer.
 
LARulz said:
How is De Gea being blamed for Maguire and co not knowing which way is up? Their positional play, getting dribble passed and not tracking their men has nothing to do with if De Gea comes off his line or can pass a ball. We don't need Allison or Ederson in goal to realise where the main problems in the team are and need addressing

We are losing a lot of players this summer, mostly squad players, but we were already lacking in quality first reamers. Getting rid of De Gea right now makes no sense
Click to expand...

He is not being blamed for other people's mistakes.

But what a Goalkeeper is, is the last defender, the last footballer.

His game as a last footballer is way too simple, it effects the players in front of him.

Just as Rashford gets blamed for not running backwards & helping his team mates - De gea should get blamed for not running forwards and what? Not helping his team mates.
 
Because ETH is not going to spend 50 million on a GK when we need a DM, CB, LB, CF, RW (and some would argue RB, MF)

You're not getting a better GK dan Dave for less. Smartest thing to do would be to replace Henderson with an understudy that doesn't mind being no 2.

Long term it's obvious he's not the profile of GK that we need, but even Van Gaal stuck by Dave and he's obsessed with GK distribution.

If this is a Henderson debate :lol:
He's out the door lads. I hope he takes his fanboys with him.
 
It's going to be very difficult to get De Gea off the books at his age, with his inconsistency and most importantly his wages.

I therefore think it's likely Henderson will want to leave regardless if De Gea is at the club - he's played well in the past for a string of games and still ending up bench-warming so I think he'll want to go somewhere without that level of competition for the #1 shirt.

That would then mean United need to spend money on a new 1st choice keeper and there are greater priorities right now it seems, so I think De Gea starts for 1 more year at least.
 
gajender said:
I don't think Romero was better than De Gea let alone miles better and I say that as somebody who doesn't even Rate De Gea , but fact of the matter is Dea Gea is just a poor keeper lacking in fundamentals who just never evolved anything beyond being a great shot stopper .
Click to expand...
Better than Henderson, not de Gea.
 
VanDeBank said:
If this is a Henderson debate :lol:
He's out the door lads. I hope he takes his fanboys with him.
Click to expand...
Does Henderson even have fanboys?

I see De Gea having fanboys (plenty still seem to think he's one of the best around or that the only issue with him is distribution), while most others think that Henderson probably isn't good enough either but he'll be better in the short-term until we can focus on a new keeper. Hardly what I'd class as a 'fanboy'.
 
flappyjay said:
That would mean Henderson has Edersons on the ball abilities. I remember him being to eager to sweep and being slightly better than de Gea at passing. Same with his commanding of the box he tries but he is not good at it either. Fair to him trying to excel at things de Gea is poor at.
Click to expand...
Hes no Ederson but he was mountains better than DDG at all that stuff.
 
I think DDG will get a season or 2 - basically until our squad is in a much better shape before we splurge on a GK. Similar to how Klopp had a huge turnaround of players before finally spending big on Allisson and VVD. I know he also tried to address it with cheaper solutions like Karius and that turned out chaotic.

We simply have too many other priorities to address (which is mind boggling when you think of all the money we've spent) and we're in a real hole with the wages DDG is on. No one will be able to sign him.
 
Caesar2290 said:
On the interesting things I noticed on the caf recently is that most people predict that DDG will be the starting GK under ETH. I don't understand this logic. You either haven't watched ETH's teams or you vastly overstate DDG's abilities.

ETH's ideal keeper is someone who can comfortably play in the high line. He is there to initiate attacks and bypass the press via his distribution. He has to be proactive and sweep the balls played behind the high line in order to ease off the pressure on the defense.

DDG does not have a single attribute mentioned above. Not only is he a reactive GK that is glued to his line all the time, but his distribution is shocking. The only redeeming feature are his insane reflexes which in a dysfunctional team like ours make him stand out more than he should.

But if you've followed ETH, he religiously prefers goalkeepers with a better distribution over reflexes. Take Pasaveer as an example: he signed a 39 year old GK simply because of his distribution. Reflex wise he left a lot to be desired. Just look at that 2-2 vs Benfica. Same thing with Onana: he was prioritized due to him matching the above description, despite always having an error in him.

Personally I think barring a miracle DDG will warm the bench starting next season and Henderson will be our starting GK as he seem to posses some of the attributes I mentioned above.
Click to expand...
I hope you are right. I said elsewhere on the forum that one of ETH’s first tasks should be assuring Henderson of a real opportunity next season, because De Gea will not cut it. If Henderson can’t do it either, then we enter the transfer market. If Henderson delivers, then he’s the man.
 
MadDogg said:
Does Henderson even have fanboys?

I see De Gea having fanboys (plenty still seem to think he's one of the best around or that the only issue with him is distribution), while most others think that Henderson probably isn't good enough either but he'll be better in the short-term until we can focus on a new keeper. Hardly what I'd class as a 'fanboy'.
Click to expand...
The fan boys are rooted to supporting their man.

But hopefully we can evolve as a team and Erik ten Hag utilises the Luis Enrique formula.
 
Jev said:
De Gea's distribution is not "shocking". I don't know when this myth originated but it's nonsense.

He was known for being good with the ball at his feet back in the day and is a relatively precise passer who is calm when in possession. He also finds a decent balance between when to kick long and when to pass short.

People conflate things. His general passiveness and unwillingness to come out of his area are confused with poor distribution. People also often fail to recognise that it's harder for DDG to pass it out than it is for other keepers because there are so few players moving around and finding space.

He doesn't have that greatest distribution in the world but it's not nearly the problem area some are making it out to be.
Click to expand...
He’s 20th choice keeper for Spain on account of his terrible distribution. I suppose Spain aren’t coached too well in possession for Dave’s talents to shine either.
 
Jev said:
People conflate things. His general passiveness and unwillingness to come out of his area are confused with poor distribution. People also often fail to recognise that it's harder for DDG to pass it out than it is for other keepers because there are so few players moving around and finding space.

He doesn't have that greatest distribution in the world but it's not nearly the problem area some are making it out to be.
Click to expand...

Don't think anyone can confuse those two things. He's just generally passive and refuses to come and collect balls in the air a few feet from him. That's a hell of a lot different than not being able to pick a pass.

On his distribution, it's just shocking. But more importantly, he doesn't want to drop out to the sides and away from the goal to look for the ball. That's what will be most important, he has to want it and has to be comfortable playing one and two touch round his goal area. He really isn't very good at that at all, which is why he prefers to shank it out for a throw rather that take an extra touch and find a pass.

Teams and players know that all they have to do is put a tiny bit of pressure on him and he'll panic and give the ball away. Even if you forget all that stuff about sweeping and being more proactive. Central to this style ETH has being succesful is being able to use the keeper in possession to switch the play and all that stuff. DDG just doesn't cut it, it's why he has barely played for Spain in 3 years, he was even being kept out by Kepa at one stage.
 
Because his choices are Ddg/Henderson or heaton. No way they will waste money on a gk this window!
 
MadDogg said:
Does Henderson even have fanboys?

I see De Gea having fanboys (plenty still seem to think he's one of the best around or that the only issue with him is distribution), while most others think that Henderson probably isn't good enough either but he'll be better in the short-term until we can focus on a new keeper. Hardly what I'd class as a 'fanboy'.
Click to expand...

Nice appeal to the majority. It's not even true. Most think Dave is better than Hendo, an opinion I share.
It's fine if you're in the minority. It doesn't make your opinion any less valid.

Regardless, Hendo is a moaning leaking cnut that needs be moved on.

Adnan said:
The fan boys are rooted to supporting their man.

But hopefully we can evolve as a team and Erik ten Hag utilises the Luis Enrique formula.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Enrique first priority would be to get calamities such as Telles @ LB, Maguire @ CB and McTominay @ DM as far away from the starting lineup as possible.
Then he might want to add a player that prefers to play on the right wing and isn't 34. And I'm guessing he'd also like more than one (38y old) CF.

Only then would he look at the GK situation, which is year 2 at the earliest. What he did at Spain is irrelevant, 'cause they have good players on other positions. The disparity between Busquets and McTominay as a DMs infinitely greater than that between DDG and Unai Simon.
 
The reason I'm confident De Gea will be number 1 next season is nothing to do with his ability nor ETHs playing style.

The reasons De Gea will be number 1 next season are:
  • Experience - We have at least 10 players leaving the squad this summer. This includes a lot of experienced players. Losing another experienced player from the dressing room or having him there generally being in a foul mood because hes been dropped wont help ten Hag start his reign with the positive energy he's looking for
  • Priorities - We need at least 4 signings this summer. To replace the 10 we're likely to lose we need signings all over the squad. As Ralf has clearly stated, goalkeeper would be the lowest priority on the list of positions that need transfers.
  • Options - There arent any obvious replacements right now. There aren't currently any goalkeepers on the market who are available enough, cheap enough or outstandingly good enough to warrant us spending money on this summer. If an Ederson or Alisson level GK has a massive falling out at their clubs then this might change.
  • Cost - De Gea earns an extraordinary wage at Manchester United. Nobody else will pay David De Gea 375k a week - meaning we cannot sell him, we cannot loan him and leaving him on the bench would cause nothing but resentment in him and all the players who are playing well and earn less than he does.

So whilst I agree that De Gea isnt ideally suited to ten Hags playing style, he isnt the biggest problem ten hag has to solve in his first window. Three years from now when Dave has signed a new deal on a lower wage and other areas of the squad have been sorted he will be replaced. But I can't see that happening this summer.
 
CM10 said:
The amount of times he kicks the ball into touch when the ball is played back to him would suggest otherwise. I don't remember him being this bad with the ball at his feet when Van Gaal was here (could just be bad memory) but I would hope Ten Hag could coach him to be a bit better in this regard.

Still, De Gea will need replacing eventually. It's no coincidence that he wasn't even able to make the last Spain squad. Enrique wants keepers who suit possession style football and if he's choosing players like Robert Sanchez and David Raya over De Gea, that's a huge indication that he's not up to task.
Click to expand...
Maybe it’s because you watch Man United more than other teams. He’s not exceptional and not horrible at distribution. He’s ok and might improve when he’s asked to certain things. Least of our worries.
 
VanDeBank said:
Nice appeal to the majority. It's not even true. Most think Dave is better than Hendo, an opinion I share.
It's fine if you're in the minority. It doesn't make your opinion any less valid.

Regardless, Hendo is a moaning leaking cnut that needs be moved on.


Pretty sure Enrique first priority would be to get calamities such as Telles @ LB, Maguire @ CB and McTominay @ DM as far away from the starting lineup as possible.
Then he might want to add a player that prefers to play on the right wing and isn't 34. And I'm guessing he'd also like more than one (38y old) CF.

Only then would he look at the GK situation, which is year 2 at the earliest. What he did at Spain is irrelevant, 'cause they have good players on other positions. The disparity between Busquets and McTominay as a DMs infinitely greater than that between DDG and Unai Simon.
Click to expand...
The first priority should be how can I implement my style of play, so I can effectively play in the opponents half. And that's the reason de Gea has hardly featured for Luis Enrique.
 
Adnan said:
The first priority should be how can I implement my style of play, so I can effectively play in the opponents half. And that's the reason de Gea has hardly featured for Luis Enrique.
Click to expand...
If Enrique had a 5th division footballer at DM and De Gea, he'd worry about the DM first.

Van Gaal is obsessed with GK distribution and he stuck by De Gea. We did effectively play in the opponent's half, but with Michael Fecking Carrick.

The reason Dave isn't first choice is because Spain have good alternatives, and the dilemma of which shite to replace first doesn't exist in national team football.

Anyone that would have a choice between De Gea and Busquets OR Unai SImon and McTominay (as a DM) that would choose the latter needs to give their head a wobble.
 
VP89 said:
LVG didn't have a second choice like Henderson though. I think a lot of us may have forgotten how good he is. Hes not got the cat like reflexes of DDG but his distribution is mountains better. Assuming hes not one of the leaks and bad apples of course, I would be surprised if ETH didn't look at him.

That said I guess DDG is a very good shot stopper that it may trump everything else.
Click to expand...
What LvG did have was a top class goalkeeping coach, who managed to get DeGea to improve in just about every area where he was weak.

All the good he achieved was undone by Jose, sadly. De Gea is seven years older now; maybe he’s now so set in his ways he won’t change. I don’t think people should completely write off the chance that he might.

Regarding Dean’s distribution, I think the main reason it’s better is because he seems to demand defenders to make themselves available for the ball, whereas Dave assumes they won’t and hoofs it long by default. Again, there’s some hope that bad habits aren’t so deeply ingrained that they can’t be eliminated.
 
Because he is a far better goalkeeper than Henderson.
 
VanDeBank said:
Nice appeal to the majority. It's not even true. Most think Dave is better than Hendo, an opinion I share.
It's fine if you're in the minority. It doesn't make your opinion any less valid.

Regardless, Hendo is a moaning leaking cnut that needs be moved on.
Click to expand...
I mis-worded that. By 'others' I meant specifically the people who you were classing as Henderson 'fanboys', not 'most others' as in everyone that wasn't a De Gea 'fanboy'. I was just stating that only one of them seem to have actual fanboys.

The leaking thing is the aspect where if the club itself think it's true then yeah feck him off. But I'm not going to hold an internet rumour against him.
 
VP89 said:
LVG didn't have a second choice like Henderson though. I think a lot of us may have forgotten how good he is. Hes not got the cat like reflexes of DDG but his distribution is mountains better. Assuming hes not one of the leaks and bad apples of course, I would be surprised if ETH didn't look at him.

That said I guess DDG is a very good shot stopper that it may trump everything else.
Click to expand...

We had Romero who was very good GK.
 
VanDeBank said:
If Enrique had a 5th division footballer at DM and De Gea, he'd worry about the DM first.

Van Gaal is obsessed with GK distribution and he stuck by De Gea. We did effectively play in the opponent's half, but with Michael Fecking Carrick.

The reason Dave isn't first choice is because Spain have good alternatives, and the dilemma of which shite to replace first doesn't exist in national team football.

Anyone that would have a choice between De Gea and Busquets OR Unai SImon and McTominay (as a DM) that would choose the latter needs to give their head a wobble.
Click to expand...
De Gea’s distribution was a lot better under LvG than it is now.

If he’s unable to improve the long range stuff, we need defenders who demand the ball off of him rather than run away and hide from it. ETH is used to having defenders like Blind, so he won’t put up with that.
 
VanDeBank said:
If Enrique had a 5th division footballer at DM and De Gea, he'd worry about the DM first.

Van Gaal is obsessed with GK distribution and he stuck by De Gea. We did effectively play in the opponent's half, but with Michael Fecking Carrick.

The reason Dave isn't first choice is because Spain have good alternatives, and the dilemma of which shite to replace first doesn't exist in national team football.

Anyone that would have a choice between De Gea and Busquets OR Unai SImon and McTominay (as a DM) that would choose the latter needs to give their head a wobble.
Click to expand...
Luis Enrique would still play the Brentford keeper ahead of the line keeper, because the aim is to play in the opponent's half.

Van Gaal played low /mid block football without implementing a coordinated pressing game. And he did that with a overly cautious approach, which bored most to death. He definitely didn't play in the opponent's half.

We're going to sign a DM and 3 three other players imo, So Luis Enrique would have money to spend and he'd have the option of two alternative keepers to de Gea that are already at the club. To Luis Enrique de Gea isn't good enough, and he even called for a u19 keeper when one of his regular keepers was in doubt due to injury but not de Gea.
 
Last edited:
Whats the situation with the youth goalies? Is there a good one who plays the way TH likes and could be fasttracked into the first team? TH is known for giving youth a chance.
 
roonster09 said:
We had Romero who was very good GK.
Click to expand...
Yeah he was and there was a legitimate discussion for giving him a run when DDG was poor.

But in the case of Henderson I wonder if his strengths in distribution is more valued by a manager like ETH than Ole or Jose, and whether that may prove decisive.

I actually resign to losing posession every time I see DDG punt the ball.
 
Goalkeeping is the least of our problems. And DDG’s distribution is underrated IMO. Either way, if Ten Hag doesn’t fancy DDG he should fancy Henderson since Ajax were linked to him sometime last year. Basically it’s not going to be a problem for us.
 
Henderson becoming Man United GK next season is just day dreaming. He's not good enough for this role and no manager in the world will start him ahead of De Gea.
 
Adnan said:
Luis Enrique would still play the Brentford keeper ahead of the line keeper, because the aim is to play in the opponents half.

Van Gaal played low /mid block football without implementing a coordinated pressing game. And he did that with a overly cautious approach, which bored most to death. He definitely didn't play in the opponents half.

We're going to sign a DM and 3 three other players imo, So Luis Enrique would have money to spend and he'd have the option of two alternative keepers to de Gea that are already at the club. To Luis Enrique de Gea isn't good enough, and he even called for a u19 keeper when one of his regular keepers was in doubt due to injury but not de Gea.
Click to expand...
You're mispresenting the Spain NT situation to fit your agenda.

It was reported Enrique feared Dave's ego was too big to sit on the bench.
And this isn't unheard of with regards to NT GKs. De Boer told CIllessen to feck off because he feared he would moan being no 2. Michels (or was it Happel?) had done the same.

We don't have Brentford's keeper, and getting him would still not be Enrique's priority if he'd inherit Telles, Maguire and McTominay as starters.

And you're also misrembering LVG's style of play. Mid/low block out of possession yes. But we dominated possession and struggled to break down low blocks. That was what made LVG era so boring.
 
I'm not certain he'll be a starter at all. Initially sure, but I can't see him lasting long-term under this kind of manager.

He's not suited to a high line at all and as has been said ad nauseum apart from shot-stopping he's way off elite level at everything else.
 
Ralf Rangnick coming out and saying that Goalkeeper is the only position that you don't need to strengthen makes me seriously doubt his judgement on modern football.

De Gea is an all time great of Man United and the Premier League, there is no doubt about that. But he's much more of an old-fashioned shot-stopper than a modern day 'sweeper-keeper'.

Of all the other traditional top 6 teams, their goalkeeper's 'sweeping actions' for this season are all amongst the top 10 (Alisson 25, Lloris 22, Ramsdale 20, Ederson 17, Mendy 15).

De Gea is 16th on 6.

Until this season, I hadn't really seen what a difference having a modern 'sweeper-keeper' could make. At the start of this season, my team Wolves got rid of Portugal's legendary goalkeeper Rui Patricio and replaced him with an uncapped Portuguese player in Jose Sa. Believe me, this didn't go down very well at all at the time.

Patricio was another goalkeeper in that old-fashioned shot-stopper mould. He was great for us, but there was a stat to show that he was the goalkeeper that left his line the fewest times in the Premier League during his time here. Ideal for Nuno's tactics of sitting in and counter-attacking, but less suited to a team trying to push higher up the pitch.

Sa changed this, how wrong we all were about him!

For the early part of the season, Sa's sweeping from goalkeeper transformed how we had been playing under Nuno and pushed us much further up the pitch. He even got an assist with his fast kicked passes. Yes, we have other issues at the moment with our forward players, but goalkeeper is far from a problem for us. Sa is a modern, sweeper-keeper who has been taking many plaudits this season for how he has been performing. He is top for 'goalkeeper sweeping actions' with 30 for this season so far.

As great as De Gea has been for you over the years, I think his goalkeeping style might be holding you back a bit now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.