Why?
When ETH has a system that relies on the keeper being good on the ball and being comfortable leaving his goal line.
If he keeps playing DDG, it'll never work.
Why is everyone so certain that DDG will be a starter under ETH?
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Why?
When ETH has a system that relies on the keeper being good on the ball and being comfortable leaving his goal line.
If he keeps playing DDG, it'll never work.
It doesn't make sense that De Gea will start because he's our best goalkeeper?
So what is your solution? In regards to DDG people are yelling at the clouds instead of giving actual solutions that are realistic. And play Henderson is not a solution, thats a sideways upgrade at best.
Which area of the team should we neglect in order for us to upgrade De Gea right now? Midfield? Defense? Attack?
I'd play Henderson.
He's more rounded and is average, but has already proved that even an average all rounder is better for the team as a whole than the one trick pony DDG.
Because DDG is much better than Onana
I can't see anybody taking De Gea.
So the question is will Ten Hag play Henderson ahead of him because he can't sign a goalie and still keep De Gea. We don't have City money to just buy a top goalie and bench somebody on 375k.
I would actually say De Gea is a better distributor than Henderson and that coupled with him being a better general keeper makes the question moot.
Just tell him to come off his line and sweep every now and again. It's not that difficult.
Again his distribution isn't that bad. He can find a full back with a 40 yard pass and Alisson and Ederson are hardly fantastic on the ball.
So the question is will Ten Hag play Henderson ahead of him because he can't sign a goalie and still keep De Gea. We don't have City money to just buy a top goalie and bench somebody on 375k.
I would actually say De Gea is a better distributor than Henderson and that coupled with him being a better general keeper makes the question moot.
Just tell him to come off his line and sweep every now and again. It's not that difficult.
Again his distribution isn't that bad. He can find a full back with a 40 yard pass and Alisson and Ederson are hardly fantastic on the ball.
Unless Henderson is sold we arent looking for a new no2 in this window. De Gea will start as no1. One of the best keepers in the league. We're lucky to have him. Him not being a sweeper keeper as ETH apparently prefers is a different matter.
Wan Disaster isn't our 'best' anything.
Think that's the point he's making.
He's not good enough so he needs to be upgraded.
Did you look at the article posted on previous page?
https://strettynews.com/2022/06/08/opinion-erik-ten-hag-has-to-make-a-decision-on-david-de-gea/
His distribution is dog shizzle!
Well not quite as he said he's our best right back which isn't true. Dalot can at least trap a football so he gets the nod even though he isn't good enough either.
DDG will leave next summer I reckon. We have much bigger issues this summer.
Ones as bad as the other, tweedle dum and di in reality.
Depending on the game of course I'd select either / or if were lumped with them both next year.
His distribution is about as bad as De Gea's currently. De Gea, when he arrived, had good distribution skills. De Gea at his best was at a level Henderson will never reach. Henderson needs to be sold and we need a proper upgrade on De Gea.
If ETH goes with De Gea next year, it'll only be down to necessity rather than choice. He might stick around simply with his contract being so big we can't offload him, but that isnt the same thing as being picked because he's good enough. His poor passing & passivity are likely to be major problems in a team that uses all 11 players to ensure we retain possession.
It's not just about his distribution though. It's everything else he doesn't do, he is literally in the bottom end of every goal keeping metric in the league aside from making saves.
De geas distribution is the worst in the league by quite a stretch. Every statistical analysis shows it, as does the eye test. Henderson's distribution is way, way better than de geas. Especially on the traditional gk distribution (long kicks, throwing out, kicking out of hands etc.) There isn't a huge amount between them in terms of ability for short distribution (I.e assisting with playing out from the back) but Henderson is much more confident and more willing to do meaning he actually shows for the ball, de gea just stays on his line.
And the crux of the issue is many people, myself included, think this is a far bigger issue than you are making out. I am almost certain there’s not a defensive CB pair in world football who would thrive ahead of him, he’s that bad at the other fundamentals of the game. Yet here we go again signing another CB to paper over the cracks. He’s more akin to the back wheel of the car, the rest of it can still in theory function, but it’s never going to work as intended. Until we replace him we will never get close to winning anything major.
It’s hilarious how much people try to downplay Henderson just to big up De Gea. Let’s ignore the fact we looked a miles better team with him between the sticks which was backed up by the stats.
Yep, I read it. It's not a balanced review of De Gea. It's a hatchet job. Any keeper can be destroyed with an article like that.
I noticed that he went for the goals conceded/xG expected stat to show that he's not even that good a shot stopper. But only started from the 17/18 season. Why? De Gea has been at United since 2011. Could it be that De Gea had his worst 3 seasons in that timeframe?
I'll be honest after 2021 I was done with Dave but he's had a fantastic season and regained his top class form. I want to see him starting next year.
For all the faults everyone likes to point out no one can deny De Gea is a goalkeeper than can win points with his shot stopping ability. His distribution leaves something to be desired but you can find other ways around that and I expect ETH will be more than capable of getting the best out of De Gea.
One of the best shot stoppers in the league, but miles behind in commanding the box and distribution. Not sure Henderson is much better with those attributes though. One of our least problems at the moment however, it’s the outfield we have to fix first.
Because no manager will put a player on the bench that gets 375K/W
If they won't replace a weaker player with a stronger one, regardless of wages, then they're a bad manager.
Once the window closes the club is stuck paying the wage bill and the only consideration for which players start and play should be performance. It costs the club the same amount to play Henderson as it does De Gea (or less, depending on how much they get for match bonuses).
The idea that players on high wages shouldn't be dropped is an example of the sunk cost fallacy.
Should we blame De Gea for the poor performances of Rashford, Sancho's slow start, the Greenwood matter, the idiocy of McFred, Pogba's no-show season, Matic's decline, the insanely poor performances of Maguire all season long, Varane's injuries, AWB's collapse as a footballer and Shaw's injuries? Yes, we looked miles better in the 20-21 season than the 21-22 season, but De Gea and Ronaldo were our two and only two consistently solid performers in the 21-22 season and which had nothing to do with Henderson being on the bench all season.
Yeah, seems like the situation we're in the move is to sell Henderson for big money, spend that on someone to start at one of our many positions of need (arguably everywhere but #10, LW and RCB) and play De Gea this year and if he can shift and become the type of keeper Ten Hag wants then re-sign him, and if not, or if he leaves, then it's 20M a year saved. Over 2 seasons that will cover the cost of buying a sweeping, passing keeper from a Europa league level team in the Bundesliga, Spain or Ligue 1 for 25M that makes 7M or so a season (still 140K a week).
Who do we have who is better? No one, and I don‘t think a new goalie is a priority.
Hatchet job my ar$e!
I'd suggest he went with 17/18 simply cause its a 5 year period? I'd suggest that's absolutely fair, why complain at that starting point when we finished 2nd, albeit a distant 2nd. We've finished 2nd twice and 3rd in three of the 5 seasons yet you complain about the time frame? Odd complaint to have.
The stats back up exactly what we see from him over the course of every season, he's an excellent shot stopper and no one on either side of the argument says otherwise.
Outside of that he is smack bang average to poor in every other metric!
He's glued to his line, rarely ever comes out to collect set pieces / crosses into the box. According to the premier leagues own stats (from opta) he successful claimed 8 crosses, pathetic!
His communication with the back line is terrible
His distribution is atrocious and has been always - why do you think Ole wouldn't trust him and had him attempt to play out from the back? Even at that he often picked the wrong pass and played our center halves in trouble.
His form this season hasn't been at all great, he's been the best of an extremely piss poor bunch. They've been so atrocious they've made him look better. Reality is he's been at fault for countless goals throughout the season, making some Hollywood saves here n there doesn't mean great season.
Well to be fair, there's no point going all the way back. Juan Mata was one of the best players in league about 10 years back but should he have stayed past this season?
I'll say what I have been saying about De Gea. Guy looks good when the rest of the team is terrible. It plays to his strengths. There are loads of keepers like that.
It's just that lots accepts he had 3 poor seasons and that's why those stats aren't gonna look impressive. That's my point. It won't sway my overall opinion of him. He can be one of the best. He has often been mentioned as the world's best. I never agreed but definitely up there at his best.
The issue about DDG is not just one but more than one. His issue is not only he's not comfortable with his feet but also he doesn't come out or claim his area and also not quick off his line. This could influence the team's defensive performance because that means the keeper doesn't want to share responsibility in defense as a team play but instead he prefers this as individual play. It's like a project member who gets twice more salary but only wants to do one task while the other project members do more than two or three tasks, hiding from his job and expect the defenders to do everything while he thinks his role is just be shot stopper. There are more than just being shot stopper as goalkeeper.
What Enrique said is exactly what people who opposed the idea of giving DDG new contract. This is not even matter of different opinion anymore because the people who try to defend DDG can't deny that DDG is not good at those.
In ideal world, he wouldn't be starter under ETH but this is not ideal fantasy world because ETH has no choice but to use him and trying to coach him because we can't get rid of DDG and ETH will be forced to play his 2nd highest paid salary. If coaching won't do it then I'm sure ETH will have no choice but to move him on.
What Enrique said is exactly what people who opposed the idea of giving DDG new contract. This is not even matter of different opinion anymore because the people who try to defend DDG can't deny that DDG is not good at those.
In ideal world, he wouldn't be starter under ETH but this is not ideal fantasy world because ETH has no choice but to use him and trying to coach him because we can't get rid of DDG and ETH will be forced to play his 2nd highest paid salary. If coaching won't do it then I'm sure ETH will have no choice but to move him on.
May be Dean's distribution is also questionable but the issue about DDG is not just his distribution but he doesn't command and dominate, basically he tends to stay on his line rather than trying to come out to claim the ball. Dean is miles better than DDG for this aspect.
DDG will obviously start for us next season. Henderson will only be here if we can't sell.him. fairly pointless debating as even if one of the very few world class keepers were available we have far greater priorities.
De Gea came back from all the criticism he got in the press after his coach left the club. He got more bad headlines after he missed a penalty in the Europa Cup League final. De Gea is still a great goalkeeper, up there with the very best of today's keepers and the fact that he won four consecutive POTY awards says a lot. Without De Gea we would have now been struggling to finish in the top 6. There's only 3 players who don't deserve to be at United, and by that I mean they don't deserve the terrible mess they find themselves in. De Gea, Ronaldo and Verane. All world class players wondering what's going on?
I really don’t think your going to sign a new GK and Henderson had a chance to claim number 1 and failed. He is levels below De Gea. It’s crazy to even suggest anyone but De Gea will start and that’s before even commenting on how many outfield players you need to sign.
Why do you say Henderson failed? On the individual level he was comfortably better than De Gea has been in three of his last four seasons, and the defence as a whole was better in his period in goal than they have been in any of the last four seasons with De Gea.
He did have two or three bad matches which his critics constantly point to, but otherwise he was quite solid. De Gea was having a lot more bad matches than that for three seasons straight, before being back to fairly good this season (and even then his second half of the season he started dropping away again).
If you bought a house and one of the bedrooms hasn’t got a floor you don’t prioritise changing colour of the tiles in the kitchen in terms of renovation work
It's at least possible that we don't need a new goalkeeper, just a new goalkeeper coach. Certainly worth a try
Playing de gea is more like buying a house with a bathroom which has just a toilet in it, its a very good toilet no doubt deals with all the shit you throw in it very well, but its lack of washing facilities causes issues.
Initially your just a little smelly, but eventually the smell worse and worse and you start to get ill from related diseases and what not.
The issues de gea causes are much more serious than just decorative and its an issue that needs sorting ASAP.
Playing De Gea is more like managing a football team and finding out your goalkeeper is fecking dogshit.