Would imagine there is zero chance he has interest in coming to United at the moment. He will have his pick of European teams when he decides to leave Leverkusen.
Why Florian Wirtz is perfect for Amorim's system
- Thread starter Raees
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
Musiala is amazing, but personally I think Wirtz is better, because his decision making is better and thus his strategic value is higher. Musiala's game is too often only head down and dribble.
Yep, no real point discussion this in much detail. He has the choice of multiple clubs according to reports.
Bayern, Real, City are all in for him and I would suspect if Alonso goes Madrid, he follows him there.
If that happens maybe we can ty get Guler.
130m is taking the piss. No one is worth that much after quantitative easing.
I regard Bellingham's goal scoring output during last season as a combination of a purple patch and incredible luck. In my opinion it is not sustainable and a fluke and I 100% expect Wirtz to have a better g+a ratio going forward.
Whoever called Havertz the new Scholes must have never seen him play, he was nothing like Scholes at Leverkusen.
There were doubts about him, especially mentally, coming out of Germany but the talent was there, and we're seeing it come out a bit more now at Arsenal.
Guler would be a lovely option
Agreed. Though i still think he’s a decent player but not a very good or great player. He was overhyped before coming to England as players coming from the German league appear to have happen
In fairness, Havertz was never as hyped as Wirtz is, at least in Germany, and the fee payed for him came as a bit of a shock for many people.
Exactly this. And Leverkusen didn't hesitate to take the money as they knew Wirtz was ready to step up for them and effectively be an improvement over Havertz.
It’s a case more similar to Werner than Wirtz.
An upgrade on luckyscout. I look forward to checking this analysis out after work. For what it’s worth I think this lad looks as talented as Havertz or Sancho looked but I’m wary. I do think Sancho can join Havetrz as a good solid PL player once he matures but ultimately neither will live up to the initial hype.
Guler and Amad would be a tiny forward line! Like the Barcelona techno midgets. Does Guler press?
Guler and Amad would be a tiny forward line! Like the Barcelona techno midgets. Does Guler press?
Of course he is perfect. So was Pele. Neither will ever play under Amorim at United.....
Not sure he'll want to go to a Championship club.
Wirtz would be way too expensive now, and with out budget and FFP limits, I think we should take a look at Serrve Nypan, who looks extremely talented at 17.
I can tell that English isn’t your first language, so I feel it’s important to point out that you make a very coherent analysis and speak very well on the roles of players, despite not speaking in your natural tongue. It’s off topic, but I do find it impressive. Just wanted to say that.
In terms of your argument, I do not whole either agree or disagree. I find the points you put forwards to be provocative, and all I will say in reaction is that I think it is too early to say what role Jude feels more “comfortable” in. I agree with your assertion about him being somewhat chaotic in his approach to the game, and I enjoyed the parallels with Veron and the metamorphosis he underwent. I also agree that I didn’t think it made him a better player. He was at his peak for me as an aggressive, roaming, forward thinking 8 (or 8.5), and then ultimately became a sort of 6/10 hybrid.
You pointed out that Jude could benefit from more “pause” in his game……not necessarily the word we would use natively in English to describe what you mean….but nevertheless I think that is a perfect description of where he could improve. To take more time to make decisions, and thus have those actions be more decisive and organised within the collective of the team. Rather than play like a hurricane. “Pause” sums that up very nicely.
I will indeed venture that last season, when he went through an incredible goal scoring streak, the role he played - as something of a false nine - actually put him more on the periphery of the game at times, and made him think more about his movements and actions, and I think the results were there for us all to see. It’s a question then of translating that approach to the game when he is deployed in a more “natural” box to box role. Again, however, I am not sure what is natural for Jude. He’s been billed as an all action box to box midfielder, with significant goal threat, ball carrying abilities, work rate etc., but after last season, he is now a carrying the burden of his performances being assessed by how often he hits the back of the net. Even if he is playing a completely different role. I hope that expectations for his output are adjusted to account for how he is deployed.
I think that’s a reasonable assessment. I can’t make a compelling counter argument without seeing him play for a couple more seasons. I also think it’s fair to think Wirtz will have higher output simply due to how they are likely to be deployed. Wirtz is much more likely to be played in an almost purely attacking role, as a focal point of attacking play (not as a spearhead, but as a driver of attacking intent). Bellingham, meanwhile, has already been deployed in a number of roles that come with different discipline. As a false 9 or shadow striker last season, he was incredibly effective in the final third. Hard for opposing defenders to pick up, and with a free rein to roam where he wanted and ghost into positions in the opponent box at will. This season, he has been deployed all over the place, including more recently as a right sided midfielder, which comes with much more defensive responsibility, and far less opportunity to do what he did last season.
I think comparing the two is going to ultimately be a pointless exercise, because I think they will perform very different roles on the pitch. As discussed with @Fobal Jude is most likely to end up playing as a box to box midfielder, and not as a free roaming 10, inside forward, or false 9. Whereas Wirtz is likely to only be deployed as a 10 or inside forward. Making comparisons somewhat moot.
The issue Bellingham has is that he is very good at a number of different roles and someone needs to figure out where he plays best and give him a sustained run in that role. The attacking trident of Vini, Jude and Rodrygo was as good as anything in Europe last season. If Madrid were going to mess with it, they’d have been best off signing a central striker and moving Jude back as the most attacking of a midfield trident. Instead they signed Mbappe, who for a multitude of reasons, threw their balance off completely. Operating in the same spaces as Vini, moving Jude out of the role where he excelled so much last season, and squeezing Rodrygo out of the side, a player who provided balance on that right hand side. They then should have spent their funds on a couple of CBs, and a playmaking 6 or 8. That playmaker behind Camavinga or Valverde and Bellingham, would have made for a hell of a midfield. We can all look at that team and see how badly Kroos is missed.
Anyway TL;DR: I don’t disagree.
Thanks man, but after reading myself, Oh Boy what a mess!
The worse part it's that not few times I can write as disjointed as that and with even more mistakes in my very own language.
Anyway cool that at least you could grabbed the idea I've tried to portrait.
Yes, your idea of what I've meant with pause it's quite correct.
Regarding the bold part, he also needs other partners in crime that aren't also quite confuse of what role they have to play (and one in particular that perfectly knows it, but it's entering his late stages).
In any case, he has a very competitive character and some winner edge that doesn't have to enter a Simeone stage in some sort of "let's hurry, I'll be everywhere, trying to do everything (no matter what I'm better at) because we have to win"...that would play against his best assets, even if of course his best nature it's to take advantage of that box to box capability and long stride. A bit of this happened the match against Pool.
I remember a Maradona anecdote where him in a match asked Simeone what the hell he was doing going forward every fecking time, while at the same time constantly shooting.
Later he asked him if he had scored many 40 metres goals? Simeone obviosuly answered that he didn't and Diego basicly told him to cut the crap. To go forward when he told him, or in a REAL clear opening and to leave the shooting to others while more importantly covering his arse in case he looses the ball.
Madrid believing Jude was the second coming of Alfredo (who would always be a forward even striker above evrything), thinking that him has to deliver striker numbers like when he arrived, in addition to play all over the pitch, it's not the best idea.
He might score less (or even more if he chooses better his battles), yet the important thing it's for him to mostly keep the task asked, more constrain, more focus, wether it's a mid role or even an ocasional forward one. In order to exploit his best tendencies and traits with less urge, he'll feel more confident and more productive.
In any case Madrid has to help him to do that, like Pool helps Macca to be that cerebral and involved in everything, without becoming a reckless pinball all over the pitch, more in case of Macca because he doesn't have the stamina and pace Jude's has.
I think I'd agree, but it's also why I prefer watching Musiala. He may not be as, I don't know, sensible(?) in his play as Wirtz, and I'm not saying Musiala isn't a smart player in his own right, but it's the fact that he sometimes chooses to do something more on the flashy side than the efficient one that makes me prefer watching him.
Agree, Wirtz decision making and football IQ is up there with the very best players in the world, he almost always makes the right decision, Musiala may look to have a higher ceiling because of his style of dribbling but Wirtz is just much more efficient in nearly everything he does.
Both incredible players but would bank on Wirtz having more impact and consistency over a season. At the same time I feel like Musiala when he reaches his prime may be harder to shut out of a game, and yes I prefer watching him too, to me he is the best dribbler in the world currently.
We'll find out next season when they are playing together at Bayern.
