Why did we buy Fred?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
- Start date
He was dropped after a man of the match performance where he scored & hit the post.
We shouldn't have just the one player capable of doing that job. Look at the top teams over the years. We had Keane and Scholes, working together to control the team around. Then Scholes/Carrick - same thing. Barca had Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta (three of them). Real Madrid have had Modric and Kroos. City have De Bruyne/Silva/Silva (and were trying to sign Jorginho). Pogba himself had his best and most consistent form when he had Pirlo next to him in his Juve days (which is what 'freed' him to focus more going forward instead of having to do everything himself).
As it is we are totally reliant on Pogba to do pretty much everything for us when we have the ball. Control the team around, set the tempo, drive the team forward himself, create the goal scoring opportunities. Other than maybe Pereira (who never plays) and maybe Mata (who doesn't play often and other than the last two games has been poor all year), we don't have anybody else that can actually work with him to do any of that.
Sometimes its said that foreign players coming to the premier league need a season to adapt.
For us its more like Mourinho has to adjust to them.
He needs a season to decide to give them a run of games.
Youve confused not being good enough with easing someone in. I guess Evra & Vidic were not good enough either?
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So you’re happy we spend £50m on a player then he doesn’t get minutes whilst fit? Then the likes of McTominay are playing the same position, and playing very badly may I add.
The process of moving the quality of this team along is taking too long and this is part of the problem. I would prefer Mourinho signing 2 top class players that come straight into the first 11 than keep buying players and reverting back to Ferguson’s signings who haven’t been good enough for years.
He was bought because, like Sanchez, City were interested
He's only been here 3 months ffs, he was injured when he arrived for pre-season, he may have struggled to get up to the pace of the Premier League like most South Americans do, and if you hadn't noticed we've by and large been crap this season, throwing him in and asking/expecting him to fix us ain't gonna help him settle any quicker, or us.
If he's still on the bench this time next season you can ask, but not now.
If he's still on the bench this time next season you can ask, but not now.
Chill the feck out and revisit this in the summer
Juventus has Pjanic, Matuidi, Betancur, Can, Kherida as midfielders. We have Fred, Matic, Pereira, Pogba, Fellaini, Ander Herrera. It's called squad depth and if some here come noting his price tag, then hey it's 2018 and if you want to buy a proper player who still has enough contract left, then you have to pay for it.
First of all Fred needs to prove himself more to implement into the play here. Whether we field 2, 3 or 4 midfielders, it's for the player to be better than the other midfielders to be picked above them. We need them all, as we tend to have injuries and get up to 60 games per season. He will get his time and chances soon enough.
First of all Fred needs to prove himself more to implement into the play here. Whether we field 2, 3 or 4 midfielders, it's for the player to be better than the other midfielders to be picked above them. We need them all, as we tend to have injuries and get up to 60 games per season. He will get his time and chances soon enough.
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That was exactly my thoughts yesterday. Was it Mourinhos way of putting his weight around in the club. He's a good player and should be played in the place of Matic who is right off the boil.
On another player. Shaw was a top player yesterday. If not the best.
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It's just one of the many narratives people have made up to exonerate Jose from how poor we are. Remember some weeks ago we were losing to shit teams and all of a sudden it was 'player power', 'downed tools', then we won Newcastle and everything became fine once again. The idea that the club signs players without the managers directive only started after Jose's second season when it was looking like every single person he signed was crap or wanted to leave.
Some players gel in quickly, some take time. Almost everyone knows this.
For a club in the middle of the table, if they pay big money for a midfielder, they’ll have few alternatives so he’ll play even if he’s struggling to adapt.
At United, Pogba, Matic, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata, Perreira and McTominay fight Fred for two/three places. When he’s bedding in, he’ll be lucky to play.
Fred is an interesting and well scouted player, who clearly has struggled to adjust to the higher speed and physical pressing in his first months here.
For a club in the middle of the table, if they pay big money for a midfielder, they’ll have few alternatives so he’ll play even if he’s struggling to adapt.
At United, Pogba, Matic, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata, Perreira and McTominay fight Fred for two/three places. When he’s bedding in, he’ll be lucky to play.
Fred is an interesting and well scouted player, who clearly has struggled to adjust to the higher speed and physical pressing in his first months here.
You specifically said Mourinho doesn't trust them. If Mourinho didn't trust Fred, he wouldn't have started the season with him.
Makes no sense. Has to be given a game sometime, thats the whole point of easing him in, just because he played a few games still doesnt mean he's fully trusted. See Mkhitaryan
That's not to say he can't adapt to the role.
Fernandinho, who was an attacking midfielder when he left Shakhtar for City was an attacking/box to box midfielder. Very similar to Fred actually. Now he's arguably one of the best defensive midfielders in the premier league, if not, Europe.
Pep was strongly linked with Fred, and I can only imagine he'd have rotated with Fernandinho in the holding role, had City signed him.
Obviously he may not adapt, but to me, he should certainly be tried there. I would like to see he and Pogba in a double pivot.
Apart from yesterday's game, Fred has been used in more or less every game.
Mkhitaryan had plenty of chances. He was shite. Simple as that!
I'm thinking its quite a step up from the Ukrainian league to the Premier League, certainly in terms of physicality, so I would think Fred is still acclimatising to the conditions. Its only been 2 months , 9 PL games, which hes started 4 and came off the bench once. So hes featured in half the games so far.
Hes in our most stocked position, midfield, competing against numerous players for essentially 1 position (Pogba and Matic are usually nailed on, the 3rd midfielder spot is what Fred, Herrera, Andreas, Fellaini and McTominay are fighting for).
Hes in our most stocked position, midfield, competing against numerous players for essentially 1 position (Pogba and Matic are usually nailed on, the 3rd midfielder spot is what Fred, Herrera, Andreas, Fellaini and McTominay are fighting for).
Unused in 4 out of 9 league games and only 20 minues against West ham, hardly every game. Dont even know what point your trying to make
Thought it was pretty simple. The point i'm making as I mentioned before is that if Mourinho didn't trust him, he'd not have started half the games he had.
Integrating players into a struggling team is difficult
Which isnt many
Playing a few games is hardly a full endorsement of trust. Bailly has played a couple of games but it's pretty clear Mourinho is lacking trust in him
Because he's been shite this season. You've got to take your chances when played. Bailly has been awful in the few games he's played this season and has rightfully been dropped.
You've got to be an idiot to put Fred into the deep end. The lad has never played in a top league before and this is his first big club. So let's put him in to turn around our season right 
He was one of our best players against wolves, was horrible against Spurs, and was in between for his other appearances. There's obviously a player in there, his technique and work rate are top notch, but he's also affected by pace of the league and will need to time to adapt as he loses the ball a lot more than he did in Ukraine.
He was one of our best players against wolves, was horrible against Spurs, and was in between for his other appearances. There's obviously a player in there, his technique and work rate are top notch, but he's also affected by pace of the league and will need to time to adapt as he loses the ball a lot more than he did in Ukraine.
We been terrible since SAF left.
Maybe one day people will understand how amazing he was with transfers.
I think Fred falls within the group of players that fit the profile of signings that we needed, but are not quite working out (yet).
We needed a midfielder whose skill set compliments Pogba and Matic. That meant someone who is dynamic enough to cover for Pogba (but be less inclined to roam himself), technical enough to affect play from central midfield (without the space afforded to deep-lying playmakers or attacking midfielders), and ambitious enough to regularly attempt risky passes (even when they do not come off).
Fred did fit the criteria, despite not being the best in any of the categories.
From his limited appearances here so far, he does seem to be forward-thinking in his passing. He also tends to pick the right moment to play risky passes, but his execution has been average.
His close control has been a bit inconsistent, occasionally sublime but often heavy.
It's difficult to judge how well he's carried out his defensive duties, given how the team have defended as a whole this season, save to note that he is at least physically suited to play in this league, and that his combination play often lands him as the further midfielder forward. Whether you think the latter is a feather in his cap or a black eye probably depends on whether you are a Jose Mourinho.
At worst, his performances have been a mixed bag. Throw in the fact that he is a Brazilian player still adapting in a new league, it's surely too early to call his signing pointless. Also have to bear in mind that his performances are not the only reason for his lack of game time.
After the Wolves/Derby games, Mourinho chose to provide even more cover from midfield, by playing someone who can actually drop back and become an auxiliary centreback, and that Matic is not mobile and agile enough to perform this role. Since then, the third midfielder has been Fellaini (West Ham and Valencia) and McTominay (Newcastle), while Herrera had also been used in a similar role prior. You could argue that the team simply did not have a place for Fred.
Playing Mata was an obvious shift yesterday, with Fellaini and McTominay both unavailable. It was effective, against the least direct opposition we've faced so far this season.
With the benefit of hindsight, having an attacking midfielder was more effective in nullifying Chelsea's playmaking efforts than fielding either Fred or an extra defensive midfielder probably would have been. You can speculate whether that was by design, but Mata has generally done well in the limited minutes he's played this season.
But against more direct opponents, I would not be surprised if Mourinho returns to fielding a halfback, at least until he has more faith in his central defenders. That means Fred is going to find minutes hard to come by, but it doesn't mean he's not good enough to start for us.
We needed a midfielder whose skill set compliments Pogba and Matic. That meant someone who is dynamic enough to cover for Pogba (but be less inclined to roam himself), technical enough to affect play from central midfield (without the space afforded to deep-lying playmakers or attacking midfielders), and ambitious enough to regularly attempt risky passes (even when they do not come off).
Fred did fit the criteria, despite not being the best in any of the categories.
From his limited appearances here so far, he does seem to be forward-thinking in his passing. He also tends to pick the right moment to play risky passes, but his execution has been average.
His close control has been a bit inconsistent, occasionally sublime but often heavy.
It's difficult to judge how well he's carried out his defensive duties, given how the team have defended as a whole this season, save to note that he is at least physically suited to play in this league, and that his combination play often lands him as the further midfielder forward. Whether you think the latter is a feather in his cap or a black eye probably depends on whether you are a Jose Mourinho.
At worst, his performances have been a mixed bag. Throw in the fact that he is a Brazilian player still adapting in a new league, it's surely too early to call his signing pointless. Also have to bear in mind that his performances are not the only reason for his lack of game time.
After the Wolves/Derby games, Mourinho chose to provide even more cover from midfield, by playing someone who can actually drop back and become an auxiliary centreback, and that Matic is not mobile and agile enough to perform this role. Since then, the third midfielder has been Fellaini (West Ham and Valencia) and McTominay (Newcastle), while Herrera had also been used in a similar role prior. You could argue that the team simply did not have a place for Fred.
Playing Mata was an obvious shift yesterday, with Fellaini and McTominay both unavailable. It was effective, against the least direct opposition we've faced so far this season.
With the benefit of hindsight, having an attacking midfielder was more effective in nullifying Chelsea's playmaking efforts than fielding either Fred or an extra defensive midfielder probably would have been. You can speculate whether that was by design, but Mata has generally done well in the limited minutes he's played this season.
But against more direct opponents, I would not be surprised if Mourinho returns to fielding a halfback, at least until he has more faith in his central defenders. That means Fred is going to find minutes hard to come by, but it doesn't mean he's not good enough to start for us.
And Vidic seemed not to do it straight away and he came from Russia which is probably similar level to Ukranian league and he went on to be 10 times the player Fernandino ever was.
The rumour at the start of the season was that our defense is not strong enough to accommodate such a small player like Fred in midfield and once Jose gets that new monster defender leader then we'll see far more of Fred and his dynamic and quick thinking skill set that will enable our attacks starting from defense to attack via midfield to transition much faster and more effectively.
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I said before he was bought to not expect an immediate impact and that it'll take him sometime to adapt to the team and the league. He is just transitioning thats all. He'll come good.
He started the season because other players were away. Now they're not, so he's not starting.
Personally I think this transfer happened as because he was available and that City were after him and that he must be good. Think this was done to try to get one over City. So far it hasn't worked for him.
Hope he comes goof but Jose should stop dropping people after one game. I think this makes it look like we need a Director of Football in as soon as possible because between Jose and Ed they are not doing the best job.
I think it was a similar thing to the Sanchez transfer get him before City but at the moment both have not done as well as expected.
If he needs time to adapt to the League Jose should give him those minutes to do so.
Hope he comes goof but Jose should stop dropping people after one game. I think this makes it look like we need a Director of Football in as soon as possible because between Jose and Ed they are not doing the best job.
I think it was a similar thing to the Sanchez transfer get him before City but at the moment both have not done as well as expected.
If he needs time to adapt to the League Jose should give him those minutes to do so.
It's a pretty clear issue and can't believe no one pointed it out : he plays the same position as Pogba.
Because Man City wanted to sign him last summer,so we went ahead and signed him.Like how we went ahead and signed Sanchez because City were interested.....If Man City put in a 50 million bid for Charlie Adam I”m sure we”ll do everything that we possibly can to nick him away from City.We”ve got one hell of a coherent transfer strategy in place....
Yet the one player this squad really needs is a right winger and Mahrez would be perfect.
I don't think we can say we signed Sanchez cause city were interested.....he's been a quality player. I think Fred, just needs time. No different to Dalot.
Because he had the same name as our mascot, it’s pretty obvious
He wasn't amazing all the time either
Nah SAF was a god. He would have known that Fred, Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Lindelof etc wouldn't have worked out. So he wouldn't have signed them.
If we payed 50m for Idrissa Gueye, it would be the same. Was watching him today and they play exactly the same. Which isnt bad, but its not great either. Tbf if you put Gueye in Ukraine he looks amazing so its hard to jusge