Why did we buy Fred?

He can't be that bad, can he? I mean, City made an offer for him last year (January), he must have impressed them. Maybe he isn't all that but must have useful attributes.
 
Treble said:
He can't be that bad, can he? I mean, City made an offer for him last year (January), he must have impressed them. Maybe he isn't all that but must have useful attributes.
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I think he just need a good run of matches, preferably starting with a couple of easy home matches. The problem is that every match now is do or die in terms of top four.
 
McTominay and Pereira are ahead of him in the managers thoughts right now. Simples. They are not kids, they are first team squad members. Solskjaer has generally been consistent in his selections, obviously fancies the Matic/ McTominay ‘type’ for the holding role and has Andreas higher in the pecking order for the ‘other’ midfielder. I’m sure if one of them need to be replaced in the line up Fred will get a look in.
 
sherrinford said:
McTominay and Pereira are ahead of him in the managers thoughts right now. Simples. They are not kids, they are first team squad members. Solskjaer has generally been consistent in his selections, obviously fancies the Matic/ McTominay ‘type’ for the holding role and has Andreas higher in the pecking order for the ‘other’ midfielder. I’m sure if one of them need to be replaced in the line up Fred will get a look in.
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Yeah, Ole has already said about needing the right players to compliment each other. Pogba gets the glory but Herera and Matic are crucial for freeing him up. I am guessing Fred would be the player to come in for Pogba in Solskjaer's mind but at the moment Pogba is undroppable.
 
kouroux said:
He wanted Sanchez, Pep being interesred in a player doesn't guarantee anything.
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It guarantees that the player has quality though, even if it is not the highest quality. Both Sanchez and Fred, and also Jorginho, might have been decent at City, or even more than decent.
 
The Boy said:
True if you base your ideas on just one game, which is one of toughest of the season so far.

As I said earlier Ole has already said he's having trouble adjusting to Prem football, so why would you introduce him in a home game against your biggest rivals with very little prep. Why don't you wait for a few more games and see what happens against Palace Soton and PSG, you'll have a better idea by then.
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The point is it doesnt look good for Fred to be getting these games when the kids are being picked over him. It's possible but seems unlikely that suddenly Fred is being picked ahead of them from now
 
I get why people are getting frustrated since he's not involved as much as he probably should but I'm firmly with Ole on this one, he's simply not ready. He is way too sloppy in possession especially with that loose touch. He'll create chances at the other end of the field no doubt but he will give away one or two golden chances away every game with the way he plays.

I believe he doesn't have to do much to come right and I do believe that Ole believes in him but currently he is simply too risky.
 
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Defended Fred not playing previously but must admit I was completely taken back yesterday. How bad does he have to be to not play in front of Andreas? There's the need to adjust to the PL which I fully get but the Mata role came with less responsibility.
 
He hasn't kicked a ball in a month an a half. There's no way he starts on Wednesday. It's our fault. We should have been giving him 20 minutes here and there. As it is, he's in no condition to help the team.
 
stepic said:
Thing is he had a few games earlier in the season where he looked alright. Him and Pogba were building something. Then he’s not had a look in since.
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Yep. Although the narrative seems to be he is crap now because he hasn't featured much. Such an odd situation. How is he going to improve when he never gets any playing time?
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
Yep. Although the narrative seems to be he is crap now because he hasn't featured much. Such an odd situation. How is he going to improve when he never gets any playing time?
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It is actually the opposite. He was crap when he played earlier so he has not featured much lately. Reason given was he needs time to adapt which I am not fully convinced with.

This season is written off anyway. But next season it is going to get pretty serious. If he is not ready by then then better start looking for another signing because we need midfield backup for sure.
 
Amadaeus said:
I refuse to believe Fred is as bad as our management team is making him out to be. To give Sanchez and lukaku a chance and not Fred some game time seems conflicting. With the injuries in the team, no doubt we will have to see him sooner rather than later
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I don't think Ole is purposely making him any worse than he is. He was shite against Reading, his last game, that was almost 2 months back. Which manager does not want a good player in his team, unless there is some personal issue between manager and player? So, possible conclusion could be he is equally shite in training too and hence not getting chance.

The reason I am upset because I knew this day (yesterday) would come when we need him as backup. Just couldn't see that day would come so early. Man, we could have won 3 points had we had a reasonably good backup.
 
Tony247 said:
It is actually the opposite. He was crap when he played earlier so he has not featured much lately. Reason given was he needs time to adapt which I am not fully convinced with.

This season is written off anyway. But next season it is going to get pretty serious. If he is not ready by then then better start looking for another signing because we need midfield backup for sure.
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If Ole is still here then Fred will have to leave anyways. Ole clearly doesn't rate him for whatever reason.
 
He was suspended for using PEDs in the past. Perhaps the club found out he has been up to it again and are trying to keep him iff the pitch to avoid a very serious investiagtion. Then again this is pure conjecture.
 
golden_blunder said:
Andreas P could translate
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Ole: Herreras injured, we have to stop Liverpool Fred, are you ready?
Fred: Yes boss, I'm ready!
Andreas: He said "feck you, bring back Jose".
Ole: Sigh... another 2 months on the bench Fred. Andreas, warm up.
 
Nick. said:
He was suspended for using PEDs in the past. Perhaps the club found out he has been up to it again and are trying to keep him iff the pitch to avoid a very serious investiagtion. Then again this is pure conjecture.
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Wild wild conjecture. This is like looking at clouds in Venus and making a case for the existence of dinasaurs there.
 
Treble said:
He can't be that bad, can he? I mean, City made an offer for him last year (January), he must have impressed them. Maybe he isn't all that but must have useful attributes.
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They also nearly brought Jorge at Chelsea.
 
In my view he just doesn't fit in with the kind of midfield dynamic we want to have. He can't play the Matic or Herrera role so the only option is for him to play the Pogba role when Pogba doesn't play. The problem with this is Pogba mostly plays and Fred seems to be better on the right than on the left. However, Herrera is better on the right and needed to help out the RB anyway.

Having said that, having Pereira and McTominay start ahead of him in games is obviously a bad sign.
 
I feel like Ole just didn't wanna risk it. The amount of balls He gave away was shocking We can't do that against Liverpool.
 
Must be something between Fred and Ole (maybe other coach) behind the scenes. He can’t be called shite as he didn’t play (so we were unable to see any proof of him being shite).

On the other hand, McTominay and to a larger extent Pereira had very poor games, Pereira shite games even - Fred didn’t.

Time passes, McTominay is starting to visibly improve and becoming “adequate” rather than “not good enough”, Pereira less so. Still Fred doesn’t get a single bloody minute over this entire cycle. It’s suspicious beyond belief.

If indeed Fred is so much more shite than them, how can he make a bench (which he often does)? The last time Fred played he scored a goal disallowed for offside (when a penalty was given instead which Mata scored) - but that particular 45 min performance from Fred was not at all disastrous.
 
Tony247 said:
I don't think Ole is purposely making him any worse than he is. He was shite against Reading, his last game, that was almost 2 months back. Which manager does not want a good player in his team, unless there is some personal issue between manager and player? So, possible conclusion could be he is equally shite in training too and hence not getting chance.

The reason I am upset because I knew this day (yesterday) would come when we need him as backup. Just couldn't see that day would come so early. Man, we could have won 3 points had we had a reasonably good backup.
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So were Pereira and McTominay. The reading game is such a stupid game to judge players on though - they were thrown in together with a mismatched team. The way you should integrate players is by rotating them in and out with the first teamers.

I can't see why he couldn't have had a couple of games with Pogba and Herrera, or Pogba and Matic or Herrera and Matic. The same for Andreas and McTominay.

What we tried against reading was a like for like replacement of the first team, and expected them to play like Pogba, Matic and Herrera. That was setting them up for failure.
 
sugar_kane said:
What’s odd is that he is never getting minutes yet is still on the bench, that suggests that maybe he is purely seen as a Pogba deputy rather than someone who can come on and do a more defensive or auxiliary role, for example.

Given that Pogba is undroppable right now and that every point counts he’s not getting a look in.
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I think you’ve nailed it. Ole has probably decided that Fred is too much of a defensive liability to play anything but the Pogba role. And since the team is built around Pogba, there always needs to be a sub for him on the bench in case of injury.

A bit like how you always have a substitute goalkeeper on the bench no matter what.
 
Treble said:
He can't be that bad, can he? I mean, City made an offer for him last year (January), he must have impressed them. Maybe he isn't all that but must have useful attributes.
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City may have been just pushing up the price. / wages for us, same with Sanchez.
 
tenpoless said:
I feel like Ole just didn't wanna risk it. The amount of balls He gave away was shocking We can't do that against Liverpool.
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This. Fred has been awful in possession. His passing accuracy has been terrible, especially in his defensive half. He’s unable to effectively link defence with the attack. Secondly, he hasn’t caught up to the speed at which midfielders are closed down by the opposition here in the Prem. Several times he’s lost possession by dithering on the ball. Will he improve? Maybe. But there is no way you can throw him onto the field against Liverpool, who are set up to take advantage of these weaknesses.

Pereira has been caught out in possession as well, but at least his passing is accurate. Ole had to make a choice between a bad and a worse option.

We need more depth.
 
Adisa said:
He hasn't kicked a ball in a month an a half. There's no way he starts on Wednesday. It's our fault. We should have been giving him 20 minutes here and there. As it is, he's in no condition to help the team.
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He might have played in the reserves? Do we know if he hasn't? Someone must
 
Skills said:
So were Pereira and McTominay
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McTominay was quite decent in that match, particularly in the second half if I remember correctly. He significantly outperformed the other two.

Pereira and Fred were both very poor, and there wasn't much to choose between them in the first few weeks of Ole's reign when both were alternating to get a few minutes off the bench. Since then Fred has actually been on the bench more than Pereira who has been left out of the squad more often, but twice Pereira has been played ahead of Fred when they were both available (once as a starter and then coming on against Liverpool). Presumably Pereira has been better in training.

I do agree that I would have liked to have seen Fred playing with two of the main three a bit, but the same could be said for Pereira. There is no particular reason why Fred should be chosen ahead of Pereira - both are decent players who have done fairly well elsewhere (and both are Brazilian internationals), but neither have really done it for us yet. If one is outperforming the other in training they rightfully should be getting games ahead of the other for now.
 
Tony247 said:
I am totally baffled too. This is unprecedented, or at least I don't remember such expensive signee in mid 20s travelling with the squad but eventually warming the bench even when options run out on the manager. He has been here for 8 months ffs. Nobody knows what the feck is going on in training. He is not injured, I don't know if there is relationship problem between Ole and him. Yesterday the team was crying out loud for help, any help. Yet, manager doesn't trust him. jeez.
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Well, this sums up Mourinho's baffling approach to bringing in players, with no obvious clue to how they were to fit in to an overall plan. Van Gaal's criteria for buying and selecting players may not have been taking us in the direction we wanted, but it was possible to see the reasoning behind it and he didn't behave as if there was money to burn.

We can only guess why Fred isn't being played, probably a mixture of the reasons offered in this thread, the only clue is Ole's comment that it takes some players longer to adjust to the English game. Doubt if it's down to personal relationship, Ole seems to have a genuinely open mind in that way.

His most obvious role is as backup to Pogba, so he probably has to wait for an "easy-win" game when Pogba can be rested (and he looks as if he's up to playing pretty well non-stop), or until injuries mean he has to be used - which is now looking more likely. Otherwise, for Ole and his staff I suspect he's too much of an unknown quantity for the more important games, particularly with a top-four place at stake - whereas Pereira and McTominay are pretty well integrated into the first team.

If Ole gets the job, which I hope he does, I think he could become a squad player in a more settled team - but I still don't understand why he was bought in the first place, especially with that kind of price tag.
 
We bought Fred because he has the potential to become a great midfielder for us. However, it was obvious from the start that he needed at least a year to settle into his new surroundings. New club, new league, higher standards, new language, new culture, etc.

Is Fred a better player than Andreas Pereira and Scott McTominay? Yes. Did Solskjær pick Fred ahead of them against Liverpool? No. A lot of people seem to be interpreting this as Fred either just not being good enough, or that he lacks match fitness. It is true that he lacks match fitness, but so does Pereira and McTominay.

The reason that Fred doesn't get into the team is that Solskjær understands the importance of playing a balanced team, particularly against a team like Liverpool that will punish every single mistake we make. Every solid team consists of some players that has the mindset, form, experience and abilities to control a game, lets call these players the pilars of the team. If you don't have enough pilars, the team will collapse. While our defense seems to find their form and starting to show their potential, neither of them are solid enough to focus on anyone else than themselves at the moment, i.e. we have no solid pilars at the back.

Before the game even started, we lost a pilar in Matic. Fred is not good enough defensively to replace him in this kind of game, while McTominay is a more defensively solid player. He is a local lad that understands the rivalry against Liverpool, and he has performed well against them previously. McTominay was the obvious choice to replace Matic. We also missed Lingard before the game, a pilar from our front trio. When Herrera was injured, we lost another pilar. With these three pilars out, the team was simply starting to become too shaky. Andreas Pereira has been attached to the club longer than Fred, he is probably easier to instruct since he speaks english, and he understands the rivalry to Liverpool. At this extremely vulnerable situation, Solskjær had to go with the safe choice of Pereira ahead of Fred.

To put it short, Fred is still adapting to his new surroundings, which means that he is an uncertain card for us. He may perform in some games, but be completely useless in others. Our team is simply not solid enough to risk playing him ahead of a solid player like Herrera. Dalot has the same problem. Is Young a better player than him? Probably not. Still, Young has to play to provide experience in our starting 11 and keep the balance in our team. Solskjær understands this, this is why he is the manager, while we are putting angry posts on a forum.
 
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He'll be given a chance, but only when Ole feels that it's right.

He's handled everything so impressively to date that it would take a fool to bet against him and his team to get a Manchester United player out of Fred if there's one in there!

If not, blood some youngsters and move on!
 
DSG said:
This. Fred has been awful in possession. His passing accuracy has been terrible, especially in his defensive half. He’s unable to effectively link defence with the attack. Secondly, he hasn’t caught up to the speed at which midfielders are closed down by the opposition here in the Prem. Several times he’s lost possession by dithering on the ball. Will he improve? Maybe. But there is no way you can throw him onto the field against Liverpool, who are set up to take advantage of these weaknesses.

Pereira has been caught out in possession as well, but at least his passing is accurate. Ole had to make a choice between a bad and a worse option.

We need more depth.
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Pereira was much more dreadful than Fred (apart from Liverpool game) both defensively and in attack
 
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