Agreed, but for this to work you either need to be Kante or have a team that presses with you. We do not press often nor good as a team.
Still his best performance as a teamplayer so far.
Why did we buy Fred?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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Agreed, but for this to work you either need to be Kante or have a team that presses with you. We do not press often nor good as a team.
Still his best performance as a teamplayer so far.
I did already mention James Milner kept Fabinho out the team. There’s not a right or wrong. James Milner Was in good form and Klopp felt he could do a better job than Fabinho. Are you going to argue with him? There like 2nd in the league. Meanwhile at the Circus.... we have Fellaini, Matic and McTomminay keeping Fred out of the team whilst we sit in 8th place.
Our tactics let us done, but also makes me wonder what was the purpose in buying him?
Has he been the key all along? 
We just seems to play a lot more fluid football and actually made decent movement. Seeing him play did make me think that Matic looked like an old man out there.
We just seems to play a lot more fluid football and actually made decent movement. Seeing him play did make me think that Matic looked like an old man out there.
This is what klopp says about fabinho needing time to adapt. He actually says it may take upto 6 months for him to adapt. Are you going to argue with him??
Midfield has been their weakest point though. Their fans complain that they move the ball too slowly through there.
There is a player in Fred, sometimes it just takes a little longer. He is no Modric in that he could go into every team in an hour and make them instantly better. What I like about Fred is that he has technique and a pass on him, good turns when on the ball, as well as speed to go through chains or just beat a player for pace over short distances. With experience and games comes confidence, which I am sure he does not have right now. Players are like people in an office, you're not the same on the first day as you are in one year - remains to be seen how he turns out. Let him play, we need speed next to the very slow Matic.
Sounds like a manager with specific roles for players and if you can’t do it, you get given time to pick it up. It clearly works they look great. What exactly have we been trying to get Fred to do?
Also let’s point out this is not a league thing this is a team thing. He’s not ready to play for Liverpool fc. They have a style he needs to adopt to that.
Sounds like there scouts should have given him Fred.
So that’s is what adapting to a new league means. You need to get to know your teammates, the system of the team. You don’t think mourinho has a specific role for fred. Or a specific way he wants him to play. If so then this conversation is pointless.
He’s not adapting to a new league is he. He’s adapting to a new teams style of play.
Do I think Jose has a role for Fred? No I don’t. There’s no evidence he has a correct role for anyone he’s brought to be honest.
So you are telling me that there is no such thing as adapting to a new league and that every signing should slot in immediately?? If you believe that then it shows how little you know about football.
Is Mainoldo still boring on about this?
Robert Pires:
"To find the rhythm and the tempo, for me it took six or seven months. It was very tough, for me it was the aggression and intensity."
Robert Pires said he needed time to adapt to the physical nature of the Premier League
Pires said he initially thought he had made a mistake signing for Arsenal from Marseille because of the physical nature of the game in England.
He said: "It was my first game away at Sunderland and Arsene Wenger said 'Robert, I know you are a bit upset because you want to play but I prefer if you are on the bench and you can watch the game, the fight and the tempo'.
"After 20 minutes sat on the bench I said to myself 'what are you doing here?' because it was very, very difficult. I remember one tackle from Patrick Vieira and I thought this football wasn't for me.
"It was very difficult and it is about adaptation. If you play in France, Spain or Italy it is not the same football."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40686944
Robert Pires:
"To find the rhythm and the tempo, for me it took six or seven months. It was very tough, for me it was the aggression and intensity."
Robert Pires said he needed time to adapt to the physical nature of the Premier League
Pires said he initially thought he had made a mistake signing for Arsenal from Marseille because of the physical nature of the game in England.
He said: "It was my first game away at Sunderland and Arsene Wenger said 'Robert, I know you are a bit upset because you want to play but I prefer if you are on the bench and you can watch the game, the fight and the tempo'.
"After 20 minutes sat on the bench I said to myself 'what are you doing here?' because it was very, very difficult. I remember one tackle from Patrick Vieira and I thought this football wasn't for me.
"It was very difficult and it is about adaptation. If you play in France, Spain or Italy it is not the same football."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40686944
But hey, what the does Robert Pires know hey @Mainoldo
Free up Pogba? Another attempt at buying Manchester Citys transfer targets(Sanchez)?
I was never happy about the transfer, and for the fee we paid for him we could have gotten Torreira and Witzel, or Seri. Still seems a little bit "messy" as a player; when on the ball does not seem to have awareness over who is around him, lunges into tackles when he should have tried to contain the player with the ball, liable to make stupid decisions.... Hopefully i am wrong, but fear that we could have done much better in the market for the money we paid for him.
The tempo of our play definitely looks more attacking with Fred in the team.
It’s too early to judge him just yet but I’m impressed so far.
It’s too early to judge him just yet but I’m impressed so far.
Obviously players need time to adapt to a league and club etc. However... does everyplayer we buy need to sit on the bench and spend games out of the team to adapt? This policy only runs true with Mourinho. All the players mentioned up above we witnessed play themselves into form, so my point is still valid. Is he learning to adapt by breathing in the old Trafford air form the bench?
I feel the same as you. Was like we thought if we just sign Guardiola players we will play the Guardiola way. Good shout Witsel looked perfect for this team. Still wonder why Jose was never interested.
No it doesn't. Keita has spent time on the bench, Fabinho loads. Morata last year. Xhaka at Arsenal. It happens literally all the time.
There's plenty to slag Mourinho off about, you don't need to be blatantly obtuse about something you know to be true just to find another angle.
It was difficult to do. Few people knew Zlatan, and nobody thought he could have been a good player. This prove the great knowledge of Mourinho about players overall in the World and his talent to improve player's quality through his teaching.
Not long before you join my club in just ignoring his posts
haha. True, after the post below this one it happened, had to.
Lucas Moura at Spurs is yet another example of a player spending plenty of time on the bench whilst adapting, hell Dembele too at Barca. It's all a little silly really, we know he knows.
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I’m not finding any angle. Stop using the same boring stick because you know I don’t like Mourinho. I’ve explained why Fabinho hasn’t played Keita plays more than enough games and doesn’t randomly just completely get removed from the team with no minutes. Obviously players do get benched that’s just football but are we going to say Keita is not a starter and Morata was not Chelsea’s Lead striker at the start of last season. I think it’s safe to say someone like Morata is not the level of which Chelsea requires which is why he doesn’t start much. It has nothing to do with him adapting.
Keita has played a grand total of 4 games in the league for pool and one substitute appearance in the UCL which adds upto 458 mins of football. Fred on the other hand has played 5 games in the league and one in the UCL for united which adds upto 498 mins of football. But keita has been playing regularly while fred is getting used to the air in OT on the bench. Me smells an agenda in there.
Also iirc Lukaku, Zlatan, pogba and Matic all went into the team as soon as they came to united. But yeah it’s big bad mou being mean with poor fred who has been left on the bench to rot.
He’s played 8 games. Whilst playing in every premier league game this season except for the last two as he has been injured. Fred has 4 games with no minutes under his belt with no injuries associated to his name. Don’t make the states overlook my actual point.
Yet Lukaku gets rested and still gets on the pitch. It’s not an agenda, it’s obvious what’s been happening you either see it or not.
Is Mainoldo still boring on about this?
Robert Pires:
"To find the rhythm and the tempo, for me it took six or seven months. It was very tough, for me it was the aggression and intensity."
Robert Pires said he needed time to adapt to the physical nature of the Premier League
Pires said he initially thought he had made a mistake signing for Arsenal from Marseille because of the physical nature of the game in England.
He said: "It was my first game away at Sunderland and Arsene Wenger said 'Robert, I know you are a bit upset because you want to play but I prefer if you are on the bench and you can watch the game, the fight and the tempo'.
"After 20 minutes sat on the bench I said to myself 'what are you doing here?' because it was very, very difficult. I remember one tackle from Patrick Vieira and I thought this football wasn't for me.
"It was very difficult and it is about adaptation. If you play in France, Spain or Italy it is not the same football."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40686944
Right now this club needs to sign players who will
1) have enough quality to make the starting 11
2) does not need 6 months to adapt.
If we were serious about winning the league that is what we needed to do and we haven't. We got in two players, Fred will need a few months to get use to the league, Dalot probably needs 2/3 seasons at his age. So basically we went into the new season without strengthening the first 11, then wonder why we are 8th in the league.
My original OP is not really about Fred, it more about what is our transfer strategy. Why does Mourinho keep buying high price players that need time to adapt, this slows any progression we make. He rarely did this before with Chelsea. Maybe he would take a punt on someone like Kezman but it didn't cost the club £50m to take that chance. That is my issue.
You never concede defeat or admit your errors do ya
Keita has started 4 times and had 4 10-20 minute sub appearances. He's played 90 minutes once. Sunday was Fred's 3rd full game.
Every half decent player we want costs 30m+ sadly, and it's obvious Mourinho wanted 2 100% starting CB's but didn't get them.
If you can't get your first choices, you take what you can I guess.
We looked a lot better in midfield yesterday. Fred adds movement and a bit of dynamism. One touch pass and move at times, was good to see. Hopefully he keeps his place. Matic looked about 50 years old in comparison and was his usual slow, ponderous self.
Going forward should be Peirera, Pogba, Fred as the three.
Going forward should be Peirera, Pogba, Fred as the three.
For the reason he showed yesterday. He provides much needed energy, and is the link between Matic and Pogba.
I still think he's a bit erratic and seemed a bit unsure of what to do at times, but his energy is brilliant.
With confidence and more game time, I want him to become our tempo setter. Pogba and Matic made more passes than him yesterday, which is not a massive issue, but he should be orchestrating every move like he did at Shakhtar. He has the ability.
Having said that, I thought some of his passing in between the lines, which was a big attribute of his at Shakhtar was pretty good. Just needs a run of games now.
I still think he's a bit erratic and seemed a bit unsure of what to do at times, but his energy is brilliant.
With confidence and more game time, I want him to become our tempo setter. Pogba and Matic made more passes than him yesterday, which is not a massive issue, but he should be orchestrating every move like he did at Shakhtar. He has the ability.
Having said that, I thought some of his passing in between the lines, which was a big attribute of his at Shakhtar was pretty good. Just needs a run of games now.
You never concede defeat or admit your errors do ya
Keita has started 4 times and had 4 10-20 minute sub appearances. He's played 90 minutes once. Sunday was Fred's 3rd full game.
In hindsight it sounds good. But what I’m saying is one guy is clearly playing the other has spent the start of his United campaign in and out the team. Keita might not have finished a full game and he might not have started. But he’s consistently been in and apart of the team. Lukaku was ‘rested’ yesterday but was clearly in and apart of the team. How is spending 4 games away from the side adapting? It’s so poor and inconsistent it’s cost him his place in the national team.
We continue to avoid the obvious. Like why Andreas Pereira has been shunned out of the side. Anybody against Jose parade will say he’s adapting from two years in La Liga.
Pretty sure he's not doing it on purpose. We bought Sanchez, the definition of tried and tested in the PL, and he's not performing. Lukaku was a solid 20+ goal striker in the PL and look at him now. We buy kids, we buy from other leagues, we buy from the PL, none have settled all that well. At this point its obvious it's not purely a quality issue or a problem with adapting to a new league. Mourinho wants us to play a very specific way and he's asking for an awful lot from our players and it's taking them all time to get used to it. I don't think it really matters who we buy.
Fred plays 498 minutes this season - Mourinho is crap at signing, we should have bought someone ready to play most games
Keita plays 458 minuts this season - Klopp is a master football scout that does all the things right
No point in even bringing up Fabinho who looks miles off the pace in the PL and is clearly more suited to the CL at this point and will need time to adapt.
Mainoldo moans about everything.
One could certainly imagine people moaning about Fred being constantly subbed or brought on only in the last moments if roles were reversed. What kind of message is that to the player and his confidence etc etc
You're not going to find many who agree with you here and for obvious reasons, it's crap.
This level of foreign players getting time to adapt has certainly grown but that's largely through years of mistakes. All teams now do this when the option to do so exists.
Nah, they signed one of the best talents in Germany for that role.
He just needs time to adapt to the league.
He is less stagnant than others. Play him more
Basically this.
Fred plays 498 minutes this season - Mourinho is crap at signing, we should have bought someone ready to play most games
Keita plays 458 minuts this season - Klopp is a master football scout that does all the things right
No point in even bringing up Fabinho who looks miles off the pace in the PL and is clearly more suited to the CL at this point and will need time to adapt.
Fred plays 498 minutes this season - Mourinho is crap at signing, we should have bought someone ready to play most games
Keita plays 458 minuts this season - Klopp is a master football scout that does all the things right
No point in even bringing up Fabinho who looks miles off the pace in the PL and is clearly more suited to the CL at this point and will need time to adapt.
I find it funny how we want to laugh and joke about a manager and team that is making shit look like diamonds whilst all our players look like shit on wheels. But it’s an agenda lol.
You’d think we where doing something right.
I hear you. We’re just waiting for our signings to adapt to United. So we are kind of in the same boat. Just a couple league position below. But I follow.