Who will want to sign for us this summer with Moyes in the job?

We can't say that because players sign for managerless clubs or clubs which quickly change managers, they will also sign for us. Those players and their agents know that if the managers at Real/Bayern/Chelsea etc. aren't successful they will be replaced with a better manager very quickly. So Hazard didn't sign because of a specific manager at Chelsea, he probably only talked to the Chelsea board. Even Bale probably hardly talked to Ancelotti, but rather the board/Perez. Ancelotti is a top class manager, but even if they had a nobody, Bale would have signed for them because everyone knows that this nobody manager wouldn't be at Real for long.

At United it's different. Players could be afraid of our awful football and league position this season, and on top of that absolutely nobody knows yet how long United will accept mediocrity. Therefore it will be difficult to attract top players with Moyes and we will sadly see that this summer.
 
united_99 said:
We can't say that because players sign for managerless clubs or clubs which quickly change managers, they will also sign for us. Those players and their agents know that if the managers at Real/Bayern/Chelsea etc. aren't successful they will be replaced with a better manager very quickly. So Hazard didn't sign because of a specific manager at Chelsea, he probably only talked to the Chelsea board. Even Bale probably hardly talked to Ancelotti, but rather the board/Perez. Ancelotti is a top class manager, but even if they had a nobody, Bale would have signed for them because everyone knows that this nobody manager wouldn't be at Real for long.

At United it's different. Players could be afraid of our awful football and league position this season, and on top of that absolutely nobody knows yet how long United will accept mediocrity. Therefore it will be difficult to attract top players with Moyes and we will sadly see that this summer.
Click to expand...


Absurd rubbish and only applicable if you think Mata is not a good enough player.
 
Twigginater said:
Absurd rubbish and only applicable if you think Mata is not a good enough player.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Mata had completely different motives to join United and was in a completely different situation at Chelsea than our other targets will be. If you ever left your red tinted United glasses behind you and maybe for a short journey even dared to leave the PL behind you and take the perspective of a talented player playing in Spain or Germany, you might get where I am coming from.
 
R0nald0 said:
My point was just how many 'top top' players have we signed in the past? We're a club who have always bought potential and turned them into world class players, we've never really gone out and bought the very best in the world. These type of players (think Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson etc etc) are still attainable for us so I don't see an issue with us attracting players we would have bought under the great one.

One thing I do like is that we seem to be trying to attract the top players now under Moyes at least. The attempt to get Cesc and Thiago and our pursuit of Kroos shows that - whether we can get these I'm not sure but under Fergie, we probably wouldn't have even tried!
Click to expand...
It's a valid point. Even with arguably the best manager of all time we didn't/weren't capable of buying at the top end of the market with any sort of consistency. Our transfer record was £30m odd until January. Personally I think it's surprising that people actually think we're going to be able to buck that trend in one window. I can see a lot of people being disappointed by the names we end up getting, even though they'll be good players.
 
jem said:
Actually it's not a stupid point. You're shifting the goalposts here. You asked how we would be able to attract top players with a manager like Moyes. Well Mata is a top player (whether or not we needed isn't really the point, at least as far your initial question goes.) If we were able to sign him (again it doesn't matter if Moyes was ultimately responsible for it; we signed him with his knowing that he would be playing for Moyes,) then there is no real evidence to suggest we won't be able to sign top players due to Moyes' presence.

As Kid Moyes said in answering the question that you asked (your disagreeing doesn't mean he didn't answer,) money is most likely to be the determining factor in getting players to come to United.
Click to expand...

Yes, but did we need Mata more than he needed us? Mata probably would have gone anywhere cos he needed to play. And the board thought they needed a signing to get the fans off Moyes' back for doing such a terrible job and he was available. Plus Mata knows he will still be around if Moyes rightfully gets sacked in the summer.

Did Moyes attract any players that we really needed last summer? No, he didn't and we got Fellaini. And why else would we sign Mata when we needed players in other positions? He wasn't exactly a priority, was he? We could have tried to sign Matic, a midfielder who we needed more than Mata, since we already have Rooney and Kagawa. Matic was available in January and we didn't even make a bid for him.

Crashoutcassius said:
All of that is irrelevant since we're not talking about whether we needed him, we're talking about whether big players will sign for moyes. People were saying no big player would sign for moyes blah blah and then looked like total idiots when one of the biggest players in the whole league signed for him. If you believe that Fergie signed Mata I don't even know what to tell you, get a reality check, Fergie didn't manage man united in January (right?????!!!)
Click to expand...

So if SAF had nothing to do with signing him, Moyes broke our transfer record on a player we didn't actually need?

But as you can see above, Mata signed for us cos he needed to play. No doubt he's a good player, but strengthening his position was not a priority, far from it. There are other areas where we really need new players.

And let's face it, he was desperate to get out of Chelsea and go anywhere. A total idiot would ignore why he really signed for us or believe Mata came to us cos Moyes was in charge.

JustAFan said:
And don't forget SAF has great signings and rubbish ones. Not saying Moyes will do anywhere near as well as SAF, because I don't think he will, but not every signing will be great even for the best managers.
Click to expand...

All managers make good or bad signings. But if they are the wrong player in the first place, like an average, slow, overpriced midfielder who sometimes plays up front as a battering ram, then it's never going to work out, is it? Did SAF play Veron in his best position? Or Kleberson, Djemba? Yes, he did and they weren't good enough.
 
Last edited:
Alock1 said:
l think the manager only really becomes an important factor when he's one of the elite few who people may particularly want to play for. Mourinho, Guardiola et al. I don't think it's a key factor for the majority of signings though. Ferguson was a pull for a few players, but we missed out on plenty of elite players who would go to play for far lesser managers than him.

I don't really see the need for this thread though, or the angle taken. Why not ask why anybody would want to sign for a team who plays in Manchester?
Click to expand...

No, this is about attracting top players to our club or the inability to do this cos of the manager, not about City or living in Manchester.

Yes, we missed out on top players when SAF was around, but would you say this for footballing reasons? After the piss poor job Moyes has done with our team, isn't that another reason for them to turn us down?

And shouldn't we have an elite manager who players want to play for?
 
How many fecking threads we need on a topic?
 
Steven Seagull said:
No, you've quite literally plucked half the post out your arse. It's fiction
Click to expand...

So that moment last summer when we signed Baines...oh, wait...

Unless of course you can find anything at all where he said he wanted to go to United?
 
A1X said:
We already failed to get Baines, he turned down United because he didn't want to work with Moyes. None of them have exactly champed at the bit to get here. And even if they did, why would they want to step down (something that simply won't change until Moyes goes)?
Click to expand...

:lol: Wtf is this?
 
We are done as a football team, we might as well wind down the business and get what money we can for the assests
 
bobbyf said:
Yes, but did we need Mata more than he needed us? Mata probably would have gone anywhere cos he needed to play. And the board thought they needed a signing to get the fans off Moyes' back for doing such a terrible job and he was available. Plus Mata knows he will still be around if Moyes rightfully gets sacked in the summer.

Did Moyes attract any players that we really needed last summer? No, he didn't and we got Fellaini. And why else would we sign Mata when we needed players in other positions? He wasn't exactly a priority, was he? We could have tried to sign Matic, a midfielder who we needed more than Mata, since we already have Rooney and Kagawa. Matic was available in January and we didn't even make a bid for him.



So if SAF had nothing to do with signing him, Moyes broke our transfer record on a player we didn't actually need?

But as you can see above, Mata signed for us cos he needed to play. No doubt he's a good player, but strengthening his position was not a priority, far from it. There are other areas where we really need new players.

And let's face it, he was desperate to get out of Chelsea and go anywhere. A total idiot would ignore why he really signed for us or believe Mata came to us cos Moyes was in charge.
Click to expand...
The problem is that you started one thread and then completely changed your thesis with subsequent posts. You'll get no disagreement from me regarding Moyes' lack of ability, nor will I necessarily disagree that Mata was a luxury signing. However, whether it's a player's desperation to play or, more likely, the lure of money, I don't think Moyes will be an impediment to our signing the kind of quality players that we need.

Herrera, for example, looked very excited to come last summer. Our failure to sign him, or Baines for that matter, had little to do with the magnetic pull of Moyes, and much to do with a lack of decisiveness on our part. Fabregas wouldn't have come, even if SAF were still around.
 
Players don't sign for the manager unless they're close friends. Chelsea managed to sign players when they had no manager at all and City signed top talent when they were struggling to stay in mid table. Football is either about loving a club and wanting to represent the shirt or playing for money or personal glory.
 
jem said:
The problem is that you started one thread and then completely changed your thesis with subsequent posts. You'll get no disagreement from me regarding Moyes' lack of ability, nor will I necessarily disagree that Mata was a luxury signing. However, whether it's a player's desperation to play or, more likely, the lure of money, I don't think Moyes will be an impediment to our signing the kind of quality players that we need.

Herrera, for example, looked very excited to come last summer. Our failure to sign him, or Baines for that matter, had little to do with the magnetic pull of Moyes, and much to do with a lack of decisiveness on our part. Fabregas wouldn't have come, even if SAF were still around.
Click to expand...

I haven't changed anything cos the Mata signing is still relevant to this argument and incidentally, I didn't bring it up. Plus how do you know Herrera wanted to come? He was quoted as saying he was pleased to be linked with us, that's not the same.

And I disagree that Moyes will be an impediment. Clearly the players are not happy with his inability to adequately manage them and potential signings will probably pick up on this. I think there are a lot of factors when joining a club and playing for the right manager is an important one. To dismiss this would be silly. From their point of view, he has totally failed this season with a top team and shown nothing to prove he's good enough for the job. Maybe if they think he would be sacked sooner rather later they might still sign. Possibly.
 
Im more worried about woodward and the boards ability to act quickly and sign players after last summer - im hopefully I will be proved wrong though and we see some deals pre world cup.
as for signing world class players im afraid I still remember veron all too well - simply buying proven players is no guarantee that they will work in a new team.
 
Q: but how will we attract anyone of quality after such a poor league season who will want to play for this manager?

A: we signed Mata at one of our lowest ebbs (if anything, our prospects have improved slightly since then.)

Unless you don't consider Mata to be a quality player, then the question has been answered and the conversation has been resolved.
 
A1X said:
Well you're clearly worth debating with. Thanks for that insight.
Click to expand...
But you honestly believe that Baines didn't come because he didn't want to work with Moyes? I have no idea what his real motivations were, but to me, the real problem was continual dithering and insistence on 'splitting the bid' for Baines and Fellaini. Had we come right out and offered 20+ for Baines (not sure whether that would've been a good idea, but still...), he'd be getting ready to face his old team next weekend.
 
A1X said:
Sorry for me because I have opinions which differ from yours?
Click to expand...

It wasn't stated as an opinion, though - more like a facht. And even if we consider it an opinion, it's a baseless one. As others have said, Baines was about money, dithering and/or a foolish idea about getting in both Fellaini and Baines on a double deal. There is nothing whatsoever to suggest Baines didn't want to play under Moyes.
 
Twigginater said:
Well it's good to see you remain so positive.
Click to expand...

Hard not to be a little apprehensive after last summer. While weeks went by and nothing happened I told to a lot of worried people that it's still early, we'll get players, etc. But it turned out Moyes was full of hot air. So who knows.
 
The manager situation must be addressed before we can dream of new quality players.
 
Gannicus said:
The manager situation must be addressed before we can dream of new quality players.
Click to expand...
This, really.

We won't go far as a club with Moyes in charge with any player (unless it's someone in the caliber of Ronaldo, but let's be realistic) unless he makes a dramatic turnaround in his football philosophy and coaching style, which after 15 years of persisting with it in Everton which saw him "successful" (in terms of moving Everton forward as a club but not to a degree of actual success in trophies), I doubt he's going to change.
 
Amir said:
Hard not to be a little apprehensive after last summer. While weeks went by and nothing happened I told to a lot of worried people that it's still early, we'll get players, etc. But it turned out Moyes was full of hot air. So who knows.
Click to expand...
That wasn't entirely down to Moyes. When Moyes walked into OT he asked for the database of transfer targets and was met with a blank stare. There wasn't one. Fergie had a network of scouts who reported personally to him and no one else. Nothing was recorded. That's not a criticism of Fergie, that's just how he worked and it served him ok. Moyes and Woodward however, had absolutely nothing to go on as regards targets and had to rely on Fergie's scouts supplying them with whispers about this and that players. As it turned out, Fabregas' agent was whispering in their ear but it was only a ruse to strengthen his position at Barcelona.

This Summer will see whether we can attract top quality players with Moyes in charge (assuming he still is).
 
Rednotdead said:
That wasn't entirely down to Moyes. When Moyes walked into OT he asked for the database of transfer targets and was met with a blank stare. There wasn't one. Fergie had a network of scouts who reported personally to him and no one else. Nothing was recorded. That's not a criticism of Fergie, that's just how he worked and it served him ok. Moyes and Woodward however, had absolutely nothing to go on as regards targets and had to rely on Fergie's scouts supplying them with whispers about this and that players. As it turned out, Fabregas' agent was whispering in their ear but it was only a ruse to strengthen his position at Barcelona.

This Summer will see whether we can attract top quality players with Moyes in charge (assuming he still is).
Click to expand...

What is the world is that! So we did not have a database of targets but we had the scouts, didn't we? Could he not have got the information directly from them? That is such a lame excuse to defend his awful performance in the transfer window. So is that what he is doing behind the scenes? Getting the iPads ready to get the database of targets which we so crave. Is that the sum total of his behind the scenes improvement?

They can hire me for that. I will set 'em up with all the databases and information they after the scouts provide it to me. And I will not cost 1/100th of what they are offering Moyes.
 
NK86 said:
What is the world is that! So we did not have a database of targets but we had the scouts, didn't we? Could he not have got the information directly from them? That is such a lame excuse to defend his awful performance in the transfer window. So is that what he is doing behind the scenes? Getting the iPads ready to get the database of targets which we so crave. Is that the sum total of his behind the scenes improvement?

They can hire me for that. I will set 'em up with all the databases and information they after the scouts provide it to me. And I will not cost 1/100th of what they are offering Moyes.
Click to expand...
Yes, he did get the information directly from the scouts but it was duff information - hence the ludicrous pursuit of Fabregas.

As for the database of targets, Barcelona has a whole department of 18 people involved in identifying targets from a very early age and monitoring every facet of their personal and playing life throughout their career.

Maybe you should offer your services to Barcelona and save them some money! ;)
 
sun_tzu said:
Im more worried about woodward and the boards ability to act quickly and sign players after last summer - im hopefully I will be proved wrong though and we see some deals pre world cup.
as for signing world class players im afraid I still remember veron all too well - simply buying proven players is no guarantee that they will work in a new team.
Click to expand...

Amongst all the hysteria last year Woodword was getting slated (and rightly so for the way transfers were conducted) but here we have a young fella with almost genius ability. He might have been bitten once but I'd be surprised if he'd allow this to happen again.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, he did get the information directly from the scouts but it was duff information - hence the ludicrous pursuit of Fabregas.

As for the database of targets, Barcelona has a whole department of 18 people involved in identifying targets from a very early age and monitoring every facet of their personal and playing life throughout their career.

Maybe you should offer your services to Barcelona and save them some money! ;)
Click to expand...

Duff information? What does that even mean? So the information provided by our scouts which helped us get the likes of Ronaldo, Nani, Chicharito and deemed good enough by Ferguson is not enough for Moyes? He is just hiding behind a wall of excuses to hide his incompetence at every level and stage.
 
This reeks hipocrisy, where's the pride of blowing only what we earned? Now our answer to everything is simply "throw them more money, more money, more money"

Isn't it only last year people brag about "players that wants to play for us" and all that mumbo jumbo bravado bullshit? Rentsky? Mercenaries? How 8mths under Moyes changes alot of things eh.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, he did get the information directly from the scouts but it was duff information - hence the ludicrous pursuit of Fabregas.

As for the database of targets, Barcelona has a whole department of 18 people involved in identifying targets from a very early age and monitoring every facet of their personal and playing life throughout their career.

Maybe you should offer your services to Barcelona and save them some money! ;)
Click to expand...

Rednotdead said:
WTF???!!! "They have a whole 18 people involved"??? WHO is "18 people"??? How do you know what they've been doing??? How do you know "they have been monitoring every facet of their personal and playing life throughout their career?" Do you have friends on the Barcelona board? Do you have the ears of the Barcelona board?
Click to expand...


Rednotdead said:
Clearly you're not prepared to answer the questions posed. If you're going to post drivel at least make some sort of attempt to back it up.
Click to expand...
 
@Sky1981 I have to say it took me a while to understand what that was all about. Funny! ;)
 
I don't think Sky 1981 has taken his Prozac today.

I think he confused it for his "try to be funny" pill.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.