Who was worse - Rangnick or Ole?

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Ole had a disaster this season, but the couple of seasons prior were really good, at times. We were outstanding on the counter and for the most time, looked like we were going to score.

Rangnick, on the other hand, spoke well but never backed it up. I didn't see any form of structural pressing, and the counter attacking threat that we once had was non-existent. We very rarely looked like we were going to score and just looked so disjointed in attack. Apparently, we need a new squad to be able to do that, though.

All in all, it has to be Rangnick. Excuse after excuse and piss poor results.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Bit of an overreaction over one sentence, no?

Pardon me if I've offended you with the length of my comments. I've never been good at one line zingers. Never got into Twitter because I still can't craft a thought in fewer than 140 characters. It's no surprise to me though. Once had a professor cross off an entire paragraph of a term paper as superfluous.

 

[El Jefe]

Rangnick's supporters might be the most dishonest part of the fanbase we've ever had. Below are the common lies or misconceptions peddled about by his fanbase

1. Top four was a long shot when he joined - Look at the league table when he joined
2. He joined midway through the season - Ole managed 17 games, while Ralf managed 29
3. He was brought in to expose our frauds - No he was hired as interim manager until the end of the season
4. He's responsible for the club recruitment Ten Hag - John Murtough was responsible along with the team that conducted interviews for the HC position, Ralf was not involved.
5. The players stopped listening to him after 30mins vs Palace - He gave up , the piece in The Athletic said he regretted abandoning his approach.
6. Pep/Klopp couldn't have got top 4 with this squad - Conte made it with a worse squad
7. Ralf has done a good job - worst win percentage of a Manchester United manager in 50 years

I could honestly list many more of his failures and how they are spun on Ole, the players and his coaching staff. Yes United and the aforementioned parties have been a shitshow but Ralf has the honour of being the biggest fraud post Fergie.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Pardon me if I've offended you with the length of my comments. I've never been good at one line zingers. Never got into Twitter because I still can't craft a thought in fewer than 140 characters. It's no surprise to me though. Once had a professor cross off an entire paragraph of a term paper as superfluous.

I thought you might've replied to the wrong post as your reply was full of assumption that the other poster hadn't even mentioned

 

[TOKUGAWA-X]

Rangnick has been the worst United manager since SAF left.

He didnt make the team play like everybody thought Ralf was gonna be able to do and on top of that it seems like he didnt get along with anyone.

Its like he divided the squad and to me thats unforgivable.

And yes he also thought Chris Armas an MLS coach was gonna be enough for United, i am so glad he is gone.

 

[InspiRED]

Rangnick's supporters might be the most dishonest part of the fanbase we've ever had. Below are the common lies or misconceptions peddled about by his fanbase

1. Top four was a long shot when he joined - Look at the league table when he joined
2. He joined midway through the season - Ole managed 17 games, while Ralf managed 29
3. He was brought in to expose our frauds - No he was hired as interim manager until the end of the season
4. He's responsible for the club recruitment Ten Hag - John Murtough was responsible along with the team that conducted interviews for the HC position, Ralf was not involved.
5. The players stopped listening to him after 30mins vs Palace - He gave up , the piece in The Athletic said he regretted abandoning his approach.
6. Pep/Klopp couldn't have got top 4 with this squad - Conte made it with a worse squad
7. Ralf has done a good job - worst win percentage of a Manchester United manager in 50 years

I could honestly list many more of his failures and how they are spun on Ole, the players and his coaching staff. Yes United and the aforementioned parties have been a shitshow but Ralf has the honour of being the biggest fraud post Fergie.

What a ridiculously strange addition to your post this is that adds zero value to any points you have made. Well done.

 

[Amarsdd]

Everyone here saying Ole assembled the squad, so he's worst. But if and when ETH makes us playing much better than Ralf with majority of the squad still playing, then will you guys reconsider that opinion? Just curious cause when Ole was here everyone was saying we'd be doing much better with this squad with a better manager and now Ralf has done worst than Ole, everyone seems to have changed their tune.

I'll give it one last attempt to get answers/opinions on this. Its not a gotcha, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[vlad93]

Ole had no sense. He took the only midfielder Donny out and we let In many goals because we couldn't hold possession . Ragnick had better tactical sense and zeroe checkbook.
I don't think geggenpressing was Alex Fergus ons style. We liked attack and counters.
The coach were getting likes tactical passing so expect to see better ball control.
Guardiola is a baldie who meets a fellow school yard bully . If we can hold onto the ball and tippy tacka the shite out of man city then I will be delighted.

 

[largelyworried]

I'll give it one last attempt to get answers/opinions on this. Its not a gotcha, I'm genuinely curious.

If ETH comes in and does better, then that will tell us he's better than both Rangnick and Ole. It won't really tell us anything new about whether Ole was better the RR, or vice versa.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I mostly blame the players but Ragnick was not good either. But i'd rather move on then pick through these bones. It's ETH time now.

 

[charlenefan]

If ETH comes in and does better, then that will tell us he's better than both Rangnick and Ole. It won't really tell us anything new about whether Ole was better the RR, or vice versa.

that's not what he asked

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Again, comparing Ole and Ralf is utterly pointless.

What we should ask is: what was Ralf meant to do?

Get 4th? Assess the squad? Assess the operation (the "football side" we keep talking about)? All of the above?

What exactly?

From an outside perspective, it seems utterly idiotic to bring in Ralf as some kind of damage control figure, whose only task was to make the most of what he had in front of him, nothing long term - just squeeze whatever he could out of what he was given.

Some of us were happy with Ralf - because we thought he was not hired as a damage control type of interim. We thought it reflected well on Murtough - taking it as a positive sign: as in, he realizes that something is fundamentally wrong here, and he has brought in Ralf not for his coaching ability (let's say his ability to squeeze points out of an obviously deficient team) but rather for his ability to identify what's wrong with us on a grander scale.

 

[largelyworried]

that's not what he asked

He asked if some people would reconsider their opinion, I explained why I wouldn't.

 

[R'hllor]

Twist, spin, turn as much as possible but when dust settles and recency bias tones down, Ole will be remembered as biggest damage dealer to United post SAF. Also attempts to call anyone that voted for Ole as Ralf cultist is funniest shit ever, doubt there are more than few that think RR did a good job, you actually have to be mental to even say that imo.

Thing is people say RR failed and did a bad job but he still didnt do more damage than Ole, not to mention that you shouldnt even try to compare 6 months interim manager with zero wasted money vs 3 years of wasted time, 300mil spent and all other failings but RR is only target for you because if you aim for others, you will be slapped with how Ole won feck all etc.

 

[charlenefan]

He asked if some people would reconsider their opinion, I explained why I wouldn't.

He asked if people would reconsider their opinion of the squad

 

[R'hllor]

He asked if people would reconsider their opinion of the squad

How when squad wont be the same

 

[charlenefan]

How when squad wont be the same

Reply to the person asking the question not me

 

[haru krentz]

Twist, spin, turn as much as possible but when dust settles and recency bias tones down, Ole will be remembered as biggest damage dealer to United post SAF. Also attempts to call anyone that voted for Ole as Ralf cultist is funniest shit ever, doubt there are more than few that think RR did a good job, you actually have to be mental to even say that imo.

Thing is people say RR failed and did a bad job but he still didnt do more damage than Ole, not to mention that you shouldnt even try to compare 6 months interim manager with zero wasted money vs 3 years of wasted time, 300mil spent and all other failings but RR is only target for you because if you aim for others, you will be slapped with how Ole won feck all etc.

Are you telling me had we appointed Antonio Conte instead we wouldve been still finishing the season this bad??

 

[largelyworried]

He asked if people would reconsider their opinion of the squad

I’m happy for him to clarify but he said

Everyone here saying Ole assembled the squad, so he's worst. But if and when ETH makes us playing much better than Ralf with majority of the squad still playing, then will you guys reconsider that opinion?

and I still read that quite clearly as him asking about our opinions on the managers.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

comparing a manager who started from the start of the season and failed to one who started in the middle with major issues, way to go

See I've a suspicion all the major issues you'd mention are from the rangnick PR team. Usual rubbish about how the players weren't fit enough to not get stuffed by Brighton. Embarrassing how easily our fans buy into it

 

[charlenefan]

I’m happy for him to clarify but he said



and I still read that quite clearly as him asking about our opinions on the managers.

@Amarsdd

 

[Amarsdd]

I’m happy for him to clarify but he said



and I still read that quite clearly as him asking about our opinions on the managers.

Both squad and manager cause most are using the squad to justify Ole is worst.

How when squad wont be the same

The majority will be the same. I'd assume at least 7/8 if not more regular starters next season will be from the current squad.

 

[largelyworried]

Both squad and manager cause most are using the squad to justify Ole is worst.


The majority will be the same. I'd assume at least 7/8 if not more regular starters next season will be from the current squad.

See my earlier post for my view then.

 

[city-puma]

Twist, spin, turn as much as possible but when dust settles and recency bias tones down, Ole will be remembered as biggest damage dealer to United post SAF. Also attempts to call anyone that voted for Ole as Ralf cultist is funniest shit ever, doubt there are more than few that think RR did a good job, you actually have to be mental to even say that imo.

Thing is people say RR failed and did a bad job but he still didnt do more damage than Ole, not to mention that you shouldnt even try to compare 6 months interim manager with zero wasted money vs 3 years of wasted time, 300mil spent and all other failings but RR is only target for you because if you aim for others, you will be slapped with how Ole won feck all etc.

I have read here so many times for the nonsense, ole wasted 300 mil. What’s the logic and reasoning about it? What does it really mean? Are you the one to think all of players transferred in are completely useless and ETH will not use them at all?

 

[InspiRED]

Both squad and manager cause most are using the squad to justify Ole is worst.


The majority will be the same. I'd assume at least 7/8 if not more regular starters next season will be from the current squad.

Pretty sure the answer you are after is 'Ole was a much better manager than RR'. It's comical how you think this is some kind of watertight logical checkmate despite everyone pointing out to you the conditions are missing to make any meaningful comparison. Maybe RR would have done worse in the same conditions, who knows.

Why don't you just say 'I think Ole was a much better manager than RR'. Fair enough. There you go, job done.

 

[izak]

I voted Ole but even I know Ole would have at least gotten us top four dispite not starting the season well.

 

[R'hllor]

Are you telling me had we appointed Antonio Conte instead we wouldve been still finishing the season this bad??

Are you telling me had we appointed Antonio Conte or traffic con instead of Ole we wouldve still go this backwards? Nobody is saying that RR did a good job, at least not me, guy failed hard but his damage to United is nothing compared with Ole`s 3 years of total waste.

 

[I’m loving my life]

Again, comparing Ole and Ralf is utterly pointless.

What we should ask is: what was Ralf meant to do?

Get 4th? Assess the squad? Assess the operation (the "football side" we keep talking about)? All of the above?

What exactly?

From an outside perspective, it seems utterly idiotic to bring in Ralf as some kind of damage control figure, whose only task was to make the most of what he had in front of him, nothing long term - just squeeze whatever he could out of what he was given.

Some of us were happy with Ralf - because we thought he was not hired as a damage control type of interim. We thought it reflected well on Murtough - taking it as a positive sign: as in, he realizes that something is fundamentally wrong here, and he has brought in Ralf not for his coaching ability (let's say his ability to squeeze points out of an obviously deficient team) but rather for his ability to identify what's wrong with us on a grander scale.

This, times 100000

Unfortunately many people nowadays are completely short term in thinking and don’t have capacity to see beyond what has happened in the last few months/a year.

Unfortunately many MUFC fans cannot comprehend that we are dying as a football club if we persist with reactive appointments (ie Conte to get us 4th) and will throw a tantrum

Hiring Ralf was appealing to many of us because of his knowledge of football club structure and building/rebuilding clubs. We could see this was the only way to try a long term approach, and listening to some of what he has said, he is thinking along those lines (ie players not having capacity to follow instructions or play for the press)

Unfortunately there are some fans who cannot see beyond a few games and will throw tantrums and ignore the long term wellbeing of the club they profess to support. A case in point is the illogical campaign against RR which generally doesn’t analyse key variables such as the situation he had to work with in his short tenure as manager.

Unfortunately there will be fans that will throw tantrums if ETH struggles for a couple of games or 45 minutes of a game and will be vocal on the internet, providing a nice platform for the scum press to put pressure on the next manager, embolden certain players to revolt and ultimately hurt the PR of the club which might affect dividends. (I hope not but this is how fan culture can work these days)

 

[haru krentz]

I have read here so many times for the nonsense, ole wasted 300 mil. What’s the logic and reasoning about it? What does it really mean? Are you the one to think all of players transferred in are completely useless and ETH will not use them at all?

Any other manager will be hounded out if they performed half bad as rangnick

Are you telling me had we appointed Antonio Conte or traffic con instead of Ole we wouldve still go this backwards? Nobody is saying that RR did a good job, at least not me, guy failed hard but his damage to United is nothing compared with Ole`s 3 years of total waste.

You realised the reason why i brought Conte into this conversation is because people like you keep bitching about how bad ole in term of signings and coaching, no? "Ooh Ole wasted so much money on "X", "Y", "Z"! "Ooh Ole is such a waste because he had no clue about coaching". Etc, etc.
Yet here we are under the godfather of gegenpressing. Started with 2 points off Top 4 ended up with 13 points deficit and ZERO GD.

This, times 100000

Unfortunately many people nowadays are completely short term in thinking and don’t have capacity to see beyond what has happened in the last few months/a year.

Unfortunately many MUFC fans cannot comprehend that we are dying as a football club if we persist with reactive appointments (ie Conte to get us 4th) and will throw a tantrum

Hiring Ralf was appealing to many of us because of his knowledge of football club structure and building/rebuilding clubs. We could see this was the only way to try a long term approach, and listening to some of what he has said, he is thinking along those lines (ie players not having capacity to follow instructions or play for the press)

Unfortunately there are some fans who cannot see beyond a few games and will throw tantrums and ignore the long term wellbeing of the club they profess to support. A case in point is the illogical campaign against RR which generally doesn’t analyse key variables such as the situation he had to work with in his short tenure as manager.

Unfortunately there will be fans that will throw tantrums if ETH struggles for a couple of games or 45 minutes of a game and will be vocal on the internet, providing a nice platform for the scum press to put pressure on the next manager, embolden certain players to revolt and ultimately hurt the PR of the club which might affect dividends. (I hope not but this is how fan culture can work these days)

So tell me why does ETH seem so reluctant to heed advice from Rangick??

 

[redsunited]

Rangnick had no right winger(after greenwood left), injuries to central midfielders, injuries to strikers, hung out dry by players as a temp.

OGS had nothing to complain. He had the biggest squad, managed badly by not trimming the squad and saving money for transfers etc. Easily we should have finished in 3rd or 4th.

 

[R'hllor]

I have read here so many times for the nonsense, ole wasted 300 mil. What’s the logic and reasoning about it? What does it really mean? Are you the one to think all of players transferred in are completely useless and ETH will not use them at all?

He left most disliked bunch of cnuts in history of United, by buying some of them, extending their contract, not letting them go etc. I cant be bothered going player by player, actually better not even to mention some of his money wasters. ETH even if doesnt want to use them, might not have an option because we suck as selling and everyone saying how not all can be shipped out in one window.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You either judge them both based on everything they did for United or you judge them based on their interim jobs. Ole wins either way.

And anyone who thinks that the team Ole inherited was better than the one Rangnick inherited is suffering from a serious case of revisionism.

Better or not has nothing to do with it. Ole took over a team that was being strangled by Mou and gave them freedom to work which the players responded to. Giving too much freedom in the end didn't work so Ralf had to go the opposite route and tried to install discipline which the players didn't respond to. Who had the easiest/hardest job?

 

[Amarsdd]

Pretty sure the answer you are after is 'Ole was a much better manager than RR'. It's comical how you think this is some kind of watertight logical checkmate despite everyone pointing out to you the conditions are missing to make any meaningful comparison. Maybe RR would have done worse in the same conditions, who knows.

Why don't you just say 'I think Ole was a much better manager than RR'. Fair enough. There you go, job done.

calm down. I think it was obvious from my post that I think Ole did a much better job as a manager of United than Ralf. I just wanted opinions of people who made the squad as the basis to say Ole was worst (cause Ralf is easily the worst based on the statistics) and if/how/why it would change if ETH hit the ground running with majority of the same squad. But ofcourse, what was I even thinking expecting anything other than a hysterical answer like this on caf esp when it comes to Ole.

 

[R'hllor]

The majority will be the same. I'd assume at least 7/8 if not more regular starters next season will be from the current squad.

Well snitch and virus ( in eyes of CAF) wont be, so that would be huge for squad in general, its not all in numbers.

 

[studs]

Where did this assumption come from that RR was better than Ole? For me I didn't even know who RR was ontil he was mentioned on here so I definitely wouldn't of came to that assumption. Anyway this thread is pointless, three words is all that's need to solve this. Logic. Timespan and intermediate. Ole caused most damage to the club weather he was a better manager or not.

 

[charlenefan]

I voted Ole but even I know Ole would have at least gotten us top four dispite not starting the season well.

How's he worse then?

For the record though I don't think Ole was turning it around, certainly after the Watford game

 

[InspiRED]

calm down. I think it was obvious from my post that I think Ole did a much better job as a manager of United than Ralf. I just wanted opinions of people who made the squad as the basis to say Ole was worst (cause Ralf is easily the worst based on the statistics) and if/how/why it would change if ETH hit the ground running with majority of the same squad. But ofcourse, what was I even thinking expecting anything other than a hysterical answer like this on caf esp when it comes to Ole.

You got a weird definition of hysteria buddy. But I'll give you the answer again as politely as possible. It's a meaningless comparison.

 

[city-puma]

He left most disliked bunch of cnuts in history of United, by buying some of them, extending their contract, not letting them go etc. I cant be bothered going player by player, actually better not even to mention some of his money wasters. ETH even if doesnt want to use them, might not have an option because we suck as selling and everyone saying how not all can be shipped out in one window.

Please list all transfers in and out to let us know how you get 300 mil lost and wasted, item by item.

 

[R'hllor]

You realised the reason why i brought Conte into this conversation is because people like you keep bitching about how bad ole in term of signings and coaching, no? "Ooh Ole wasted so much money on "X", "Y", "Z"! "Ooh Ole is such a waste because he had no clue about coaching". Etc, etc.
Yet here we are under the godfather of gegenpressing. Started with 2 points off Top 4 ended up with 13 points deficit and ZERO GD.

Nobody is saying he didnt fail, i understand thats the only thread you can hold onto but like i said, even it shouldnt be compareable, Ole was worse by the damage he did in 3 wasted years.

 

[Amarsdd]

You got a weird definition of hysteria buddy. But I'll give you the answer again as politely as possible. It's a meaningless comparison.

Yeah, ofcourse its a meaningless comparison. That's why I wanted answers from those who thought it was meaningful as they were making that specific comparison based on that specific basis.