This is the issue when people read games rather than watch them. You look at the numbers post games and all you see is Mbappe scored a hat trick when in reality is that aside from his great volley goal, Mbappe and France were terrible. Argentina run circles around them for 75 minutes than their old asses got tired and let up. Claiming that performance was that good is absurd. It was an okay performance, and only okay because Mbappe ended up with 3 goals(2 penalties) otherwise his performance along with the team overall was mediocre.
Who is the better player: Mbappe or Henry?
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There are parallels between Mbappe and Rashford. Both have strayed away from what gave them their best seasons - running in behind. Now, they both come short and get on the ball more which they can be good at - but what they are some of the best in the world when it comes to pace and running in behind.
We can speculate why. It may be because they want to become a more well rounded player. It may partly be ego. They think they are better dribblers, creators, passers than they actually are.
We can speculate why. It may be because they want to become a more well rounded player. It may partly be ego. They think they are better dribblers, creators, passers than they actually are.
Hopefully you never get promoted so there is a limit to the amount of baffling takes you get to post on the main forums. Fingers crossed.
Henry is arguably the best forward to play in the PL, if not the best then one of them.
Mbappe played in Ligue 1. One of them has a long way to go to even be in the conversation with the other.
Mbappe played in Ligue 1. One of them has a long way to go to even be in the conversation with the other.
Henry, Ronaldinho overhyped... thrown in the same basket as Aimar... I'm going to look at some excel tables at work to feel better after reading the forum.
Can we ban anyone born after 1995 from the forum please.
Be careful, someone is going to quickly remind you of the world cup hatrick.
So many takes I don’t know what to do with… Henry was as much a result of media hype as Mbappe with the notable catch-phrase va-va-voom?he didn’t have flair and elegance? Ronaldinho was overhyped?!
Anybody making these claims cannot have been alive and watching football during that time. Mbappe was probably more spectacular at a younger age, but complete package wise Henry was way better. Maybe Mbappe can match or surpass him, but as it stands Mbappe seems like a speed merchant who will struggle more and more unless he develops his skill set.
Ronaldinho was an excellent player. He's overhyped in the sense many believe him to be amongst the greatest ever. Good yes, but not that good.
After 2006, his form deteoriated and he simply wasn't the same. He was quality between 2002-06, absolutely.
As for Henry's 'flair and elegance', it's very much a put-on. A show, finely crafted via intense marketing and PR.
Watch the 2006 CL interview and talk to me about elegance. Or his handball against the might of Ireland.
Henry desperately requires a review not as some pretentious artist, but rather as an efficient goal-scoring forward albeit with a sullen, entitled temperament.
Not an unfair appraisal about the Prem era. However, it's fair to state Henry had a very good Euro 2000. He was MOTM in the final and starred in the semi against Portugal.
Could not keep it up, however.
Keep 'em crossed, little man.
That's the crux of the comparison for me. Henry didn't really click into top gear until he was 24 and held through until about 28/29. Mbappe had been exceptional at 17-24, but has dipped at 24-26. Who knows if it's permanent or temporary? If Mbappe gets back to his best, but with the greater exposure of his club stage, then I think he moves into a different echelon. But if not, we are likelier to remember what could have been and view him negatively. And he won't get a dispassionate assessment of his career until he's retired.
Henry by a country mile, mbappe is a quality player but Henry was immense, his touch, dribbling and some of the goals he scored were outrageous, one more thing how can anyone say Ronaldinho was over hyped what a baller such a natural footballer
The mbappe World Cup final performance really is one of the most overhyped things I’ve seen. Two penalties, one of which he didn’t win, and the other he got from a shot that was going about 10m over the crossbar. His other goal was great, but honestly thought it was weak goalkeeping too. Compare that performance at statistical value with Henry’s v Real Madrid in the bernabeu and mbappe wins, but anyone who watched both games can tell you who the better overall player was, and is.
Puskas scored several goals in the 1954 World Cup though, including the final.
I think this is what happens when you always judge players based on their scorers. Mbappe was build up by the media to be a player he never was and everybody believed it because they saw the numbers. His spectacular pace helped as well since it is the favorite attribute of many fans. He's great but nowhere near the supposed level and IMO has yet to play a season on the level of prime Neymar, Hazard, de Bruyne, Salah, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, etc.
as big as it is, world cup final is still only one game.
Trezeguet also had similar numbers as Henry in seasons when he wasn't injured and that was for Juventus in Serie A, plus he actually scored the golden goal for his NT. you wouldn't say he was better than Henry because he has that huge goal over him. many players have such moments over some other players.
we'll have to wait and see whether this is all that is left from Mbappe. he'll still put good numbers, but his overall game is miles behind now and it's not just Real Madrid thing.
Trezeguet also had similar numbers as Henry in seasons when he wasn't injured and that was for Juventus in Serie A, plus he actually scored the golden goal for his NT. you wouldn't say he was better than Henry because he has that huge goal over him. many players have such moments over some other players.
we'll have to wait and see whether this is all that is left from Mbappe. he'll still put good numbers, but his overall game is miles behind now and it's not just Real Madrid thing.
Tbh you often see Ronaldinho omitted from top 5s and top 10s, but his peak was otherworldly. Weird one to single out as being overhyped.
What the hell does a 2006 interview have to do with his elegance on the pitch? And his handball; Messi directly scored with his hand once in La Liga, Scholes in frustration once handballed a goal against Zenit and got sent off. So what? The best players often have a dark win-at-all-costs mentality, or are poor losers. Again; it doesn’t tell me anything about their flair and/or elegance.
He was an efficient goalscorer, yes, but if you didn’t find Henry’s gliding around the pitch elegant, or can see the flair in moments like his flick, turn, and volley against us, then I really don’t know what to say.
Seems to me you’re reaching to justify your claim.
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Henry. There isn't a comparison.
Hated him for Arsenal, but a mesmerising player to watch.
Mbappe is similar stylistically, but comparing them in quality is absurd.
Hated him for Arsenal, but a mesmerising player to watch.
Mbappe is similar stylistically, but comparing them in quality is absurd.
Henry. Absolute class of a player.
At the time I dispised that Arsenal team but they were a great side.
At the time I dispised that Arsenal team but they were a great side.
It’s happened. The definitive worst take on the Cafe.
You’d think that it would be difficult, nay impossible, to identify such a thing on a forum. After all, what could be more subjective than than an aggregator of opinions about football where virtually all the viewpoints are from fans of particular clubs with no experience of professional football, or indeed elite sport of any kind.
Surely, in such an environment it would be difficult for any post to truly stand out as particularly egregious. And yet here we are.
What a time to be alive.
The problem with threads like this is nostalgic bias. People can't even accept that football was a joke in 2004 (and even more so, as you keep going back further into the past), compared to 20 years later, in every aspect, basically, and that present day is easily the highest level the sport has ever seen. If that blindingly obvious fact isn't even the general consensus, which would be an important factor when comparing two players from different eras, then you cannot expect any sort of real conclusions to be drawn from these threads.
It's similar to the Ronaldinho vs Neymar thread. Both had relatively short peaks at Barcelona, and I don't think there was anything Ronaldinho could do that Neymar couldn't (cultural impact is the only thing, I guess), and the latter was arguably more efficient as well, and had better numbers. Also did it in a much more difficult era...and yet it was 95-5 in favour of Ronaldinho.
It's similar to the Ronaldinho vs Neymar thread. Both had relatively short peaks at Barcelona, and I don't think there was anything Ronaldinho could do that Neymar couldn't (cultural impact is the only thing, I guess), and the latter was arguably more efficient as well, and had better numbers. Also did it in a much more difficult era...and yet it was 95-5 in favour of Ronaldinho.
Football was a joke in 2004..Ronaldinho was overrated..Henry was a PR creation...I'm going to have a lie down.
Quality control
If the best team in the world from 2004 time travelled to 2024, and had to play even this current United side, without any prep time, they'd get beaten easily. That's what my point was.
Yep, I’m sure peak Henry wouldn’t be able to handle a league that Dominic Solanke and Ollie Watkins both scored 19 goals in last season.
Puskas has never scored in a World Cup? He scored 4 goals in 1954 and was outstanding, big reason among many that Hungary didn’t win was because he was injured in the final.
It's like talking to a twitter bot.
Never got the hype around Mbappe, he's world class but he's not elite as fans of today think. It's a sad time for football at the moment as we managed to have 2 of the GOATS fight for the title at the same time.
Now we have Haaland and Mbappe who are a tier or so below.
Edit: Vinicious Junior would be a level above Haaland and Mbappe in my eyes. Well the Real Madrid version, not so much the Brazil version.
Now we have Haaland and Mbappe who are a tier or so below.
Edit: Vinicious Junior would be a level above Haaland and Mbappe in my eyes. Well the Real Madrid version, not so much the Brazil version.
He was electric from 75 minutes to 120 minutes, so that was more than a half of football in which he excelled. He was also good in the 2018 World Cup final, scored the first goal a teenager has scored in it.
You think this current United team beats the Chelsea, Arsenal and AC Milan sides of 2004?
They'd get absolutely thrashed by the 2004 United side, forget the rest.
Mbappe could still improve of course, but I can't believe that almost 30% already rate him above Henry.
Like I said, without any prep time, yes. Football has massively evolved. Those teams would get tactically outclassed by your average Premier League team today, even if those teams from 2004 were more naturally gifted.
I think this thread has lost its relevance in the last two years.
Mbappe should have been better than Henry but feel like he left it too late to move. If had gone to Spain or England at an earlier age and was playing much more competitive football week in week out, he'd have naturally developed his game more.
Instead he stayed in France during his formative years, believed his own hype, and probably didn't push himself like he should have done. We're seeing the result of that.
Henry is definitely better but kylian still has time.
Instead he stayed in France during his formative years, believed his own hype, and probably didn't push himself like he should have done. We're seeing the result of that.
Henry is definitely better but kylian still has time.
True, this is what I posted exactly two years ago and it's already sounding pretty silly to me.
Kids born in 2000 and beyond, that never got to watch the PL in 2004, are commenting on things they didn't even witness first hand.
You see these comments quite often, criticising that era as been poor quality, as if 2004 is comparable to the 1960's.
Just because it is 20 years since then, doesn't mean football has advanced much, the difference between the 70's to 90's is stark, but the difference between 2000's to now, not so much.
If anything, outside of Messi and Ronaldo, the early 2000's football was actually better.
All that has changed now is more advancements in statistics, high pressing tactics and tiki taka passing tactics.
If anything, the birth of strict Guardiola style tactics has actually decreased the quality of the individual. Players nowadays lack flair, creativity and moments of magic compared to the early 2000's.
It is a mistake that is made a lot, where people think everything improves as time passes.
You see the same thing with kids of today criticising 1980 - 2000 Basketball as being worse, when it was infact better.
It is also same with Mr Olympia, kids think it is better now because of recency bias. Dorian Yates from 1992 to 1997 walks through the entire Olympia competition of today. Lee Haney was Mr Olympia champion from 1984 - 1991. Thats between 40 and 33 years ago, and he would annihilate the competition of today.
In no way is Mbappe better than Henry. The fact he has never even competed in a top league shows that. Its easy to look good in a lower league, where the players are not burned out by summer time, thus letting players have more energy to perform in international competitions.
You see these comments quite often, criticising that era as been poor quality, as if 2004 is comparable to the 1960's.
Just because it is 20 years since then, doesn't mean football has advanced much, the difference between the 70's to 90's is stark, but the difference between 2000's to now, not so much.
If anything, outside of Messi and Ronaldo, the early 2000's football was actually better.
All that has changed now is more advancements in statistics, high pressing tactics and tiki taka passing tactics.
If anything, the birth of strict Guardiola style tactics has actually decreased the quality of the individual. Players nowadays lack flair, creativity and moments of magic compared to the early 2000's.
It is a mistake that is made a lot, where people think everything improves as time passes.
You see the same thing with kids of today criticising 1980 - 2000 Basketball as being worse, when it was infact better.
It is also same with Mr Olympia, kids think it is better now because of recency bias. Dorian Yates from 1992 to 1997 walks through the entire Olympia competition of today. Lee Haney was Mr Olympia champion from 1984 - 1991. Thats between 40 and 33 years ago, and he would annihilate the competition of today.
In no way is Mbappe better than Henry. The fact he has never even competed in a top league shows that. Its easy to look good in a lower league, where the players are not burned out by summer time, thus letting players have more energy to perform in international competitions.
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I'm not sure you what's the point you're trying to make?
A talent like Henry would be one of the best players in the world today at his peak. I'm not talking about an individual not being able to translate their game into modern day football. However, he played in a much weaker era compared to today, so what exactly makes him "far better" than Mbappé? Nostalgic bias.
Henry has retired quite a while ago, to be fair.
More entertaining doesn't equal better.
The same thing happened to football that happened to chess. It's much more efficient now. No margin for error, or you'll concede. There's a "solution" for every single situation the players can find themselves in. That's why it's "robotic" to a lot of people, which is understandable. The intensity is higher too. Tactical evolution post-2008/2009. Better medicide, sports science, etc.
It's true for basketball, as well, an example you brought up. Maybe it's not as entertaining, and that's a problem, but it's a higher level.
Yes, but unless people are attempting to predict Mbappe's future it would mean that they already have seen enough to conclude that he's better than Henry was. And that is crazy.
I disagree, its not at a higher level at all. Teams are required to run more now, it doesn't mean its better.
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