The majority of top quality players start their career as teenagers. Then you have Cleverley who started at 22.
Who are we going to sell?
- Thread starter Silverman
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Yeah, except for he didn't.
We have turned into the X Factor as well? If Johnstone is not good enough to challenge de Gea, we sign a new GK who is. We have 2 quality players in every position. Every season we improve on what we have. We keep on improving every season.
He is one of the best young keepers in the country, you aren't going to get much better as back-up. Who do you suggest as back-up? Lets buy Courtouis?
X-Factor? The feck are you on about?
What?! Your posts in this thread have been absolute dire. You don't need to have a number 2 to be class. In fact, you shouldn't - it will only create tension and waste wages. Bayern have who? Starke. Barca had Pinto. Yeah...real stellar names.
You clearly haven't watched any u21 games. Most of those names have a chance of still making it. If we went back 12months, most people didn't think Lawrence would be anywhere near the team. Statistically, you don't judge players by the time they're 19. Thats what, a year or two of top football? Think for once.
How many top clubs have 2 goalkeepers good enough for the first team? So far, only Real Madrid has this. Every other club has a keeper who's a backup to the first goalkeeper. If de Gea gets injured, we'll need backup. Johnstone/Lindegaard can be that backup. We may not need 3 goalkeepers, though, as the third keeper rarely gets to see first-team football for the team.
People question signings such as Kleberson and Djemba-Djemba. I question the signing of Varela, Buttner, Zaha and other similar players, because they were not kids when they were signed. If you sign some 15yo kid who you think might be a great player one day and it turns out he isn't, fair enough. But what is the logic in signing the players I mentioned. Players who are already fully grown men and average. If the standard for Manchester United is average then fine, but I would like the standard set higher.
JefferiesTube wants to sell him too. Ferdinand is already gone as well. I guess we could throw Rooney in goal.
You don't hit the age of twenty and then suddenly stop developing.
GKs for next season: de Gea, new quality backup to fight de Gea for no1 and the new signing Milinkovic as 3rd choice GK. What is wrong with that?
The fact that you don't need anyone to be fighting De Gea? He's improving each season and is becoming one of the best in the world. No need to pointlessly spend/stunt development when it's not needed.
Valencia
Cleverley
Young
Bebe
Anderson
Won't lose no sleep over them leaving.
Cleverley
Young
Bebe
Anderson
Won't lose no sleep over them leaving.
Milinkovic won't join us until the 2015/16 season. He'll spend the next season at his current club before joining the U-18's.
I'd like to know who that quality backup should be. I doubt there will be many wanting to be a backup to de Gea.
Hernandez- Needs more playing time, easily a 20 goal per season striker and he needs to be a starter.
Young- He is not good enough, even as a squad player, especially one that earns over 100k per week.
Zaha- Pointless signing for £15million but he never got a chance it seems, I'd sell him due to the fact his stock is still up.
Cleverley- Same as Young.
Welbeck- I think he can become a prolific striker but he's nowhere near Rooney or Van Persie level, I'd rather James Wilson take his place. We can get £15million for Welbeck easily.
Others that can go include, Buttner, Kagawa(unfortunately) and Anderson.
Young- He is not good enough, even as a squad player, especially one that earns over 100k per week.
Zaha- Pointless signing for £15million but he never got a chance it seems, I'd sell him due to the fact his stock is still up.
Cleverley- Same as Young.
Welbeck- I think he can become a prolific striker but he's nowhere near Rooney or Van Persie level, I'd rather James Wilson take his place. We can get £15million for Welbeck easily.
Others that can go include, Buttner, Kagawa(unfortunately) and Anderson.
We have to give Zaha more time IMO, he defiantly has something but just needs to focus his talent better, and by all accounts apply himself in training more, if LvG can't sort him out then off he goes, seems pointless taking a huge loss on him now, with so many other players needing go.
Welbeck won't go either I wouldn't have thought especially if Hernandez goes.
For me Anderson, Young, Buttner, Bebe, Cleverley, & Nani are priorities to get a fee for, and get them off the wage bill, but I reckon we'll struggle with a couple of them.
Every post you've made in this thread has been completely ridiculous.
You can't have watched any of our U21s yet you still want to sell a load of them? As well as a huge chunk of our squad players.
I'm not sure we should be selling many players, especially as we're yet to know how many players we'll get in. I also think that Van Gaal will want to give some of these players a chance to prove themselves. After all, most of the players you mentioned played big parts in us winning the league in 12/13 season. If Van Gaal can instil confidence back into the side, we could see better performances from these individuals. Having said that, I don't think we'd miss Young, Anderson and Bebe if we were to sell them, although I'd like to keep the latter and see how he performs in pre-season, after having such a great season on loan to Paços de Ferreira.
If we get all of the players in that we need I wouldn't mind us selling Bebe, Anderson, Young, Fellaini, Buttner, Petrucci and possibly Hernandez.
United have signed no midfielders - Fans want to get rid of 1st choice players. Logic.
Players mature and play their best at different ages. Two random players who hit their prime at 30-32 (and weren't defenders) are Drogba and Pirlo. Forlan won the golden boot at the last world cup at the age of 31.
That being said there's quite some time till Anderson hits 30.
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Definitely these three. Amos and Petrucci are both at the age where they're not going to make it here and should go. Vermijl is now 22 and been on loan in Holland this season, so van Gaal will have seen something of him. I could probably see him going if we rate Varela higher.
I also think a couple of first teamers might go. Young, Hernandez and Nani are all at the stage where they might seek first team games elsewhere.
Including the four who have already gone/retired, I expect the departures to be in double figures by the end of the window.
What did he do to warrant you calling him dog shit? I am missing something or is this just the yob abuse that Gibson was subjected to?
I am afraid you are right about the difficulty in moving on deadwood. Add in the time it'll take van Gaal to get a good read of the squad, and moving them on is going to take a bit more than we'd like.
Few footballers are going to admit defeat and willingly walk away from a career defining club like United for lower wages.
Bebe, Young and Cleverley are, in my opinion, not good enough to be squad players for us and should be sold. We've already lost three experienced players, and depending on who/how many we can sign, that six might have to be close to the lot in regards to who goes this season.
So, after that, the squad would be:
GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, Amos, Johnstone
DF: Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Evra, Keane, Varela, Buttner
MF: Mata, Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia, Powell, Zaha, Lingard, Lawrence, Anderson
FW: Rooney, van Persie, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson, Macheda
I think we could also chalk off Macheda, Anderson, and Buttner to lower that squad of players to 28 (and then not count the third and fourth choice keepers to give us 26 potential first-team players although a lot of them really aren't). Getting to the potentials who most people wouldn't want to lose, we have Zaha, Nani, Kagawa, and Hernandez. I really think changing too many players at once will be asking a lot for it to click right away, even if three or four of the new players are straight into the first team regardless of who leaves. It'll be the whole atmosphere and how the training sessions go that removing lots of old faces effects IMO (but more-so in the case of the latter names I mentioned).
Up until the last few seasons where our midfield became increasingly weaker, I always felt that we could field two completely different first 11's that would be capable of winning against at least the bottom half of the Premier League. At the moment, I don't think we can do that, mainly due to needing central defence and midfield signings.
Again, it is totally dependent on who and how many come in. We probably need at least four and I wouldn't be OK with say, Nani, Kagawa, and Hernandez being shown the door if we only signed two defenders and two midfielders.
Another interesting thought is how much would you want us to generate from these sales if they happen?
As a worst case amount of losses in terms of personnel with Nani, Kagawa, Hernandez, Zaha, Macheda, Bebe, Anderson, Cleverley, Young, and Buttner going, I'd want the club to at least gain £65million which would be able to account for two top signings such as Luke Shaw + a midfielder such as Fabregas (although I don't think we'll get him obviously).
So, after that, the squad would be:
GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, Amos, Johnstone
DF: Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Evra, Keane, Varela, Buttner
MF: Mata, Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia, Powell, Zaha, Lingard, Lawrence, Anderson
FW: Rooney, van Persie, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson, Macheda
I think we could also chalk off Macheda, Anderson, and Buttner to lower that squad of players to 28 (and then not count the third and fourth choice keepers to give us 26 potential first-team players although a lot of them really aren't). Getting to the potentials who most people wouldn't want to lose, we have Zaha, Nani, Kagawa, and Hernandez. I really think changing too many players at once will be asking a lot for it to click right away, even if three or four of the new players are straight into the first team regardless of who leaves. It'll be the whole atmosphere and how the training sessions go that removing lots of old faces effects IMO (but more-so in the case of the latter names I mentioned).
Up until the last few seasons where our midfield became increasingly weaker, I always felt that we could field two completely different first 11's that would be capable of winning against at least the bottom half of the Premier League. At the moment, I don't think we can do that, mainly due to needing central defence and midfield signings.
Again, it is totally dependent on who and how many come in. We probably need at least four and I wouldn't be OK with say, Nani, Kagawa, and Hernandez being shown the door if we only signed two defenders and two midfielders.
Another interesting thought is how much would you want us to generate from these sales if they happen?
As a worst case amount of losses in terms of personnel with Nani, Kagawa, Hernandez, Zaha, Macheda, Bebe, Anderson, Cleverley, Young, and Buttner going, I'd want the club to at least gain £65million which would be able to account for two top signings such as Luke Shaw + a midfielder such as Fabregas (although I don't think we'll get him obviously).
I'd keep Valencia, reckon he'd be a good reliable cover option. I'd let Anderson, Buttner, Young and Cleverley. If we get decent offers in for Hernandez I'd let him go and if we get replacements in then Nani too.
Can we sell the Tube?
Why is it ridiculous to want to have a strong squad?
Because everything you've suggested would weaken it, and you won't listen to reason. Strengthening the first XI is is one thing. Purging the majority of our squad players is ridiculous though. Welbeck, Cleverley and Kagawa are all good squad players. What rationale can you give for getting rid of all three of Lindegaard, Amos AND Johnstone? You're just quoting names for the sake of it.
Varela has had a very good season (and I've watched pretty much every game he played) so much so that I think he deserves a shot as back up to Rafael next season. What sense does it make to sell him a season after we bought him when he has actually performed well?
You don't appear to have a logical thought process behind any of your posts in this thread.
The very first post I gave my 2 reasons. Some of the players I don't think are good enough and the squad is too big. If you have a squad that is too big, there is the temptation to tinker and try to be a people pleaser. Its better to have a strong squad of 20-25, than a weak squad of 30-35. There is no European competition. We don't need such a big squad. I want to rely on the youth players as back up and not reserves.
Macheda is gone to Cardiff, not sure if it's permanent or a loan though.
Perm. He was out of contract I think.
Permanent free transfer.
Yet you are wanting to get rid of Varela and Johnstone. You clearly don't know much about the young players at the club.
What exactly does that last line mean either?
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Heh. What's wrong with it is that bringing in a keeper good enough to fight De Gea for the number one spot is extremely unrealistic. Who do you have in mind - Neuer? We have perfectly good back-up options and it's senseless to get rid of any of them if they aren't unhappy. Lindegaard is an excellent reserve keeper - the fact that he isn't in contention for the No1 spot is irrelevant.
It is just my choice of who to keep and who to sell. If I want to make the squad smaller I have to choose someone. Other people make their choices of who they want to sell. 18 might sound too many but most of them are reserves. Another reason I want to sell so many is to benefit the under 21s. I would rather we have teenagers playing for the under 21s and not 21-23yos. I want 2 senior players in each position and then have youth players as back up. They get their chance if needed. I would rather Janko be the 3rd choice RB and have Rafael and Valencia as 2 RBs. If you want to keep Varela, then who would I sell instead of him? Rafael or Valencia? I like both of those players so I don't want to sell either of them. For LB we have Evra, Buttner, James, but I would like Rodriguez to strengthen and we have Rodriguez, Evra and James. so 2 senior LBs and RBs and a youth back up for each position. And we have 2 different types of LB and RB so better options.
Sir, you posting standards are quite pitiable. Please consider being less childish and spastic as we all hope you can contributing meaningfully to this forum in the future.
So, tell us what you think about Varela to want to ship him out as opposed to someone like James or Henriquez or Petrucci or Cole.
Milinkovic won't be even our 4th choice even if he comes this season.Sorry for being rude but don't smoke what you don't know.
Oh yeah, cheers! (Doesn't change the amount of money I'd expect us to get for the lot though
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