Who are the top 5 box-to-box midfielders of all-time?

B20 said:
I wouldn't put Pirlo or Xabi Alonso in - They are definitely deeperlying midfielders. Xavi roamed the range of the pitch though. He just didn't fly into tackles or bust a nut to get on headers while doing it. Same job, different style.
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Probably you mean during Spain 2008 run? In his younger years he hovering more around the pitch, but his natural style was running the game from deeper positions. He popped in the box some times and scored some important goals, but wouldn't put his attacking game up there with some of the other players mentioned like Matthaus, Kaiser, AdS playing in that role in terms of goal threat.

Xavi's defensive game was pretty solid and he's the best central playmaker I've ever seen - he'd be capable to play in a more direct B2B role, but would suit him more running the game from the center of midfield.

If you are going by roaming around the pitch we can easily qualify Cruyff as well as B2B in the discussion.
 
B20 said:
I wouldn't put Pirlo or Xabi Alonso in - They are definitely deeperlying midfielders. Xavi roamed the range of the pitch though. He just didn't fly into tackles or bust a nut to get on headers while doing it. Same job, different style.
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Still no. He was effective in Barca's pressing system — put him in midfield two with Scholes and he would look odd. Still great because of his quality, but definitely odd as he would be expected to make defensive runs, dispossess opposing midfielders, cover for your defenders etc.
 
re. Di Stefano. He's un-classifiable a true glitch in the matrix. You could put him in 4 different lists through the centre of the pitch and all of them would be both wrong and right at the same time. For the sake of argument, he's both fit and unfit to be listed, which is why I skipped him completely. Yes, you can scratch your head trying to decipher this paragraph. :lol: should be about as confusing as trying to define Di Stefano is.

re. Xavi. If you're using him as a true box-to-box midfielder, you're both wasting him and not getting the best out of him. Covering areas of the pitch arbitrarily is nothing like thundering from one part of the pitch to the other with the exact same level of intent and execution. Xavi was no more competent in defence than he was in attack, either. His game is based around his phenomenal neutral play, smack bang in the middle of the pitch. Outside of that, he is not going to impact on a game in anything like one would expect a true b2b to. You ask him to play like Neeskens, Matthaus, Robson, Falcao, Keane, Masopust, Souness or any other proper b2b midfielder who could be mentioned in such company, and it would be a shambles. On the other hand, the majority of these players could imitate Xavi's play to varying degrees of effectiveness - none would be par with him (although Falcao could easily get close), but they wouldn't look completely lost like Xavi would doing their traditional jobs.

Xavi belongs in a different kind of thread alongside the likes of Scholes, Saurez (Spain), Netzer and so forth. That's their expertise and where they separate from the pack.
 
Fortitude said:
re. Di Stefano. He's un-classifiable a true glitch in the matrix. You could put him in 4 different lists through the centre of the pitch and all of them would be both wrong and right at the same time. For the sake of argument, he's both fit and unfit to be listed, which is why I skipped him completely. Yes, you can scratch your head trying to decipher this paragraph. :lol: should be about as confusing as trying to define Di Stefano is.

re. Xavi. If you're using him as a true box-to-box midfielder, you're both wasting him and not getting the best out of him. Covering areas of the pitch arbitrarily is nothing like thundering from one part of the pitch to the other with the exact same level of intent and execution. Xavi was no more competent in defence than he was in attack, either. His game is based around his phenomenal neutral play, smack bang in the middle of the pitch. Outside of that, he is not going to impact on a game in anything like one would expect a true b2b to. You ask him to play like Neeskens, Matthaus, Robson, Falcao, Keane, Masopust, Souness or any other proper b2b midfielder who could be mentioned in such company, and it would be a shambles. On the other hand, the majority of these players could imitate Xavi's play to varying degrees of effectiveness - none would be par with him (although Falcao could easily get close), but they wouldn't look completely lost like Xavi would doing their traditional jobs.

Xavi belongs in a different kind of thread alongside the likes of Scholes, Saurez (Spain), Netzer and so forth. That's their expertise and where they separate from the pack.
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Agreed.

For me it ruins the great discussion I've read thus far of the great B2B'ers if we start adding the likes of Xavi, just doesn't make logical sense to me.
 
This really does suggest a generational divide, which is interesting and in fact quite enjoyable. Some interesting names that conjure debate, some in my opinion as somewhat far-fetched when considering a 'best-ever' (Redondo , who is / was one of my favourite players of recent times... but best ever??)

Bryan Robson for me. An astonishing player. Every aspect of the game, absolutely and utterly immense.
 
Schneckerl said:
Maybe you could point out what part you disagree with first instead of insulting others?
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Your overreaction to my overreaction was as a result of his initial overreaction in a previous post. If you'd spent more time reading previous posts instead of trying to play Mother Teresa on here then an overreaction fest could have been prevented.

In response to your question - I just loved watching Seedorf play live on TV. He kept it simple. Yes of course he wasn't the type who covered every blade of grass like Roy Keane but always seemd to be on the ball and controlling things and keeping it simple and scored plenty of beauties from outside the box along the way. Not exactly B2B but if people are mentioning Pirlo and Xabi Alonso as brilliant box to box players then I thought I'd throw him in there.
 
Someone on the debate was saying that box to box midfielders are old fashioned. The most recent good one being Yaya Toure.

Dunno how true this is. But certainly interesting. Think Gerrard was very good in his day.
 
DreamIsh said:
Someone on the debate was saying that box to box midfielders are old fashioned. The most recent good one being Yaya Toure.

Dunno how true this is. But certainly interesting. Think Gerrard was very good in his day.
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I think Toure was a defensive midfielder who had a spell at City when he could easily be classed as box-to-box. In his previous 10-12 seasons his goalscoring record would suggest a limited attacking force.

Gerrard no argument.
 
Fortitude said:
re. Di Stefano. He's un-classifiable a true glitch in the matrix. You could put him in 4 different lists through the centre of the pitch and all of them would be both wrong and right at the same time. For the sake of argument, he's both fit and unfit to be listed, which is why I skipped him completely. Yes, you can scratch your head trying to decipher this paragraph. :lol: should be about as confusing as trying to define Di Stefano is.

re. Xavi. If you're using him as a true box-to-box midfielder, you're both wasting him and not getting the best out of him. Covering areas of the pitch arbitrarily is nothing like thundering from one part of the pitch to the other with the exact same level of intent and execution. Xavi was no more competent in defence than he was in attack, either. His game is based around his phenomenal neutral play, smack bang in the middle of the pitch. Outside of that, he is not going to impact on a game in anything like one would expect a true b2b to. You ask him to play like Neeskens, Matthaus, Robson, Falcao, Keane, Masopust, Souness or any other proper b2b midfielder who could be mentioned in such company, and it would be a shambles. On the other hand, the majority of these players could imitate Xavi's play to varying degrees of effectiveness - none would be par with him (although Falcao could easily get close), but they wouldn't look completely lost like Xavi would doing their traditional jobs.

Xavi belongs in a different kind of thread alongside the likes of Scholes, Saurez (Spain), Netzer and so forth. That's their expertise and where they separate from the pack.
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Just thinking about others and people like Billy Bremner, Johnny Giles, John Wark were all equally effective at both ends of the pitch.

Interesting, although I wouldn't call then box-to-box, Giggs and Beckham did an enormous amount of defensive work and then the next minute would shooting at goal. Exciting times!
 
Jeffthered said:
This really does suggest a generational divide, which is interesting and in fact quite enjoyable. Some interesting names that conjure debate, some in my opinion as somewhat far-fetched when considering a 'best-ever' (Redondo , who is / was one of my favourite players of recent times... but best ever??)

Bryan Robson for me. An astonishing player. Every aspect of the game, absolutely and utterly immense.
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I think the term 'box to box midfielder' was invented for a player like Bryan Robson. He was something else. In his prime I'd say that Gerrard could match him. But where Robson wins it for me is that he quite often replicated his United performances on the international stage. Sadly, I can't say the same about Stevie.
 
Well, if Di Stefano counts, then Valentino Mazzola should count double :D
 
redman5 said:
I think the term 'box to box midfielder' was invented for a player like Bryan Robson. He was something else. In his prime I'd say that Gerrard could match him. But where Robson wins it for me is that he quite often replicated his United performances on the international stage. Sadly, I can't say the same about Stevie.
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Robbo was far better defensively and had far greater awareness in what was going on around him. Phenomenal player when fit. Didn't have a weakness in his game, really had the lot of was the type of player who could play anywhere on the pitch. if not for his injuries, United and England would have won a lot more silverware. For me he was a true box to box midfielder, a very rare breed.
 
I always remember discussing John Wark and Bryan Robson...would have loved it if Atkinson bought them both. Remi Moses was a super little player but more in a defensive role...Wilkins was ahead of his time and very much like Michael Carrick...

Wark and Robson would have been some combination.
 
Roy Keane
Edgar Davids
Patrick Viera
Clarence Seedorf
Steven Gerrard

In no particular order... Id take any of them currently at United.
 
luke511 said:
I may be a bit biased but there's not many midfielders in the history of football that can pull off the stuff Pogba does when he's playing at his very best.
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I don't disagree, but he needs to work on the defensive side of his game and be more consistent to be in the company of the other players mentioned here.
 
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