Who’s the best Brazilian player since Pelé?

Ronaldo

The competition is fierce. This is the nation that has produced the most talented players of all time, so no shame in not being one of the top 10
 
BarstoolProphet said:
But where do you get that they dislike him from? He was adored after that WC also. They entire country was mourning like their founding father had just died after the injury he sustained against Colombia.
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I'm not living in Brazil, it's just my impression from looking at the media and opinions on the internet.
Yes, this was the case in 2014. We had another tournament since then where Brazil failed to win the WC again.
The standards are high, the pressure is big. Neymar's time is running out. If you're someone who plays in Europe and never manage to bring back the WC, you just won't be as loved as many of the past greats Brazil produced.
 
I said it before but for the national team; Neymar has surpassed Ronaldinho and Kaka in terms of performance already.

Zico, Ronaldo and Romario are the gold standard since Pele. Rivaldo is an honurable mention.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
I said it before but for the national team; Neymar has surpassed Ronaldinho and Kaka in terms of performance already.

Zico, Ronaldo and Romario are the gold standard since Pele. Rivaldo is an honurable mention.
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No he hasn't? Neymar couldn't even win the copa america. His WC performance in 2014 is overrated, he did not assist or score in the knockout ties. Ronaldinho at least had that huge England game and Kaka won many tournaments.
 
the_irish123 said:
No he hasn't? Neymar couldn't even win the copa america. His WC performance in 2014 is overrated, he did not assist or score in the knockout ties. Ronaldinho at least had that huge England game and Kaka won many tournaments.
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He's going to be their record goal-scorer.

He's outperformed Kaka and Ronaldinho for his country.
 
Talent wise, Ronaldinho was the closest, maybe he was even more creative. Some of his gestures were just too unique to be ignored. Ronaldo was the most complete. Neymar should be right behind those 2 though. As talented Romario, Zico, Rivaldo or Kaka were at their peak, they're not as sparkling as Neymar when in form. He keeps the ball moving. Maybe he's not as good as Romario for goal scoring but I can't say Rivaldo or Kaka were better than Neymar, let's stop that.
 
Gasolin said:
As talented Romario, Zico, Rivaldo or Kaka were at their peak, they're not as sparkling as Neymar when in form. He keeps the ball moving.
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Have you even saw Zico? I actually like Neymar a lot, but there's no comparison — Zico was a better dribbler, passer and probably scorer as well. I can understand it if you prefer Neymar to Romario or Kaka aesthetically, but not Zico, he had everything that Neymar did and more.
 
harms said:
Have you even saw Zico? I actually like Neymar a lot, but there's no comparison — Zico was a better dribbler, passer and probably scorer as well. I can understand it if you prefer Neymar to Romario or Kaka aesthetically, but not Zico, he had everything that Neymar did and more.
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Goal scoring-wise, it is actually not even a debate. Zico scored more than 600 goals for club and country. That's a number not even Cristiano and Messi are sure to achieve. I always knew Zico was good but I never knew that he was such a goal threat. It completely blew my mind when I read it. The guy is probably the most underrated football player in history and deserves to be mentioned among players like Cruyff, Beckenbauer or Platini.
 
Gasolin said:
Talent wise, Ronaldinho was the closest, maybe he was even more creative. Some of his gestures were just too unique to be ignored. Ronaldo was the most complete. Neymar should be right behind those 2 though. As talented Romario, Zico, Rivaldo or Kaka were at their peak, they're not as sparkling as Neymar when in form. He keeps the ball moving. Maybe he's not as good as Romario for goal scoring but I can't say Rivaldo or Kaka were better than Neymar, let's stop that.
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If you were reducing the whole assessment to how good they were in a 1v1 with a full-back, manipulating the ball with close control at speed, then I’d agree with you.

In everything else though, he falls short of the Rs and Zico.
 
the_irish123 said:
No he hasn't? Neymar couldn't even win the copa america. His WC performance in 2014 is overrated, he did not assist or score in the knockout ties. Ronaldinho at least had that huge England game and Kaka won many tournaments.
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Kaka won many tournaments? Kaka has participate in zero Copa America and won a 2009 confederations cup same as Neymar. Kaka has a World Cup medal in which he played a grand total of 7 minutes and he doesn’t have any standout World Cup performances either.

Ronaldinho didn’t perform for Brazil like he did for Barcelona. His accolades are superior to Neymar but I remember when Ronaldinho got criticism for his performances for the NT.
 
Answering the thread "Who is the best Brazilian player since Pelé", my definite answer is Zico. Why?

No matter if he wasn't rewarded with a World Cup in the end unlike other contenders in this post; I have no doubt Zico was the best and more complete Brazilian player since Pelé. Romário depended on "inside the box" factor, Ronaldo at his peak relied on his explosive movements and huge physical strength to destroy his opponents, whilst Zico kept performing in top level for a long time and owned more resources compared to the others to make him a true legend, demonstrating outstanding midfielder features:

★ His goal scoring stats are out of this world - just bear in mind that his goal average is superior to some high-tier forwards like Henry, Van Basten, Cantona and Eto'o and, for his national team, his goal average outweighs even legends like Ronaldo and Romário. Never mind if it was "open play", "set piece", "left foot" or "right foot", Zico's ability to score was undeniably extraordinary, and it's even more incredible coming from someone who was a midfielder in his whole career.

★ His playmaking skills were just as incredible since he combined everything that is required for a true legendary playmaker: he could find unlikely spaces and play through balls with unbelievable accuracy thanks to his sharp vision and gifted technique, his speed/acceleration combined with his amazing dribbling skills could shatter defensive systems into pieces, he could set the speed of the match according to the necessity at the moment - he could launch lethal counter-attacks or dictate a slower pace and figure out tidy spaces like Xavi-esque, his teamwork awareness enabled him to make right decisions on the field regularly.

★ He was also a reliable guy when the match was decisive. Maybe the fact he didn't win a World Cup may mislead many people to think otherwise, but the truth is he was a truly game-changer overall. Do you all know the way Zico led Flamengo to a convincing victory over Liverpool, the European champion, in Tokyo? Or his goals/assists in the final match which were pivotal to give his team its first National Championships (1980, 1982 and 1983)? A classic example of this was when, in an away game, Flamengo faced Guarani, a team which had never lost a match at home in 1982, in the semifinal of Campeonato Brasileiro. Even after Guarani led the score 1-0, Zico left his mark again and scored a hattrick which allowed Flamengo to win that match 3-2 and make it through to another final.

Even when Brazil didn't succeed in achieving the result in WC, Zico was always there to give a breath of hope for the team. In WC'78, Zico scored a legal goal against Sweden in the last minute that was oddly denied. That goal would directly change Brazil's path in that WC and we wouldn't face the WC' champions earlier. Zico was also denied a penalty against Italy in 1982 which could make the difference in the game; not to mention Serginho wasted a golden chance at goalmouth thanks to Zico's assistance in the beginning of the game.

It's not for nothing he was known as "White Pelé" and rivalled Maradona to be regarded the best player in 80's, not rarely the odds were in Zico's favour as far as we could see here.
South-American footballer of the year - 1979 (El Mundo)
1st - Maradona
5th - Zico
Footballer of the year - 1979 (Guerin Sportivo)
1st - Maradona
South-American footballer of the year - 1980 (El Mundo)
1st - Maradona
2nd - Zico
South-American footballer of the year - 1981 (El Mundo)
1st - Zico
2nd - Maradona
Footballer of the year - 1981 (Guerin Sportivo)
1st - Zico
South-American footballer of the year - 1982 (El Mundo)
1st - Zico
3rd - Maradona
"World Soccer" footballer of the year - 1982
4th - Zico
Maradona out of TOP 10
"World Soccer" footballer of the year - 1983
1st - Zico
4th - Maradona
"World Soccer" footballer of the year - 1984
3rd - Zico
Maradona out of TOP 10

OBS: I took into account the period between 1979-84 because I thought Maradona was too young before that (when Zico was already elected the best South American player in 1977 and second one in 1976) and Zico was suffered a severe injury in 1985 that almost ended his career earlier (he stopped playing for about 1 year) and affected his style of play since then, a period when Maradona was regarded as the best player of the world in 1986.
 
Zehner said:
Goal scoring-wise, it is actually not even a debate. Zico scored more than 600 goals for club and country. That's a number not even Cristiano and Messi are sure to achieve. I always knew Zico was good but I never knew that he was such a goal threat. It completely blew my mind when I read it. The guy is probably the most underrated football player in history and deserves to be mentioned among players like Cruyff, Beckenbauer or Platini.
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To be fair, I'm quite disappointed to see in a football forum so many fans who don't have any clue about the true Zico's dimension. In Brazil, everyone who has no biased opinion and followed his career has no doubt he's among the greatest of all time. The only restriction, maybe, is those people who put a major importance into World Cup in order to set WC winners apart from non-WC winners, but it also means Messi suffers the same kind of comparison according to them.

By the way, despite Platini's undeniable success for Juventus and France, I rate Zico over him.
 
Scarlet_Emperor said:
To be fair, I'm quite disappointed to see in a football forum so many fans who don't have any clue about the true Zico's dimension. In Brazil, everyone who has no biased opinion and followed his career has no doubt he's among the greatest of all time. The only restriction, maybe, is those people who put a major importance into World Cup in order to set WC winners apart from non-WC winners, but it also means Messi suffers the same kind of comparison according to them.

By the way, despite Platini's undeniable success for Juventus and France, I rate Zico over him.
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It’s understandable, considering that he played in the 70’s/80’s and spent his prime in Brazil, so not many fans here saw him at his devastating best.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
He's going to be their record goal-scorer.

He's outperformed Kaka and Ronaldinho for his country.
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Neymar's NT stats is massively inflated by goals scored in friendlies. Out of 60, 41 is scored in friendly matches. That's close to 70%.
In comparison, R9's 62 international goals comprise only 23 goals in friendlies. (37%)

For current comparisons, Messi's 65 goals has 30 goals in friendlies. (46%)
Ronaldo's 85 goals has only 17 in friendlies. (20%)
 
Ronaldinho got me into football. So I have a soft spot for him. But I think Ronaldo might edge it.
 
Kasper said:
Neither was post-Pele.

Surprised at the voting result in the OP. Are brazilians very fickle and romanticize the past or do they sort of dislike Neymar? He has done plenty for the NT yet ends up below Kaka?
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We romanticize the past very much, how could we not, seeing the decadence of our national team in the last years. Look also at our 2006 team, despite playing badly, we got used to produce fantastic players so easily. Many players that were only in the second or third brazilian team in that time would quite easily be titular in our modern team, like Juninho Pernambucano, Djalminha, Evair, Edmundo and so many others. And many of us also dislike Neymar, seeing him as a spoiled, pathetic brat, man-child who will never reach the heights of the true greats. I can tell to you that Romário is specially idolized here.
 
Scarlet_Emperor said:
To be fair, I'm quite disappointed to see in a football forum so many fans who don't have any clue about the true Zico's dimension. In Brazil, everyone who has no biased opinion and followed his career has no doubt he's among the greatest of all time. The only restriction, maybe, is those people who put a major importance into World Cup in order to set WC winners apart from non-WC winners, but it also means Messi suffers the same kind of comparison according to them.

By the way, despite Platini's undeniable success for Juventus and France, I rate Zico over him.
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The three greatest players from the 80s: Maradona, Zico and Platini. I rate Zico the best or second best, only maybe behind Maradona. Zico was a genius, and I say a genius!!
 
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