His last season had us scoring 48 goals in 38 games in the league.
"didn't deserve to be sacked".
Which post-Fergie manager, given 5 years in charge, would have done the best?
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His last season had us scoring 48 goals in 38 games in the league.
"didn't deserve to be sacked".
I've expunged his dreadfully dull stuff from my mind mostly, but I'm pretty sure his "Philosophy" was to only shoot when it was a very high chance of scoring.
I'm not sure what the stats say, but we seemed to score very few goals, but a high percentage of shots!
But every home game seemed to be 0-0 at half time, and you count the shots on target with fingers on one hand usually.
People seem to forget he missed the basic requirement - top 4.
Mourinho nosedived the plane into the volcano and he had to be sacked, as he was by the clubs which employed him before and after United. But that’s not to suggest your factual observations aren’t true.
He had us playing tumescent football that was antithetical to everything United supporters want to see from the players. Speaking only for myself, I’d rather see us lose out on a trophy playing to win matches on the front foot rather winning trophies playing on the back foot hoping not to lose matches.
And Mourinho’s transfer acquisitions were quite poor, almost disastrous, to be honest. And if I’m not mistaken, he also wanted Maguire, who it’s fair to say now wasn’t exactly a shrewd acquisition by Mourinho’s successor.
There was nowhere with Mourinho to go but further down.
Ole, he had a rough spell and was fired prematurely. I will not be responding to further responses to this comment.
I’m not a ‘Jose fan’. If you read my post properly, you’d see I clearly said he’d have Utd playing ‘miserly football’.
Not exactly ‘swooning’, is it?
The question was / is IF BACKED which of Utd’s managers would have brought the most success, and my answer is Mourinho.
He’s the most objectively successful Utd manager post Fergie so it’s not exactly controversial.
I don’t like him or dislike him - I don’t care about him. I’m just answering the question.
LVG with a proper DOF and a solid recruitment team behind him would have been the ideal scenario.
Mou would be my second pic but I just think the place would have been too toxic with him staying on for more than three years.
Mou would be my second pic but I just think the place would have been too toxic with him staying on for more than three years.
Dumb logic regardless of which manager we're talking about.
Badly.
With financial backing and a good DOF Louis Van Gaal.
Under current model Mourinho.
Under current model Mourinho.
OLE :0
1) LVG
2) Rangnick
these two give youth a chance and look to build teams for the future which is the best recipe for long term success.
3) Moyes
Showed at Everton he can maintain consistency over a number of years.
4) OGS
5) Jose Mourinho
Short term fix long, term problems. Christ knows what state a club would be in if he was their for 5 years doubt he would have anyone to pick. has been our best manager post Fergie though.
2) Rangnick
these two give youth a chance and look to build teams for the future which is the best recipe for long term success.
3) Moyes
Showed at Everton he can maintain consistency over a number of years.
4) OGS
5) Jose Mourinho
Short term fix long, term problems. Christ knows what state a club would be in if he was their for 5 years doubt he would have anyone to pick. has been our best manager post Fergie though.
Worst one.
I hope you’re not suggesting that you’re on board with anti-football, even shitehouse, tactics if it means trophies.
Of course there has to be a balance between attacking football and pragmatism, but Van Gaal and Mourinho brought us football that was literally — and I do mean literally — hideous to watch. What would be the joy of watching grinding, shitehouse football for 90 minutes match after match, month after month, for a few minutes of joy watching a trophy being lifted?
We can’t even just assume without question that anti-football is the sure path to stuffing trophies in the cabinet. That kind of football isn’t what wins trophies today nor was it the kind of football that enabled United to win all those trophies under Ferguson. Mourinho’s tactics were already prehistoric by the time he came to OT and despite the two trophies he won, he was nowhere close to winning PL and CL and his brand of football was hideous to watch and contributed to the toxicity within the squad, who at least I believe were not on board with his shit.
Mkhitaryan an LVG signing? What? I'm fairly certain there were no links to Mkhitaryan whatsoever until well after Mourinho took over. If anything he just seemed to be an extra Raiola client that we picked up as the same time as Zlatan and Pogba.
Pogba had been most strongly linked to Chelsea the season previously while Mourinho was the manager, and then joined us when Mourinho was manager. That signing was something that both club and manager obviously agreed on. Sanchez...yeah, you might be right on that one. It does feel like a Woodward signing. Then again, an aging player who is past his best and on the decline also feels like a Mourinho signing, considering some of the other players that we know he wanted to sign at that time. Personally I expect that Woody saw the opportunity, but Mourinho happily said yes when the option was given to him.
Jose.
Football doesn't remember losers. Only winners are remembered regardless of which way of football they played to win.
And there's nothing called anti-football. Saying defensive football is anti-football is another dumb logic. There're multiple ways to play this sport.
Finally, this isn't related to Mourinho alone, I'm replying on your logic.
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LVG was the only one that didn't have his players down tools on him so he wins by default no matter how much people dislike his football.
None of 'em.
Probable that the decision was taken months before but I wonder if he would have been sacked if they gave him until end of season - maybe he still would due to ultimately missing Top4
I can't excuse the dire football and lack of goals but FA Cup and missing CL on GD would actually be a decent season nowadays!
The players had not given up on LvG like they seemed to with Moyes, Jose and Ole (and Rangnick)
I think another window would have seen much better football but who knows if he'd have lasted 5yrs
Van Gaal as he may have gotten us to play better in that time and he was the best tactically that we have had done Fergie.
Not sure Ole would have done any better than his first couple of seasons as there never seemed to any real growth around.
Jose had checked out after two seasons we would be near relegation if not relegated had he stayed five plus either him or a player would be up for murdering the other in that time
Moyes and Rangnick should never have been in the job in the first place keeping them any longer wouldn't lead to anything
Not sure Ole would have done any better than his first couple of seasons as there never seemed to any real growth around.
Jose had checked out after two seasons we would be near relegation if not relegated had he stayed five plus either him or a player would be up for murdering the other in that time
Moyes and Rangnick should never have been in the job in the first place keeping them any longer wouldn't lead to anything
Jose by some margin, should have backed him in the market and sold Pogba like he wanted to.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
He had one of the best runs post-Fergie and if I'm not mistaken probably has the most positive records too (yes, he has a few negatives but don't they all). He was the only manager who really loved United....perhaps it blurred his objectivity a bit.
He just had that bad run at the end and no chance to turn it around. I think if he had lasted till the end of the season, he would have taken a long hard look at himself and made some big changes. His biggest undoing was his staff...they were shite.
He had one of the best runs post-Fergie and if I'm not mistaken probably has the most positive records too (yes, he has a few negatives but don't they all). He was the only manager who really loved United....perhaps it blurred his objectivity a bit.
He just had that bad run at the end and no chance to turn it around. I think if he had lasted till the end of the season, he would have taken a long hard look at himself and made some big changes. His biggest undoing was his staff...they were shite.
Not 5 years but I would have given Carrick 5 more games
Never looked like he would want to stay 5 years though imo. He wasn't given what he asked for no but I don't think he would have won the league even so.
Your hypothetical is a bit far-fetched. You essentially give all of them 5 years regardless of what happens?
I don't think any manager can feel unfairly treated. Moyes had the arguably best circumstances and finished 7th after circus-like management. Van Gaal didn't have an epic collapse like Mourinho and Ole, but he did slowly kill us with his football that somehow got worse over time. I don't think there was any coming back for Mourinho and Ole with their respective collapses. They both had to go. Rangnick was just an interim and a poor one at that. And he's more of a "behind the scenes" person anyways.
The correct answer is that none of them would have cut it over a 5 year period.
If however our club was well-run from top to bottom then maybe Van Gaal could have made it work over time. There's an argument for Ole too. He was always good with the players and had a natural comeback-ability. Surround him with competent people and he could have become a new Ancelotti type of manager. That's all hypothetical, of course. I feel that I'm really grasping at straws when making a case for both of them.
I don't think any manager can feel unfairly treated. Moyes had the arguably best circumstances and finished 7th after circus-like management. Van Gaal didn't have an epic collapse like Mourinho and Ole, but he did slowly kill us with his football that somehow got worse over time. I don't think there was any coming back for Mourinho and Ole with their respective collapses. They both had to go. Rangnick was just an interim and a poor one at that. And he's more of a "behind the scenes" person anyways.
The correct answer is that none of them would have cut it over a 5 year period.
If however our club was well-run from top to bottom then maybe Van Gaal could have made it work over time. There's an argument for Ole too. He was always good with the players and had a natural comeback-ability. Surround him with competent people and he could have become a new Ancelotti type of manager. That's all hypothetical, of course. I feel that I'm really grasping at straws when making a case for both of them.
I cannot believe that 8 years after the fact this thread is still full of people baselessly claiming Moyes would have come good. Not only is there no evidence of this, there's a whole season's evidence that he would in fact do very badly! There's a whole career's evidence that the best he can do is upper midtable while never winning a single trophy and losing almost every big match. Face facts people, he was the wrong appointment from the get go and no amount of "stability" (which for him means trundling around 5th-8th and never winning a big game) would make a Moyes reign at United successful.
Anyway the answer to this question is probably LVG but he would have needed a better recruitment department. I guess I'm mostly basing this on his record in the biggest matches.
Anyway the answer to this question is probably LVG but he would have needed a better recruitment department. I guess I'm mostly basing this on his record in the biggest matches.
Completely, profoundly disagree. Feel free to live for football-shit-on-a-stick if you like but there are some of us who live for the beauty of the football performance, not the remorseless grinding of four performances that produce results. The perfect line splitting pass, speed off the ball, even the lunging tackle. We saw none of that under Mourinho, who gave us zombie football.
By your “logic” you’d be more than delighted to lift trophies no matter how dour the football would be that delivered a trophy. To each his own, but I’d rather not eat shit on a stick for a season.
Louis van Gaal would’ve gotten the most success in the long run with a proper DOF set up and not one that pandered to Woodward’s fancies.
A sustained winning culture is the sum of all parts - management - coaching staff - players. And unluckily for LvG, the management and recruitment were trash in his time.
Mou is a good shout but bar Real, he’s always burned bridges after a short stint of success. Moyes, Ole never had the pedigree of coaching a big team to win in the most competitive competitions.
A sustained winning culture is the sum of all parts - management - coaching staff - players. And unluckily for LvG, the management and recruitment were trash in his time.
Mou is a good shout but bar Real, he’s always burned bridges after a short stint of success. Moyes, Ole never had the pedigree of coaching a big team to win in the most competitive competitions.
Exactly. Being successful in sport is the most important thing. Everything else is secondary or means to an end.
And again, this sport can be played in multiple ways. Considering that there's only one proper way of playing a sport and anything else is anti-sport is an arrogant way of thinking.
Believe me it’s not. When United aren’t playing I watch a non league team & I’ve seen them win a league title once in the 25+ years I’ve been watching them. In that season they had a manager with an incredibly basic - but effective - hoofball style of play. It was absolutely hideous to watch and while winning the league was a great day, when I look back I honestly have better memories of the season before in which they’d been relegated and had a 30 match winless run during the season. Winning is the most important thing, I agree, but style and enjoyment matters.
LVG. The football just looked bad because he bought wrong but I can now see what he was getting at. At the time ignorance was high about any kind of organized play.
l o l at people saying Moyes 
Rangnick
Definitely not the guy who has never spent more than 3 seasons at any club.
It's LVG by default because the job would've always been too big for Moyes and Ole and they were basically memes by the end of their stints.
It's LVG by default because the job would've always been too big for Moyes and Ole and they were basically memes by the end of their stints.
I often wondered if Jose sometimes tried to get himself fired but I hardly think he allowed poor players to stay: he was the one who wanted Martial and Pogba out - and, wow, was he right to want that.
However, you are not totally wrong about RR. to be fair, he was given no chance whatsoever
People saying Van Gaal don’t make sense to me. First time as a United fan I genuinely wanted to just end a match 0-0 at half time because I couldn’t be bothered watching any more
Had Mourinho been allowed more control and players, probably wouldn’t have been the prettiest football, but we would have son trophies.
Because that wasn't actually what LVG wanted either. It only looked that way because he bought highly non-technical players. He clearly didn't know enough about recruitment to have it left to just he and Woodward. A proper structure and we'd have been among the first english teams to adopt organised build up play and ready to hand over strong foundations to someone even stronger, maybe similar principles but more direct like Pep or ETH. Since then we've gone on an entire fruitless merrygoround with kick and rush managers.
Gotta be Oliver, innit?