Which post-Fergie manager, given 5 years in charge, would have done the best?

Sandikan said:
It wasn't modern as such was it? It was painstaking possession with very little output.
But it was the only time in a decade we controlled games against almost every team we play.

As opposed to current versions where we may have more ball, but certainly aren't controlling anything, as seen by the likes of Norwich raiding through our centre mid like it's not there.
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We didn’t control anything. Teams would simply let us have the ball because we didn’t have a clue what to do with it.
 
Tavern in the town said:
We didn’t control anything. Teams would simply let us have the ball because we didn’t have a clue what to do with it.
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We did control the games. He actually stumbled across a good line-up by pure luck when RVP and Falcao were injured and we played City, Tottenham and a couple of other teams utterly off the pitch.

Unfortunately he couldn't build on it.

Best performance at Anfield in a decade or more too under him. Juanfield.
 
Jose quite easily.

We could have had over £100m for players we've given/trying to give away too in Pogba and Martial.

If the club has backed him for 5 years then I think he'd have put together a team of winners and rooted out all the soft touches that still plague us to this day. He was already on to 3 or 4 of them who nobody wanted to sell at the time but are now desperate to take any money for.

Moyes would have built us a respectable team with some of the £1b we've spent since I think and he could have done well if given plenty of time like he thought he had. I pick Jose because he has the pedigree and has proven it. He even has Roma playing good football at times, relative to the quality they have.
 
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Against the premise of the thread but all of them literally reached the point where it couldn’t be allowed to go further before we sacked them. It would’ve been downhill for any of them. So on that basis Jose is the answer because he was the most successful when he got sacked.
 
Jose
Moyes
LVG
Rangnick
Ole

IMO, you would have been a dogshit team to watch under Mou but I think if he was supported appropriately you would have had relative success (though I don't think you would have won the league vs this City/ Liverpool), Moyes a little less so because I don't think he has a top managers mentality, LVG would have at least ensured you could control a football/ possession and maybe evolved over time, Ralf I think would have been better behind the scenes but I would prefer to support him financially than Ole after seeing what he did with the money provided.
 
I'd say Rangnick would have done best in terms of winning some trophies but, just as importantly, also building an attractive and effective style of play and competent transfer structure that would continue benefitting us and future managers after those 5 years.

Mourinho might well have won the most trophies over 5 years but, as with everywhere else he's been, the sh*t would have hit the fan long before those 5 years were up and the dressing room would have been a nightmare. We'd have also had little long term planning during those 5 years so probably would be an aging squad left for the next manager, and a squad set up to suit Mourinho's pragmatic style.

So for the combination of on field and off field, short term and long term reasons, I'd go with Rangnick.
 
Man-United said:
Why LvG? His signings are the worst by any manager ever. Clueless.
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Were they his signings? I seem to recall him saying they were "7th choice on the list". This is a guy that managed Edgar fecking Davids and voted Roy Keane as the best midfielder in the world back in 2002

....and he ends up with Morgan Schniederlin and Ander Hererra (who was/is actually a very good player but hardly elite)
 
Jose without doubt. He should have stayed and the board should have gone
 
Don't think you can say Jose tbh. When he left the club we were arguably at our lowest point since Sir Alex left. Club morale was horrific, fan's were divided, we were in freefall, not sure why people think he could have turned it around or more importantly, wanted to turn it around. We were 11 points and 21 GD behind 4th place when Jose was sacked. Jose falls in the same bracket as Ole who had simply run out of time, there was very little to suggest Ole could have turned it around either.

When LVG was sacked we had at least just won a cup, our league form was pretty horrific but it wasn't all bad and he left with the club being somewhat stable. So despite his football being boring and usually sending me to sleep, i'd probably have to say LVG.

Rangnick and Moyes didn't have enough time to really provide a proper conclusion. But neither seemed to be heading anywhere, our football under both was inconsistent and both alienated a chunk of the squad.
 
RedSky said:
Don't think you can say Jose tbh. When he left the club we were arguably at our lowest point since Sir Alex left. Club morale was horrific, fan's were divided, we were in freefall, not sure why people think he could have turned it around or more importantly, wanted to turn it around. Jose falls in the same bracket as Ole who had simply run out of time, there was very little to suggest Ole could have turned it around either.

When LVG was sacked we had at least just won a cup, our league form was pretty horrific but it wasn't all bad and he left with the club being somewhat stable. So despite his football being boring and usually sending me to sleep, i'd probably have to say LVG.

Rangnick and Moyes didn't have enough time to really provide a proper conclusion. But neither seemed to be heading anywhere, our football under both was inconsistent and both alienated a chunk of the squad.
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well, Jose won more trophies than LVG and had the character to take on the suits upstairs who were doing sod all. that's probably the real reason they got rid of him
 
mitchmouse said:
well, Jose won more trophies than LVG and had the character to take on the suits upstairs who were doing sod all. that's probably the real reason they got rid of him
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I just edited my post. We were 11 points and 21 GD behind 4th place when Jose was sacked.

The point of the thread isn't to come up with what if statements about the board. It's to do with whether the Manager should have been given more time. When Jose left we were horrific, everything at the club was toxic and our results were miles off. In no way did he deserve another 18 months.
 
RedSky said:
I just edited my post. We were 11 points and 21 GD behind 4th place when Jose was sacked.

The point of the thread isn't to come up with what if statements about the board. It's to do with whether the Manager should have been given more time. When Jose left we were horrific, everything at the club was toxic and our results were miles off. In no way did he deserve another 18 months.
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and I think that toxicity came from above Jose. they simply wouldn't back him - and he's been proven right about some of the players he wanted to get rid of. He was a difficult bloke, yes, but look what having a Mr Nice Guy in ole got us
 
I would have liked to have seen Rangnick with a proper team in front of him and a football minded structure behind him but on the managers we have had Van Gaal for sure, you could at least see what he was trying to do on the pitch he just didn't have the players to properly implement it they just weren't good enough with the ball (actually what i am worried about with ETH). Same old story as well really that his performance in the transfer market was poor/didn't get the backing he thought he was going to get.
 
mitchmouse said:
and I think that toxicity came from above Jose. they simply wouldn't back him - and he's been proven right about some of the players he wanted to get rid of. He was a difficult bloke, yes, but look what having a Mr Nice Guy in ole got us
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The toxicity came directly from Jose. The only Manager who has a right to complain about not being backed imo is LVG. Jose and Ole were given far more money to spend while Moyes had the cash and didnt spend it.

Either way, personally Jose's time was done. Him bitching about the club after our CL loss in 17/18 after our form began to slump was the warning signs. If we really wanted Jose at the club, he should have arrived directly after Sir Alex was sacked, it was always destined to end in tears anyway, that's just Jose.
 
mitchmouse said:
well, Jose won more trophies than LVG and had the character to take on the suits upstairs who were doing sod all. that's probably the real reason they got rid of him
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Jose has completely fallen out with the dressing room and the board of every club he's been at for over a decade now, and the instant he starts getting under pressure he runs to the press and throws his players under the bus. We weren't some special case, he's simply become a vindictive man who self-combusts under criticism and goes out of his way to take the team down with him to prove a point. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that everything would have been so much different if he'd been allowed to sell two players (players who were regularly amongst out best at the time it should be noted).

Even in his early days when he was still at the top of his game he could only go a couple of years at a club before his man-management style would cause massive issues, so not sure why people think the version of Jose that we got could have lasted five successful seasons.
 
Ole would have been the most enjoyable and least successful. I think the LVG team could have gone either way. They looked very bad towards the end. Mourinhos team were good but boring... only fell apart when we lost zlatan... and Moyes... I think he lost the dressing room and that would happen again, but things might have been slightly different if he was backed from the start.
 
RacingClub said:
Jose
Moyes
LVG
Rangnick
Ole

IMO, you would have been a dogshit team to watch under Mou but I think if he was supported appropriately you would have had relative success (though I don't think you would have won the league vs this City/ Liverpool), Moyes a little less so because I don't think he has a top managers mentality, LVG would have at least ensured you could control a football/ possession and maybe evolved over time, Ralf I think would have been better behind the scenes but I would prefer to support him financially than Ole after seeing what he did with the money provided.
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You are entitled to your opinion but I do find it a bit odd that you have Mou first because of his success, and Ole last when he almost won the same european trophy and went out on penalty kicks against a much stronger Villarreal side than the young Ajax one that Mou bullied off the park.

LVG - Won silverware and laid foundations, had a clear vision of how he wanted to play but let down by poor signings, and his work undone by Woody appointing Mou. Also won a lot of the big games.
Jose - Won silverware albeit at a heavy cost, left us with an overpaid mess (Alexis broke our wage bill permanently)
Ole - Played the best football, almost won silverware, stayed too long
Moyes -Probably let down by the board but didn't help himself with his smugness since day 1, never had the dressing room, mostly just cross cross cross. Celebrated too wildly in the comeback against Fulham at home.
Rangnick - Did absolutely feck all. Tried to start with his 4222 philosophy and ended up having to rely on Fletcher and Phelan to bail him out.
 
MadDogg said:
Jose has completely fallen out with the dressing room and the board of every club he's been at for over a decade now, and the instant he starts getting under pressure he runs to the press and throws his players under the bus. We weren't some special case, he's simply become a vindictive man who self-combusts under criticism and goes out of his way to take the team down with him to prove a point. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that everything would have been so much different if he'd been allowed to sell two players (players who were regularly amongst out best at the time it should be noted).

Even in his early days when he was still at the top of his game he could only go a couple of years at a club before his man-management style would cause massive issues, so not sure why people think the version of Jose that we got could have lasted five successful seasons.
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the question was not who could last five years but the one who would have done the best if given five years. For me, Jose was much more likely, given his record, than any of the others
 
Zlatattack said:
Mourinho and we should have signed him immediately after SAF left.

We also made the mistake of sticking with LVG when Klopp was available.
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Klopp rejected united because he thought the club was more of a business than football stuffs
 
mitchmouse said:
the question was not who could last five years but the one who would have done the best if given five years. For me, Jose was much more likely, given his record, than any of the others
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Except the reason he doesn't last five years is because everything crumbles around him, to the point there is absolutely no coming back. If anyone thinks things got bad under Rangnick (who came into an incredible mess of others making), it would have looked like like a friendly family get-together compared to how it would have looked with Mourinho (who was creating that mess himself) staying any longer. Rangnick at least tended to make fair criticisms, albeit probably going overboard with how publicly he did it. Mourinho tended to be attacking the players who were actually performing at least somewhat decently, while protecting the players who were absolutely stinking up the place simply because they were a teachers pet. Hell, it got so bad there had to be strong suspicions that Mourinho was trying to get himself fired as quickly as possible so he could get out before his reputation crumbled even further.

Out of all the managers we've had, he was the least likely to turn it back around.
 
MadDogg said:
Except the reason he doesn't last five years is because everything crumbles around him, to the point there is absolutely no coming back. If anyone thinks things got bad under Rangnick (who came into an incredible mess of others making), it would have looked like like a friendly family get-together compared to how it would have looked with Mourinho (who was creating that mess himself) staying any longer. Rangnick at least tended to make fair criticisms, albeit probably going overboard with how publicly he did it. Mourinho tended to be attacking the players who were actually performing at least somewhat decently, while protecting the players who were absolutely stinking up the place simply because they were a teachers pet. Hell, it got so bad there had to be strong suspicions that Mourinho was trying to get himself fired as quickly as possible so he could get out before his reputation crumbled even further.

Out of all the managers we've had, he was the least likely to turn it back around.
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Given how bad the board, players and systems were at Man Utd, I wonder if Mourinho could have, uniquely, made himself the last man standing (along with the inevitable Glazers) so he remained while every player, coach and other employee around him changed instead!
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Feels good to have someone agree! Feels like so many posters are affected not by what they see but what they hear or are moved by narratives like Jose was always going to leave in a 3rd season crisis.

Or that Rangnick was clueless and was a horrible coach.

Fact is the players are a horrible bunch with little backbone or quality left. That's precisely what Rangnick and Jose were clear that they needed. Fact is the Glazers/Board didn't want to back them to do an actual overhaul.
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All I’m going to say is, fans continually bash our players’ attitude but still criticise Jose for making the dressing room toxic. Maybe, just maybe, the players’ poor attitude caused the toxicity rather than one of the best managers in history, and who funnily enough has been by far our best manager since Fergie too.
 
gerdm07 said:
Ole for me. I'll always wonder what last season would have been like if we didn't sign Ronaldo. Ronaldo has such a large personality and persona that he had a lot of influence with the other players, the front office and media. I think Ronaldo decided early that he didn't want Ole and that was that.

Having said that, I'm not sure Ole would have brought us the glory we want. He did, though, have us on a good trajectory until the Fall of 2021.

LvG: the most conservative and boring manager ever at United.
Mourinho: was never going to last more than 2 1/2 seasons no matter how much backing he got. He's a toxic manager in his old age.
Moyes: just not enough balls as the team needed a clear out and he was too afraid to rock the boat.
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I agree, United were at their best, played the best football and were quite likeable during the majority of Ole's tenure. He made a lot of mistakes and it all went sour but I think all the other managers mentioned were even worse.
 
mu4c_20le said:
You are entitled to your opinion but I do find it a bit odd that you have Mou first because of his success, and Ole last when he almost won the same european trophy and went out on penalty kicks against a much stronger Villarreal side than the young Ajax one that Mou bullied off the park.
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I don't have Mou first because of his success, it's because I believe he would be more successful over the 5 years than Ole (or Moyes, LVG and Ralf) would be if they were both provided with the same support/ resources.

I thought that was the whole idea of the thread?

Anyway I just think Ole is the weakest "manager" of the bunch though Ralf gives him a run for his money.
 
Sandikan said:
It wasn't modern as such was it? It was painstaking possession with very little output.
But it was the only time in a decade we controlled games against almost every team we play.

As opposed to current versions where we may have more ball, but certainly aren't controlling anything, as seen by the likes of Norwich raiding through our centre mid like it's not there.
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The only reason it was painfully boring was the players. When he found someone that could carry the ball ourt from midfield in Lingard it started to get better. Remember our frontline had a very young Rashford and Martial in it. Again we didn’t recruit well or give the manager what he wanted, not to mention he pretty much said in every press conference or post game performance that the intensity and pace of the passing needed to improve.

Just some rubbish the CAF started spouting that then became gospel that his football was old, doesn’t want us not trying penetrating passes. I mean at its heart it’s pretty much the basis of all the good modern teams.

To me given more time and a summer where he actually got his targets we’d be in a much better position now.
 
RacingClub said:
I don't have Mou first because of his success, it's because I believe he would be more successful over the 5 years than Ole (or Moyes, LVG and Ralf) would be if they were both provided with the same support/ resources.

I thought that was the whole idea of the thread?

Anyway I just think Ole is the weakest "manager" of the bunch though Ralf gives him a run for his money.
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It is, but his signings haven't been great either.

First season: Bailly, Zlatan, Mhkitaryan, Pogba
Second season: Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Alexis
Third season: Dalot (Pereira moved to Leicester same window), Fred, Lee Grant.

And he also wanted Maguire that summer. He can shithouse results sure but I'm just not seeing a trajectory where he'd be successful if 'backed'
 
mu4c_20le said:
He can shithouse results sure but I'm just not seeing a trajectory where he'd be successful if 'backed'
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Well he did have some success at United (more than anyone else) and he wanted some players that weren't brought in and wanted to ship out players who weren't shipped out so (once again) I'm not saying he would win the league , im not saying he did a good job but all things being equal I think he would do the best of that bad bunch.

Also I think Maguire would look better in a Mou side than he has done under Ole and Ralf.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
All I’m going to say is, fans continually bash our players’ attitude but still criticise Jose for making the dressing room toxic. Maybe, just maybe, the players’ poor attitude caused the toxicity rather than one of the best managers in history, and who funnily enough has been by far our best manager since Fergie too.
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We can all get revisionist on whether José was right and should have been backed. There's also a good lesson in how maybe he wasn't right but once you side with players vs manager you may have trouble with those players under any future manager.

Fact remains if you extend Mourinho to five years off the status on his last day... we could even end up in the Championship really.

In hindsight, the mix of our Board, our ragged band of deadwood (SAF) and misfit (LVG) players and Mourinho was always going to blow up in our faces.

If we do introduce ifs/buts and other tweaks then I'm still positive Mourinho post SAF would boss it. Squad was quality, Woody would support the key signings needed in a gradual rebuild and then love his relatively successful manager. All good.

We got Dave though, sacked all the staff and had Rio and Vidic watching clips of Phil Jagielka. FML.
 
Both Mourinho and Van Gaal start fits after a few years and derail themselves through their narcisism, so not them. That leaves Moyes, Ole and Rangnick.

Uhm, Rangnick I guess?
 
RedSky said:
I just edited my post. We were 11 points and 21 GD behind 4th place when Jose was sacked.

The point of the thread isn't to come up with what if statements about the board. It's to do with whether the Manager should have been given more time. When Jose left we were horrific, everything at the club was toxic and our results were miles off. In no way did he deserve another 18 months.
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At the point he was sacked he had purposely torn up the dressing room and was trying to get sacked.

It isn’t indicative of his tenure at Utd, and you know it.

The point is that if he (or any other manager) was backed for 5 years, where would Utd be.
 
Van Gaal. Also the only manager that didn't deserve to be sacked.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
At the point he was sacked he had purposely torn up the dressing room and was trying to get sacked.

It isn’t indicative of his tenure at Utd, and you know it.

The point is that if he (or any other manager) was backed for 5 years, where would Utd be.
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Jose fans are weird. Yes he did ok initially, but there's no point swooning over someone who painted the house only to burn it down a few weeks later. I don't get the love for him at all.
 
mu4c_20le said:
It is, but his signings haven't been great either.

First season: Bailly, Zlatan, Mhkitaryan, Pogba
Second season: Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Alexis
Third season: Dalot (Pereira moved to Leicester same window), Fred, Lee Grant.

And he also wanted Maguire that summer. He can shithouse results sure but I'm just not seeing a trajectory where he'd be successful if 'backed'
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That mixed bag is everything we've done wrong in a nutshell.

Mkhitaryan is an obvious LVG legacy signing.

Pogba and Sánchez are obvious Woody MU brand signings.

Rest looks quite Mourinho-like in tapping Portugal and previous players.

Maguire would also be a solid and top performing signing in a Mourinho side if you ask me. Also was in an Ole counter-attacking one. Not best suited to more modern styles.

You simply need to know what you are building towards and we haven't had that since Ronaldo left. SAF himself was no longer building jack as he plugged holes rather than make key signings. Whoever came next had to make those big ticket calls and he probably spent 2009-13 thinking "this one is the last" (thank feck so many weren't, not complaining).
 
LVG had we gotten someone in to oversee transfers and taken it away from him.

With the structure as is (Yet to see evidence of things being different now) Mourinho would likely have done the best, but the negative football and general negative energy he brought to everything would have been too much.
 
Mourinho without a doubt. He would at least have us winning trophies, be it the FA Cup or something regularly. The football might not be the best, but there is no doubt we would do better if he was backed.

Rangnick would be my last choice. I think even Moyes would have handled things better long term.
 
Rangick doesnt count for me.

Ole the worst purely because he won nothing at all which isnt acceptable and has two europa leagues which gave him an advantage in terms of trophies to win.
Also the squad we got now is as bad if not worse than ever. Think he spent the most too but im not sure on that?

Either way they all sucked.

Jose was the best all things considered but still deserved to be sacked.
 
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