Where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank in the All time list?

Where does C.Ronaldo rank in the All time list of greatest players?

  • A. Top 3 of all time

  • B. Top 10

  • C. Top 20

  • D. "Top 5 player all time? I'd say he's not top 5 in the past 25 years even."


Results are only viewable after voting.
Pele was the first ever player to be officially 'crowned 'the greatest of all time'...with many for decades believing that his brilliance could never be surpassed. In those days the World Cup was the pinnacle of a football career.....These days the Champions League is a far higher standard than the World Cup and that's why it is the real bar to measure the level of a player in todays game..

People argue that Messi and Ronaldo are not as good as Pele was as they haven't won the World cup but Pele was part of a Brazil team that was 3 times better than anyone else

I'd have Messi as being miles ahead of Pele any day of the week....He's just on a different level to what Pele was altogether....Pele, Maradona and CR7 though would be a tough choice for 2nd place with Pele perhaps pipping it
 
Average age of this place. They probably remember post 98 Ronaldo but not the phenomenon prior to the injury.

He was out of this world, alright, but the disappearing act in Paris was something else and rightfully taints his reputation.

He's still in the top 10, don't get me wrong.
 
I voted top 3 even though I think he's in the top 4 as of now, as I don't think top 10 does him justice. He may go up in people's estimation depending on what he achieves in the next few years, or after he retires (when players are always more appreciated).

I believe the top 4 of all time, in no particular order, is Messi, Pele, Maradona and Cristiano. I still feel that Pele is the greatest, but I don't think there is any wrong or right answer to that.
 
You could argue that CB's were better but I'd argue that teams defend better as a unit now which is also a lot harder because the game is much fast than it was in Serie A's heyday.
An answer to the deep-sitting defense hasn't been found and it's still the one way Barcelona are systematically beaten by the right teams with half the defensive nous or quality of Serie A's pomp. Nothing that's done now would disrupt those old systems beings as they weren't fast transition dependent or vulnerable to the counter. Teams like Atletico and Chelsea (amongst others like Inter and ourselves) when they were good defensively have shown that strong defensive sides still present a massive problem even in this era with half the quality of those Serie A defences.
 
When C. Ronaldo retires he'll be regarded as arguably the best European player ever. In terms of talent Cruyff and Best were superior to him but his consistency will put him above them, Eusebio, Puskas, etc. Therefore, he will make top 5 of all time.

It's a myth that it is easier to score goals nowadays. Compare the gpg ratio when Puskas and Eusebio played to the gpg ratio nowadays. It is a myth also that Ronaldo and Messi score so many goals because their teams are utterly dominant. Puskas's Real and Eusebio's Benfica were very dominant as well. Bayern is now a top top team but Lewandowski scores only 1/2 of Ronaldo's goals. And Lewandowski himself is world class!

Ronaldo's achievement of many consecutive 50 + seasons is absolutely unique in the history of the game and won't be surpassed for decades to come. Even Pele, playing in a not so strong domestic league at the time, had only 2 back to back 50 + seasons!
 
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There's footage of the raw array and differing skills shown by Pele that haven't been matched since by any one player - there's different players who can pull off different goals from his compilations but not one who can do all that he shows. He is always knocked down in these discussions because his vantage point and pedestal lends itself to the most scrutiny, which is fair enough, but you have to look at a body of work to draw conclusions rather than small sample sizes. Ronaldo could be made to look like an indifferent tap-in merchant if you picked from the last few years, for example.

I found this footage a while back because in some discussion on Brazilian TV about Pele x Messi the Pele defender talked about this "amazing" goal against Mexico, so I went searching and found this compilation which is much like what we have today for many players after each match. I'd seen footage like the ones you posted, and by those he is simply amazing, and I don't intend to put down the sheer quality and brilliance of his and any other of the greats. But I do find that in the comparison to today's players they are placed on some unreachable pedestal by those with a more romantic verve, when in actuality at times because of the nature of the game back then even the best were poor by today's standards.

That's why I appreciate Messi and Ronaldo so much. I'm only 26 so my first recollections of football are around the 97-98, but from all I've seen since then what those two do today, especially Messi, is just a level above what we'd seen in the last 15 years.

I've also watched WC matches from the 70s and 80s, and was also not impressed by today's standards. The game was very slow, the ball was walked out of defense much like basketball. Again, I don't say this to somehow say that Cruyff, Pele, Zico, Di Stefano were somehow not good. They were excellent, and for their time as good as a player could be. But because I can't somehow transplant any of them into today's game to see how good they would become, I must either say players from different eras can't be compared, or since we're actually doing that here by ranking them, give the nudge to the best players of the last 10-20 years because in absolute terms they play better football than those of the past.


I agree with a lot of that. I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare eras like that. In that video, where you say it was a famous Pele performance, he loses the ball about 15 times or more, has two shots that if Ronaldo would have shot like that people would be making gifs and laughing at them. He often just stands there with the ball and seems to lose the ball almost every time he actually get pressured.

In this match the ball was heavy, pitch wasn't great. Goalkeepers had recently started to use gloves, didn't take their own goal kicks apparently and you could sort of tell by the fitness of the Mexicans that they weren't up to par with the best team of the time.

I "like" this footage a lot because this isn't some random poor performance by him, its considered one of his best, in the year people say he was at his peak but got injured early in the WC. So either what you see is what you get, or the people who tell us this was one of his best are delusional. Growing up in Brazil I head a lot about Pele's untouchable greatness and it bothered me. Sorry to derail the thread slightly, but since all these discussions about where a player ranks involves the past as well, we should probably take a look at what that past was like.
 
Top 10 is about as definitive as you can do it.

Top 3? That's just silly because there's so much bias involved from everyone naming theirs.
 
We should probably start an all time series for the Caf to settle this once and fall all.

Also, United's 10, PL etc etc etc.
 
Cristiano is Michel Platini or Ferenc Puskas level right now; just ahead of the likes of Eusebio, and behind Di Stefano and Cruyff. Might end up in the Top 5 by the end of his career, but I really doubt it. The productivity angle is being over-emphasized in placing him within the Top 5 right now, that will probably settle down once he retires, and his career is put in perspective.
Puskas was the figurehead of Kipset Honved and the Magical Magyars being absolutely instrumental to both teams and being the most unfortunate player not to have won the world cup. He also saw out his career being an old age wonder for Real Madrid.

Platini was at a godly level for the first half of the 80's and set Euro '84 alight with one of the greatest, if not the greatest individual performance the Euros has seen. Platini was a phenomenal player who was the figurehead for club and country for years and relied on no-one to have the influence he did on games.

Eusebio, there's a debate for, but I don't see how you mention Ronaldo with the other two.
 
An answer to the deep-sitting defense hasn't been found and it's still the one way Barcelona are systematically beaten by the right teams with half the defensive nous or quality of Serie A's pomp. Nothing that's done now would disrupt those old systems beings as they weren't fast transition dependent or vulnerable to the counter. Teams like Atletico and Chelsea (amongst others like Inter and ourselves) when they were good defensively have shown that strong defensive sides still present a massive problem even in this era with half the quality of those Serie A defences.
Or maybe that era was filled with team sitting backs effectively making the defense look better? Add to what defenders were allowed to do to attackers without giving away a foul. 16/18 teams had over 10 draws in 1990 in Italy. The victor score 57 goals and conceded as many as Juventus did last season. Do you think that teams simply didn't attack as much back then? You think that non-attacking teams+slower matches+defenders getting away with more might have something to do with the defenders looking better overall?

Chelsea won the league last season and conceded the same amount of goals in 4 more matches than Milan did when they won in '93. I'm sorry but I don't buy this huge gulf in class between those eras. I think there were 2-4 defenders that are better than the ones we see now but that isn't such a big deal. Rest is just romanticism that's blurring people's views a bit.
 
Quickly on Garrincha, I find him to be even more romanticized than Pele. Star of the 62 team, member of the 58 team. Very fast, goalscorer, assister, definitely an all-time great.

But in Brazil some people would tell tales of him dribbling past up to 10 players!! He did that whole fake run without the ball and come back which is fun. But in absolute terms, some Ezen Hazard runs nowadays are more diverse and challenging than what Garrincha pulled off. But the romantics again will put him on the untouchable pedestal as the greatest dribbler of all-time, never to be touched.
 
I "like" this footage a lot because this isn't some random poor performance by him, its considered one of his best, in the year people say he was at his peak but got injured early in the WC. So either what you see is what you get, or the people who tell us this was one of his best are delusional. Growing up in Brazil I head a lot about Pele's untouchable greatness and it bothered me. Sorry to derail the thread slightly, but since all these discussions about where a player ranks involves the past as well, we should probably take a look at what that past was like.
Judging by that clip, if it were Messi the conclusion was that he didn't create enough, lost the ball countless times but still managed a goal and an assist because that's how good he is. Maybe the same could be said about Pele but the differences between this match and a Brazil match in the summer of 2014 are bigger than the similarities.
 
Or maybe that era was filled with team sitting backs effectively making the defense look better? Add to what defenders were allowed to do to attackers without giving away a foul. 16/18 teams had over 10 draws in 1990 in Italy. The victor score 57 goals and conceded as many as Juventus did last season. Do you think that teams simply didn't attack as much back then? You think that non-attacking teams+slower matches+defenders getting away with more might have something to do with the defenders looking better overall?

Chelsea won the league last season and conceded the same amount of goals in 4 more matches than Milan did when they won in '93. I'm sorry but I don't buy this huge gulf in class between those eras. I think there were 2-4 defenders that are better than the ones we see now but that isn't such a big deal. Rest is just romanticism that's blurring people's views a bit.
I am guessing you didn't watch Serie A of the time?

2-4 defenders better than what we see now?

You are referring to the 80's model of Serie A, which was staid and ruthless, but things were different in the 90's, and the standard of actual defending (over cynicism) was at its peak. There will never be as great a concentration of defensive quality in a league again.
 
Platini was at a godly level for the first half of the 80's and set Euro '84 alight with one of the greatest, if not the greatest individual performance the Euros has seen
There are absolutely no arguments about it, it's the greatest European individual performance by a fine margin.
 
I'd say top 10. I was too young to watch many great players from the past and have only seen a few match comps and clips on YouTube, so I can't fully judge them.

I think Ronaldo's legacy will grow further when he retires.
 
I think people overate players from the past,

On the contrary, I think older players are actually quite underrated. Folks sample videos of players today vs those of the eras gone by in a vacuum to further their argument, but the underlying reasoning for listing of the greatest (not quantitatively best) footballers ever is kind of flawed. Those players should be judged within the parameters of their era, and the tactics/ footballing culture/ training methodology of the time.

Even though a Cristiano Ronaldo now might be considered by some to be qualitatively better than a Cruyff or Di Stefano given the advancement in training, sports medicine and whatnot, those players weren't just the greatest of the era, they set the precedent that helped define the fabric of football as we know it today. Without a Rivelino there might not have been Elastico for Laudrup and Ronaldino, without Beckenbauer there might not have been a Blanc or Sammer.

Because conversely, one might argue that amateur cartographers today can replicate what Mercator or Song or Goode did in the past, and how XYZ is a better mathematician than Euler or Euclid or Gauss in a vacuum. Modern players aren't necessarily better, even when the stats are padded up, it's just that the environment of football has changed with each passing generation.

Also, although you are entitled to your opinion, Zidane looks awkwardly out of place in an all-time Top 5. His resume just doesn't stack up when tallied with some of the others. Borderline Top 10 if I'm being super kind.

Puskas was the figurehead of Kipset Honved and the Magical Magyars being absolutely instrumental to both teams and being the most unfortunate player not to have won the world cup. He also saw out his career being an old age wonder for Real Madrid.

Platini was at a godly level for the first half of the 80's and set Euro '84 alight with one of the greatest, if not the greatest individual performance the Euros has seen. Platini was a phenomenal player who was the figurehead for club and country for years and relied on no-one to have the influence he did on games.

Eusebio, there's a debate for, but I don't see how you mention Ronaldo with the other two.

In fairness to what was written, I have already considered all of what you have stated. Putting Ronaldo in the same tier as Puskas and Platini seemed kind of a natural fit. Puskas was a figurehead for Honved, but the team also had Czibor, Kocsis, Budai, Bozsik; and the Hungarian League wasn't the strongest one at the time, in comparison to the Premier League and La Liga while Ronaldo played there.

Puskas might not have shredded substantially weaker competition like a Bican did, but still, the gulf was quite wide in relative terms. The Magyars again, the Kispesti lot, plus Grosics, Hidegekuti, Zakarias, Lantos and Sebes. That level of talent didn't materialize for Cristiano with Portugal since the 2006 World Cup; and the likes of Quieroz or Bento were no patch on Sebes. All in all I do think Ronaldo is on par with Puskas, the productivity and overall effectiveness as comparable too. Puskas was one of the Top 3-ish players of that kind of 20 year time-frame, similar for Cristiano, and things kind of even out.

Platini again, he's someone I admire greatly alongside Zico; and he was certainly a greater play-maker than Ronaldo, better vision, better passing, and his heroics in 1984 triumph over anything Ronaldo has done on the national team level, so I have considered the reasons for putting Cristiano alongside him. But his peak at the absolute top level and league was more restricted compared with Ronaldo (Nancy and earlier Saint Etienne days vs Ronaldo at United); the latter is a greater direct threat, more consistent with his production.

The French national time of the period when he was at his best coincided with with the presence of Tigana and Amoros and Bossis and Fernandez and Giresse and Bats; while Ronaldo's peak was greeted by the slow withering and departure of the likes of Figo and Rui Costa. Ronaldo became to Messi what Platini eventually became to Maradona. On club level, like Ronaldo, Platini's peak was with team that was absolutely stacked - Zoff, Scirea, Gentile, Cabrini, Tardelli, Boniek; so the cupboard wasn't exactly empty. Again, overall it seemed a really good fit and like @Chesterlestreet said, intuitively it makes sense with them falling a bit short of the Top 5-ish players.

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Sounds intuitively right.

What immediately speaks against it, is his Ballon haul. But I don't put much stock in that, to be honest. It has never been a proper reflection of how good the player was. Keegan has two of the bloody things.

Yep. Plus, I feel the current Ballon D'Or is somewhat cheapened by FIFA's influence. Seems more a spiritual heir to the 'World Player of the Year', than France Football's.
 
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I don't think he can be above fat Ronaldo, having watched them both. Ronaldo in his pump played against one of the best defenders, defensive players I've seen in the game as well - Nesta, Maldini, Costacurta, Stam, Keane, Gattuso, Ayala, Desailly, Blanc, Thuram, Cafu, Hierro and manny many more.

Brazilian Ronaldo will probably go below Messi in terms of stature, but IMO he was a little better given all the competition he was against in the 90's.
 
5 to 10.
 
I don't think he can be above fat Ronaldo, having watched them both. Ronaldo in his pump played against one of the best defenders, defensive players I've seen in the game as well - Nesta, Maldini, Costacurta, Stam, Keane, Gattuso, Ayala, Desailly, Blanc, Thuram, Cafu, Hierro and manny many more.

Brazilian Ronaldo will probably go below Messi in terms of stature, but IMO he was a little better given all the competition he was against in the 90's.

I can understand why people rank Messi, Maradona or Pele ahead of Cristiano, but Luiz Ronaldo? :eek:

How long was he at his peak? 2 seasons? Ever since 1998 he was nowhere near his previous level and certainly nowhere near Cristiano's level for the past 7-8 seasons. Even pre-1998 it's difficult to argue he's ever reached the level Cristinao has been at for years.
 
Fat Ronaldo is the most talented player I've had the pleasure if watching even Messi is just behind him for me. Though his career was ruined by injuries, due to C Ronaldo longevity he has had a better career .
 
I can understand why people rank Messi, Maradona or Pele ahead of Cristiano, but Luiz Ronaldo? :eek:

How long was he at his peak? 2 seasons? Ever since 1998 he was nowhere near his previous level and certainly nowhere near Cristiano's level for the past 7-8 seasons. Even pre-1998 it's difficult to argue he's ever reached the level Cristinao has been at for years.
Ronaldo da lima's peak is IMO higher than CR, having watched them both. It's worth mentioning that fat Ronaldo has 15 WC goals to his name and has won it in 2002, for example Messi and CR both combined have about the half of Ronaldo's goals in World Cups.

The reason why he hadn't got all that longevity is due to injuries which plagued him ever since PSV, but yeah it depends who do you consider better and for whatever reasons.

For example Ronaldinho's peak was pretty short, but it's hard for me to put Giggs for example as the better player.
 
Ronaldo da lima's peak is IMO higher than CR, having watched them both. It's worth mentioning that fat Ronaldo has 15 WC goals to his name and has won it in 2002, for example Messi and CR both combined have about the half of Ronaldo's goals in World Cups.

The reason why he hadn't got all that longevity is due to injuries which plagued him ever since PSV, but yeah it depends who do you consider better and for whatever reasons.

For example Ronaldinho's peak was pretty short, but it's hard for me to put Giggs for example as the better player.
Ronaldinho's peak was clearly quite a bit ahead of Giggs' peak, there's no argument about that.

As for Luiz Ronaldo v Cristiano, it's difficult to argue any of Luiz' seasons have ever been better than any of Cristiano's since 2006-07.

Regarding the WC, let's just say Portugal have never had a side at Brazil's level in 98-10. Anyway, each to their own...
 
Ronaldinho's peak was clearly quite a bit ahead of Giggs' peak, there's no argument about that.

As for Luiz Ronaldo v Cristiano, it's difficult to argue any of Luiz' seasons have ever been better than any of Cristiano's since 2006-07.

Regarding the WC, let's just say Portugal have never had a side at Brazil's level in 98-10. Anyway, each to their own...
Ronaldo's output for goals is quite remarkable. As an overall player i think he's a level or 2 below Brazilian Ronaldo and Messi for example.
 
I feel top 3. Think the level Messi and him have reached will only be truly appreciated when they've retired for a few years and the next best footballers struggle to come close to matching their output never mind their consistency. It really is remarkable what he and Messi have achieved season after season after season. To have done it in the 2 biggest leagues in this era as well is a massive achievement.
 
I am guessing you didn't watch Serie A of the time?

2-4 defenders better than what we see now?

You are referring to the 80's model of Serie A, which was staid and ruthless, but things were different in the 90's, and the standard of actual defending (over cynicism) was at its peak. There will never be as great a concentration of defensive quality in a league again.
I'm not referring to the 80's model. Not unless the 80's model was prevalent in the 90's.

It's much easier to be a defender when you can make a two footed challenge and be in danger of getting a yellow card if you don't touch the ball slightly. I'm not saying the defenders weren't good, I've saying they're overrated because all the teams played slow and were defensive. What did Baresi do in '92 that Terry didn't do last season? The argument against Terry is that he wasn't that great but it was Chelsea that were so defensively set up and he had Matic in front of him and Courtois in goal etc. How doesn't that compare to the great defensive Milan side? The Chelsea team didn't concede less. Neither did the Juventus team last season. Yet they don't compare.
 
Top 20 probably. He's the ultimate finisher but that's about it. There's no magic in his play.
 
When C. Ronaldo retires he'll be regarded as arguably the best European player ever. In terms of talent Cruyff and Best were superior to him but his consistency will put him above them, Eusebio, Puskas, etc. Therefore, he will make top 5 of all time.

It's a myth that it is easier to score goals nowadays. Compare the gpg ratio when Puskas and Eusebio played to the gpg ratio nowadays. It is a myth also that Ronaldo and Messi score so many goals because their teams are utterly dominant. Puskas's Real and Eusebio's Benfica were very dominant as well. Bayern is now a top top team but Lewandowski scores only 1/2 of Ronaldo's goals. And Lewandowski himself is world class!
What we're seeing now is almost unprecedented dominance by the very top teams. The only era that comes close is from 1945-1965 or so which is when Puskas, Di Stefano racked up some impressive totals. The only time Spanish football was similarly dominated was in the late 1950s. That's a significant reason why these players banged in so many goals in the same way that Messi and Ronaldo benefit today. I don't think anyone is claiming that it's easier for Messi and Ronaldo to score today than it was for Puskas and Eusebio. Context is everything.

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The hardest era for racking up goals was from the late 1970s through to the mid 1990s. That's when a lot of the top players were splattered across Europe and South America. It was far more competitive with a broad spectrum of clubs competing for both domestic leagues and the Champions League. It's also when football was at its most defensive with referees allowing rough-house tactics that curtailed attacking football and cut short the careers of many great talents (very few of the best players didn't end their careers on one leg). Pitches were inconsistent which preventing the kind of fluid attacking pattern and possession play we see today. Two points for a win made a 0-0 draw a good result rather than the comparative waste of time it is since three points were introduced. All of this isn't nostalgia - it made many games tumescent and negative affairs and was statistically borne out in low goals-per-game ratios (below 2 in mid-80s Serie A - that's 50% fewer goals than today) and great teams like Milan being able to win a title scoring a mere 36 all season. That's why someone like Marco Van Basten was never close to scoring more than 50 goals a season despite being an endlessly gifted centre-forward who'd surely plunder a half-century or more at the apex of a 90-points-and-150 goals-a-season-club today.

Ronaldo's achievement of many consecutive 50 + seasons is absolutely unique in the history of the game and won't be surpassed for decades to come. Even Pele, playing in a not so strong domestic league at the time, had only 2 back to back 50 + seasons!
Amazing achievement, although Gerd Muller also has several 50+ seasons.
 
He's a year away from having an almost uninterrupted 10 year long hot streak, and he doesn't even look close to slowing down. The whole idea of form goes completely out the window with him. He's just shit-hot throughout the year, every year. That sort of consistency at such a high level is unparalleled in football. I can't see anyone other than Messi matching him for longevity at the very top of the sport in my lifetime. It's insane.

Not sure if he's top 3 yet, though. Top 5 for sure, but not necessarily top 3.
 
Is he the best goalscorer of all time?

I'm not old/educated enough to answer this. But can anyone else name a better goalscorer playing the same/higher level as him? I don't think so.
 
Top 3 you're having a laugh. Arguably top 10...
 
Behind Best and Giggs. Ahead of Kanchelskis, Beckham and Whiteside? (no idea on the last one really)
Other positions are harder and a bit subjective.

Time marches on and as players fall out of living memory their abilities are marginalized.

Or magnified a bit too?
Was duncan edwards as good as the legend goes?

Its kind of impossible to say because football in the early 90's was entirely different to today's game, forget what it was like 60 years ago.
The balls are lighter, more aerodynamic, the pitches are a hell of a lot better.
The clampdown on tackles from behind and sliding tackles in general and then the fitness levels. They were just different games.
People cant even decide which of messi and ronaldo is better. Trying to compare either to Best or Pele is futile.

I voted him top 10 anyway. Think quite a few players have a fair shout ahead of him and he probably end up pushed out to 10th or 12th, if i actually sat down and tried to make the list.

Is he the best goalscorer of all time?

I'm not old/educated enough to answer this. But can anyone else name a better goalscorer playing the same/higher level as him? I don't think so.

Fat Ronaldo.
Had a lot of injuries and a shorter career but he was pretty lethal when he felt like it.
Not a better player overall ... probably