Ancelotti is the best man manager i have ever seen. Tactically he gave up the system approach long before he joined the so called elite teams. When he was at Parma they had the opportunity to sign Roberto Baggio but Ancelotti declined because he couldnt fit him in his then favourable 442 system. Then he realised his mistake and changed his view about the systems. From then on he started to fit the system to the players he has.. thats why for example he played the so called Christmas tree system at AC Milan and did not in his next jobs.. that flexibility made him one of the best ever, especially when he is coaching top teams but his failure at Bayern showed that its not working when the team is used to the systematic approach and needs more than just good vibes and fitting all the best players at the best positions on the pitch. What i really like about him is that he is making his teams to play simple, wich is the hardest thing to do in football, as we know.
Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?
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Better than Klopp................
I mean, we're talking about a man who reached the semifinals 9 out of the 13 times he competed in the UCL. For comparison: Ferguson managed that 7 times out of 19. Ancelotti 9 out of 20 times.
It's true he hasn't won it as often but as far as consistency goes there's hardly a coach with a better UCL record than Pep. And it's not as if the others only ever faced top teams in the KO rounds.
You could even argue that the fact Pep hasn't won it in such a long while is simply bad luck since luck/chance plays such a huge role in knockout competitions.
I think he's incredible, one of the very best managers of his generation. In the last 20 years it's him, Ferguson, pep and mourinho as the best 4.
Hes been my first choice every time we've needed a new manager since fergie left.
Hes been my first choice every time we've needed a new manager since fergie left.
That's a very good take. Ancelotti is at his best at a team like Madrid where he has many experienced players playing together for years who want to bring in their ideas and concepts as well, such as Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Ramos, Ronaldo, Marcelo, Casemiro, etc. Unforgettable how he exchanged with those guys on the sideline on eye level last season. A great leader that gives his 'inferiors' the room to unfold. But he's not as good when the team requires clear instructions and patterns of play.
Plus I think he profitted from being at Madrid for so long. That club has something about its culture that sets the players up to surpass themselves and beat the odds in big UCL games. Last year was a masterpiece in that regard and how focused they were against Liverpool was evidence that they still have that in them. How ice cold Vinicius and Benzema finished off that one attack was really impressive.
It is crazy that he never had the same reputation as Pep or even Mourinho. I think in the last 25 years or so, I would rank him below SAF and Pep, and can be argued to be above Pep. He has to be be ahead of Mourinho.
Top 3 easily. Wanted him to replace SAF in the beginning. We needed a CL winning manager. Now he's on his way to winning it again this season. Its perfection for RM at the moment.
You could also argue that the two times he won it was cause of luck/referee mistakes (ref robbing Chelsea in 2009, red card for RVP while Arsenal was leading with half an hour left in 2011).
As someone who's club had them both, peak Mourinho was a level above.
What exactly is the equivalent of having 7 years in the City job. A cheating machine with unlimited resources?
I don't think that such stuff makes sense. In contrast, he really didn't deserve to go out against Inter.against which they were the much better team.
In the end, that's just the nature of cup competitions. They are much harder to win if you are the best team than aleagur competition/much easier to fluke if you are not the best team.
Nice to see you’ve got a account on here Pep but your match starts in a few hours.
He has to be right up there , certainly in terms of European titles. I don't think he was ever as dominant as Fergie or Pep though at domestic level at his clubs which maybe counts him down a peg but in Europe there is no equal, he absolutely owns Klopp and is usually able to get the better of Pep. Did his spell at Bayern not go so well though (relatively speaking as he won Bundesliga) ? any Bayern fans on here may have an interesting take on him.
Nice to see you’ve got a account on here Pep but your match starts in a few hours.
Oh, how quick witted and inventive.
Jesus, why would I even care about that GIF?
You guys always seem to think somebody has an agenda when they just state an opinion that happens to be defending a representative of a rival club. Don't extrapolate from yourself to others.
Him and sir Alex for me, he's above pep who hit the jackpot with prime messi and a great Spanish generation, he then went to one team Germany where he failed in ucl and financial doping man City but failed to win ucl and not able to dominate the premier league like united under fergie despite all the riches he has.
They deserved to get out against Inter, and refs helped them a lot.
He’d have struggled with Ed Woodward as his DoF.
Great manager, but needs help with building a team. Which was something United was in urgent need of back then.
Tbh I genuinely think this is a big difference between English and German football.
You a Leverkusen fan are praising a former Bayern Munich manager for getting to some semi finals and conceding 3 goals at the San Siro. Where as me a United fan, view Pep as a bald twat who bottles it in Europe and can only win big ears when his players are pumped full of drugs. This level of sophistication and analysis is why the premier league is the greatest league in world football.
Also the Germans stopped Don Carlo from smoking cigs, one of their many many crimes.
I think this has less to do with being German or English. I'd find myself pretty stupid if I couldn't put my biases aside and assess people at least somewhat objectively even if I don't like them. There are many fans in Germany who are completely irrational in those situations as well but they don't join international football forums because they are not interested in opinions outside their bubble. I mean, why would anybody opinions of people serious who don't even have any own opinions and just adapt what's the most favourable for their club?
That's like parents unable to to accept that their child is a spoilt brat. Utterly annoying
the hell they were. They got massacred in Milan and played most of the second leg with a man advantage and barely laid a glove on inter
Edit: sorry mods- this post went awry
I rest my case!
@Zehner is the biggest Barca/Pep/Messi fan out there, everytime you open CAF over the years, you see him defending them, even in random, unrelated, threads.
Dunno how many posts he's had about his supposed team (Leverkusen), but he's got a few K about his actual beloveds.
Dunno how many posts he's had about his supposed team (Leverkusen), but he's got a few K about his actual beloveds.
Good point to be fair.
People call him Don Carlo. That's enough info to close any argument about him.
Nobody can fool you. I'm almost a bit relieved somebody finally found out. You can't imagine the pressure.
If he wins UCL a third time across two stints with Madrid then he's probably top five all time. Did La Decima, smashed the PL, won the UCL twice and a final with Milan.
Won a league in all five top leagues (Italy, UK, Germany, France, Spain)
Won a league in all five top leagues (Italy, UK, Germany, France, Spain)
Nope because the guy you mentioned is also a great (and similarly underrated) manager. Don't forget that ZZ did not take over directly from Carlo. Benitez, a manager of good standing at the time, flopped with the same squad before ZZ took over. And also Madrid had not won the CL for a decade plus before Carlo and they'd had good managers throughout that period, including peak Jose. So it's not like anyone can do it, even if it is Madrid.
I’m not saying anybody can do it but that it’s been done across managers by this group even more so under a different one. It’s still an amazing feat but I do find it amusing how CL centric the discourse on everything is over here. I have a feeling most here would trade Sir Alex’s 13 league titles for two extra CLs invoking 3-4 memorable ties each. I’ll always be in that minority that considers league football absolutely vital.
I wouldn't say two managers is 'across' managers but I see what you're saying. The problem is though that the CL has massively increased in importance since the switch from the European Cup and the Bosman rule changes that enables clubs to build superteams. This has in turn devalued league titles because only a few superclub teams in a league can actually win it. Also, PL fans do not respect other leagues, so someone winning 10 league titles in Italy or Spain is meaningless to them. A CL win is respected by everybody.
Yeah suffice to say that I don’t value or respect opinions like that either. For me, performing week in week out over a gruelling 38 game season and proving yourself to first and foremost be the best in your own league is paramount. I’ve always seen the CL as the icing (lovely icing as it is). Especially when we’re talking about elite leagues like the PL or La Liga which are barring the odd year big accomplishments to win.
That's nice and all, but close title races are as luck dependent as two KO games:
La Liga 2014-15 (Ancelotti)
Barcelona - 94 pts
Madrid - 92 pts
La Liga 2015-16 (Benitez + Zidane)
Barcelona - 91 pts
Madrid - 90 pts
The above are simply two examples (there are a few others), the odds of getting an undeserved penalty/goal over 38 games is much higher (than just 2 games), and in this case, that is literally the difference between the champions and second place.
Add the recent news regarding shady payments by Barca over the years, and it's fair the say that these titles have lost their value.
Loyalties aside, is Ancelotti the best manager ever?
The first and ONLY manager to have won league titles in all the top leagues.
Most champions league wins as a manger - 4.
Most champions league finals as manager - 5.
23 major titles as a manager.
I mean, if SAF had those records, we wouldn’t even hesitate to claim SAF is the best ever.
Love SAF obviously and this is in no way being disrespectful to Sir Alex, but I think Don Carlo is the best manager ever.
The first and ONLY manager to have won league titles in all the top leagues.
Most champions league wins as a manger - 4.
Most champions league finals as manager - 5.
23 major titles as a manager.
I mean, if SAF had those records, we wouldn’t even hesitate to claim SAF is the best ever.
Love SAF obviously and this is in no way being disrespectful to Sir Alex, but I think Don Carlo is the best manager ever.
I personally find it more impressive to build several title winning teams and maintain success (and periods of dominance) for over 20 years at one club. But there's every possibility I could be biased without realising it. In any case Ancelotti certainly deserves to be in the conversation when discussing the greatest managers
It’s close. For me of course SAF wins.
But I really like Carlo.
It’s 4 CLs and a few league titles in different countries vs 4 European trophies and 16 league titles. Across several decades for both managers.
Also managing Madrid and Chelsea are very challenging jobs, 2nd place in the league or no CL title gets you the sack under Perez and Roman.
Not sure about best ever, but for me he is absolutely among the best ever managers. In terms of pure tactician however, he may indeed be the best ever.
His CL knock out record / record against big teams is phenomenal over 2 decades. You don’t get such a record without being a brilliant tactician.
No. Great manager though.