Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?

Alek M said:
Nobody talks about his tactical approach.

He strikes me a person that gets a team with good players and coasts in a lucky spell but I am sure I am wrong.

Like yesterday against Liverpool. Did he make any tactical changes after down 2 goals?
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If it's so easy, why can't everyone do it etc. Ancelotti is great at just picking the best players, fitting them in and letting the players take charge of the moment. He's a player/skill-first manager. The tactical changes he makes are subtle but the biggest thing is that the players are taught to think for themselves and problem solve during a big moment. The likes of Guardiola overcoaches his players to the point where they can't react to adversity in the same way in the biggest games. Works better for leagues that, worse for knockouts in cups.

adexkola said:
"I'd love to see him take a job where he doesn't have the best players and see how he does"

Well he did that at Everton, didn't he? Not too well I heard...
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I think he did a good job at Everton, he just left them for a much better job. Look at Everton since he left, battling relegation. In 2020-21, he may have finished 10th on the last day of the season but it was so tight that they were only 3 points off a European spot and only 8 points off a Champions League spot.

His 59 points with Everton is actually only 2 points worse than what Moyes got to finish 4th in 2004-05 and would have got European football most seasons in Everton's PL history.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It is obviously difficult and a historic feat. But the other good manager handing the same set of players won it three times in three years as a rookie so we have to consider the team, clubs historical pedigree in the competition etc too.
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A lot of those guys are gone, though. Ramos, Varane, Ronaldo, Bale, Isco, Marcelo, were all gone or had no meaningful role last season. Casemiro is gone now too. They have been replaced with worse, more inexperienced players (except maybe Alaba).
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
If it's so easy, why can't everyone do it etc. Ancelotti is great at just picking the best players, fitting them in and letting the players take charge of the moment. He's a player/skill-first manager. The tactical changes he makes are subtle but the biggest thing is that the players are taught to think for themselves and problem solve during a big moment. The likes of Guardiola overcoaches his players to the point where they can't react to adversity in the same way in the biggest games. Works better for leagues that, worse for knockouts in cups.



I think he did a good job at Everton, he just left them for a much better job. Look at Everton since he left, battling relegation. In 2020-21, he may have finished 10th on the last day of the season but it was so tight that they were only 3 points off a European spot and only 8 points off a Champions League spot.

His 59 points with Everton is actually only 2 points worse than what Moyes got to finish 4th in 2004-05 and would have got European football most seasons in Everton's PL history.
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Come off it. You have some people on here who think Moyes underperformed at Everton (some are agenda based). Ancelotti was fired... I don't think you'll find many people on here thinking the firing was unjust.

Plus, remember he took the job at Everton after being fired by Bayern, and Napoli.

Again you're as good as your last game so he's the best in the world right now. Let's not pretend like those blemishes on his career would be similarly waved away if they applied to other managers.

This tea is really good.
 
adexkola said:
Come off it. You have some people on here who think Moyes underperformed at Everton (some are agenda based). Ancelotti was fired... I don't think you'll find many people on here thinking the firing was unjust.

Plus, remember he took the job at Everton after being fired by Bayern, and Napoli.

Again you're as good as your last game so he's the best in the world right now. Let's not pretend like those blemishes on his career would be similarly waved away if they applied to other managers.

This tea is really good.
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No he wasn't.
 
Alek M said:
Nobody talks about his tactical approach.

He strikes me a person that gets a team with good players and coasts in a lucky spell but I am sure I am wrong.

Like yesterday against Liverpool. Did he make any tactical changes after down 2 goals?
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perhaps his brilliance lies in the fact that he DIDN'T panic/make changes where most/all would have.
and look what happened.

He's easily the GOAT with SAF
 
Its just surreal that this man managed Everton recently.
 
adexkola said:
I stand corrected. I'll defer to your thoughts on his tenure:
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We did, but does that mean he did a bad job? I wouldn't say so. Hindsight suggests he did pretty well. We were in 6th spot at the end of January and a poor end to the season which was a deep contrast to the start where we played a bit more free flowing meant we started playing awfully tumescent stuff and finished 10th. I would not be surprised if that is because many of the players were playing at a level above what their actual ability is at the start.
 
Klopper76 said:
Is he better than Pep? Pep would’ve played the occasion tonight at Anfield and probably not won. Ancelotti is the better manager imo.
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Don’t think many would disagree.

Pep’s record in major knock games is generally quite average when you think of the seats he’s chosen in world football (and actually his only CL triumphs both involved massive refereeing controversy).

Ancelotti is up there with peak Mourinho for knock out games but has done it longer and ultimately won more albeit I don’t think he’s eclipsed the Porto/Inter trebles. Don Carlo however also have the domestic league achievements so is probably the most rounded manager of all time.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
A lot of those guys are gone, though. Ramos, Varane, Ronaldo, Bale, Isco, Marcelo, were all gone or had no meaningful role last season. Casemiro is gone now too. They have been replaced with worse, more inexperienced players (except maybe Alaba).
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I was thinking more of his first CL with Madrid. But your club has clearly made a pact with the devil. I reckon you’d field Brightons team for the rest of the season and still challenge for the CL.

Overrated competition anyway :D
 
The master of men-management and a true legend of the game. A shame it didn’t work out for him at Bayern. Really like him. Even though his football isn’t the most entertaining.
 
adexkola said:
I'd say he's even better. Better record in knockout games, more CL trophies, won more leagues in different countries so proved he wasn't tied to one team...
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Let’s face it. Most people’s brains stop here.
 
HTG said:
The master of men-management and a true legend of the game. A shame it didn’t work out for him at Bayern. Really like him. Even though his football isn’t the most entertaining.
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He did alright with Chelsea. We were smashing teams. He has become a little more pragmatic in his old age but he generally knows how to get the best out of his players. With some exceptions.

I can’t stand Peps football or his holier than thou attitude to everything. cnut.
 
Well, not everyone wins the CL with RM. There was a period after all before Mourinho joined them where they went out in the first knock-out round 6 times in a row iirc.
CL is bloody hard to win and his league record is not great, but still good.
For me he is among the best managers ever, no doubt about it.
 
I get the lack of tactical nous stuff but I feel like if I was a player I’d love him, he trusts his players far more than the likes of Pep
 
united_99 said:
Well, not everyone wins the CL with RM. There was a period after all before Mourinho joined them where they went out in the first knock-out round 6 times in a row iirc.
CL is bloody hard to win and his league record is not great, but still good.
For me he is among the best managers ever, no doubt about it.
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Yep, the only managers to win the CL with Real Madrid are Ancelotti, Zidane and Del Bosque this century? They had 14 other managers in that time if you count caretakers.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It is obviously difficult and a historic feat. But the other good manager handing the same set of players won it three times in three years as a rookie so we have to consider the team, clubs historical pedigree in the competition etc too.
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In the last 20 years they’ve had many managers including 3 previous CL winners (Capello, Mourinho, Benitez) plus some others with others honours to their names (PL winner Pellegeini; EL winner Loptegui..) and the only ones to have won the CL are Zidane and Ancelotti. You can’t dismiss everyone who doesn’t win it just to put down the ones (Ancelotti and the rookie) who do.

You are basically saying Pep is crap because he failed to reach a CL final with Bayern where the 2 previous managers led them to 3 finals in 4 years…
 
Alek M said:
He was pretty average at Everton.
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he certainly wasn't. He had us 2nd at xmas, just behind City. We fell away because of our quality, and since then been in 2 x relegation fights.
 
Scandi Red said:
Fergie is the GOAT. No weaknesses. End of discussion.

Ancelotti is the king of kings. Perfectly suited for the big teams and big moments. Cool as cool can be.

Pep is the weird nerd who inexplicably gets laid and does a lot of coke. Micro-managing flat-track bully.
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Can not agree with your assessment of Pep. His record is top class.
 
He's one of the best ever surely and has an impressive record. They beat us for the title in 2010 but I admired that Chelsea team so much, unlike other Chelsea teams that won things they were scoring lots of goals and playing nice stuff. They scored 7 goals on 3 different occasions and then beat Wigan 8-0 on final day to clinch the title.

I actually thought Ancelotti was past it at top level when he went to Everton so didn't expect much from RM when he came back then but he sure proved me wrong.
 
Buster15 said:
Can not agree with your assessment of Pep. His record is top class.
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Of course it is. Being a flat-track bully is ideal for winning leagues if you also have the best team in the league. It's not an insult, but rather a compliment.

You can technically lose every game against the top 4 and still get more than 90 points if you do your job against the rest. Easier said than done of course, but it goes to show the importance winning the games against lesser opponents. Pep is quite possibly the best manager in history when it comes that important aspect of management. But that skill is not really transferable to the CL. Barcelona with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta is a big outlier. It's a shame we never got to see Pep turn coal into diamond with a smaller club as that always will be held against him as an argument that he can only do it when things are "perfect".

The same could be said about Ancelotti of course, but I think he's a lot more useful for single games and cups. He's also won quite a few domestic league titles, so that makes him more well-rounded.
 
Bert_ said:
I think his stint at Milan as a manager is the best example of how he never made his managerial mark on a team or left a legacy. He was there for years but couldn't do it. Still won them a couple of CL titles though because that's what he does.
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His managerial mark was leading the best team in Europe for an extended period of time while playing some fantastic football. The mark of a good manager is to win the important/prestigious competitions and they don't come any bigger than the CL.
 
BorisManUtd said:
He's one of the best ever surely and has an impressive record. They beat us for the title in 2010 but I admired that Chelsea team so much, unlike other Chelsea teams that won things they were scoring lots of goals and playing nice stuff. They scored 7 goals on 3 different occasions and then beat Wigan 8-0 on final day to clinch the title.

I actually thought Ancelotti was past it at top level when he went to Everton so didn't expect much from RM when he came back then but he sure proved me wrong.
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They were quite fun that season, not something you usally think of when it came to Chelsea during those times, scored over 100 league goals too.
 
Scandi Red said:
Of course it is. Being a flat-track bully is ideal for winning leagues if you also have the best team in the league. It's not an insult, but rather a compliment.

You can technically lose every game against the top 4 and still get more than 90 points if you do your job against the rest. Easier said than done of course, but it goes to show the importance winning the games against lesser opponents. Pep is quite possibly the best manager in history when it comes that important aspect of management. But that skill is not really transferable to the CL. Barcelona with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta is a big outlier. It's a shame we never got to see Pep turn coal into diamond with a smaller club as that always will be held against him as an argument that he can only do it when things are "perfect".

The same could be said about Ancelotti of course, but I think he's a lot more useful for single games and cups. He's also won quite a few domestic league titles, so that makes him more well-rounded.
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Just read that Pep has the best points per game ratio of all UCL managers with more than 50 appearances. So I find that a bit harsh. He didn't get his teams over the line a couple of times but in general he maintains an unreal level in the UCL as well as the league.

Guardiola is for me definitely the best coach I've seen. Struggle to rank Ancelotti a bit since in contrast to the other candidates such as Klopp or Pep, he's not really a pioneer.

Ferguson to me is rather a manager than a coach and was excellent at that.
 
I do sometimes wonder how we'd have fared had he taken over from Ferguson.
 
Zehner said:
Just read that Pep has the best points per game ratio of all UCL managers with more than 50 appearances. So I find that a bit harsh. He didn't get his teams over the line a couple of times but in general he maintains an unreal level in the UCL as well as the league.
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That's going to happen when your teams are Barca with some of the best players of all time, peak Bayern and then City with a solid foundation + a spending spree. Of course he still had a job to do, but it's not like he ever coached an underdog or anything close to that.

For the last 11 CL campaigns(not including this one), Pep's team has been one of the bookies' favorites for 9 or 10 of them. In this period he managed to reach one final. And then he faced a team that was weaker on paper(Chelsea) and still he lost. I think the CL criticism is fair overall.
 
Scandi Red said:
That's going to happen when your teams are Barca with some of the best players of all time, peak Bayern and then City with a solid foundation + a spending spree. Of course he still had a job to do, but it's not like he ever coached an underdog or anything close to that.

For the last 11 CL campaigns(not including this one), Pep's team has been one of the bookies' favorites for 9 or 10 of them. In this period he managed to reach one final. And then he faced a team that was weaker on paper(Chelsea) and still he lost. I think the CL criticism is fair overall.
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Sorry but that's not a convincing line of argument
 
Zehner said:
Sorry but that's not a convincing line of argument
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You don't think it's valid to criticise Pep for only reaching 1 CL final(and losing it) for 11 years when he had VERY good and expensive teams for about 10 of these years?
 
Scandi Red said:
You don't think it's valid to criticise Pep for only reaching 1 CL final(and losing it) for 11 years when he had VERY good and expensive teams for about 10 of these years?
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It is valid but it is criticism on a very high level. It's obvious that few if any coaches have such an impact on a team like Guardiola.
 
Zehner said:
Just read that Pep has the best points per game ratio of all UCL managers with more than 50 appearances. So I find that a bit harsh. He didn't get his teams over the line a couple of times but in general he maintains an unreal level in the UCL as well as the league.

Guardiola is for me definitely the best coach I've seen. Struggle to rank Ancelotti a bit since in contrast to the other candidates such as Klopp or Pep, he's not really a pioneer.

Ferguson to me is rather a manager than a coach and was excellent at that.
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Guardiola maybe the best coach ever. But he is far from being the best in the CL.

The breakdown of this ratio. Because the ppg can be a bit misleading... In his first 3 seasons with City the only KO tie he won against a top 5 league club was one against Schalke in a season they were 14th of 18...

Including the fourth season, his record in such KO ties was 2 win/6 ties. (wins vs Schalke and Madrid), and 4 losses to Monaco, Spurs, Pool and Lyon.

His record with Bayern wasn't much better. One win in extra-time vs Juventus and defeats to all 3 Spanish clubs (those were the 4 big clubs of that period alongside Bayern)... It becomes 3 wins and 3 losses when we include games against Arsenal and Moyes' Man Utd... While it is a decent record for any manager to win 3 in 6, it wasn't necessarily for the Bayern he inherited that had a near 90% record before him (9 wins in 11 ties between 09/10 and 12/13)...
 
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