What's more important for us - a top center back or Sancho?

Sancho

Henderson in goal SHOULD hopefully improve our goalkeeping situation and I feel like our defence will then at least be good enough for top three. It's easy to criticise in the modern game where each goal is scrutinised by the freeze-frame but we don't actually concede that many and who is there that we could go and get that would definitely be an upgrade?

Sancho is, for me, a generational talent. These players don't become available very often and if they do, there's usually interest from every top club in Europe. I feel like if we do this now, our attack is basically set for 6/7yrs, with the addition of maybe a 'target-man' style #9 capable of impacting games a different way to the rest
 
Sancho or an equivalent attacker. And it’s not even close.

if you look at our defensive record, it’s been fine. Nothing great, but it’s been solid over the course of the season.

Now imagine if one of Bruno/Rashford/Martial are out long term (or at various points similar to this season), where do we end up?
 
Sancho. Absolute no-brainer. Without DDG’s horrific errors, we’d not even be having this conversation. His errors alone account for the difference between our being a comfortable third vs being in the fight to make 4th. Could we upgrade on Lindelof? Yup. We could. But that’s true of a load of positions. How many additional points would that get us though as compared with a genuinely world-class generational talent like Sancho to help score goals that steamroll the lesser lights and also strengthen our (already good) results against the better teams?
 
Why is this a debate?
= Sancho. Full Stop.


There is none of this "Top CB" available in the market, at best we can try and get a hidden gem ala Bruno.

What we already have is just suffice enough.
1. We had one of the best = lowest Goal conceded.
2. Five CBs + 1 + 2 = Eight CBs = Mag, Lind, Bailly, Jones, Axel + Smalling (+ emergency Shaw & TFM)
 
VP89 said:
Spin off from the "what do we still need" thread, where I felt we ensure we get a top center back over Sancho (if it came to choosing between the two of course). An example reply is below, and I'm just curious what the thoughts of the caf are on this. Sure Sancho is a top player but I wouldn't want his introduction to come at the opportunity cost of a top defender.



To reply to this - we aren't winning shit with the defence as it stands, as it's just too weak. That doesn't mean its a "minor" flaw in the defence, it's actually quite major.
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You do realise we have conceded 6 more goals this season than the runaway champions? To say we have a major flaw in our defence is a bit much .
We need Sancho way more because if we had scored more goals then we would well up the table
 
VP89 said:
Spin off from the "what do we still need" thread, where I felt we ensure we get a top center back over Sancho (if it came to choosing between the two of course). An example reply is below, and I'm just curious what the thoughts of the caf are on this. Sure Sancho is a top player but I wouldn't want his introduction to come at the opportunity cost of a top defender.



To reply to this - we aren't winning shit with the defence as it stands, as it's just too weak. That doesn't mean its a "minor" flaw in the defence, it's actually quite major.
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Sancho.

We won't get a CB of his level of elite talent.
 
Tel074 said:
You do realise we have conceded 6 more goals this season than the runaway champions? To say we have a major flaw in our defence is a bit much .
We need Sancho way more because if we had scored more goals then we would well up the table
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Exactly. I'm surprised it's been 7 years and people don't realise how big a problem our attack has been.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Maguire's fans surely saw him as one of the best options in the world. I was less keen on spending that kind of money. I thought he was too slow. I also thought United should sign VVD long before 'Pool went for him. I think while he was still at Celtic! I feel personally vindicated. Just shows how important stats are. Stats don't give the whole picture but they don't lie much (unless they are badly compiled).

United's weakness is squad depth. The squad is 25 players. Sancho is 1 player. Sancho won't fix the weakness.
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I loved him at Celtic but it's so hard to judge how someone does in Scotland compared to the Prem these days. When he first came to Southampton I wasnt convinced either. He has proved himself now though and he has marshalled the rest of them more to the point.

I wonder if Ajer could transition. At times he has looked great up there
 
Sancho + Upamecano (apparently RB are asking for 40m) and I think we'd be much better equipped to challenge next season.

Would like to bring in another CM like a VDB or a Matic successor as well but I can't see the funds being there unless we have a few sales.

Ideally I'd like to see us add another FB long term, preferably a starting quality LB, but it's not as pressing a priority right now as the aforementioned positions.
 
We have the second best defensive record in the league, tied with City, 6 goals away from Liverpool who are the leaders. Thats with De Gea having a poor season, and we have the 5th best offensive record in the league, 30 goals away from the leader which is City.

I think that answers the question.
 
We need a couple of quality defenders, another quality midfielder and another forward (Sancho).
 
Sancho. Ignoring Greenwood we still don't have a right winger! :lol::lol:
 
Top CB would transform us totally and make us very difficult to beat.

Some will hate me saying it, but we don’t need Sancho. We need some quality which isn’t such a drop off from what we have. The attacking options we have on the bench are woeful. A Buendia, Brooks or Willian would do as another attacking option.

The quality at centre back is non negotiable though and needs to be if the very highest quality. It should absolutely be the priority.
 
Maluco said:
Top CB would transform us totally and make us very difficult to beat.

Some will hate me saying it, but we don’t need Sancho. We need some quality which isn’t such a drop off from what we have. The attacking options we have on the bench are woeful. A Buendia, Brooks or Willian would do as another attacking option.

The quality at centre back is non negotiable though and needs to be if the very highest quality. It should absolutely be the priority.
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The difference between our goal scored with Liverpool is 14 while with City is 30.

The difference between our goal conceded with Liverpool is 6 while both City & us on the same amount. And if DDG doesn't make mistakes like he did against Everton, Watford, Spurs and etc, it could look better.

We need to improve our defense but we need to improve the attack first. There is massive gaps in there.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
The difference between our goal scored with Liverpool is 14 while with City is 30.

The difference between our goal conceded with Liverpool is 6 while both City & us on the same amount. And if DDG doesn't make mistakes like he did against Everton, Watford, Spurs and etc, it could look better.

We need to improve our defense but we need to improve the attack first. There is massive gaps in there.
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Since the restart though that looks very different. I feel it's been an up and down season for us (like most) but our attack really looks like it's clicked into gear. A massive weight on our lack of goals is from where Rashford was injured and wed play Lingard-James-Mata-Pereira as support.

Sancho is brilliant and a must get, but I feel if we were faced with say Sancho + no center back vs a top center back + 1or 2 good squad attackers, the latter might make a better impact.

Obviously an ideal scenario is to wrap up Sancho + a very good center back, but that doesn't look so likely. And many have raised a good point in saying it's slim pickings for defenders anyway.
 
VP89 said:
Since the restart though that looks very different. I feel it's been an up and down season for us (like most) but our attack really looks like it's clicked into gear. A massive weight on our lack of goals is from where Rashford was injured and wed play Lingard-James-Mata-Pereira as support.

Sancho is brilliant and a must get, but I feel if we were faced with say Sancho + no center back vs a top center back + 1or 2 good squad attackers, the latter might make a better impact.

Obviously an ideal scenario is to wrap up Sancho + a very good center back, but that doesn't look so likely. And many have raised a good point in saying it's slim pickings for defenders anyway.
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Since the restart we managed 4 clean sheets & conceded 5 in 7 league games.

What type of squad attackers you expect us to sign? Sancho can play across 3 different position means he's like 2 or 3 players in 1. We could do Sancho + decent centre back to avoid our centre back & attackers being overplayed and still maintain the same of our good performance since the restart.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
The difference between our goal scored with Liverpool is 14 while with City is 30.

The difference between our goal conceded with Liverpool is 6 while both City & us on the same amount. And if DDG doesn't make mistakes like he did against Everton, Watford, Spurs and etc, it could look better.

We need to improve our defense but we need to improve the attack first. There is massive gaps in there.
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Yeah, since Bruno came in, this just isn’t as relevant. We need an option up top because we don’t have anyone to come on or rotate without a massive drop in quality. But no matter who we play at the back, it isn’t good enough at the very top level. We need a VVD/Laporte far more than we need a Salah/Mahrez.

A CB signing like that would have us looking a tall order for any side to beat, especially at home.

We are not going to get a big CB signing and a big RW signing.

It’s just an example, I would much prefer Koulibaly/Buendia to Ake/Sancho given the choice, and I think we would be a much better team for it.
 
Sancho for sure. It's not fair - as talented as he is, to rely on greenwood in that position, all season .
 
Maluco said:
Yeah, since Bruno came in, this just isn’t as relevant. We need an option up top because we don’t have anyone to come on or rotate without a massive drop in quality. But no matter who we play at the back, it isn’t good enough at the very top level. We need a VVD/Laporte far more than we need a Salah/Mahrez.

A CB signing like that would have us looking a tall order for any side to beat, especially at home.

We are not going to get a big CB signing and a big RW signing.

It’s just an example, I would much prefer Koulibaly/Buendia to Ake/Sancho given the choice, and I think we would be a much better team for it.
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Since Bruno came in, we made 8 clean sheets in 12 league games means only 4 games we conceded. We managed a clean sheet against the likes of City, Chelsea & Wolves, those games include games like Everton & Spurs where the goal could & should have been avoided by DDG. May be you want to give the defense bit more credit there.

Given a choice, Sancho & Ake is just much more improvement. One is 20 years old top attacker while the other one is experience & proven PL centre back.

You compare it to Koulibaly & Buendia. One is 29 years old top centre back that cost 90m this summer while the other one is only 1 season PL player.
 
Sancho. Hopefully, the 19 games unbeaten run showed you that when United are at their best going forward, attack really becomes the best form of defence for us. Attack no longer becomes our defence when we bring Andreas/Lingard/James on.

Let's put it this way, sure - sign a world-class CB. But if you're not scoring goals forget it. You have to keep that 'United way' juggernaut of free-scoring going otherwise you're starting to lose identity and resort to a Mourinho style set up.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Since Bruno came in, we made 8 clean sheets in 12 league games means only 4 games we conceded. We managed a clean sheet against the likes of City, Chelsea & Wolves, those games include games like Everton & Spurs where the goal could & should have been avoided by DDG. May be you want to give the defense bit more credit there.

Given a choice, Sancho & Ake is just much more improvement. One is 20 years old top attacker while the other one is experience & proven PL centre back.

You compare it to Koulibaly & Buendia. One is 29 years old top centre back that cost 90m this summer while the other one is only 1 season PL player.
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I could go on about how many goals our front three have scored too if you want?

Defences win titles, and the lack of mobility in ours at times will cause our undoing. We have a very good defence, not a great one, while we already have a great attack.

I would love Sancho, but seeing a very top line CB on the team sheet would give me more confidence in the big games.

CB is definitely more important for me. I have much more faith in Greenwood as a starter than Lindelof (who is a solid option mind, but I think we need more pace and athleticism there).

Just personal preference. I think we need a starter at CB, while Greenwood has given me enough confidence that I feel we only really need depth up top, so that’s where my big money would go.

I think both should be possible the way Chelsea are spending, but I don’t think we will see that under this regime.
 
Could um and ah as much as we want but we need both. The CB needs to be world class too. There's not much point buying yet another decent but meh CB.
 
VeevaVee said:
Could um and ah as much as we want but we need both. The CB needs to be world class too. There's not much point buying yet another decent but meh CB.
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The only world class one available is Koulabaly. The others are all prospects who have the potential to be very very good - Upamecano, Konate, Kabak etc. Given a chance, pot 2 is much better than Koulabaly in the long run.
 
We need Sancho desperately. Rashford, Martial and Sancho with Greenwood from the bench and Bruno behind will put the fear of god up opposing teams, so much so that we will find that even bigger teams will sit back and there’ll be less pressure on the back four.

I know that we can see weaknesses defensively but our record is actually very good - we don’t concede many goals. I’d love a quality partner to Maguire but it’s not like Lindelof/Bailly/Tuanzebe are crap so I think it CAN wait, although I’d hope we’d have the cash for three players this summer with some outgoings.

Personally I even think another quality CM is more needed than a CB. I’d ditch Fred (and I like him!) to find someone that fits our system because currently, I don’t know what either Fred or McTominay are - they aren’t holding players, they aren’t deep playmakers and they aren’t No.8s either!
 
RDCR07 said:
The only world class one available is Koulabaly. The others are all prospects who have the potential to be very very good - Upamecano, Konate, Kabak etc. Given a chance, pot 2 is much better than Koulabaly in the long run.
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There's Skriniar, although I don't really know how great he is aside from him being talked up a lot. We could do with unearthing another Bruno standard player but for the back.
 
Maluco said:
I could go on about how many goals our front three have scored too if you want?

Defences win titles, and the lack of mobility in ours at times will cause our undoing. We have a very good defence, not a great one, while we already have a great attack.

I would love Sancho, but seeing a very top line CB on the team sheet would give me more confidence in the big games.

CB is definitely more important for me. I have much more faith in Greenwood as a starter than Lindelof (who is a solid option mind, but I think we need more pace and athleticism there).

Just personal preference. I think we need a starter at CB, while Greenwood has given me enough confidence that I feel we only really need depth up top, so that’s where my big money would go.

I think both should be possible the way Chelsea are spending, but I don’t think we will see that under this regime.
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Yes you can. I would like you to waste your time go on about it because I never say our attacks are the problem ever since Bruno came. These are my 4 reasons why I believe Sancho & decent CB (Ake for example) is better choices than Top CB (Koulibally) & backup attacker.

1) What happen if we are missing someone as caliber as Bruno & Pogba creativity which reflects to the number of goals we scored so far this season is relatively low not to mention the inconsistency of Greenwood & Rashford? Someone like Buendia isn't good enough to replace Bruno & Pogba quality while someone like Sancho can provide competition to our trio.

2) As much as you have little faith in Lindelof as I also do, the reality is that we have been keeping clean sheet for 8 times in our last 12 league games including against the likes of Chelsea & City. A decent centre back for example Ake is not only an upgrade of Lindelof but also provide competition in centre back. If with Lindelof we can get 8 CS out of 12, cut off DDG error and get someone who is slightly better than Lindelof we can even achieve better than 8 CS out of 12.

3) Rotation is needed! You have to understand that next season the schedule will be tighter than usual means rotation is more important than keep playing the same starting XI. Sancho & Ake can give us chances to rotate our players and still maintain the quality of XI.

4) The investment. 90m for a 29 centre back has little value in it compare to 100m on 20 years old attacker who can play in 3 different roles. This summer is our chance to actually get Sancho since majority clubs won't be able to afford him. In 2021, we might discover a new top centre back.

Defense wins us title I agree. However, we aren't in the stage where we only need one final player to win the title. Challenging and winning are two different things. Beside, next season will be slightly different to the normal one.
 
Either way is good, but honestly I think the offensive punch is more crucial, we're good defensively compared to top teams, but we need more ability to hold the ball. We need a dribbler on the wings.
 
RDCR07 said:
The only world class one available is Koulabaly. The others are all prospects who have the potential to be very very good - Upamecano, Konate, Kabak etc. Given a chance, pot 2 is much better than Koulabaly in the long run.
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RB Leipzig are still in the champions League. Once their campaign comes to a conclusion, things will start to move regarding Upamecano and Konate who are both reported to be wanting to leave the club.

I'd also take pot 2 any day over Koulibaly.
 
Sancho will be signed IMO unless he fails the medical.

The question should be, do we go for a CB or Grealish/VdB if given the choice?
 
Rolaholic said:
Sancho + Upamecano (apparently RB are asking for 40m) and I think we'd be much better equipped to challenge next season.

Would like to bring in another CM like a VDB or a Matic successor as well but I can't see the funds being there unless we have a few sales.

Ideally I'd like to see us add another FB long term, preferably a starting quality LB, but it's not as pressing a priority right now as the aforementioned positions.
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Yeah those two would be top drawer signings I have no doubt about that
 
for how shambolic our defense looks, it still hasnt conceeded that many since the restart in the grand scheme of things. I think we focus on making our attack potent as can be, then finish it off with a world class centre back. Just like liverpool did
 
shahzy said:
for how shambolic our defense looks, it still hasnt conceeded that many since the restart in the grand scheme of things. I think we focus on making our attack potent as can be, then finish it off with a world class centre back. Just like liverpool did
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Yeah despite the current financial climate can see us getting VDB for good price and then see us going for Upamecano if he is really available for around £40m
 
Adnan said:
Sancho will be signed IMO unless he fails the medical.

The question should be, do we go for a CB or Grealish/VdB if given the choice?
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I think a CB is more important. We have a couple of academy players in that AM, CM position in Hannibal and Gardner. Now I’m not saying they are ready to play or that they will pull a Greenwood but it’s much easier to shoe in a player up top than it is to play an academy product in central defense. We have too many injury issues in defense.
 
Sancho of course!
Then a long term Matic replacement
Then I'd say FBs = CBs = GK

Our defense is much better than what we saw against Chelsea, but at this moment they are having bad concentration lapses, specially De Gea and Maguire.
It might be also the fact that they "don't compete" for the places, so maybe bringing back Henderson and Smalling(??? or getting a rotating CB like Ake) could lift their performances.

If we get sancho and a 6 this summer, and the defense and/or GK keep the bad performances next season I'd go for replacements next january
 
SAFMUTD said:
We have the second best defensive record in the league, tied with City, 6 goals away from Liverpool who are the leaders. Thats with De Gea having a poor season, and we have the 5th best offensive record in the league, 30 goals away from the leader which is City.

I think that answers the question.
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Bingo.
 
I don't care if it means we roll with Joleon Lescott at CB next year, you sign Sancho and figure out the rest later. Besides, having a more dynamic offense helps our defense anyway, real two bird situation.
 
RDCR07 said:
I think a CB is more important. We have a couple of academy players in that AM, CM position in Hannibal and Gardner. Now I’m not saying they are ready to play or that they will pull a Greenwood but it’s much easier to shoe in a player up top than it is to play an academy product in central defense. We have too many injury issues in defense.
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Completely agree.

We might have a good defense as far as statistics go but in reality it's a back line suited to playing in a low block. Our backline isn't good enough to enforce a high press because unlike the current bench mark, (Liverpool) we can't play a high defensive line due to the physical limitations of our current starting CBs against quality teams. Unless that is fixed we will carry on defending deep against quality teams in fear of getting exposed in defensive transition and we'll statistically have a good defensive record but the league table won't lie. Rio Ferdinand best explained it on Bt sport that Liverpool are so dominant because Liverpool's CBs have the ability to win a foot race against most attackers while defending on the half way line which allows Liverpool to throw the kitchen sink at the opposition.

Hannibal looks a superb prospect and will be given the opportunity at first team level before long IMO, and can be deployed in a double pivot or in a advanced midfield role. With a bit of patience we will have a superb young player who will deputise for both Pogba and Bruno. Garner too looks a interesting prospect for the deeper role.

Then you have Sancho too potentially who can play across the front line and would be a fantastic deputy for Bruno if needs be with Mason slotting into the RWF role. Signing a CB with the requisite qualities is important IMO.[/QUOTE]
 
bosnian_red said:
Sancho for sure. Hes perfect for our squad and potentially world class. There isn't any CB who you'd say is a clear option and would take us up a level. Same with holding mid.
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I wonder what De Ligt is up to nowadays? Quite a number on here wanted to let Pogba go in order to land De Ligt last summer if I'm not mistaken.
 
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