So would I
100% agree.
What would be an acceptable offer for Pogba?
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100% agree.
Roy Keane and Paul Pogba are completely different characters as well as different players.
Both have specific qualities but Roy Keane had more qualities.
Best illustration of the difference I can give is that Pogba loves to be loved and plays as much for himself as the team.
Roy Keane was perfectly happy to be hated but gave absolutely everything for the team. He was a leader and a warrior who pushed the limits.
If I was going into a battle, Keane would be the first I would choose.
Yeah, still pretty surreal though Sandikan!
With Pogba playing like he's done under Solskjaer, I'd pick Pogba over any midfielder. Pogba is a complete midfielder. Tackles, fights, shots, heads, assists.
If Liverpool sold Coutinho for £150M, I'd say no to anything that isn't twice as much. We can't guarantee a replacement for Pogba for £150M. We're not a selling club. We sold CR7 too soon also.
If Liverpool sold Coutinho for £150M, I'd say no to anything that isn't twice as much. We can't guarantee a replacement for Pogba for £150M. We're not a selling club. We sold CR7 too soon also.
At the moment, in the form he's in, it couldn't be anything less than 200M, in my opinion.
That's taking everything into his account, such as:
Age (25)
Ability
Marketability
That's taking everything into his account, such as:
Age (25)
Ability
Marketability
Close this thread. No sale.
exactly. Playing amazing. Showing he is an actual threat without Mou benching him for trash. Sell him and you better get at least 300 million because without him United would have one of the worst midfields of any decent team in the league.
But that boy had a dream
Who promoted you, that's some rank stupidity - the only trade that wouldn't happen there is possibly, KDB for PP. That's it.
Lucas Torreira > Pogba I've seen it all.
True story
I’ve read some utter crap “opinions” on the Caf recently. There’s always been the odd laughable post on here, but there’s just way too many, too frequently of late.
Not in the real world it wasn't,it was as batshit when you said it the first time as it is now.
The fact that you mention him being ridiculously kept out of the starting lineup to somehow prove your point tells me that you were one of the 'fans' who bought into the sacked one's 'virus' agenda hook line and sinker and would've sold our best outfield player for peanuts.
Pogba has proved his worth and class for every non toxic,ego-maniacal manager he's played for just as another player like Luka Modric has as well after being named the worst signing in Spain at one point in time while playing under the finished one.
The fact that you mentioned the likes of Torreira,Jorginho and Jordan fecking Henderson as superior players shows how little we should make of your football related opinions.
This Fully. I used virtually exact words when having a conversation about it with a mate who supports Liverpool.
What would be an acceptable offer for Pogba? Nothing. We already have him. He's ours. Next.
The way he's playing at the moment neither he or the club would want him to go. His value has literally doubled since Mourinho went though!
I will refrain from sinking to your level as I know I'm much better than that. I just guess that the cafe would be a boring place if everyone agreed with you and it became your personal echo chamber.
The original post has to be placed in context, in this case that context is the time it was posted and the contribution Pogba was making, and the question I posed was a hypothetical one. If Manchester United had contacted Arsenal and suggested a straight swap for Lucas Torreira, what would the answer have been? None of us can know for sure, but I strongly suspect the answer would have been a firm 'no' - Torreira was looking like one of Arsenal's best players, and Pogba was an open question and warming the bench for United.
If the same question were to be asked today, I accept that the answer is less clear cut.
There was a general hatred towards Mourinho, a hatred which I also shared (check out any of my posts if you doubt that - you'll not find much positive about that man). Pogba, because of his obvious antipathy towards Mourinho, seemed to be elevated to a sort of cause celebre for the anti-Mourinho crowd. Positions became polarised, and many comments here on the cafe would have had you believe that Mourinho could do no right, and Pogba could do no wrong. Reality of course is more complicated, and those of us who have followed United for many years could not accept Pogba's apparent downing of tools (this doesn't condone Mourinho's behaviour, which was appalling, but Pogba is not blameless either).
OK, then answer the question in the context of the post (i.e. based on the time and circumstances of the post - Pogba not making the starting XI and looking like he was on the way out, the others key figures in their teams - not with the benefit of hindsight). Had United, at the time, offered Pogba in a straight swap for any of the players I'd listed, how many positive responses do you think there would there have been?
The purpose of the post was to try to present a realistic perspective of Pogba's value in the market at the time (I thought some of the estimates being put forward were unrealistic).
Events have moved on, and Pogba looks like a man reborn. I accept that, and as a United fan I'm very happy about it and I hope it lasts. The timing of Mourinho's departure took most of us by surprise - I referred to it on this site as an early Xmas present. Prior to that happy event, it had begun to look like we would inevitably be selling Pogba (I guess that's why the topic of an acceptable price arose in the first place).
We reached a point where P/X would be more valuable then money but no offer would be accepted and no offer should. We're rebuilding. It would be a few steps forwards and a few more back.
It would have to be one of the oil clubs offering us 50% of their clubs shares
You've got to be a WUM, you don't think Arsenal would be singing and dancing for weeks if they got offered Pogba for Torreria? It wouldn't even take a single seconds thought
How the feck has that dross been promoted yet I'm stuck at newbie for years now...
Now, well perhaps. At the time of the original post, very doubtful.
Some say they have no idea what I did to get promoted, others say it was my world class movement.
I only began watching football in 2000 so I can’t comment on older players, but this is my opinion:
- Pogba’s ability to ping a long pass is second only to Pirlo.
- Pogba’s through balls are good but not Xavi or De Bruyne level.
- Pogba’s close control in tight spaces is also superb, but behind Iniesta and Isco.
- Pogba is a good ball carrier like Vieira, but a clear tier below Zidane and Kaka.
- Pogba is a goal scoring threat, but not at the level of Lampard or Gerrard
- Physically he is an absolute specimen, up there with Vieira, Vidal and Seedorf.
- Defensively Pogba is average for a midfielder. There are a lot of midfielders better than him in that department. He is sometimes slow to react to things happening and doesn’t always read the game well. His consistency and decision making is also average when compared to his natural talent.
- Pogba’s ability to ping a long pass is second only to Pirlo.
- Pogba’s through balls are good but not Xavi or De Bruyne level.
- Pogba’s close control in tight spaces is also superb, but behind Iniesta and Isco.
- Pogba is a good ball carrier like Vieira, but a clear tier below Zidane and Kaka.
- Pogba is a goal scoring threat, but not at the level of Lampard or Gerrard
- Physically he is an absolute specimen, up there with Vieira, Vidal and Seedorf.
- Defensively Pogba is average for a midfielder. There are a lot of midfielders better than him in that department. He is sometimes slow to react to things happening and doesn’t always read the game well. His consistency and decision making is also average when compared to his natural talent.
You talk as if both players started their careers in August 2018. Pogba is a world cup winning player, Torreira is a lad from Sampdoria.
I will refrain from meaningfully addressing this drivel
I don't get this thread. How long's a piece of string... Ask any top club what an acceptable offer for their club talisman Is?
He's irreplaceable to us. I wouldn't swap him for any midfielder in the world. I'm so glad we have him.
He's irreplaceable to us. I wouldn't swap him for any midfielder in the world. I'm so glad we have him.
The fact he has so many aspects is what makes him so great though and why no other midfielder in the world could add everything that he does
The whole world cup winning thing is irrelevant - Messi, Ronaldo and De Gea aren't world cup winners either.
At the risk of labouring the point, the original post was made in the depths of the Mourinho era depression. Most people, myself included, thought that the misery of his tenure would endure well into 2019, and Pogba would probably be sold in the January window. At that time, he was a player who wasn't making the starting XI, whose attitude was widely questioned, and had hardly pulled up any trees with his performances. Torreira, on the other hand, had slotted nicely into an Arsenal team that was playing very well, and had become one of their key players. There were even plenty of posts here on the cafe which were complimentary about him.
So to the question of whether you'd have swapped him for Pogba if you were in charge at Arsenal - I wonder what the response of Arsenal fans would have been in early December 2018 (actually I don't, I'm pretty sure).
His defensive skills are shite. He was terrible tracking back against spurs .We have to play with two defensive midfilders because of him .
Suppose Tottenham fans think the same about Eriksen too? Unless I'm mistaken, they both have the same role in their teams...
Regardless of timing and context of the post, you’re just wrong. People don’t assess players based on their performance solely on the day of appraisal or even the few month period before. Just like you’re asking people to assess the context of your post, assessing the potential of a player also requires context. And on that basis your post is naive at best.
So you think, on December 14 2018 (the date of my original post), if faced with the hypothetical opportunity to exchange Torreira for Pogba, Arsenal would have said 'yes'? That's fine, but I have my doubts (and it would certainly have been interesting to have posed the same question on an Arsenal forum!).
Any rational decision maker would say yes, on any date.
The point about the body of work is absolutely relevant - one is a world class player who was having a tiff with his manager, the other is a decent player with three months of premier league experience and a few years in a midtable team in Italy. Form is temporary, class is permanent and all that.
Anyways, you seem like a nice lad, but I feel you're way off on this one
Torreira? Christ
He cant be replaced, so therefore, there is no way we should even think about selling. To us, he is worth more than what Neymar cost, so way above 200m
Not to forget that Pogba is also excellent in the air, in both attack and defence.
Even if this is true, and it's not a given, does it matter ?
If his job is to create and he does it excellently like he has recently and we're winning games, does it matter?
Regardless of whatever context you want to place your original post, it doesn't change the fact that it was awful. Those players you mentioned will be swapped for pogba in a heartbeat(maybe with the exception of kdb) . Only an incompetent board will refuse such an offer. Like someone mentioned, pogba has had a career outside of united, being a key part of a world cup winning team as well as winner multiple titles, something none other player in our current squad has achieved. Even during his difficult spells here he was by no means the worst player in the team. Pogba is held by a whole different standard compared to other players. If he doesn't score or assist in a game which we won, he is considered to have had a bad game. I am sure the likes of you cannot wait to jump on his back again, the minute we start having some bad results.
I like your bravery for continuing to post here, after making the most idiotic post in the history of the Caf.
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