What will it take to sack moyes?

MoskvaRed said:
I think that, for the owners, the "fluff" as you rightly call it about giving managers time and the "United Way" will play a very poor second to cash flow. And, in that sense, Moyes has been a disaster in terms of missing top 4 while 65 million has been spent.
Click to expand...

This has been behind my thinking that he could go, the glazers are shrewd business men everyone seems to think they know little about football and that may be true but it wouldn't necessarily be to Moyes advantage if it was the case.

At the end of the season if they review his performance with a cold harsh light from a business perspective, there really wouldn't be much of a case that could be made for him to remain. He took over a team which comfortably finished 1st-2nd in the last several years, added to that by spending more than any United manager has ever spent in a season while breaking our transfer record. Out of all cups, no CL football etc. etc. i could go on we all know how bad its been.

Of course there has been other factors involved in this failure but would the glazers take these into consideration, or simply crunch the numbers to come to their decision.

MoskvaRed said:
He also has no track record (aged 50) of competing at that level. So all logic points to a parting of the ways in May. It was a quixotic experiment to create Fergie mark 2 on the basis of superficial similarities and has predictably failed. Now it is time to make a prudent business decision and appoint a grown up manager.
Click to expand...

I really couldn't believe he was even in the running to be honest, whenever his name came up as a potential successor to SAF i brushed it off as lazy journalism because of the scottish connection. I cringed everytime i heard it suggested.

How the board were convinced that david moyes was the man to take on where SAF was leaving off is amazing in itself. Its always been said Fergie was persuasive but jesus how did he manage this one, the mans a fecking genius. The majority of people who watch football knew how United under Moyes would pan out. Almost every rival fan was delighted we gave him the job because they knew he should have been no where near it.
 
Can somebody clear things up regarding Europa. That article said 7th would be enough but I don't think so.

Even if Arsenal win, the place goes to runners up Hull, does it not? So that would leave 5th and 6th in the league.
 
Empire said:
Can somebody clear things up regarding Europa. That article said 7th would be enough but I don't think so.

Even if Arsenal win, the place goes to runners up Hull, does it not? So that would leave 5th and 6th in the league.
Click to expand...

If Arsenal finish 5th and win the fa cup?
 
Mainoldo said:
If Arsenal finish 5th and win the fa cup?
Click to expand...

I just read the article again, missed the bit about Arsenal finishing 5th! That is very unlikely though, I do think Everton have a series of tough games to finish this season therefore 4th is Arsenal's.

We need to catch Spurs, but preferably overtake Everton. Should we win every game between now and the end then I think we will sneak 5th. If we don't and finish 6th then we have Europa League games from our first week of the premier league season.
 
Mersault said:
Aye. I think it's imperative to appoint a top class manager. I'd take van Gaal with an OK transfer window to Moyes with a great one. But as there are multiple options, I'd take neither.
Click to expand...

van Gaal comes with his own risks obviously therefore although he is an upgrade on Moyes, he isn't most desirable. I'm not sure of there being multiple options though, who do you think would want the job?

Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola, Ancelotti and even Simeone don't seem likely, and the latter would probably have his own risks due to his use of star signs.

What options do you think are realistic, that would be a better choice than Louis van Gaal?
 
@Empire

It's hard to say. But I do find it oddly dismissive to say managers at overall smaller clubs, no disrespect, would not be interested in the United job. A job which has been made all the sweater now that Moyes has taken the sting out of SAF and gotten half the followers depressed. A platform is here for someone to become a hero.

Mourinho and Pep are locked in at their clubs. Ancelotti possibly so. Klopp and Simeone would be more realistic.

I'd gamble on van Gaal, Pochettino, Martinez and Hiddink, who all represent some kind of a risk for one reason or another, rather than stay as we are.

Basically, I'd put together a glorious presentation and sell a vision to Jurgen dubbed the Klopp era. Until he publicly categorically rules it out I'll believe it's possible.
 
Mersault said:
@Empire

It's hard to say. But I do find it oddly dismissive to say managers at overall smaller clubs, no disrespect, would not be interested in the United job. A job which has been made all the sweater now that Moyes has taken the sting out of SAF and gotten half the followers depressed. A platform is here for someone to become a hero.

Mourinho and Pep are locked in at their clubs. Ancelotti possibly so. Klopp and Simeone would be more realistic.

I'd gamble on van Gaal, Pochettino, Martinez and Hiddink, who all represent some kind of a risk for one reason or another, rather than stay as we are.

Basically, I'd put together a glorious presentation and sell a vision to Jurgen dubbed the Klopp era. Until he publicly categorically rules it out I'll believe it's possible.
Click to expand...

I think Klopp is committed to Dortmund. Hiddink also is going to become the coach of the Netherlands.

Martinez and Pochettino are not proven. Louis van Gaal seems to be the obvious choice. He is a bit hit and miss though in the sense he could have us mounting a serious title challenge or doing a Moyes. Barcelona 3 points above relegation in January and Bayern 4th in Bundesliga before getting sacked is probably as bad as what Moyes has done.
 
Empire said:
I think Klopp is committed to Dortmund. Hiddink also is going to become the coach of the Netherlands.

Martinez and Pochettino are not proven. Louis van Gaal seems to be the obvious choice. He is a bit hit and miss though in the sense he could have us mounting a serious title challenge or doing a Moyes. Barcelona 3 points above relegation in January and Bayern 4th in Bundesliga before getting sacked is probably as bad as what Moyes has done.
Click to expand...

It had totally escaped me Hiddink was taking over the Netherlands.

Van Gaal is a risk, but even those instances you refer to aren't as bad as Moyes this season. I doubt you can find a season in his whole career that matches Moyes' United season. He'd at the very least install a philosophy that takes us further, both in player development and ambition.
 
Empire said:
van Gaal comes with his own risks obviously therefore although he is an upgrade on Moyes, he isn't most desirable. I'm not sure of there being multiple options though, who do you think would want the job?

Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola, Ancelotti and even Simeone don't seem likely, and the latter would probably have his own risks due to his use of star signs.

What options do you think are realistic, that would be a better choice than Louis van Gaal?
Click to expand...

If Real could take Mourinho from Inter after a treble, we have to stand a good chance of taking Simeone even if he pulls off La Liga or the CL.
 
Cal? said:
If Real could take Mourinho from Inter after a treble, we have to stand a good chance of taking Simeone even if he pulls off La Liga or the CL.
Click to expand...

He is the most likely.

I just feel with Barcelona's inability to sign new players they have a great chance domestically next season especially if Barcelona lose Valdes and Puyol.

He would go all out to convince Hernandez to stay, he loves Geminis.

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1...ach-diego-simeone-believer-horoscopes?cc=5739

Atletico Madrid coach Diego Simeone has claimed that he looks at a player’s star sign before signing them, and says that he likes Geminis as they are aggressive and intense.

Simeone has had tremendous success in just over two years at Atletico, taking a previously disorganised and unmotivated squad and turning them into a focused and intense unit which is now a serious challenger for this season’s La Liga and Champions League trophies.

Asked by Spanish magazine Jotdown if he was a believer in horoscopes, the Argentine coach said that he was.

“Yes,” Simeone said. “Because the characteristics, the personalities are the same. Geminis are aggressive, changeable, intense. The characteristics of people according to their star sign are similar, and we pay attention to how we can get the best out of them. I like brave people.”
Click to expand...
 
To the Simeone advocates, what is it that makes Simeone a good candidate? Obviously he has the right attitude, but of the dozen or so times I've seen Atleti this year, similar number last year, his football looks exceedingly dour. Tacticially excellent, defensively excellent, motivation excellent, but very little in the way of flair or fantasy. Most games tend to be settled by individual moments of skill followed by the ability to close out a game. Much more like Chelsea in Mourinho's first season than what I'd expect from a United manager. Is that united manager?
 
bishblaize said:
To the Simeone advocates, what is it that makes Simeone a good candidate? Obviously he has the right attitude, but of the dozen or so times I've seen Atleti this year, similar number last year, his football looks exceedingly dour. Tacticially excellent, defensively excellent, motivation excellent, but very little in the way of flair or fantasy. Most games tend to be settled by individual moments of skill followed by the ability to close out a game. Much more like Chelsea in Mourinho's first season than what I'd expect from a United manager. Is that united manager?
Click to expand...

Mourinho's first season Chelsea got 95pts. Yes please.... :drool:
 
Cal? said:
Mourinho's first season Chelsea got 95pts. Yes please.... :drool:
Click to expand...

If its a choice between excellent football in fourth place or pragmatic football in first I could get it. But I'd hope we could go for attractive winning football.
 
bishblaize said:
To the Simeone advocates, what is it that makes Simeone a good candidate? Obviously he has the right attitude, but of the dozen or so times I've seen Atleti this year, similar number last year, his football looks exceedingly dour. Tacticially excellent, defensively excellent, motivation excellent, but very little in the way of flair or fantasy. Most games tend to be settled by individual moments of skill followed by the ability to close out a game. Much more like Chelsea in Mourinho's first season than what I'd expect from a United manager. Is that united manager?
Click to expand...

The enthusiasm for Simeone surprises me as well. From the point of view of demonstrating that football is a team game and that even now, winning is not all about who's got the most money, it's wonderful stuff, inspiring even.

In terms of how they actually play against good teams it's more reminiscent of Greece winning the Euros than Sir Matt Busby talking about football as a thing of beauty. It's admirable stuff and I've got a lot of respect for it but it doesn't really get me on my feet cheering. Of course dour and winning is preferable to dour and losing.
 
bishblaize said:
If its a choice between excellent football in fourth place or pragmatic football in first I could get it. But I'd hope we could go for attractive winning football.
Click to expand...
It's a myth that all Mourinho sides play dull football, he can be pragmatic when he needs to be, Barca v Inter, etc, but generally his sides have been the top or 2nd top scorers in every league he's been at.
 
Cal? said:
It's a myth that all Mourinho sides play dull football, he can be pragmatic when he needs to be, Barca v Inter, etc, but generally his sides have been the top or 2nd top scorers in every league he's been at.
Click to expand...

That's more a reflection on the overall quality of his teams than the way he plays. When you consider the talent in his teams and the league position they usually finish in, it's a poor statistic to use to demonstrate the brand of football he plays.
 
If there is a review at the end of the season and the outcome is anything but the departure of David Moyes, then we should be having a review of our reviewers.
 
I just pray to God that this time next year a realistic, successful young manager will have risen to prominence and becoming an obvious candidate for us after putting up with another 12 months of Moyes, right now there doesn't seem anyone available (Klopp) to build a longterm future (-Van Gaal) around.
Besides which I'm starting to consider the possiblity we may need Moyes to purchase some decent players to add to the squad this summer, if we replace him at seasons end and the new guy has a first summer as we had last, some serious gaps in our squad/1st team could start to emerge that would require substantial fixing.
 
rpitroda said:
That's more a reflection on the overall quality of his teams than the way he plays. When you consider the talent in his teams and the league position they usually finish in, it's a poor statistic to use to demonstrate the brand of football he plays.
Click to expand...

Moyes has a plethora of excellent attacking options, yet we struggle to score from open play. It's easy to simply say "That's more a reflection on the overall quality of his teams than the way he plays". But that is not the truth. He is a manager who loves to play counter-attacking football. Something Manchester United have been famous for over the years. Yes he is practical as well. But I would rather a manager who is practical and gets the wins than a manager who derides his team in the media and then gets hammered on the field.
 
BennyBlanco said:
I just pray to God that this time next year a realistic, successful young manager will have risen to prominence and becoming an obvious candidate for us after putting up with another 12 months of Moyes, right now there doesn't seem anyone available (Klopp) to build a longterm future (-Van Gaal) around.
Besides which I'm starting to consider the possiblity we may need Moyes to purchase some decent players to add to the squad this summer, if we replace him at seasons end and the new guy has a first summer as we had last, some serious gaps in our squad/1st team could start to emerge that would require substantial fixing.
Click to expand...

Then he will have shown his gross incompetence. At least that is what Moyes is constantly accused of round here.

PS Not really directed at you, just a general remark. One of the many reasons listed as proof Moyes is useless is his failure to strengthen properly during his first window in charge. Same must go for the next bloke, I'd assume.
 
NK86 said:
Moyes has a plethora of excellent attacking options, yet we struggle to score from open play. It's easy to simply say "That's more a reflection on the overall quality of his teams than the way he plays". But that is not the truth. He is a manager who loves to play counter-attacking football. Something Manchester United have been famous for over the years. Yes he is practical as well. But I would rather a manager who is practical and gets the wins than a manager who derides his team in the media and then gets hammered on the field.
Click to expand...

What has that got to do with anything? I quoted a post which implied that as Mourinho's sides score goals, they actually play attacking football. Which is wrong.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make?
 
bishblaize said:
To the Simeone advocates, what is it that makes Simeone a good candidate? Obviously he has the right attitude, but of the dozen or so times I've seen Atleti this year, similar number last year, his football looks exceedingly dour. Tacticially excellent, defensively excellent, motivation excellent, but very little in the way of flair or fantasy. Most games tend to be settled by individual moments of skill followed by the ability to close out a game. Much more like Chelsea in Mourinho's first season than what I'd expect from a United manager. Is that united manager?
Click to expand...

Sounds very similar to Moyes at Everton. Except Simeone would appear to have a winning mentality.
 
rpitroda said:
That's more a reflection on the overall quality of his teams than the way he plays. When you consider the talent in his teams and the league position they usually finish in, it's a poor statistic to use to demonstrate the brand of football he plays.
Click to expand...
He generally manages teams in the top 2 in each league and his teams generally are the top 2 scoring sides, I don't see how that's a poor statistic. It shows his sides generally score as many as reflected by their position in the league and not grind out 1-0s all the time as people suggest.
 
Feed Me said:
Sounds very similar to Moyes at Everton. Except Simeone would appear to have a winning mentality.
Click to expand...

Simeone's winning mentality isn't the only differece to Moyes. Although Atleti don't play beautiful football as has been pointed out, they still create some decent and dangerous chances in games. It's not like us this season where we hardly had a shot on target. Another difference is that Atleti players on the pitch know their role whereas with our players you have to ask yourself if even Moyes knows what they are supposed to do on the pitch, let alone the players knowing their role. Simeone also changes things early enough if it's not working. You always feel that he and the team knows exactly that the goal(s) will come!
 
rpitroda said:
What has that got to do with anything? I quoted a post which implied that as Mourinho's sides score goals, they actually play attacking football. Which is wrong.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make?
Click to expand...

And I simply said that it's too simplistic to say that he has a lot of good players and thus score goals. They score quite a few good goals which involve some lovely football.
 
He is still a manager under absolutely no pressure from his board or the media. I can't believe it.
 
If this is not enough then I think he really might still be here next season. We may as well have sent the team away on holiday after the Bayern defeat.
 
We won't win the 'moral high ground' fans award if we want rid of him. Give him time and all that.
 
If there were any doubts left by the board, please, please, please let this have settled in for them.

Watching him drive us into the ground is gut-wrenching.

We need rid because this man is our very own Souness and the longer he is given, the longer it will take us to fix all the things he fecks up about us as club.
 
We're not sacking him. After Ferguson's speech against Swansea last year it'd be wrong from the PR point of view to get rid of Moyes, basically ever. We are Moyes United.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.