What went wrong this year for Ole?

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Didn’t have a proper plan right from the start, there was no substance to what he was doing and eventually it all caught up with him.

Ole is a nice guy and he had simple ideas, that was always going to peak in first couple of seasons. Said last season there was no more to come, he’d done all he could, more time and more money weren’t going to change that.

Last year was a bit fortunate but also raised expectations and meant it was inevitable we were going to go backwards especially with tougher competition. As painful as this season has been it does bring an end to this experiment and stops us just plodding along.

Having Mcfred as his first choice midfield was just pure incompetence as well.
 
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steffyr2 said:
Ronaldo signed at the end of the transfer window. It's not like there was ever a decision to make between a midfielder or Ronaldo. Ole didn't go for a midfielder, didn't want one, didn't think he needed one -- apparently.
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Except we were strongly linked with quite a few CM's throughout the window.

Funds were no doubt limited after covid and having chased Sancho for two years that deal had to be done.

Now you can argue how he handled Donny and Sancho alright, it wasn't right.
 
Might sound nuts but lack of form of McFred. Yeah they are shite but who else do we have. Pogba and Donny yes but they are yet to be proven in a midfield 2 and even then who is capable of playing next to them? Matic? Added to the fact that we lost press from the front with Ronaldo and the defense being shit and Ole trying to play on the front foot it all collapsed. But the foundation is midfield and we dont have one. Teams just run through our midfield and on to the defense over and over and over. And when the defense has the ball they have no midfield player to pass to and when they do that midfielder doesnt have the ability to hold on to it and turn and pass forward. It all sht show and there are lots of reasons but ridiculous as it sounds we would be a much better team with a fully in form McFred. The true reason going further is not sorting it out in the summer but right now we will not get anywhere until we have some sort of functioning midfield.
 
Wrong transferpolicy. If you get Ronaldo your defensive organisation has to be completed different. And I don't know if we have the players to do that. And that takes time and he came just for the end of the transferwindow. But that is Man Utd. the last years, strange transferpolicy.
 
Rook said:
It's not a sudden thing. It's 2 years of sub-par coaching and management coming home to roost. We reached a point where the players were either no longer able or willing to carry him anymore.
Think of all the times, last season, we had to scrape wins or draws against teams who had way less quality than us but who still largely outplayed us. We finished a distant 2nd with a points total that would normally get 3rd - 5th because teams like Chelsea had Lampard, Spurs had Jose and Liverpool had injury problems.
There were definitely other factors but the staff were never good enough.
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This. Even when we were winning we were often getting outplayed by inferior teams. How many times in the past year did you read posts saying fergie also played negative football. This was the justification to the often raised question of why we kept getting outplayed and became overly reliant on sitting back and hitting teams on the break.

Oh yeah, that and Sancho. Things were magically going to fix themselves once he joined apparently.
 
The sheer size of the squad and options this season and Think his refusal to drop players based on performance in games and their form..............................has bought about the distrust in the team, think be lost half the players from it.

All I can think off. Players talk must been lot of talking behind his back wondering no matter how good I play or in training, Fred in no matter what
 
Keefy18 said:
Except we were strongly linked with quite a few CM's throughout the window.

Funds were no doubt limited after covid and having chased Sancho for two years that deal had to be done.

Now you can argue how he handled Donny and Sancho alright, it wasn't right.
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We've been strongly linked with a bunch of new managers lately too. Looks like that was also a crock, and we're going to a starting manager of Darrin Fletcher.
 
Dec9003 said:
Once you enter really bad form it’s so difficult to turn it around, that with relying on people that let him down. It just went stale sadly.
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Yes that is it. The poor form of individuals affected the form of the team which hit the confidence and dragged the form down further. Injuries at the wrong time in the context of failing form didn’t help. Once the rot takes hold, it is nigh on impossible to shake it off.

How we got there was the bigger issue and started back end of last season and it wasn’t nipped in the bud. The underlying problem was lack of quality in the squad, specifically midfield but some other areas as well. There was that long run of games where Ole wouldn’t make subs because the bench was so weak. The better players were run into the ground and the fringe players had their confidence smashed.

I don’t want it to sound like an excuse because the buck stops with Ole. That said, it really comes down to the resources (or lack of them) and the way they were utilised. Many a coach would have got more out of this squad but they would all have faced the same barrier to ultimate success.

The shame is that the squad is almost complete now, once they are all fit. I say “almost” because the first thing a new coach will do is buy a CM. Get the right one and we will be challenging.
 
Really ? We have been criticizing him the entire 3 years. Some were just deluding themselves think everything is good while it was clear Ole's United is going nowhere.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
His insitance of a midfield 2 and 424 when we really, really do not have the players for it.

Last year we tended to sit back and catch teams on the break with it, this year he tried to go on the front foot with the same team and it just left us vulnerable to every attack, yesterday was the epitome of it.
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No team can play that at a high level.
 
We statistically over performed points wise last season, and we fecked our balance up even more.

No bad luck, no special reason, we are just not good.
 
skc_18 said:
I really can’t understand this criticism. For last two seasons we complained we did not have no.9 and moaned that our forwards drop back. Now we have a very good no.9 who is excellent in finishing and really a fox in the box. And now we want a forward who can do everything. There is no one in the market by the way. Our problems are nothing to do with Ronaldo they were there last season too and we did not get exposed because other teams played bad. He is better than Martial , Rashford , does not get injured and always available.
There are always two opponent CBs marking him so it’s really other 10 of our players vs 9 of theirs. And our 10 are not playing good enough.
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Its a horrible excuse for Ole. There were some constant themes throughout his term which he never solved. One thing I would note is that there was a brief period during project restart where we actually seemed to play good football.

1. We have had large periods with particularly terrible attacking play. One of which came from august 2019 till about December that year. We were literally only scoring penalties/ counter attacks without any really attacking progression. Bruno came in and started literally creating everything for us. Essentially since then, our attacking play has come from individual brilliance from Bruno, with patches from Ronaldo, Greenwood and Rashford; but hardly any truly coming from build up.

2. We've had patches of really disorganized play to start our season since Ole has come in. Last year in particularly was terrible. Regardless of Covid, our team was completely unprepared to start last season, with varying degrees of similarities to how we have looked at points this season. Similar criticisms of Maguire, similar ease in cutting through our midfield. For a manager at a club seeking to win or compete for the league, it was amateur to have his squad that unprepared.

3. Our build up play has been too slow and it has made it hard for our attackers to have the ball in more comfortable areas, particularly our wingers. It's the reason Sancho has struggled to settle in and why despite Greenwood improving significantly, he isn't getting the goal opportunities he should be getting.

Put all these things together and Ronaldo clearly has nothing to do with how poorly we've been playing. In fact, we also had an incompetent forward in Martial who was lazy and led our forward line for the majority of Ole's reign. So if Ronaldo not pressing effectively and shifting to the left causes us issues, then Martial was clearly doing the same prior. Ole is to blame for Ole. Simple as that.
 
largelyworried said:
Simple really, he never got the basics right. We were never competent in possession, can't play from the back, never had a consistent press, always vulnerable to opposition press, poor at set pieces and never had a plan for how to break down teams. All problems of coaching, either in the the plan or the execution.

He just relied on individual talent to make up the gap and stacked the squad with it instead of properly coaching the team. When the individual talent fell short, confidence dropped and it it became harder and harder for players to find those individual moments. A classic doom spiral. At that point we had nothing to fall back on, no method, no structure, no plan. Just hoping for more moments.

We've struggled for several spells under Ole, but this time it combined with a rough run of fixtures, and defeats begat defeats. Then it just became a simple crisis of confidence that can hit any team.
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I agree completely, you covered it.
 
steffyr2 said:
We've been strongly linked with a bunch of new managers lately too. Looks like that was also a crock, and we're going to a starting manager of Darrin Fletcher.
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There was more than links tbf, pretty sure Camavinga agent said discussions were had but the kid had his heart set on Real. So be it.

We had a once in a lifetime chance to sign Varane, he's not the kind of player you can turn your back on. Especially considering how poor our CB's have been.

I'm not saying CM wasn't / isn't an issue, but that's how it goes sometimes.
 
Isn’t just this season. Issues been there for a while. Even in the good times usually we were winning through salvaging games rather than going out and playing well and dominating with a game plan. A culmination of mistaking ‘barely good enough’ for ‘the United way’ for too long
 
Mick1 said:
I think the Cristiano deal ended Solskjaer's career here. Fact is, we don't have the playstyle, personel or tactical set up to allow for a passenger, especially from a defensive point of view, lose support in midfield in the buildup and just playing a more counter attacking style ( Ole's forte ). Also we have a player that covers less than half what other players in his position cover, without a team capable of covering for this. Fact is, pressing turned out to be important.

I knew the moment Ronaldo was announced that Ole would not last, and any incoming manager will suffer because of it. I loved him coming here, but I thought it was with the understanding that he is 37 and will be rotated in and out of the team. No matter how many goals he will score, having Ronaldo on means we will get outworked every single game, and the stats with him vs w/o him in the team proves that.

Team isn't good/dominant enough for a passenger, the league's overall pace and the goal output will pay for itself in loss of battles all around the pitch due to being outworked.
I genuinely don't think Ronaldo would start often for City or Liverpool, maybe even Chelsea, because the tacticle drawbacks of having one of the least defensively responsible players of this generation ( possibly 2nd after Messi ) are too heavy. A 37 year old GOAT is still 37.

Hope we get a caretaker for the season. The Ronaldo issue is Nuclear and I wouldnt want a permanent manager to have to tip toe around this. I think the season is not salvageable.

Fergie coming out and saying Ronaldo has to start ended any fighting chance Ole had. Think he d have finished the season otherwise.
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I just wanted to say thanks Mick1, for weeks I have felt a bit of a loan voice on the Ronaldo issue and as regards the malign influence of Sir Alex Ferguson, several years! Finally I'm getting some support.

Let's park the Ronaldo thing for a minute - the other matter is still a problem. I wonder who thought keeping Phelan on (with Carrick) was a good idea?

I heard on the radio today suggestions Roy Keane might be good in some sort of temporary assistant role, but I knew straight away that wouldn't happen - the club Ambassador wouldn't allow it and on and on and on.... Roberto Mancini for Manager? or Zinedine Zidane? (who is available now) no & no, it will be Pochettino and why, because Sir Alex Ferguson says so....

I've said it before and I will say it again: no matter how successful Pep/Klopp/Tuchel are, one day they will stop and the next day they won't be on the payroll. Why do Man Utd. keep paying SAF £ 3 million a year to make, quite frankly, bad decisions?

You build an empire, brilliant - but you then hang around (even if its in the background, 'advising') and the empire falls, you shouldn't be untouchable and beyond criticism. It's not just Ole who has had his legendary status brought into question recently, but SAF too and over a much longer period: race horse bust up - cozy up to the Glazers - stop buying midfielders (get Scholes back) - anoint Moyes (because Mourinho - in 2013 - wasn't the right fit for Utd!) back Ole, undermine Ole (with the Ronaldo thing) then back him some more - well he had to cos of the phone call he had made.... and so it goes on, have I missed anything?

What a mess. Ole is not the only one the club should be thanking and saying "bye-bye" to, this weekend....
 
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Shit coaching.

Leaving players play without direction and decent coaching is fine until it does not work. When it does not, the manager and the coaching team needs to act and change things, something that this team was completely incapable.

Also, playing favorites who were playing badly. It is always a fast way of destroying the team spirit.
 
JebelSherif said:
I just wanted to say thanks Mick1, for weeks I have felt a bit of a loan voice on the Ronaldo issue and as regards the malign influence of Sir Alex Ferguson, several years! Finally I'm getting some support.

Let's park the Ronaldo thing for a minute - the other matter is still a problem. I wonder who thought keeping Phelan on (with Carrick) was a good idea?
I heard on the radio today suggestions Roy Keane might be good in some sort of temporary assistant role, but I knew straight away that wouldn't happen - the club Ambassador wouldn't allow it and on and on and on.... Roberto Mancini for Manager? or Zinedine Zidane? (who is available now) no & no, it will be Pochettino and why, because Sir Alex Ferguson says so....

I've said it before and I will say it again: no matter how successful Pep/Klopp/Tuchel are, one day they will stop and the next day they won't be on the payroll. Why do Man Utd. keep paying SAF £ 3 million a year to make, quite frankly, bad decisions?

You build an empire, brilliant - but you then hang around (even if its in the background, tinkering) and the empire falls, you shouldn't be untouchable and beyond criticism. It's not just Ole who has had his legendary status brought into question recently, but SAF too and over a much longer period: race horse bust up - cozy up to the Glazers - stop buying midfielders (get Scholes back) - anoint Moyes (because Mourinho - in 2013 - wasn't the right fit for Utd!) back Ole, undermine Ole (with the Ronaldo thing) then back him some more - well he had to cos of the phone call he had made.... and so it goes on, have I missed anything?

What a mess. Ole is not the only one the club should be thanking and saying "bye-bye" to, this weekend....
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Utter bullshit. It’s vaccine denial level of lunacy to suggest the horse had anything to do with it. Do you think the majority of shareholders who sold up who didn’t have a fall out with Ferguson sold their shares fearing that if they didn’t one day they’d buy a horse and fall out with him over it?

Do you think the Glazer family made the biggest single investment they’ll likely ever make to help out a guy to that point they’d never met because he was having a dispute with some shareholders in club they had already invested in and stuck around for 18 years out of social niceties ?


The butt-hurt wannabe “ultras” fans brigade still crying Ferguson never kissed their ass are always hilarious after all these years


But yeah, it was a horse. That’s definitely how things worked. Every major shareholder also had a horse

Jock of Gibraltar
Lock of Gibraltar
Cock of Gibraltar


You must remember them. Thousands of shareholders all sold because of their own horse. Only reason anyone sold. Why else would anyone sell shares unless a horse was involved?

The bastard Glazer family insisted those who didn’t have horses bought one first before buying their shares


Oh and he said ‘no value in the market’ once didn’t he? He’ll burn for that I’m sure.
 
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Nogbadthebad said:
His insitance of a midfield 2 and 424 when we really, really do not have the players for it.

Last year we tended to sit back and catch teams on the break with it, this year he tried to go on the front foot with the same team and it just left us vulnerable to every attack, yesterday was the epitome of it.
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You are spot on for me

I get that ball playing defenders, 2 midfielders, flying wingers and full backs are sexy.
But it’s not when you’re midfield options can not retain the ball as a 2
Your defenders are actually not ball playing and are slow as f.
When the only player that could offer protection is past his best (matic)
When one of your full backs is a donkey with the ball.
Our wingers are really strikers so they don’t offer width, and first instinct is to look for a route to goal rather than an assist.

It’s like he found the worst qualities in the squad this year.
He had a decent plan last year, counter attacking against the big teams. We didn’t sign the players that allowed for a change in tactics
But we did sign players that upgraded the squad so I don’t know why he didn’t just do more of the same but add Ronaldos goals. It might not of win the league but we’d be up there.
 
stw2022 said:
Utter bullshit. It’s vaccine denial level of lunacy to suggest the horse had anything to do with it. Do you think the majority of shareholders who sold up who didn’t have a fall out with Ferguson sold their shares fearing that if they didn’t one day they’d buy a horse and fall out with him over it?

Do you think the Glazer family made the biggest single investment they’ll likely ever make to help out a guy to that point they’d never met because he was having a dispute with some shareholders in club they had already invested in and stuck around got 18 years out of social niceties ?


The butt-hurt wannabe “ultras” fans brigade still crying Ferguson never kissed their ass are always hilarious after all these years
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OK - I stand corrected re: The Rock of Gibraltar, but what about the other stuff?

“There are none so blind as those who will not see”
 
What if it all started to go downhill after last season's fan protest and players reacting badly to it?
 
For me, it's a failure to recognise his own weaknesses and a blind faith in the wrong people.

He needed one modern tactical coach, and one person to play 'bad cop' in his coaching team.
 
In March 2003 the Glazers definitely purchased shares with rumours of takeover reported in the press just in case there was a fall out over a horse. Why would anyone else buy a sports team? It’s what investors do. Buy shares, wait for a horse to come between friends. Basis of capitalism that. Text book. Glazers foresight was remarkable.

“That looks like a club that might have an issue with a horse one day. Let’s buy some shares” was the quote in the FT at the time


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2813439.stm

Every time I hear of someone taking over a club I think: “which cnut of a horse is responsible this time?”
 
Its hard to say for sure what specifically went wrong this season. You can say he had no plan, no tactics, all that usual stuff which his detractors have pointed to but it's not clear exactly why this season has been such a catastrophic dip when the personnel is largely the same with a few additions that can only be described as quality players. If he didn't have any nous then he didn't have it for the previous few years either, so what are the determining factors that are specific to this year?

I think the fans being back has not helped us. We don't have an energetic style, so when fans came back it has spurred on every side that presses better than us and we've been unable to adapt. That training ground feel suited us.

I think possibly he lost some credibility with a number of players. I think the players like him, but I don't think there's that level of respect for his acumen. At some point that has reached a fork in the road and gone the wrong way, maybe it was Ronaldo incoming but who knows for sure.

Then of course you have to look at the performances. That comes from many things. The players feeling about him translates to lacklustre effort. The lack of structure translates to scrappy performances where we can't keep the ball, create. That compounds itself into individual errors because of pressure, of which we have had spectacular amounts, probably a full season's worth. Then you can't really turn the ship back if you don't know how and the players aren't responding.
 
A few people mention Varane being injured as a factor to why we're worse than previous season. We've just signed him :wenger:
 
There has never been a clear plan and that really starts to catch up with a team the more players you add. We’ve spent a huge amount of money on a really random selection of players but I’m confident there’s a genuinely elite team in there.
 
Honestly nothing went wrong. His cycle had simply just reached it's end. This happens for pretty much every manager out there. Signings in different areas and other things like this would make no difference. The writing was on the wall and that's just it.
 
I think Ole was hit by a little bit of everything at the same time. He started the other two seasons poorly as well but then we gradually found our rhythm. This didn't happen this time for 3 reasons:

1. The defense: Maguire and Shaw have been in terrible form and AWB hasn't been great either(although the difference between last season and now is smaller). Varane has been injured a lot, so he hasn't been able to bail us out. We were always a bit shaky defensively, even when these players were doing their best. On their current form, teams will simply score for free.

2. The midfield: McFred was never good, but now they are worse than ever.

3. Coaching: we're too disorganized in midfield and defense. This has made a shit situation even worse.

TLDR; coaching was never our strong suit under Ole and we always started the season poorly. But with key players being out of form on top of this, it was always going to be a disaster. Better coaching could have helped us ride this out, but so could better performances from our players.
 
Dahmmy said:
for whatever reason, he didnt have the sense to rotate players... like sticking with greenwood, greenwood as good as he can be is still young..integrate sancho into the team
rightback use Dalot
left back use Telles..
stop playing McFred, give VDB a few games..
for Strikers give one half to Caviani one half to Ronaldo etc....etc

he just didnt see it... love the guy but hes not a Elite manager..
and at the end it took the players who came out and said, Ole doesnt know what hes doing... hurts but true.
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Agreed. Ole ran Bruno into the ground and rushed Maguire back despite his clear lack of fitness. His belief in McFred was mind-boggling.

If you had to boil it down to a core failing, it Ole's failure to rotate players who form cried out for rotation that led to our dismal performances in the second half of the season, which continued through the beginning of this season.
 
I think the main two issues were compromising his principles by signing Ronaldo which weakened the overall team approach and alienating half the dressing room by sticking by underperforming players and refusing to give popular players like DVB, Lingard and Bailly a chance.

The coaching was clearly questionable, but I think he could have got by til the end of the season if this was the only issue.

That said I think there was a clear sense of neglect towards the defensive side of coaching, and that manifested in players like Shaw, AWB and Maguire gradually turning to shit.
 
1. Ole complete lack of tactical knowledge and application was painfully found out this season. Every team knows how to play against us. We are easy prey for them. Our coaching team is the worst in the league too.

2. Sanche and VDB. He bought them for 115m, yet he has no idea how to use them. Complete waste of money with near to zero contribution under Ole system, if there is one.

3. Maguire and AWB. Another 130m spent, yet they have left a bigger hole at times, and have no idea how to play competent back four unit. Also, poor form of Shaw doesn’t help much, it’s worst.

4. And of course, McFred. Favouritism and insistence to play the 2 most untalented double pivot every game in the most important area of the pitch, who can’t pass the ball, nor play any football. We basically got outplayed every game in midfield with these two on the field. Ole had spent nearly 500m over past 3 years, yet he left us with these 2 shite players in midfield. Unforgivable.

5. Poor form of Bruno, the player who has carried us over past 2 season. If it wasn’t Bruno over these past 2 years though, Ole would have been sacked long ago.

6. Injury of Varane, which coincide with our worst run of form recently which leads to shambolic defence.

7. Playing 3 forwards with non pressing approach and no link up play. If Cavani plays more games maybe this could be solved. Our best game this season is against Spur, with Cavani, Ronaldo and Bruno in attack. Perfect balance. But we never seem to have chance to play that more often. We seems cant find any balance/coherence between Greenwood, Rashford, and Martial in attack. They are good young individuals, but poor team players. And of course Ronaldo never press much in lone striker role. We need balance.
 
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  • I think Poor transfer is the first. McFred is simply such a terrible midfield duo (especially Fred really). Barely top 8 material. A midfielder, not Ronaldo was needed.
  • Disastrous defensive work rate of ronaldo, pogba and fernandes.
  • Poor defense. A bit unlucky here given varane injury and maguire collapse.
 
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