What went wrong this year for Ole?

[Mick1]

lets put an end to this Ronaldo rubbish after all Pep [one of the best managers going} wanted to sign him. you can't blame Ronaldo cause half the team is not up to it.

This is the point. You can't play Ronaldo when only half the team is up for it. He Wil score, but the whole team play will suffer. He d do great at city though

 

[bosnian_red]

What went wrong is that there were elevated expectations as it was time to step up from top 4 competitors to title challengers. He received the financial backing and the players to do so. He wasn't talented enough as a manager to carry that out, so you get a much bigger collapse as a result.

People need to stop treating managers weirdly. Just like players, there are levels to football managers. You are either good enough for the top level, or you quite simply are not and it'll be exposed against other top managers.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

What went wrong is that there were elevated expectations as it was time to step up from top 4 competitors to title challengers. He received the financial backing and the players to do so. He wasn't talented enough as a manager to carry that out, so you get a much bigger collapse as a result.

People need to stop treating managers weirdly. Just like players, there are levels to football managers. You are either good enough for the top level, or you quite simply are not.

Yup. This is just Soslkjaer's level as a manager - he's been sacked with 17 points from 12 games, which is an improvement on 2019/20 by... 1 point.

If we kept going with him for the entire season we'd have picked up 65-70 points again - the squad is too far ahead of 75% of the league to not get at least that many, and he doesn't have the managerial chops to get any more out of it. Only difference is that we're (rightly) expected to be doing way better than that now.

 

[Hughie77]

He was out of his depth, and getting top players in at a club like UTD is the easier part of the deal, motivation of those egos is the hardest part, he could not do it. Simply being a nice guy gets you so far, then you have to have 2 faces and I think he had 1, and it was all to see.
The players have left him down , but he didn't deal well enough with them doing it.
Ultimately the job was to big, but he has got a better squad than the previous 2.

 

[Ralph1386]

There was no plan to buy a defensive midfielder.

All the talk from credible sources was that our transfer activity was done after Sancho and Varane. There was only the possibility of getting Trippier if he were available on the cheap.

Exactly. The plan was to splash the cash on Sancho and a CB this year, then splash it on a DM like Rice next year. It’s not the Ronaldo money that impeded us from getting a midfielder, it’s the Sancho money.

 

[JebelSherif]

lets put an end to this Ronaldo rubbish after all Pep [one of the best managers going} wanted to sign him. you can't blame Ronaldo cause half the team is not up to it.

Well no - we shouldn't 'put an end to this Ronaldo rubbish' because getting rid of OGS doesn't solve that problem - Ronaldo has messed things up massively. It wasn't the plan. Furthermore I'm really upset about one particular player (and nobody seems to be talking about this): Edison Cavani. It was well known that he wanted to go back to S. America, but Utd. bent over backwards to keep him and I am sure assurances were given. But then Ronaldo joins and yet again, broken promises. The club is really going to struggle to attract talent in the future because it will become known amongst the top players that the place is not to be trusted. Oh and Cavani is 34 - Utd. have sidelined a 34 year old for a 36 year old - who was brilliant by the way (movement and effort 100%) & scored the goal of the season, in my book, of 2020-21. It is crazy.

Your argument (about Pep) doesn't really stand up either because as has been alleged elsewhere on here - are MUFC absolutely sure Jorges Mendes didn't start the Man City rumour to push Utd. into an extravagant purchase? Or even worse, maybe the people at City did it!

 

[RedIan]

Buying Ronaldo screwed us. We lost the high press and speed on the counter attack..
failing to buy a top quality DM…
ignoring DVB quality and playing mcfred.
fighting for 2 years to sign Sancho to sort the right wing issues… then never playing him on RW.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Buying Ronaldo screwed us. We lost the high press and speed on the counter attack..
failing to buy a top quality DM…
ignoring DVB quality and playing mcfred.
fighting for 2 years to sign Sancho to sort the right wing issues… then never playing him on RW.

We never pressed without Ronaldo.

This myth being spread that we were this functional high pressing team without Ronaldo needs to end.

 

[eire-red]

Think it's pretty simple, and others have stated it already. Once it becomes apparent that we're never going to challenge with Ole, I think it's virtually impossible. Once you know you're going nowhere, it's difficult to keep those levels up.

Before, there was always the talk on giving him time, giving him the players and letting him build a squad capable of getting close. Once we had that and it still wasn't working, well the writing was on the wall. From there, the wheels can come off very quickly.

 

[hurricane thunderclap]

In answer to the question, general incompetence.
We move on, please.

 

[sp_107]

It is Ronaldo not because how he play but its because of how Ole's team play,7
Since ROnaldo arrived Ole's ususal counter attacking didnt work and that was the main reason we failed this season

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Well no - we shouldn't 'put an end to this Ronaldo rubbish' because getting rid of OGS doesn't solve that problem - Ronaldo has messed things up massively. It wasn't the plan. Furthermore I'm really upset about one particular player (and nobody seems to be talking about this): Edison Cavani. It was well known that he wanted to go back to S. America, but Utd. bent over backwards to keep him and I am sure assurances were given. But then Ronaldo joins and yet again, broken promises. The club is really going to struggle to attract talent in the future because it will become known amongst the top players that the place is not to be trusted. Oh and Cavani is 34 - Utd. have sidelined a 34 year old for a 36 year old - who was brilliant by the way (movement and effort 100%) & scored the goal of the season, in my book, of 2020-21. It is crazy.

Your argument (about Pep) doesn't really stand up either because as has been alleged elsewhere on here - are MUFC absolutely sure Jorges Mendes didn't start the Man City rumour to push Utd. into an extravagant purchase? Or even worse, maybe the people at City did it!

Your crusade is admirable. Just need to add a few lines about Ferguson's involvement in the Ronaldo transfer.

And Cavani has been "sidelined" because he's been injured or quarantined for half our league games so far. Not sure where the broken promises are, unless we promised him he'd never get hurt again as part of the pitch to extend his deal.

 

[cyril C]

So suddenly almost all of our players are unprofessional enough to get to the season in good fitness? That would be rather odd.

So you think our players are professional enough, fitness wise, attitude wise? Yes they normally wake up after half time, including the CL games, so these count for almost the entire season post Leeds. Problem is, you can't always bounce back, you can't get away with sloppy 1st half, every single game. If Carrick & team is not responsible for players' physical fitness and mental preparation, then who is?

If you compare our form with last season, yes we often conceded goal during 1st half, but never as gifts as this season. So it got worse and worse, and if Ole couldn't do anything about it, he should leave, period. I don't know whether you will call this "losing the dressing room", but so many players did not "turn up" during 1st 20min, and games after game.

 

[Greck]

We never pressed without Ronaldo.

This myth being spread that we were this functional high pressing team without Ronaldo needs to end.

I'm reading these posts thinking "what high press?". We played a deep lying counter attacking setup without the ball. Not even a Ronaldo fan but the stuff about high press and how the poor form kicked off right when he came just feels like scapegoating and excuse making for a tenure that over its entirety was characterised by excuse making and scapegoating. It was Jose and poor fitness, no preseason, short preseason, can't attack because of no ball playing CB (would lead to the justification of the Maguire signing as the final puzzle piece), board sabotaged Ole not giving him Bruno early enough, didn't give him Sancho so no title push could be expected, can't play high because of poor front 3, perpetually two years away from a title challenge, any midtable teams that beats us has a better midfield than us, need a 9 to succeed, number 9 we bought was why we failed. Madness.

Didn't factor in how many strikers who score those easy goals we supposedly lacked do so by being poachers. If you put the wrong piece in a good system it doesn't go from good to bad, it stays good but slightly less effective. If Liverpool or City played a poacher we wouldn't expect the entire unit to suddenly become dysfunctional. The team as a whole would retain some of its effectiveness if it ever had any.

 

[Stig]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is understood to have rejected the chance to reshuffle his backroom staff and instead ultimately fell on his sword at Manchester United.

Idiot.

 

[Reducation]

Before Ronaldo arrived: 7 points from the first 3 games, Greenwood scored in all 3.
Comparing the first 3 games with what has come after is not conclusive, but it looks a bit stark, especially when considering Greenwood's potential and devleopment. Picking the best team from now on is very important. Imagine getting the best out of Sancho and Greenwood!

*Spend whatever it takes to get Declan Rice. Jettison Pogba.

 

[Bebestation]

Before Ronaldo arrived: 7 points from the first 3 games, Greenwood scored in all 3.
Comparing the first 3 games with what has come after is not conclusive, but it looks a bit stark, especially when considering Greenwood's potential and devleopment. Picking the best team from now on is very important. Imagine getting the best out of Sancho and Greenwood!

We were not perfect at the start, but we were still not getting hammered 4-1 by Watford.

Im not saying we are good as them- but I'd say in the first 3 games we were losing or drawing games no more than Chelsea and Liverpool have drawn with Brightons and Brentford etc.

Pogba was in immense form as a LW. Greenwood was starting to score as a young striker. There was obvious space for Sancho.
Bruno fernandes scoring a hattrick in his first game and making things tick, if it wasn't him, it was Pogba.

Then Ronaldo came and instantly took the ST spot. Pogba couldn't play as a LW anymore because Greenwood was no longer the striker. Greenwood got moved to RW. Pogba went back to deep in CM. Bruno missed a penalty from the new pressure of a different penalty taker, something he has hardly done. Maguire the captain is playing like a pussy. Shaw is all over the place after a fantastic season. Sancho is now a LW only until Rashford comes. Greenwood has lost all form and can't score or do anything after Ronaldo has come. Everyone is calling Greenwood selfish for being a ST playing at RW - but no one says shit about Ronaldo being selfish as the Striker who cant hold the ball or pass to any of the inverted forwards around. Bruno Fernandes numbers are good but turns much more creative, has lost his ability to score goals or influence the ability to win and take penalties- now he is creating chances for no one except Ronaldo.

For the first time, teams are not playing low block vs us and trying to control our attack - this was what people complained about the most last season "why can't we create chances vs a low block team". Ever since Ronaldo came, not a single team has played low block vs us. The only time our team was able to influence the opposition to go low block again vs when Cavani was playing vs Everton - we were completely dominating that game; Ronaldo comes and suddenly Everton are playing like Barcelona TikiTaka football.

Watford are dominating the football match vs United. 20 shots vs United with 7 on target - United 9 shots with 3 on target. Proper dominating performance.



Look how we played before Ronaldo came. We were the BETTER TEAM.



Look at us afterwards.

It's absolutely incredible - the only thing changed from last season to this season is Ronaldo, but boy his family members blame every single player except him. I'd say the fact that our 2 best players have been Ronaldo and De Gea says alot about what has happened to our team.

 

[kthanksbye]

Mentioned somewhere else too, what went wrong was that last season the competition was limping, Lampard was struggling with Chelsea, Spurs had Jose, Liverpool had injuries, Arteta was finding his feet at Arsenal, Rogers and Moyes were anyway punching above their weight.
Our away record was never going to be sustainable as comebacks are a different story in empty stadiums, and our home record anyway had to be improved on, which it didn't even with Ronaldo and Sancho, but the signs were already there.
Then I read something about penalties, we've had one this season that we missed?

In conclusion, what happened this season with Ole wasn't as surprise if you were even badly watching our games. Knew it since the EL final loss, every day Ole is in charge, is a day wasted.

 

[Jack Landers]

He had all the support anyone could ask for. The bosses, the players and staff all loved him. They actually paid for the transfers he requested and gave him more time than he deserves. But time and time again, he made the same choices. He keeps saying he had the best team and coaches. Then why did he fail? The problem is him.

He is too ignorant or stubborn to realise what everyone sees. Look at the PSG game last year, every single person on the planet (except him) knew that Fred is going to get a red card and should've been subbed. Same with playing GW and Ronaldo. He never makes a substitution even when it was obvious that it is needed due to injury or performance. Usually wait till the 85 min mark even if we are 2 goals down.

He typically plays players who are unfit rather than the players he fought to keep. Yes, he actually renewed and is in the process of renewing contracts for Jesse, Baily, Mata etc even though he plays them for 5 min every 4 months. Blocks transfers for players he doesn't play (Rojo, Romero, Donny) for no reason at all. We have 7 goal keepers at the club for ef sake. Other capable managers knows how to rotate their squad to keep everyone match fit instead of throwing players into the wolves by featuring them only when the fav gets injured. And then in his mind he thinks he is correct not to play that player if he fails (despite the player not having seen any game time in months).

It is quite easy to see how incompetent Ole is for 2 plus years but because it was Ole, the legend, the nice guy, people come to his defence. It's a shame. If we had a new manager start of the season, we'd be competing with the ez fixtures we had. Instead, we are looking at another rebuild with Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani, Henderson definitely leaving and Ronaldo, Donny, Telles, Bailey, Martial and Bruno possibly leaving.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Definitely NOT signing Ronaldo.

 

[InspiRED]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/man-united-news-solskjaer-sacked-21959851

New article by Luckhurst.

I can't remember the cafs opinion on Luckhurst but it seems that now the cats away the mice shall play. It's all coming out. Some interesting insights but nothing that anybody familiar with the zeitgeist here would be necessarily -surprised- by, but it would be interesting to hear guesses as to who the Manchester United player is that was "made to look like shit" by someone next to them, and interesting that they weren't happy with the Henderson / de Gea resolution (or lack thereof, it was 'solved' when Henderson got covid, but given how poor de Gea has been in some games you have to wonder if that was really solved to our benefit).

Interesting article. I’ve always thought Luckhurst was quite reliable. I found this bit quite interesting ‘Ronaldo had quickly concluded the team would not be successful with Solskjaer as manager’. Well, he definitely wasn’t alone.

Interesring posts on this thread. Im intrigued by point made that what made it all go so spectacularly bad suddenly, was the players heads going after being repeatedly chucked under the bus by ex player pundits in the media. This while management seemed to constantly escape scrutiny (except for maybe scholes uncomfortable efforts to relay what he believed). I find that plausible, that would get inside your head eventually as you realised you were playing in a ‘game’ it wasn’t possible to win at. Would help explain the abject nature of the capitulation, as while we were tactically poor, I was not expecting that level of disintegration.

 

[Mick1]

We never pressed without Ronaldo.

This myth being spread that we were this functional high pressing team without Ronaldo needs to end.

That is the point. Our press was already inefficient. You can add Ronaldo to a Liverpool and they won't struggle in the same way we are because of their efficient team pressing they are more likely to be able to carry a passenger if he guarantees offensive output.

We are not a dominant team that struggles to score. We are a team that struggles to dominate. This is a key point to consider before bashing Ronaldo, or the ones saying he is the problem.

He is, with the way the team plays. But he is also an absolute monster when it comes to productivity so under different management he might be the icing on the cake.

But we are not under different management, and by the team a new coach would have had this team playing to this theoretical dominance level, Ronaldo would be 38.

 

[Skills]

That is the point. Our press was already inefficient. You can add Ronaldo to a Liverpool and they won't struggle in the same way we are because of their efficient team pressing they are more likely to be able to carry a passenger if he guarantees offensive output.

We are not a dominant team that struggles to score. We are a team that struggles to dominate. This is a key point to consider before bashing Ronaldo, or the ones saying he is the problem.

He is, with the way the team plays. But he is also an absolute monster when it comes to productivity so under different management he might be the icing on the cake.

But we are not under different management, and by the team a new coach would have had this team playing to this theoretical dominance level, Ronaldo would be 38.

We've never tried to press. It's nothing about inefficiency - the team was never set up to press under Solskjaer. People confuse closing down players, with pressing - our players are asked to close down the man with the ball. All players are at all levels - some are better at it than others. But that's not pressing.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Summer '21 no midfield signings.

 

[The United]

I thought Ole used to play a kind of high press in his first season for a few months then for some reason he gave it up. There were rumors of players getting fed up with doing fitness all the time.

We just went back to a lazy team being in his 2nd for some reason.

Ole biggest issue probably might have been not being able to convince players to work harder on the pitch.

 

[U.N.C.L.E]

I’ve often thought about our midfield under SAF - once we “clicked“ in the early/mid 90s we always had a solid group (and backup) across the middle of the park. Only when we got into the late 20-noughties and maybe even in early 20-teens did we begin to lose those solid players in the engine room of the team. I‘ve lamented the lack of vision in replacing the Carricks/Fletchers etc and whilst it looked ”fixed” with Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger it was a false dawn. Since then it’s been a bastardised midfield and we’ve never seemed to have a plan to create a proper skeleton of players “north to south”.

 

[Tarrou]

I don’t think much changed in terms of performances

We had a really shit patch every season since he got here

Difference this year are the expectations are much higher

This is partly because Ole finishing 2nd and building a good squad raised them, but this is what managing a big club is supposed to be like

The key for me was not signing the right midfielder, or ever really fixing the midfield since he got here. We never had consistency because of that

 

[NewGlory]

Just bad luck really , he was close,very close. A few more things on the training ground and it would have been alright.

This is totally wrong.

Ole's luck wasn't bad this year, it was just too good last couple years, and let's be honest - we benefitted from other teams getting affected by COVID pandemic much worse than us.

Ole's downfall was his weak leadership, horrible coaching staff, and weird recruitement + team selection riddled with favoritism. Luck was the least of it.

Some of the specifics that tipped borderline situation to worse:

1. Maguire's atrocious form and Ole still playing him, as well as Shaw's drastic drop in the form made our defense an open door, considering that AWB was always problematic.

2. Midfield is a total mess. Not buying a proper #6 has been backfiring

3. In general the team was very badly coached. Could be apathy of some players or lack of effort from averagely capable coaching staff

Ole’s been wrong since last season. Our 2nd place finish was just luck.

100%

 

[RkkMan]

Simple. Expectations were raised and our performances coupled with Ole's tactical deficiencies finally caught up with him. Too many times we looked like a team fighting for their lives with their backs against the wall and it used to bail Ole out many times until it couldn't. Such a tactic is okay to enhance mentality but it's not sustainable if you want to build a title winning team. Chelsea, City and Liverpool always assert a certain level of control in games with a clear idea of how they'll play. Such styles need a highly tactical manager to implement and Ole simply didn't have the tactical acumen to apply a style that isn't counter attacking football which like I said isn't enough to challenge for major honors. All these other stuff being mentioned about the players or even The Glazers(yes they're greedy cnuts but they backed him and invested a lot of stock in him with the Data Science Department, Academy revamp, Technical Director and DOF) is just mental gymnastics of people refusing to accept the clear reality that pinning your hopes on a failed Cardiff Manager who's success was achieved at Molde in a league that's barely top 20 in Europe was always going to be a brave but naive decision

 

[wolvored]

He was here to make friends, or how the interview comes across to me.

Players sensed this and instead of applying effort simply didn't bother if displays on the pitch are to go by.

Needed a ruthless streak. This isn't a game for friends

Yes good point. He also bought up his wins at the start and his away record as if it was a trophy. Some on here speak about how we nearly could have won the EC. Careful what you wish for, because if he had won it, he would very likely still be manager!

 

[Newtonius]

Not a coincidence our form died when Bruno's died is it, he literally came in and saved Ole's job performances weren't that different before he arrived maybe even worse they just didn't get such bad results as consistently, especially against the bigger teams.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

From what I saw, It started from that lost vs West Ham United in EFL Cup. He got criticised for getting knocked out early in the cup and since then we only won 1 league game in the last 7 league games. That early knocked out actually built a bigger pressure that he must win the league since he dares to sacrifice the EFL Cup which affect him and the whole team vs Aston Villa (Just look at Bruno's shocking penalty). On top of that, he couldn't get a result vs Everton and people questioned his decision for dropping Ronaldo, that turned into questionable decision which built even bigger pressure. Mistakes after mistakes from the manager's decision, the pressure got bigger and that's what happened.

Although, Maguire and Shaw poor form also played big part in the team's form. Since they and the manager made mistakes constantly that cost the team's result, it affects the whole team and turned disaster especially post the Leicester city game.

Not saying Ole used to be tactical genius last season, I think his tactic is also part of the issue but his man management and tactic still got us to 2nd place last season but this season the pressure and expectation just too big for him to handle, it got bigger and bigger each week, and he didn't know how to handle them.

 

[HegdeCore]

He wasn't good enough. Lucked his way into the job with good vibes but ultimately the players didn't respect him.
Should have been fired long ago

 

[BrilliantOrange]

What went wrong is quite plain for me... He tactically inapt and not up there to get the best out of a group of players. In a competitive Champions League and Premier League that means you are going to lose/draw games even if you have the better players.

Thats what happened.. Nothing more, nothing less..

 

[reddyornot]

When we played Manchester City only 4 of the starters were bought by Ole.
Could have played Donnie, Telles, Sancho, Henderson that brings it up to 8.
Would they have been any worse?.
Still relying on rubbish bought by other managers.

 

[pebbles8]

Easy answer he was utterly clueless and showed absolutely zero emotion or the ability to inspire anyone