We had few joys in attack and less joys in defense.
What was the single biggest factor in the defeat to Everton.
- Thread starter moses
- Start date
Felllani.
I think it may have been a piece of genius by David Moyes.
Last year in the 4-4, Fellaini bullied Carrick off the park in midfield. Dunno when Moyes would have found out our lineup, but I bet when he saw Carrick at CB he told Fellaini to do the same thing as last time, just higher up the pitch, in more threatening positions.
And that is exactly what he did.
Last year in the 4-4, Fellaini bullied Carrick off the park in midfield. Dunno when Moyes would have found out our lineup, but I bet when he saw Carrick at CB he told Fellaini to do the same thing as last time, just higher up the pitch, in more threatening positions.
And that is exactly what he did.
Our midfield not being able to contain a high energy oposition midfield like last season.
Our most important attacking players were awful which lead to a breakdown in fluency in a lot of our attacks and this was magnified when Everton got the lead as they shut up shop taking away the best option of the low cross across the box and with their aerial dominance and bus parking we had few options to score.
That was purely because of Fellaini though. He got the ball and allowed their midfielders to run off him. His abilities meant Everton would find it easier to run off our CMs and overload. Without him, I find it hard to imagine Osman and Gibson overpowering us.
Shrek
I would like to blame Rio....for being injured!!
I'm being serious.
I'm being serious.
To me it's obvious and two factors: Our inability to pass is small spaces and our central midfielders' inability to dribble.
We played a bastardized form of a 4-3-3 yesterday, like many teams, we are trying to emulate Barca's style. However, Barca's style works because A. they can pass in spaces less than a yard apart and their central midfielders/players can dribble.
We are still a long ball team. Scholes, maybe due to age, relies heavily on long balls. Luckily for us, he makes them count. But his age limits his close passing game because he doesn't have the agility to do pass and run, pass and run.
Cleverly and Anderson both played that part well in the beginning of last season, but for whatever reason, weren't doing it this game.
Kagawa for me was the only one making runs, playing quick/tight balls in small spaces, and dribbling into space. The rest would get the ball and lunge it up or pass off to the sides. When a team parks the bus, getting the ball out wide is exactly what they want. We aren't dangerous out wide. We don't have the presence in the box against a defense like Everton's or Stoke's or any of the bruising teams.
Messi is so great because even in extremely tight spaces, he has a run at players which causes defenders to come to him and opens up a yard of space to play a simple outside of the boot to the guy standing next to him who then does a one touch pass back to him. Our players refuse to have a go at players when there isn't fifty yards of space in front of them.
What we need is close control, rapid passing and movement. Van Persie didn't have any impact because we refused to play through the middle and refused to play through the players. It was out wide then back into the middle, but quickly passed out wide then a cross. Then defend. It was tiresome.
For all the laughs we give Arsenal, at least their central midfield knows how to make runs offensively and can dribble.
PS: Sorry but I refuse the one sentence lark. To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts. No use in a thread without conversation
We played a bastardized form of a 4-3-3 yesterday, like many teams, we are trying to emulate Barca's style. However, Barca's style works because A. they can pass in spaces less than a yard apart and their central midfielders/players can dribble.
We are still a long ball team. Scholes, maybe due to age, relies heavily on long balls. Luckily for us, he makes them count. But his age limits his close passing game because he doesn't have the agility to do pass and run, pass and run.
Cleverly and Anderson both played that part well in the beginning of last season, but for whatever reason, weren't doing it this game.
Kagawa for me was the only one making runs, playing quick/tight balls in small spaces, and dribbling into space. The rest would get the ball and lunge it up or pass off to the sides. When a team parks the bus, getting the ball out wide is exactly what they want. We aren't dangerous out wide. We don't have the presence in the box against a defense like Everton's or Stoke's or any of the bruising teams.
Messi is so great because even in extremely tight spaces, he has a run at players which causes defenders to come to him and opens up a yard of space to play a simple outside of the boot to the guy standing next to him who then does a one touch pass back to him. Our players refuse to have a go at players when there isn't fifty yards of space in front of them.
What we need is close control, rapid passing and movement. Van Persie didn't have any impact because we refused to play through the middle and refused to play through the players. It was out wide then back into the middle, but quickly passed out wide then a cross. Then defend. It was tiresome.
For all the laughs we give Arsenal, at least their central midfield knows how to make runs offensively and can dribble.
PS: Sorry but I refuse the one sentence lark. To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts. No use in a thread without conversation
In a sentence, we were all fart and no poo.
Blame it on the boogie.
Ronaldo... How could he leave us
fecking obvious really, we had our best midfielder in defence, a winger at RB, and Evra can't defend for shit.
Had it not been for DDG we would have lost by far more. Fellaini played a blinder, of course. But a full strength defence and Carrick in midfield would certainly have made it much harder for Everton to create as many chances as they did.
15 shots and 8 on target, when you are creating chances so readily, it's only a matter of time before you score.
Had it not been for DDG we would have lost by far more. Fellaini played a blinder, of course. But a full strength defence and Carrick in midfield would certainly have made it much harder for Everton to create as many chances as they did.
15 shots and 8 on target, when you are creating chances so readily, it's only a matter of time before you score.
To me it's obvious and two factors: Our inability to pass is small spaces and our central midfielders' inability to dribble.
We played a bastardized form of a 4-3-3 yesterday, like many teams, we are trying to emulate Barca's style. However, Barca's style works because A. they can pass in spaces less than a yard apart and their central midfielders/players can dribble.
We are still a long ball team. Scholes, maybe due to age, relies heavily on long balls. Luckily for us, he makes them count. But his age limits his close passing game because he doesn't have the agility to do pass and run, pass and run.
Cleverly and Anderson both played that part well in the beginning of last season, but for whatever reason, weren't doing it this game.
Kagawa for me was the only one making runs, playing quick/tight balls in small spaces, and dribbling into space. The rest would get the ball and lunge it up or pass off to the sides. When a team parks the bus, getting the ball out wide is exactly what they want. We aren't dangerous out wide. We don't have the presence in the box against a defense like Everton's or Stoke's or any of the bruising teams.
Messi is so great because even in extremely tight spaces, he has a run at players which causes defenders to come to him and opens up a yard of space to play a simple outside of the boot to the guy standing next to him who then does a one touch pass back to him. Our players refuse to have a go at players when there isn't fifty yards of space in front of them.
What we need is close control, rapid passing and movement. Van Persie didn't have any impact because we refused to play through the middle and refused to play through the players. It was out wide then back into the middle, but quickly passed out wide then a cross. Then defend. It was tiresome.
For all the laughs we give Arsenal, at least their central midfield knows how to make runs offensively and can dribble.
PS: Sorry but I refuse the one sentence lark. To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts. No use in a thread without conversation
Maybe you should just have gone into the Post Match Thread then?
retarded medical team.
To me it's obvious and two factors: Our inability to pass is small spaces and our central midfielders' inability to dribble.
We played a bastardized form of a 4-3-3 yesterday, like many teams, we are trying to emulate Barca's style. However, Barca's style works because A. they can pass in spaces less than a yard apart and their central midfielders/players can dribble.
We are still a long ball team. Scholes, maybe due to age, relies heavily on long balls. Luckily for us, he makes them count. But his age limits his close passing game because he doesn't have the agility to do pass and run, pass and run.
Cleverly and Anderson both played that part well in the beginning of last season, but for whatever reason, weren't doing it this game.
Kagawa for me was the only one making runs, playing quick/tight balls in small spaces, and dribbling into space. The rest would get the ball and lunge it up or pass off to the sides. When a team parks the bus, getting the ball out wide is exactly what they want. We aren't dangerous out wide. We don't have the presence in the box against a defense like Everton's or Stoke's or any of the bruising teams.
Messi is so great because even in extremely tight spaces, he has a run at players which causes defenders to come to him and opens up a yard of space to play a simple outside of the boot to the guy standing next to him who then does a one touch pass back to him. Our players refuse to have a go at players when there isn't fifty yards of space in front of them.
What we need is close control, rapid passing and movement. Van Persie didn't have any impact because we refused to play through the middle and refused to play through the players. It was out wide then back into the middle, but quickly passed out wide then a cross. Then defend. It was tiresome.
For all the laughs we give Arsenal, at least their central midfield knows how to make runs offensively and can dribble.
PS: Sorry but I refuse the one sentence lark. To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts. No use in a thread without conversation
We don't laugh at Arsenal because they can't play, we laugh at them because they don't win any fecking trophies.
No Messi
No Dave Brailsford
What a complete and utter load of bollocks, pretty much everything you wrote is utter bollocks.
To me it's obvious and two factors: Our inability to pass is small spaces and our central midfielders' inability to dribble.
We played a bastardized form of a 4-3-3 yesterday, like many teams, we are trying to emulate Barca's style. However, Barca's style works because A. they can pass in spaces less than a yard apart and their central midfielders/players can dribble.
We are still a long ball team. Scholes, maybe due to age, relies heavily on long balls. Luckily for us, he makes them count. But his age limits his close passing game because he doesn't have the agility to do pass and run, pass and run.
Cleverly and Anderson both played that part well in the beginning of last season, but for whatever reason, weren't doing it this game.
Kagawa for me was the only one making runs, playing quick/tight balls in small spaces, and dribbling into space. The rest would get the ball and lunge it up or pass off to the sides. When a team parks the bus, getting the ball out wide is exactly what they want. We aren't dangerous out wide. We don't have the presence in the box against a defense like Everton's or Stoke's or any of the bruising teams.
Messi is so great because even in extremely tight spaces, he has a run at players which causes defenders to come to him and opens up a yard of space to play a simple outside of the boot to the guy standing next to him who then does a one touch pass back to him. Our players refuse to have a go at players when there isn't fifty yards of space in front of them.
What we need is close control, rapid passing and movement. Van Persie didn't have any impact because we refused to play through the middle and refused to play through the players. It was out wide then back into the middle, but quickly passed out wide then a cross. Then defend. It was tiresome.
For all the laughs we give Arsenal, at least their central midfield knows how to make runs offensively and can dribble.
PS: Sorry but I refuse the one sentence lark. To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts. No use in a thread without conversation
The lack of balance.
Have to go with having four centrebacks out.
However, I think Fergie's changes were piss poor. Sure, we were controlling possession, but every change was a like-for-like one. Van Persie for Welbeck, Young for Nani, Anderson for Cleverley... No change of shape, no new ideas, Everton never had to change what they were doing. If it wasn't working for an hour, it wasn't going to work for another 30 minutes. We needed to do something different.
Oh, and none of this is to be bitter. Everton were simply better than us all round except for possession, and Fellaini was a monster. We can all agree it was a deserved defeat.
However, I think Fergie's changes were piss poor. Sure, we were controlling possession, but every change was a like-for-like one. Van Persie for Welbeck, Young for Nani, Anderson for Cleverley... No change of shape, no new ideas, Everton never had to change what they were doing. If it wasn't working for an hour, it wasn't going to work for another 30 minutes. We needed to do something different.
Oh, and none of this is to be bitter. Everton were simply better than us all round except for possession, and Fellaini was a monster. We can all agree it was a deserved defeat.
Inability to deal with Fellaini and adequately contest the second ball, possibly due to most of our centre backs being injured.
I blame Kevin Piertersen.
Jamie and co. are probably talking about how it was all De Gea's fault.
Front 3 of Rooney, Welbeck and Nani were no threat.
I honestly didn't think Everton were that great. Spent a lot of time under the pump hoofing it to Fellaini. Defensively yeah. But only really because they had everyone back under our pressure.
"Michael Carrick going to sleep crucially on a set-piece."
"Michael Carrick going to sleep crucially on a set-piece."
Yep those derogatory texts about Strauss and flower must really have knocked our lads for six.(see what i did there)
The defence was particularly badly affected, some of them weren't even in any fit state to be considered for the squad. Smalling took it particularly badly he won't be back for a couple of months!
I liked this bit personally:
'To have a conversation you must back up your thoughts'
WTF? first off i want to know how the feck did he save his thoughts to disk?
and why did he have to save them before having a conversation anyway?
I call complete and utter bollocks!
United need someone to stand up and be the captain.
Lack of holding midfield cover
Lack of creativity.
Why are so many people talking about our inability to deal with them defensively when we had only 3 decent chances to score? The Rooney header, Welbeck put through by Kagawa and Cleverley's shot that was cleared off the line.
They had more chances. They hit the woodwork twice. To be fair, 1-0 was probably a bit flattering to us!
Playing on a monday evening instead of good old fashioned Saturday 3pm.
In fairness, we engineered a number of good positions, being thwarted by numerous last ditch tackles.
Overall, Everton had more chances though.
He didn't go to sleep. That suggests a dereliction of duty. He simply failed to cope with Fellaini's physicality, which is understandable.
Agree with the premise though. We essentially lost because of Carrick's inability to cope on that corner.
Not saying it was the main reason in this particular game, but we've lacked influence and leadership for a while now. Still hopeful that Jones is the answer to that, but he'll take at least 2 more seasons of developing and growing in stature to take up that mantle.
As with other burdens, I don't think it'd bring the best out in Rooney. When he tries to hard he underwhelms.
You don't think Vidic is a good captain? I think he's brilliant in the leadership role. He clearly organises the back line, while his style and stature gives the classic 'leading by example' effect.