What is the solution to the problem of a flagging midfield losing control of the game in 2nd halves?

He cant play high intensity for 90 minutes but is brilliant for the most part in the 60 minutes, we need to be looking at similar players to carry the can for him, (Erikson)
 
M Bison said:
I dont agree that its an age issue, Casemiro and Eriksen are in their prime of a modern footballer, but they need support and options. I think it starts with our forward players, we had very little in the final 3rd to hit and/or hold it up and allow us to get up the pitch which then puts more pressure on the midfield.
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Age is ALWAYS an issue, whether from playing 50 games a season perspective, or from injury/fatigue recovery perspective, particular for midfield who is expected to cover 10km per game. Relying on Eriksen and Casemiro alone won't win you matches (every time) as you need team effort, but right now we don't have too many rotation options apart from fullbacks and 2 MFs, and only 1 striker can score regularly.
 
hobbers said:
The midfield flags because we constantly overplay and lose the ball in stupid places rather than recycle possession. Which means Eriksen/Fred and Casemiro have to spend more time chasing after the play, more time closing down, more time on their heels. And we know who the main culprit for that is.

Taking Bruno off whenever we're trying to see out a lead against tough sides/difficult away matches should be one of the most obvious things to do, but no manager has yet figured it out.
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Be interesting to see us try to see out a game like this:

Fred----Iqbal
----Casemiro

and just hope that enough mobility in the midfield can keep pressure off of us like we often do in first halves, just lose threat in behind, but we can recycle possession and get it out wide more often.

I also think using Antony as a RW with 30 to go when he's fresh and can just get open and keep the ball would help, but then someone needs to start for an hour, either Rashford on the right if Garnacho can force himself into the team on the left, or Sancho coming back.

Could also try:

Fred--Sancho
----Casemiro---

to close things out.

And as you can see by me having no solution at DM behind Casemiro when he gets tired, I think the best alternative answer there is Lisandro at DM and Shaw at LCB.
 
Not that I think we'll have control of the midfield tomorrow, but if we're in the game going into the second half tomorrow, it'll be interesting to see what the contingencies will be.

Assuming he starts, theoretically, Eriksen will tank even earlier due to even more running and two-way contests from the outset.
 
I think we got a bit giddy thinking we had an outside chance of winning the league. Add to that the queen and the WC forcing us to play every 3 days is exhausting the senior players.
Top 4 in his first season will be a good season to start for TH. I hope in the summer he can bring in a younger version or similar to Casemiro and similar with Eriksen. Then Eriksen and Casemiro can play different halves if we have more than one game a week.
 
Palace was the first time we led and didn’t win the game and it took a ridiculous free kick to do so.
There’s no point in reading too much into it
 
cyberman said:
Palace was the first time we led and didn’t win the game and it took a ridiculous free kick to do so.
There’s no point in reading too much into it
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Yeah one where they used Villa tactics which even 3 days on really annoys me
 
Bruno is an issue, he has great stats with assists and goals but he turns over possession too much and forces the play when it's not needed
 
Lee565 said:
Bruno is an issue, he has great stats with assists and goals but he turns over possession too much and forces the play when it's not needed
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Yeah that is very true but rare he gets subbed
 
I think it's a fairly simple case of having only 2 midfielders good enough to control a game and having about 60 games to fit them into. Even if they were both 5 years younger it doesn't really add up as they will get tired and one or both will probably miss games through injury. Add to that Ten Hag generally just won't start people he doesn't think can do the job he wants them to, unless there's no choice.

Past seasons we wouldn't control the midfield for any of the game unless the opposition didn't contest the ball there. Another signing would sort it out. Either in midfield or a forward who helps kill off games while we're on top. When half the season is gone and the combined tally of goals from your main strikers is about 7, despite the team overall performing to a high standard, that obviously contributes to the issue
 
All season United have lacked that ability to kill games off by slowing the pace down and playing boring for a few minutes.

It's still very much a basketball game possession wise, which is fun to watch, but it is very draining on the players, especially when they are playing every 3 days.

I think leaning when to change gears/tempo during matches would be more beneficial than simply adding more players to the squad.
 
It's basically because casemiro and eriksen are ageing they will find it hard to keep up the pace for the full 90 and we lack the quality in depth.

Fred coming on as a sub I think is good cause he full of energy and versus a tiring side looks decent but mctominay is garbage. Maybe try lindelof in midfield or martinez on days were shaw has partnered varane.
 
M Bison said:
I dont agree that its an age issue, Casemiro and Eriksen are in their prime of a modern footballer, but they need support and options. I think it starts with our forward players, we had very little in the final 3rd to hit and/or hold it up and allow us to get up the pitch which then puts more pressure on the midfield.
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Our forward line is more press resistant than our midfield. I don't think you can really put this particular build up problem on the forwards. The midfield scores an A in playmaking but their lack of press resistance or general possession compliance is their own. If anything our forwards suffer from having less ball carrying support behind them. Against City it was noticeable in the first half just how much they relied on the forwards to bail them out of pressure. It would also just generally be nice to get a midfielder a little more comfortable against the press, maybe one who can commit a couple more bodies or maybe one who can slow down plays when needed.

That way the response to pressure isn't always to go vertical.
 
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Stop playing a midfielder with zero engine like Eriksen for more than 45 minutes, especially away from Old Trafford.
 
The way we’re dropping out of games is grating because the goals against are coming so late and are because of fatigue in midfield. It’s the hope that kills.
 
The solution is to not play a game every three days with a squad that barely goes past the first XI. Arsenal had a week to prepare for this.
 
3 points dropped in the last minute of the last 2 games. Pattern emerging.
 
Perhaps by not being so negative and trying to hold on to what we have with twenty minutes left.

There's a reason we are conceding late goals, we are just too negative with so much time left in games
 
lsd said:
Perhaps by not being so negative and trying to hold on to what we have with twenty minutes left.

There's a reason we are conceding late goals, we are just too negative with so much time left in games
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Do we do concede late goals? I can think of two and we’re almost in February
 
2 top quality central midfielders should be added with McTominay being sold.
 
cyberman said:
Do we do concede late goals? I can think of two and we’re almost in February
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If we keep playing the same midfield, do you expect us to concede no more late goals?

The manager is so reluctant to take off the key midfield players, so then they stay on the pitch on fumes, making us really easy to run through. Late goals will become more inevitable as said midfielders tire throughout the remainder of the season, or not?
 
lsd said:
That's five points in a week
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Ones a freak freekick in game we should have had a pen in minutes before and the other is away to the side on course for 100 points.
I wouldnt say it’s a massive problem.
 
Fortitude said:
If we keep playing the same midfield, do you expect us to concede no more late goals?

The manager is so reluctant to take off the key midfield players, so then they stay on the pitch on fumes, making us really easy to run through. Late goals will become more inevitable as said midfielders tire throughout the remainder of the season, or not?
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Who do we bring on today? Give Scholes a call?
If anything changing the midfield and not playing Fred was the mistake.
Your point doesnt even make sense, only one midfielder today started v City which was just a week ago.
I’m as disappointed as anybody here but a lot of these posts are reactionary nonsense.
 
cyberman said:
Ones a freak freekick in game we should have had a pen in minutes before and the other is away to the side on course for 100 points.
I wouldnt say it’s a massive problem.
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It's five points. That's a problem anyway I've had enough for now. The guy has done a great job up to this week but the past two games have been an absolute horror show from him
 
There's no options on the bench for the midfield. Managers hand are tied in all honesty, players that have failed consecutively under various managers are still employed. It's going to take a few windows to sort the midfield out.
 
Selling the club to people with money and buying some more players who aren’t as shite as the likes of Wan-Bissaka and McTominay.

It really is as simple as that.
 
Our summer business needs to be:
1. Big money for a striker.
2. Medium - big money for a no.8 to replace Eriksen.
3. Cheap, young DM with potential as cover for Cas.
 
cyberman said:
Who do we bring on today? Give Scholes a call?
If anything changing the midfield and not playing Fred was the mistake.
Your point doesnt even make sense, only one midfielder today started v City which was just a week ago.
I’m as disappointed as anybody here but a lot of these posts are reactionary nonsense.
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How can it be reactionary when every single time the same things are happening and can be called well before they happen in real time, or before the game even goes to the 2nd half?

Eriksen started both games (Palace and today) as did Bruno.

And, the whole point of the thread is what are the counter measures to this issue in the here and now, not via personnel bought in.
 
Fortitude said:
How can it be reactionary when every single time the same things are happening and can be called well before they happen in real time, or before the game even goes to the 2nd half?

Eriksen started both games as did Bruno.

And, the whole point of the thread is what are the counter measures to this issue in the here and now, not via personnel bought in.
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What’s every single time?
You mean every time (before Palace) when we took the lead we won? Those every times?
We knew it would be tough without Casemiro and it proved to be, it’s just down to shit timing so we can overreact now and pretend we’re hanging on in every single game when that isn’t the case.
It’s ok to sometimes say the best team won. Fans pretend they’re prepared for a bad little run until it happens then they throw the baby out with the bath water
 
lsd said:
It's five points. That's a problem anyway I've had enough for now. The guy has done a great job up to this week but the past two games have been an absolute horror show from him
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This.

How he's handled the team management the last 1 week has been shambolic.

He was too stubborn to make changes in Palace game and even today, I hope he learns as quickly as possible.

This is not Dutch league were you can autopilot games, you need plans.

The team today looked absolutely shattered, because of the palace game.
 
cyberman said:
What’s every single time?
You mean every time (before Palace) when we took the lead we won? Those every times?
We knew it would be tough without Casemiro and it proved to be, it’s just down to shit timing so we can overreact now and pretend we’re hanging on in every single game when that isn’t the case.
It’s ok to sometimes say the best team won. Fans pretend they’re prepared for a bad little run until it happens then they throw the baby out with the bath water
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No once the games stack and the team collectively tires as teams that are overplayed do. Then it becomes an issue; then it exacerbates as the accumulative fatigue builds.

And you’re literally writing your own narrative and straw man to fight against by ignoring the point made from OP straight through to the replies. It’s a clear issue, it can’t be reactionary when spoken of in future tense, as it always was, or, as I ask again, do you think this won’t happen again and again if we keep playing the same players in the manner we’re doing?
 
cyberman said:
What’s every single time?
You mean every time (before Palace) when we took the lead we won? Those every times?
We knew it would be tough without Casemiro and it proved to be, it’s just down to shit timing so we can overreact now and pretend we’re hanging on in every single game when that isn’t the case.
It’s ok to sometimes say the best team won. Fans pretend they’re prepared for a bad little run until it happens then they throw the baby out with the bath water
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I think you're pretty on the money really. I'm seeing a lot of people crying for Garnacho to have been brought on earlier but our primary problems in this match were by and large not something I could see being solved by anybody we had on the bench, bar Fred who I do think should have started the match.

I was absolutely furious with the dropped points at the end of the game but losing a very tight game away to the best side in the country is hardly a catastrophe.
 
I just hope our scouts are looking, because we need some quality in numbers. Ericksen Casimero, Rashford will get tired... we need to be able to rest, rotate players. City have four, maybe five top midfielders. That's why they are so consistent. It will take time, but we have to upgrade.

And not neccesarily spend £100m+ every time, because there are good players out there. We need to identify and nurture.
 
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