What is our problem ?

This time it's the manager.

Folk get confused....when people blamed the manager(s) because we weren't winning the title (Jose, OGS) I defended them to the hilt, because winning the title isn't possible versus this City team with the well-publicised issues we had.

When we're consistently getting absolutely ran over by the likes of Fulham and Brentford and you're floundering in 6th place without a style or an idea...then you can blame the manager!
 
Hammondo said:
Hes never been a technical player, never been a part of his game, hes always been physical.
Click to expand...
By technical I'm not saying he's Bernardo, but that he's the right type of player for a big tr that he has the right qualities to a high enough level. He has enough talent both technically and physically to he a quality inside forward, and that's why he's had a few seasons where he's shown that.
 
bosnian_red said:
IMO the list of players who are good enough all round the play for big European sides are:
  • Onana
  • Dalot
  • Wan Bissaka as a squad player is good
  • Shaw (when fit, unfortunately so needs replacing)
  • Malacia as a backup is fine but can't stay fit
  • Martinez (bad luck on his injury, but also we don't play a higher line with him in anyway)
  • Varane is still a good CB. But always injured so has to go
  • Lindelof as a backup RCB is fine
  • Casemiro is older and looks past it now, but I'm hesitant to say he went from being a world class CB to completely done in a year, you can make a system that asks him to cover less space (and I think our job in midfield is a hopeless task for anyone and more on coaching)
  • Mainoo
  • Mount (albeit pointless in our team given his position)
  • Bruno
  • Rashford (honestly think his issue is more pressure of being the guy at United rather than just being himself elsewhere, he needs a move I'd say)
  • Garnacho
  • Hojlund
There's a very solid list of players who could play at a high level or be signed up by a top team, or have a role as a squad player at least. They should be coached better. But of course, there's a lot of work that has to also go in our squad even among the group above (namely replace the 30+ year olds who can't stay fit like case/Varane/Maguire/Shaw). But that doesn't excuse our performances this season on a weekly basis.
Click to expand...
That’s not the question I asked.

But also look at how many qualifiers you have to add to our squad. It’s an “oh but he’ll do” rather than “this player is well suited to high pressing transition football”.

How many of those players are unquestionable the guy we need?
Hammondo said:
Mount is not really stand out technically. I would argue Rashford is physical, he's just too dumb to use it. Varane is physical, AWB is physical.
Click to expand...
I’d disagree I think he’s got the half turn skill needed to receive between the lines and connect play. But if we take him out that only strengthens my argument.

Rashford we could add for pace but how often does he win his duels? Very rarely now. He can’t duel modern CBs with pace.

Varane hasn’t got the physical profile we need. He’s injured too often. He cannot cope with regular high level transition football so he’s not the right profile.

AWB maybe physical. But he too has been picking up a lot of injuries leaving him out for the majority of the season. If his major strength is the physical side is this not a significant concern?
bosnian_red said:
Garnacho for both as a winger, hojlund under technical too as CF, mctominay physical, Wan Bissaka as physical, mount under physical (if he could stay fit, so probably remove Shaw and him...), Rashford under technical and physical when he can be arsed (mental things with him though so doesn't help us much).

Bruno is a top player who both stays fit and runs all day and while yes you need an upgrade (mainly in being press resistant and being able to carry the ball) if you want to challenge with Arsenal and city, doesn't stop us from being a very good team and is very important in that step.

Generally though, it's not that helpful to just list out players. There are enough of them to make a functional side that is a steady top 4 side. He has to coach them.
Click to expand...
I love Garnacho but he’s not quite there yet. I hope he will.

Højlund id be happy enough to add to technical.

McTominay what physical profile does he fit in a high pressing transition side?

Mount debatable but let’s say I accept it.

Rashford nope. We can’t be having caveat players here Im asking who confidently has it. Not who is hit or miss.

Bruno can’t receive on the half turn effectively or dribble so fails on technical. Physical he can run and doesn’t get injured but can’t protect the ball and shield it which modern players in a transition side should be able to do.

It’s absolutely helpful because look at how many players you’re confident on being good enough? Look how many you have to make excuses for.

Now look at City, Arsenal and Liverpool. Who are you making excuses for?


bosnian_red said:
You missed the when he's arsed... As a wide forward, the Rashford that exists and we saw last season and most of the time between 2019-2021 is definitely good enough all around. I genuinely think he can't handle the pressure at United though, it's tougher being a home grown player with the expectation and I think he doesn't deal with it well. I think he'd do brilliantly in la Liga/Bundesliga/Ligue 1/serie A if he were to leave United and just needs a change of scenery. But again, that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right qualities to be a top player, just other issues exist.
Click to expand...
See above.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
That’s not the question I asked.

But also look at how many qualifiers you have to add to our squad. It’s an “oh but he’ll do” rather than “this player is well suited to high pressing transition football”.

How many of those players are unquestionable the guy we need?

I’d disagree I think he’s got the half turn skill needed to receive between the lines and connect play. But if we take him out that only strengthens my argument.

Rashford we could add for pace but how often does he win his duels? Very rarely now. He can’t duel modern CBs with pace.

Varane hasn’t got the physical profile we need. He’s injured too often. He cannot cope with regular high level transition football so he’s not the right profile.

AWB maybe physical. But he too has been picking up a lot of injuries leaving him out for the majority of the season. If his major strength is the physical side is this not a significant concern?

I love Garnacho but he’s not quite there yet. I hope he will.

Højlund id be happy enough to add to technical.

McTominay what physical profile does he fit in a high pressing transition side?

Mount debatable but let’s say I accept it.

Rashford nope. We can’t be having caveat players here Im asking who confidently has it. Not who is hit or miss.

Bruno can’t receive on the half turn effectively or dribble so fails on technical. Physical he can run and doesn’t get injured but can’t protect the ball and shield it which modern players in a transition side should be able to do.

It’s absolutely helpful because look at how many players you’re confident on being good enough? Look how many you have to make excuses for.

Now look at City, Arsenal and Liverpool. Who are you making excuses for?



See above.
Click to expand...
Put it this way, I'm not excusing ten hags system having us performing like a midtable side, get dominated by relegation fodder (more than once) on the basis of us not having a squad to challenge for the title. Our squad is good enough to be a serious top 4 challengers, both in real results and in underlying stats (as in to do so without grinding out every game). Before I complain about our squad not being city or Arsenal or Liverpool level, I'm going to complain about the manager not getting anywhere near the right level out of what he does have. He doesn't get a free pass until we have a world class squad. He has to get the squad performing to their level to prove he deserves to be the guy to stay here.

That's why the convo you are pushing is pointless. In your scenario, nobody can be fairly judged until you have a 100m player in every position. That's not the real world.
 
Acquire Me said:
I listen to a podcast from two United supporters/journalists who sat a few feet away from Erik ten Hag vs Liverpool. They said he coached them perfect time after time, but most of the players either are not able to execute or not remotely good enough to make the right moves.

It’s all to easy to lay all the blame on EtH.
Click to expand...
How would they know what is "perfect coaching" ?
 
bosnian_red said:
Put it this way, I'm not excusing ten hags system having us performing like a midtable side, get dominated by relegation fodder (more than once) on the basis of us not having a squad to challenge for the title. Our squad is good enough to be a serious top 4 challengers, both in real results and in underlying stats (as in to do so without grinding out every game). Before I complain about our squad not being city or Arsenal or Liverpool level, I'm going to complain about the manager not getting anywhere near the right level out of what he does have. He doesn't get a free pass until we have a world class squad. He has to get the squad performing to their level to prove he deserves to be the guy to stay here.

That's why the convo you are pushing is pointless. In your scenario, nobody can be fairly judged until you have a 100m player in every position. That's not the real world.
Click to expand...
Ok so then let’s go back to the idea of who does the profile of player we need to play the kind of football we want to play?

Not who will do but who is a high pressing transition footballer?

Every player in City’s XI and squad fits their profile. Every one in Arsenal’s and Liverpools does too.

I have never and will never have such a shit take as the bolded. It’s the laziest and most contemptible argument that anyone can make right now.

Onana ~ £40m
Yoro/Todibo/Diomande ~£40m

None of which would cost £100m would fit the profile we want.

Does Lindelof? Does McTominay? Does Maguire and Evans?

Please don’t straw man and make this a silly discussion. There are affordable options better suited to the long term type of football we’d like to play.
 
Alex Ferguson & his buddies the Glazers need to be gone out of the club before any progress is to be made. The club is now a joke shop for 11 or so years now. On the pitch we need 7 quality players to come in and we need a manager with a better coaching set-up behind him.
 
Players. Players are our problem. Many of them not good enough, almost all of them inconsistent, fairly large number injury-prone, and too many of them incapable of playing the style that can be competitive in modern EPL.

For example, Rashford is incosistent AF, Bruno doesn't fit high-line, counter-pressing, dont-lose-the-ball-every-second style, Casemiro and Licha missed almost entire season. Many more other examples, but bottomline - Mainoo and Hojlund are the only two players 100% worth keeping. Garnacho gets a pass because he is young, but if he doesn't start assisting Hojlund, I am not sure about him either.
 
a- ETH plays a high intensity football which require players to be hard working, unselfish and very fit. Which explains why we've got so many injuries and players whose causing a fuss
b- The defense is a mix of players suited for the low block and players suited for a high block. If we play a high block then the likes of Martinez, Dalot and Onana will do well while the rest would probably struggle. If we revert to a low block then those players would probably struggle and the likes of Evans, Maguire, AWB and co will do better
c1- ETH had resigned himself to play a low block defense but is still expecting his CM to play very high the pitch. That puts immense weight on Casemiro, which quite frankly, he can't carry
c2- Our flank men think that they are frigging Cristiano Ronaldo. They don't backtrack, they don't cross the ball, they don't help in the build up and given the opportunity they'll shoot

C- is leading to the iconic gap the size of the Grand Canyon which many pundits had highlighted.

If I was ETH then

a- I'd play in a mid block with Maguire, Varane, AWB and Dalot in defence.
b- Martinez should slide as a sort of anchor man were he will close the gap between CM and defense, he'll be aided by Mainoo/Casemiro at the base of 4-2-3-1 midfield
c- Bruno plays like a no 10 were he's told to stick to that role and never backtrack, Garnacho plays on the left and Mount should play on the right. Mount brings energy and a level of work rate that our wingers lack.
d- Rasmus plays upfront.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Ok so then let’s go back to the idea of who does the profile of player we need to play the kind of football we want to play?

Not who will do but who is a high pressing transition footballer?

Every player in City’s XI and squad fits their profile. Every one in Arsenal’s and Liverpools does too.

I have never and will never have such a shit take as the bolded. It’s the laziest and most contemptible argument that anyone can make right now.

Onana ~ £40m
Yoro/Todibo/Diomande ~£40m

None of which would cost £100m would fit the profile we want.

Does Lindelof? Does McTominay? Does Maguire and Evans?

Please don’t straw man and make this a silly discussion. There are affordable options better suited to the long term type of football we’d like to play.
Click to expand...
What football does ten hag want to play? There's 0 evidence he ever wants his back line to step up. Who is suited to actually be a midfielder in his system and make it work? It doesn't exist. The problem is more coaching for what he's implementing.

In an ideal world where you imagine he wants to build a Klopp type system and is actually capable of implementing it, then yeah you can go into the discussion of who suits that. But to get to that point, like I said, you have to earn it first. You don't just get a pass until the whole squad suits him. There's enough there to show his coaching talents deserve the chance. As it is, he doesn't deserve the chance. I don't need to get into a player by player discussion when I fundamentally don't think he is capable of coaching us to that level (because of countless reasons) and think he had to prove he deserves the role first. You only get the chance to build a squad properly if you actually earn it over time. It's not gifted. Ten Hag has failed to coach what he has, therefore isn't the right guy to move forward with. Because there is absolutely o evidence out there to say he'll be capable of doing something with a squad full of players that suit him. I'd rather give that chance to somebody else.
 
kouroux said:
How would they know what is "perfect coaching" ?
Click to expand...

He instructed things who made sense in context to the match they watched. So no it’s not based on professional football managers.

The point either way was that they fail to execute what he wants them to do or are not capable.

Make of that what you want, but my point from the start was that I think it’s to easy to blame EtH as the one and only reason for us not being good.
 
Several problems, but in terms of getting our current style of counter attacking football working then this is the problem

The connection from midfield to attack is poor

How often our DMs/CMs release our forward players in good positions leading to a shot

823e9c6208a9884fb245729fee22d7a9.png


McTominay's performances in midfield are a fascade. He doesn't do anything.

Casemiro is our only DM/CM that sets off our counter attacks and is a good enough ball winner and defensive minded player to actually play in our DM roles. Eriksen and Mount arent good enough defensively to play in the DM roles without making us vulnerable. Amrabat has just been too poor in general. Mainoo is in the team because he's performing better than most of the others, but releasing the attacking players quickly and often is not something he's doing.

Arsenal's CMs/DMs
dac65a60381c0fe76254ce76964d2da8.png

Liverpool's CM/DMs
0d80e9adfb6d9920e15e426660972282.png

The top sides are able to get going with their attacks from their deeper players making passes more often. Or we put Eriksen in there and have a player who doesn't defend well enough but he can play a ball over the top or a longer pass to help set us going.

The other part of it is both teams have 3 in midfield. Bruno is playing as a supporting attacker for us. So like against Brentford our midfield can easily be outnumbered 3 to 2 and if McTominay is 1 of our 2 it feels like 3 vs 1.25. Bruno can drop in and has some games where he has some good ball winning stats but he usually leaves the deep areas to our 2 DMs
 
I've been on this hill for many years now and it won't change. Rashford is a problem. We've had several managers with several play styles and he's always been exactly the same. There's no change.

He's lazy off the ball, team mates don't know if he's continuing the press or if he's going to follow the full back. He receives the ball and then assesses where everyone is. Good footballers know what to do before they receive the ball, Rashford has to take in the scenery which allows the opposition team to get into positions.

His only real asset is running into space which is why every manager has had the same tactic down the left, counter by having him run and make Bruno go for long. It's what the managers instruct because if they don't then Rashford is useless.

If you bench Rashford you get the media on your back, you get a disrupted dressing room, you get the lot. Also if you bench him there aren't many options really. Before Antony we never really had three wingers and a fit striker at the same time to bench Rashford. Now we've had it sometimes but one of them is Antony who is better than Rashford at some things but overall not more useful.

Add to that we have one striker now and he's an inconsistent youngster who's had fitness problems. The concistency has been shit all season because of these changes. You can point at Brentford and say "well how come they play so well then with injuries?" and the answer is they don't. This was one game and they've mostly been bad but no matter what they've always played well against us. Partly game raising and partly Frank having our number.

Talking the squad as whole, it has a big, big concentration problem. On set pieces we aren't ready. After kick off we aren't ready. Somewhere along the 90 minutes we'll mess up playing out of defense and be caught off guard and that mentally breaks down the team which it shouldn't. Takes a while each game to recover from that and yesterday was a game the team didn't even recover.

The mentality is by far the biggest problem and that mentality is what makes these players average. We need a squad full of players like Dalot who are unphased by adversity or moments in game. As of now we can maybe field 6 players like that and hope the other 5 are having a decent day.
 
bosnian_red said:
What football does ten hag want to play? There's 0 evidence he ever wants his back line to step up. Who is suited to actually be a midfielder in his system and make it work? It doesn't exist. The problem is more coaching for what he's implementing.

In an ideal world where you imagine he wants to build a Klopp type system and is actually capable of implementing it, then yeah you can go into the discussion of who suits that. But to get to that point, like I said, you have to earn it first. You don't just get a pass until the whole squad suits him. There's enough there to show his coaching talents deserve the chance. As it is, he doesn't deserve the chance. I don't need to get into a player by player discussion when I fundamentally don't think he is capable of coaching us to that level (because of countless reasons) and think he had to prove he deserves the role first. You only get the chance to build a squad properly if you actually earn it over time. It's not gifted. Ten Hag has failed to coach what he has, therefore isn't the right guy to move forward with. Because there is absolutely o evidence out there to say he'll be capable of doing something with a squad full of players that suit him. I'd rather give that chance to somebody else.
Click to expand...
You have to earn the chance. Does top 3 and a cup not give you enough credit?

You don’t want to analyse the squad because I think you know it’s not good enough.

Do you not think the following have been coached by

Onana
Dalot
Martinez
Shaw
Mainoo
Garnacho
Højlund
 
BenitoSTARR said:
You have to earn the chance. Does top 3 and a cup not give you enough credit?

You don’t want to analyse the squad because I think you know it’s not good enough.

Do you not think the following have been coached by

Onana
Dalot
Martinez
Shaw
Mainoo
Garnacho
Højlund
Click to expand...
Managers have to constantly prove themselves. Last season he did well but that doesn't mean you get a free pass to play like shit...

I agree the squad isn't good enough or well put together. I do think it's far better than what we show on a weekly basis. I don't think we should be 11 pts behind villa, I also shouldn't feel like we are lucky to even be where we are, let alone further behind and lower down the table (which is where I'd say we deserve to be based on performances). It's never one or the other. Ten Hag got dealt a shit hand, and he's doing a shit job at playing with it.

Does he deserve to get another chance next season? Hard to say. Personally, I have close to 0 hope that he'll turn it around or that he's capable of coaching us to a high enough level. I think he's incredibly fortunate that the takeover will buy him another season, and especially as all the people who will make the decisions in our structure are on gardening leave, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in making big changes before they can make them. So he might get it anyway. I also think of we win the cup then yeah, fundamentally you shouldn't change managers after that even if all else points the other way, just in the bigger picture/message sort of thing. I expect he'll get next season and be changed in 2025. But I'm not expecting next season to be amazing or anything if he's still here
 
We can’t transition from a counter attacking team into one that controls possession, we don’t have the players to do it, the formation suggests that Ten Hag doesn’t want to play counter attack, so we’re stuck in this weird middle ground formation that manages to get the best out of nobody.
We’ve got square pegs in round holes all over the pitch. And he still has to play the same dross Mourinho wanted shut of.. It’s a complete mess
 
bosnian_red said:
Managers have to constantly prove themselves. Last season he did well but that doesn't mean you get a free pass to play like shit...

I agree the squad isn't good enough or well put together. I do think it's far better than what we show on a weekly basis. I don't think we should be 11 pts behind villa, I also shouldn't feel like we are lucky to even be where we are, let alone further behind and lower down the table (which is where I'd say we deserve to be based on performances). It's never one or the other. Ten Hag got dealt a shit hand, and he's doing a shit job at playing with it.

Does he deserve to get another chance next season? Hard to say. Personally, I have close to 0 hope that he'll turn it around or that he's capable of coaching us to a high enough level. I think he's incredibly fortunate that the takeover will buy him another season, and especially as all the people who will make the decisions in our structure are on gardening leave, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in making big changes before they can make them. So he might get it anyway. I also think of we win the cup then yeah, fundamentally you shouldn't change managers after that even if all else points the other way, just in the bigger picture/message sort of thing. I expect he'll get next season and be changed in 2025. But I'm not expecting next season to be amazing or anything if he's still here
Click to expand...
I really struggle with the bold because I think we’re a top 4 competitor with Spurs but with injuries I don’t believe this is a top 4 team.

Villa have had their best players fit for the vast majority of the season.
 
We leave our midfield and middle of our defence exposed every single game and then also regularly have to rely on players in both areas where a sensible team would want to give them MORE protection, not less

We've also been doing this all season so every single opponent now will have scouted and expect it
 
Krakenzero said:
Maybe defining the problem first, then devising a possible solution, a finally executing that solution without immediately jumping to conclusions?
Click to expand...
We have played far worse than oppositions who have vastly worse players for many many games in a row, with an exception every 6 or 7 games. We have enough information to make a call and not be 'jumping to conclusions'
 
Acquire Me said:
He instructed things who made sense in context to the match they watched. So no it’s not based on professional football managers.

The point either way was that they fail to execute what he wants them to do or are not capable.

Make of that what you want, but my point from the start was that I think it’s to easy to blame EtH as the one and only reason for us not being good.
Click to expand...
Players being unable to execute coaching instructions is, by definition, a coaching problem.
 
Acquire Me said:
He instructed things who made sense in context to the match they watched. So no it’s not based on professional football managers.

The point either way was that they fail to execute what he wants them to do or are not capable.

Make of that what you want, but my point from the start was that I think it’s to easy to blame EtH as the one and only reason for us not being good.
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a single Caftard who has said ETH is the only reason for our struggles
 
The problem isn’t one player as many would like you to believe. We aren’t going to sell Rashford & magically replace him with Antony & become league runners cause he ‘works hard’.

The problems are plentiful but as a sceptic, I’m hopeful Ineos will address this in the coming years.
 
We have a very crap manager and a terribly assembled squad. Individual players are ok, but the squad is far less than the sum of its players. Until we change both, it will continue being crap football.
 
bosnian_red said:
I don't doubt that he has a plan, and I think the players are following this plan. Otherwise we would see actual changes now and then if they weren't following it. His management is basically just saying that eventually something will click and it'll work.

My opinion on it is that his plan is just not as good as the plan of probably about 10 other premier league sides. It's not just coaching us. He has to coach us better than the other premier league managers coach their sides. There's nothing out there to make us believe he is a better manager than half of the others in the league. Loads of managers have won titles at Ajax and failed horribly outside of that league.

I agree that there are a lot of problems, but I also am pretty convinced that our off the ball coaching is just entirely inept. It was a concern with Ten Hags Ajax teams, it got brought up as an unknown before he joined, and it's proven to be the big problem during his time. That's not on anything else but his coaching.
Click to expand...
It doesnt matter who comes in next, all the while we have a hard core of senior players who dont want to play he will struggle to get results.
 
Firstly. There's no way we can be this bad if the players are putting in 100% effort. We're lucky to be top half of the table based on performances, and bottom 3 for numbers of shots conceded.

This is reminiscent of the players downing tools at the end of the reigns of Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick etc. it's impossible for the team to be this bad if they're motivated. A lot of it comes down to closing players down and being aggressive in winning individual duels, sprinting to get goal-side, which our players must not be doing with the same effort other teams do.

The other problems are

- A manager who's abandoned any principle of keeping possession and/or can't coach a team to keep the ball. The more of the ball you have, the less your opponent has of the ball. The less of the ball your opponent has, the less shots they'll be able to accumulate. Our transition-heavy style encourages us to give the ball away every few seconds.

- Players who are fundamentally unsuited to retaining possession of a football, including some of our so called "best" players.

- Players who are physically slow, weak or past their prime who can't cover ground or are easily bypassed when opposition run at us, or run through us.

- Flawed pressing system where we press high but leave the opposition full backs unmarked for them to chip it over to the full back to beat our press and then leave us exposed.

- Defence that doesn't play a high line to complement our high press.

- ETH encouraging all our midfielders to go wandering up the field and leave no protection for the defence.
 
Like many posters said we have a disjointed side. Where our players with the most potential in their favoured system (read Rashford+counterattacking) are not compatible with our squad-average best style of play, or even the manager preferred way of playing. I think it is (or hopefully has been) very hard for the manager to get support for building a team based on a wholesome tactical idea.

Cold water in the veins is that even though we are now hopefully in the process of implementing a system where we´re able to facilitate a team strategy that works better, it will take quite some time to implement. While i doubt ETH is the manager to take us back to the top, i think he plays an important role in being the janitor who cleans out the hard-to-get spots that are damaging our club.

I wouldn´t be surprised to see ETH keeping his job this summer, Rashford getting sold (among several other culturally/strategically unfit players).Then, come fall, if ETH keeps struggling to get results, lose his job before christmas. But i still think his job will have been important. Dealing with Sancho, CR, Greenwood, Rashford++ will be an important step in rebuilding our culture at this club. Its important to do this sternly, so we don´t leave any lingering personell problem just for it to reemerge at a later time. Player power has to end. The night is always darkest before the dawn, and it will get darker still.
 
Alot of blaming player quality, but we've better players than Bournemouth and they played us off the park at home. It's the coaching. A mid quality utd team that's coached into a system of play doesn't get beat 3 0 at to Bournemouth. Eth was hired and within 2games he binned his whole supposed football plan...and he doesn't seem to have another one or one suited to English football. When a team is struggling, just set up to be solid and try grind out a win. Big Sam,ginger sean and even Jose can do it.. erik looks like he can't even find the bus let alone park it.
 
The problem is that the manager has players who won't or can't perform to his requirements, so the manager has no choice but to wing it going into every match.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Physical and technical profiles. Who in our squad has the right ones? I’d argue:

Physical
Højlund
Shaw (when fit)

Technical
Martinez
Mainoo (physical potential too)
Mount
Shaw (when fit)
Onana

Would anybody argue strongly in favour of any others?
Click to expand...

I will maybe add Amad in the technical list except that it is spot on. Garnacho is still far away to be included in technical list.
 
Does any have running stats of the Fa cup win vs Liverpool and the draw at Brentford? Because when I see those two performances it epitomises how crap we are. We aren’t a great team, we know that. However against Liverpool we played with an intensity and potency that we have rarely seen whereas against Brentford it was the usuals insipid, passenger peformance we’ve gotten used to. And as a fan, it’s hard to underhand what drives that drop off. Forget being a top side, we just struggle to be decent.
 
Why are we here?
Incompetent board hired a manager with no pedigree in squad building and gave him ultimate say on transfers He then proceeded to buy former players for inflated fees and didn't retool the squad to the necessarily level quickly enough. The rebuild needs to be a multi year process like LVG was doing (except without the boring ass football)

Maguire, Evans, Shaw, Sancho, Antony, Martial, Rashford, Mount are all players that don't fit a rebuilding profile (clearly injury prone, inconsistent). Yet they command 50% of our wage budget.

What's wrong this season?
1. Injuries. Our best players have not played together enough. We have the likes of Maguire, Evans as our CBs, a clearly aging and injured Casemiro, and no LBs.

2. ETH hasn't been able to maintain his original desired playstyle, nor has he implemented a stable Plan B playstyle.

What should we do?
Do an indepth analysis and rebuild of the squad with a 3-4 year horizon. The goal is to get young athletic/technical players (think Mainoo, Garnacho) and develop them with a manager who has demonstrated ability to implement attacking football and develop youth.

GK - Onana okay, backup okay
RB - Dalot, AVB keep (solid)
CB - Martinez, Lindelof okay (replace Maguire/Evans with 2 players priority #1, do not renew Varane)
LB - Shaw okay (replace in 2 yrs), Malacia sell (knee injury, priority #1 replace)
DM - Casemiro (priority #2 replace soon)
CM - Mainoo (priority #3 add backup)
AM - Bruno okay, Mount (sell for funds in 2 yrs and replace, unecessary with Bruno)
LW - Rashford, (priority #2 add athletic depth option)
RW - Antony (replace in 2 yrs, priority #3 add if Mason not retained), Diallo (give time to heal), Garnacho okay
ST - Hojlund okay (add depth, priority #1), sell Martial.

We need to add 3 defenders and 1 striker ASAP, and then 1 DM and winger in next year, and then another winger, CM, LB in the year after that.
 
Current style of play demands better pressure from players around the ball.

The team looks disjointed as soon as they lose the ball. Rashford and Garnacho are so bad in pressing from goal kicks, one of them often leaves an opposition full back open only for our full back or CM to not pressure.

We really need to change how we approach games from wings for this system to work. Every game we’re slightly off with uncoordinated presses, it is very easy to play through. The blame lies on the coaching staff, and the players who feel they’re too good to put in a shift in an important game.
 
We have a good press. We are one of the best in the league. We have a decent defence. We haven't conceded much more than teams around us and considering we face the most shots and they are all injured all the time that's a miracle.
The problem is the gap between the attack and midfield. It's happened since game 1 against Wolves and continued all season so its planned by ETH. The midfield 3 have to cover the big space between attack and defence. Lose the ball and they pass through the midfield easily and are running on our defence. To make things worse I think Bruno is the most dribbled past player in the league and Case is not far behind. Bruno is a hard worker but defending is not his thing especially this kind of unstructured crazy defending. Plus Case is either out of form or his legs are gone. Then on top Eriksen was our link between the defence and attack. Thats gone this year. That has had a major impact on our attack.

This is ETH transition football. In summary. No control. Its back and forth basketball football. Hoping even though we concede a sht load of shots they will miss most if them and hoping for a moment of brilliance drom our attackers. Yes it's been impacted by injuries and form but the reason why teams do this to us is because we are allowing them to do it. Brentford won 2 in 18 games or something and had all thier back 4 missing. It's not impossible to stop them playing like Real Madrid against us. They had 80 plus touches in our box. Why? Injuries? Form? No. It was how we set up.

Eth was asked is he concerned about the shots we are conceding and he said No. He was asked about the huge gap in midfield and he said no. He says it's not an issue. That's because it's his plan. It kind of works in a sense our press is good and we are one of the most direct at getting the ball from defence to attack. Maybe he thinks this kind of football can work. Like get more legs in midfield and it will click and he will bring forth a new era of football. But the rest of the world are baffled by what he is trying to do.
 
Last edited:
The problems are so widespread it is hard to tell what the biggest issue is.
I mean with all the money we paid for players and taking into account our actual wage bill the quality of our squad is hilariously bad.
Among our CBs we got Maguire, Lindelöf and Evans. None of them would be considered by a real top club.
We don’t have a consistently fit LB.
Our midfield is an unbalanced mess and our biggest hope is an 18 yrs old who looks good but has of course not done anything of notice yet.
Our best winger is an absolutely inconsistent 19 yrs old. The winger with the biggest potential to play for a top side is playing PlayStation in Germany.
Our 2 „best players“ earn ridiculous money but rarely show why this is the case.
Of course our manager plays them nearly every minute because if we played awful without them everyone would be mentioning their absence.
And despite being awful at playing football across the pitch we spent our money on a goalkeeper and a classic number 9.
Insanity.
 
Playing with a functioning midfield could be a step in the right direction.
 
Squad quality is about 6th or 7th in league and the manager is no better either so I don't see how anyone is expecting anything better than this. A decade of mismanagement of the club by the people in charge has brought us here and until we find some good enough people to lead the club nothing will improve. The manager and squad quality are the symptoms but the real problem has always been higher up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.