What is Dan James good at?

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
He’s 22, nearly 23. He’s older than Mbappe, Sancho, Alexander-Arnold & Pulisic. We can’t use the “he’s young” excuse for a player who lacks basic fundamentals for a professional player. Being fast & working hard is the kind of thing you would praise a non league player for.

It’s also a myth that he “tailed off towards the end” he has been diabolical since about October. That’s 3 quarters of the season.
Click to expand...

You’ve just compared him to four of the best young players in the world for goodness sake.

Players develop at different paces to each other, and he’s played very few professional games.

With all the deadwood we are getting rid of, we need some squad players.

He’s played more games that anyone would have expected due to the poor standard of players outside the first 11. That’s not his fault.

We can’t just go and spend £30-40m on a load of squad players, players like James have a place in the squad and are valuable.

He doesn’t have a great deal of experience, and will only get better.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
He’s 22, nearly 23. He’s older than Mbappe, Sancho, Alexander-Arnold & Pulisic. We can’t use the “he’s young” excuse for a player who lacks basic fundamentals for a professional player. Being fast & working hard is the kind of thing you would praise a non league player for.

It’s also a myth that he “tailed off towards the end” he has been diabolical since about October. That’s 3 quarters of the season.
Click to expand...

This is wherein lies the problem. Comparing Dan James to generational talents like mbappe or sancho.

Dan is probably never going to get to those levels. But it doesn't mean he won't develop into a fantastic player by the time he is 25+ years of age.

Too much fifa and football manager for you lot. If we had given up on every player at age 21-22 then the likes of Fletcher, Scholes, Beckham etc. would not have made it.
 
DevilRed said:
This is wherein lies the problem. Comparing Dan James to generational talents like mbappe or sancho.

Dan is probably never going to get to those levels. But it doesn't mean he won't develop into a fantastic player by the time he is 25+ years of age.

Too much fifa and football manager for you lot. If we had given up on every player at age 21-22 then the likes of Fletcher, Scholes, Beckham etc. would not have made it.
Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s exactly true. Beckham’s debut was at 19 and he was definite first choice at 21. Fletch would have been the youngest player in United history if it wasn’t for FA rules. Scholes debuted at 19 and at 20 in his first season scored 14 goals.

I’m not saying there isn’t players that have improved later in their career, but those examples are a bit of lazy example.

The main issue is Dan doesn’t seem to have many upsides, apart from his pace. His technique is average, IQ on the ball is bad, strength is non existent. It’s not like he can even beat a man with the ball at his feet, he has to be running onto the ball.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
You’ve just compared him to four of the best young players in the world for goodness sake.

Players develop at different paces to each other, and he’s played very few professional games.

With all the deadwood we are getting rid of, we need some squad players.

He’s played more games that anyone would have expected due to the poor standard of players outside the first 11. That’s not his fault.

We can’t just go and spend £30-40m on a load of squad players, players like James have a place in the squad and are valuable.

He doesn’t have a great deal of experience, and will only get better.
Click to expand...
Yes, but which players developed late that didn't have great technical ability and or specialize in a certain part of football (Vardy = goal scoring, Kante = defending).

James isn't really good at dribbling like Zaha, Traore, or Saint Maximm. He's not technically gifted like Payet, Mahrez, Benrahma, etc... He's more similar to someone like Bale or Depay, except showed way less at the same age. Depay obviously had great teenage seasons in Eredivisie, and Bale won player of the year at 21 (although it should have been Nani).

I view James as completely different from say Gomes. Who maybe at 23 can turn into a good player because he has all the ingredients in terms of technical ability and football brain.

This is more of a post or question to the thread. Which players with James technical ability and without specialty, became good players later in their career? I'm sure there are some examples. It's hard to think of any. Most are technical players.
 
In Rainbows said:
Yes, but which players developed late that didn't have great technical ability and or specialize in a certain part of football (Vardy = goal scoring, Kante = defending).

James isn't really good at dribbling like Zaha, Traore, or Saint Maximm. He's not technically gifted like Payet, Mahrez, Benrahma, etc... He's more similar to someone like Bale or Depay, except showed way less at the same age. Depay obviously had great teenage seasons in Eredivisie, and Bale won player of the year at 21 (although it should have been Nani).

I view James as completely different from say Gomes. Who maybe at 23 can turn into a good player because he has all the ingredients in terms of technical ability and football brain.

This is more of a post or question to the thread. Which players with James technical ability and without specialty, became good players later in their career? I'm sure there are some examples. It's hard to think of any. Most are technical players.
Click to expand...

Memphis is definetly not in there with them as he is technically gifted, few have a truer strike than him and he does have touches to beat a man.
 
Clermontois said:
Memphis is definetly not in there with them as he is technically gifted, few have a truer strike than him and he does have touches to beat a man.
Click to expand...
He's not incredibly technically gifted even if he does use tricks from time to time. He is more than James for sure. There's a clear difference between Depay and Bale from James if I had to group them. I want to stress that they're clearly superior.
 
DevilRed said:
He runs fast and works hard. Not sure why people expect a 21 yr old to be the finished article. Had a strong start to the season but tailed off toward the end. Had to learn a new position too.

We would have sold off Ronaldo, martial, fletcher and a whole bunch of others based on the same criticism Dan James gets.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, which qualities did you see in him which made you compare him to the likes of Fletcher, Martial, never mind Ronaldo?
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
Out of curiosity, which qualities did you see in him which made you compare him to the likes of Fletcher, Martial, never mind Ronaldo?
Click to expand...

Whoosh. Completely and utterly missing the point im trying to make. Let me try to explain slowly to you.

Fletcher, Martial and Ronaldo have all gone through heavy criticism early in their careers.

To an even greater extent in the media and in public, than what Dan James has gone through (which to be honest is mainly concentrated in this forum).

We would have sold the lot of them had the fans and media had their way.
 
DevilRed said:
Whoosh. Completely and utterly missing the point im trying to make. Let me try to explain slowly to you.

Fletcher, Martial and Ronaldo have all gone through heavy criticism early in their careers.

To an even greater extent in the media and in public, than what Dan James has gone through (which to be honest is mainly concentrated in this forum).

We would have sold the lot of them had the fans and media had their way.
Click to expand...
I got your point in your last post. What I am asking you is what redeeming qualities do you see in Dan James that makes you think that we should have patience and stick by him like we did with the likes of Ronaldo, Martial etc. Pre 2006 Ronaldo was a prodigal talent with some questionable decision making and consistency issues, as was Martial to some extent. Heck, even the likes of Nani, Fletcher showed enough qualities for the manager and fans to stick by them. My question to you is what qualities do you see in James, that makes you want to stick by him till he reaches his potential(untapped)?

I will make it even easier for you, in saying what I see in him. All I see is a less than average winger with pace to burn and hard working, but with questionable positioning, less than average technical skills, no vision, average passing skills, poor finishing ability and decision making, huge confidence issues in short simply one dimensional, fit for counter attacking only and less than your average Pl winger and at 22, not much scope to grow technically and ability wise. Your turn.
 
He is absolutely brilliant getting into positions where it seems a good chance, or an assist is inevitable, at least 2-3 times a game.
 
AshRK said:
Did we seriously need another James bashing thread?
Click to expand...

Right? TheCaf really is a special place full of "opinions". My guess is most of these people had already made their mind up about him when they first heard about the transfer and were probably really quiet when he started off so well. But then as soon as he isn't playing well, it's like they're happy because they're "right". Bottom line is he's a young player in his first year with arguably the biggest club in the world. Give the kid some time. He's had some good moments in his first year and he's had some bad. Let him get a couple seasons under his belt and let's see what happens. If it turns out he's not good enough, then so be it. Nobody gets it right all the time, but he is certainly worth the risk...
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
You’ve just compared him to four of the best young players in the world for goodness sake.

Players develop at different paces to each other, and he’s played very few professional games.

With all the deadwood we are getting rid of, we need some squad players.

He’s played more games that anyone would have expected due to the poor standard of players outside the first 11. That’s not his fault.

We can’t just go and spend £30-40m on a load of squad players, players like James have a place in the squad and are valuable.

He doesn’t have a great deal of experience, and will only get better.[\b]
Click to expand...


Exactly what the situation is, he hasn't played much professional level football at all..

He played 39 first team games for Swansea and 50 PL 2 games over 18 months and got nabbed for Man Utd first team. Before that he was with Shrewsbury.

Neither are anywhere near the standard of Man Utd and a spell in the championship would be good for him probably.
 
He probably always won the 100 meter sprint at his school sports day. Might have been wise of him to stick to that.
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
I got your point in your last post. What I am asking you is what redeeming qualities do you see in Dan James that makes you think that we should have patience and stick by him like we did with the likes of Ronaldo, Martial etc. Pre 2006 Ronaldo was a prodigal talent with some questionable decision making and consistency issues, as was Martial to some extent. Heck, even the likes of Nani, Fletcher showed enough qualities for the manager and fans to stick by them. My question to you is what qualities do you see in James, that makes you want to stick by him till he reaches his potential(untapped)?

I will make it even easier for you, in saying what I see in him. All I see is a less than average winger with pace to burn and hard working, but with questionable positioning, less than average technical skills, no vision, average passing skills, poor finishing ability and decision making, huge confidence issues in short simply one dimensional, fit for counter attacking only and less than your average Pl winger and at 22, not much scope to grow technically and ability wise. Your turn.
Click to expand...

I think hindsight is 20/20 and there is alot of revisionist history going on. Ronaldo was hardly a world beater between the ages of 18-21. In fact, we copped alot of shite from opposing fans who called him a one trick pony with no end product. Jose antonio reyes and arjen robben were considered far better players at the same stage in their careers. Fast forward to 2020 and we're now talking about one of the best players of all time.

Whilst it would be unrealistic to compare James with Ronaldo, I believe Fletcher would be a prime example of a "late bloomer". I'm not sure if you were around at that time to watch him, but for the first 3-4 years when he broke into the team, he was absolutely slaughtered for his performances. Some of them were pretty bad. There was a running joke that he was Fergie's son, hence why he was still in and around the team. This was when EVERY year we would cry for the club to sign a world class central midfielder, which would almost never happen. Have a look at this thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/fergies-son-the-darren-fletcher-divide.264692/

It wasn't until Fletch turned 26-27 years of age before things started clicking. At one point he became our best midfielder and absolutely bossed the show in high stakes champions league match against the gooners. Sadly, a debilitating illness cut short his career right when it was hitting its prime.

I'm not saying Dan James is going to reach those heights. Nobody knows that. I'm saying people in this generation seem to be even MORE in a rush to toss aside our young players the minute they don't perform up to unrealistic standards. Lets get behind our players and not discard them due to a few bad matches in their debut season.

I would also like to add that "an average winger that is hard working" is actually how most described Park Ji Sung when he first came to the club. Another player who was roundly criticised for not producing enough, but eventually through hard work and match time, was made indispensible to the TEAM because he played a role where his workrate and effort molded perfectly with Ronaldo and Rooney. So I see that in Dan James. Someone who will inevitably grow and improve and play an important part in our team winning trophies.

Call me an optimist.
 
DevilRed said:
I think hindsight is 20/20 and there is alot of revisionist history going on. Ronaldo was hardly a world beater between the ages of 18-21. In fact, we copped alot of shite from opposing fans who called him a one trick pony with no end product. Jose antonio reyes and arjen robben were considered far better players at the same stage in their careers. Fast forward to 2020 and we're now talking about one of the best players of all time.

Whilst it would be unrealistic to compare James with Ronaldo, I believe Fletcher would be a prime example of a "late bloomer". I'm not sure if you were around at that time to watch him, but for the first 3-4 years when he broke into the team, he was absolutely slaughtered for his performances. Some of them were pretty bad. There was a running joke that he was Fergie's son, hence why he was still in and around the team. This was when EVERY year we would cry for the club to sign a world class central midfielder, which would almost never happen. Have a look at this thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/fergies-son-the-darren-fletcher-divide.264692/

It wasn't until Fletch turned 26-27 years of age before things started clicking. At one point he became our best midfielder and absolutely bossed the show in high stakes champions league match against the gooners. Sadly, a debilitating illness cut short his career right when it was hitting its prime.

I'm not saying Dan James is going to reach those heights. Nobody knows that. I'm saying people in this generation seem to be even MORE in a rush to toss aside our young players the minute they don't perform up to unrealistic standards. Lets get behind our players and not discard them due to a few bad matches in their debut season.

I would also like to add that "an average winger that is hard working" is actually how most described Park Ji Sung when he first came to the club. Another player who was roundly criticised for not producing enough, but eventually through hard work and match time, was made indispensible to the TEAM because he played a role where his workrate and effort molded perfectly with Ronaldo and Rooney. So I see that in Dan James. Someone who will inevitably grow and improve and play an important part in our team winning trophies.

Call me an optimist.
Click to expand...
A post this long, and you still have failed to mention the qualities you have seen in Dan James that would make you want United to persist with him. Work rate alone is hardly a criteria for a Manchester United player even if he is a backup player. You compare him to Park Ji Sung, but he was miles ahead of James in terms of technique and basic skills. Other than the first month bounce, he has been consistently poor for us, breaking down attacking moves and failed at the very basics.

Now, I respect your optimism although I don't share it with you. For me, there are other players i would like to be moved on before him and at 22, a loan could be a good move for him.But if we are to be competing next season for the title, I absolutely would not want him to be the 5th forward for us, considering we get Sancho and Lingard goes. I would take the likes of Cantwell, Buendia, Barnes, McNeil, Ismailla Sarr, Brooks, Pedro Neto even Jonny before Dan James as I think they are all currently better and will have a better career than him(considering Grealish, Traore, St. Maximin are too costly for us now).
 
Last edited:
The people suggesting we change him into a full back.

Genuine :lol:
 
RedTiger said:
I've seen your picture
Your name in lights above it
This is your big debut
It's like a dream come true
And when you smile for the camera
I know they'll love your right
Leg
Click to expand...
Love a bit of Steely Dan:drool:
 
The reason this guy gets so much stick around here is because he was massively overplayed this season. He is not supposed to be a starting player for United, he is not supposed to win us points every week like he did at the beginning of the season. The guy is the embodiment of a squad player. We have had zero options on the right wing before Mason's emergence and we had zero options on the left wing when one of Martial or Rashford were injured. So as a result he played pretty much non stop for Manchester United after having about one full season in the Championship, can't you see that the criticism for him is not justified what so ever? If anything he should be praised that he preformed during august-september when no one else did instead of getting ridiculed because some people bought into his hype way to much.
Very useful player against tired defences and lower level opposition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 711
Inigo Montoya said:
He’s a terrible rb
Click to expand...

Yeah I can't see him doing it. Unless it's a couple of divisions lower. And even then maybe not.

He's a winger. If it's not for us, it can be another premier team. No real drama.
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
A post this long, and you still have failed to mention the qualities you have seen in Dan James that would make you want United to persist with him. Work rate alone is hardly a criteria for a Manchester United player even if he is a backup player. You compare him to Park Ji Sung, but he was miles ahead of James in terms of technique and basic skills. Other than the first month bounce, he has been consistently poor for us, breaking down attacking moves and failed at the very basics.

Now, I respect your optimism although I don't share it with you. For me, there are other players i would like to be moved on before him and at 22, a loan could be a good move for him.But if we are to be competing next season for the title, I absolutely would not want him to be the 5th forward for us, considering we get Sancho and Lingard goes. I would take the likes of Cantwell, Buendia, Barnes, McNeil, Ismailla Sarr, Brooks, Pedro Neto even Jonny before Dan James as I think they are all currently better and will have a better career than him(considering Grealish, Traore, St. Maximin are too costly for us now).
Click to expand...

It isn't about comparing the qualities of these players. When will you get it? You still don't do you? Its about people writing off a young 22 year old in his debut season.

Park Ji Sung is miles ahead of James in terms of technique and basic skills? At the same age?! Dearie me. You obviously haven't watched him play in the J league to make that observation :lol:

Cantwell?! Buendia?! :lol:

feckin ell lad. One minute you're expecting James to replicate Ronaldo and Martial. The next you bring up two players who got relegated and don't even play the same position as James :lol:

You've got alot to learn about football. Take notes ;)
 
DevilRed said:
It isn't about comparing the qualities of these players. When will you get it? You still don't do you? Its about people writing off a young 22 year old in his debut season.

Park Ji Sung is miles ahead of James in terms of technique and basic skills? At the same age?! Dearie me. You obviously haven't watched him play in the J league to make that observation :lol:

Cantwell?! Buendia?! :lol:

feckin ell lad. One minute you're expecting James to replicate Ronaldo and Martial. The next you bring up two players who got relegated and don't even play the same position as James :lol:

You've got alot to learn about football. Take notes ;)
Click to expand...
You are the one who brought up Ronaldo and Martial who are, by the way, way, way out of your precious Dan's ability. Also, it's cute how you think a player's technique can be developed significantly at Daniel's age. Before trying to teach me about Football, I would suggest you to brush up your own knowledge, seeing that you don't even know the position James plays at, as I compared him to fellow wingers in the league. I hope you get how much faith I have in Daniel's ability when I say that I would take Buendia and Todd Cantwell ahead of him.
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
You are the one who brought up Ronaldo and Martial who are, by the way, way, way out of your precious Dan's ability. Also, it's cute how you think a player's technique can be developed significantly at Daniel's age. Before trying to teach me about Football, I would suggest you to brush up your own knowledge, seeing that you don't even know the position James plays at, as I compared him to fellow wingers in the league. I hope you get how much faith I have in Daniel's ability when I say that I would take Buendia and Todd Cantwell ahead of him.
Click to expand...


Dearie me. Cantwell and buendia. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Good thing you don't post much.
 
DevilRed said:
Dearie me. Cantwell and buendia. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Good thing you don't post much.
Click to expand...
As a lower price option if we aren't making a huge signing then yes, Cantwell,Buendia or even Brooks are far better than James. I've no idea why you find so much hilarity in that.

Childish
 
He is really fast.
He is making good runs, right timing, rarely in offside which is very important for player with pace.
His positioning when attacking on counters is very good.
His defensive awareness, and overall defensive game is very good for a winger.
He is hard working and brave, not hiding from duel, not avoiding tackles.
One of the important things is that he is making lot of recoveries once he or someone loses the ball in final third.
He is capable to produce good final ball on counter. He made a couple of assists with those balls, and a few of them he missed because of the bad finishing (like R
He is fouled a lot, very often on the edge of the box in very dangerous positions. He also did not get a lot of fouls when he deserved ones, but hopefully it wont happen.
His first touch is OK. His close control of the ball in full speed is also pretty good, he can change direction and he can dribble in the full speed.
I think this compilation is pretty good, but as you will notice almost all of it is from the first part of the season.

He has weaknesses as well.
His passing is very bad in positional play. He can cross or give good long balls while running, but in positional play his passing is poor and weak.
He can't do much with the ball when standing, and it shows when rivals playing deep.
He is pretty bad in tight spaces.
His decision making is not good.
His shooting is without power, he can improve this a lot.
His finishing is not great.
All of this can be improved with right coaches.

From my point of view, his confidence at the moment is a real issue and probably a reason for big drop in form. I am sure, Ole and coaches will try to fix things and to improve him. He started well, he was our player of the month in September I think, so obviously not that bad. But later he lost some of the form and confidence, probably fatigue issues as well, while also rivals knowing what he can do and what he can't do. With players around him now, with midfield with Bruno and Pogba in last 30 minutes he can bang teams easily if he fix a few things.

For me he is excellent signing with pretty good season comparing to what I've been expecting from Championship player who just started his career.
 
Just come here to say that Dan James is good at football, that's why he is a pro player.

Close thread.
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
Great response btw and keep laughing buddy, shows your superior 'football knowledge'.
Click to expand...
The ironic thing is the response makes no sense, like he’s trying to brush it off like it’s absolutely absurd to the point of mockery, yet Cantwell & Buendia are both quite clearly more talented than James.
 
I don't see James as a full-back, maybe in the later stages of his career. However, I do see him as a wing-back. So I can see the use of him, can play on both flanks as well. James can be a useful squad player, and yes, I agree, he hasn't looked good and I don't think he will ever be good enough to start.. but I can see the use of him. He must improve though, but let's wait and see. I'll give him next season to prove himself.
 
Last edited:
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
The ironic thing is the response makes no sense, like he’s trying to brush it off like it’s absolutely absurd to the point of mockery, yet Cantwell & Buendia are both quite clearly more talented than James.
Click to expand...
I know, right. He thinks that laughing it off somehow makes the opinion unrealistic and made up. You can't argue with a fool, so I think it's best to leave him to his own devices.
 
Played one year in the Championship, lost his dad before signing for United, has 6 assists in the PL (more than Grealish, Pepe, Pulisic to name a few) and has tailed off over the end of the season. I genuinely don't understand why he's being written off?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.